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Offsides question Empty Offsides question

Post by FunkyColdMedina on 21/09/12, 10:06 am

AR has hand up for an offsides call. No call is made yet. The forwards backoff and let defenders take ball. Defender kicks ball out of bounds. Ref Calls offsides...free kick for defending team. Is that the right call?
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Post by coachr on 21/09/12, 10:29 am

FunkyColdMedina wrote:AR has hand up for an offsides call. No call is made yet. The forwards backoff and let defenders take ball. Defender kicks ball out of bounds. Ref Calls offsides...free kick for defending team. Is that the right call?
By the rule book NO.
He probably needs to go to soccer ref school instead of American football ref school.
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Post by Slakemoth on 21/09/12, 10:43 am

my guess is the center ref didn't see the initial flag by the AR.... the play you described finished, and then the center noticed the AR's flag up and figured "I must have missed seeing his flag when he called it, so I'll now go with his call and award the offside call".
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Post by Its Me on 21/09/12, 10:51 am

I would say it's an offside call. If the player in the offside position influenced the play of the defender by forcing him to react or "interfering with an opponent" by kicking the ball out of bounds or kicking the ball to another attacking player then there is no advantage and offside should be called. I will delay my call to see if there is an advantage. If the ball is played and they can advance I'll wave the AR's Flag down. If it's played out of bounds I'll call the Offside.

A lot of parents think offside is a simple call however give the referees the benefit that they know what they're doing. Yes, they may get a call wrong here and there but that's life.

Here is the rule they have to consider within the second they see the play:

11.4 INTERFERING WITH AN OPPONENT
"Interfering with an opponent" means preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the
ball by clearly obstructing the opponent's line of vision or movements or making a gesture or movement
which, in the opinion of the referee, deceives or distracts an opponent
. Interference can also include
active physical or verbal distraction of the goalkeeper by an opponent as well as blocking the view of
the goalkeeper.
A player who is in an offside position when the ball is played toward him by a teammate and who, in
the opinion of the referee, attracts the attention of an opponent, drawing that opponent into pursuit, is
guilty of interfering with an opponent.
Referees are reminded that the reference to “playing or touching the ball” (see Advice 11.5 below) does
not mean that an offside infringement cannot be called until an attacker in an offside position actually
touches the ball. Please note: Here and elsewhere in the guidance for offside, "play," "touch," and
"make contact with" are used interchangeably (as they are in the Laws of the Game and its
Instructions). However, these terms are interchangeable only for the attackers. For the defenders,
merely touching the ball is not sufficient in the context of an offside decision — they must actually play
(possess and control) the ball, meaning that for them there is indeed a meaningful distinction between
"touch" and "play."
“Touching the ball” is not a requirement for calling an offside infringement if the attacker is interfering
with an opponent by making a movement or gesture which, in the opinion of the referee, deceives or
distracts that opponent.
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Post by Coach&Ref on 22/09/12, 03:07 am

FunkyColdMedina wrote:AR has hand up for an offsides call. No call is made yet. The forwards backoff and let defenders take ball. Defender kicks ball out of bounds. Ref Calls offsides...free kick for defending team. Is that the right call?

I don't quite understand the scenario as you describe it, but if the ball was kicked out of bounds and play wasn't restarted, then the CR can then bring the ball back for the raised AR flag that he might not have noticed.

Also, a CR can override an AR's flag any time he pleases. This is why it is important to have good ARs. An example of this may be a forward who is in an offside position just inside the defending team's third or even a bit further up, but the ball is kicked quite hard and it is pretty obvious that the forward isn't going to get there. The flag will most likely go up, but if the CR clearly sees that the keeper is picking it up, he might just let the offside call go, since it is going to the other team anyway and there is really no advantage to calling it.

All refs are taught to consider the mindset of the CR when being an AR. A crew that works together for awhile gets to know the mindset of each other. An example of this is that some CRs play advantage quite a bit and have become very good at it. They trust their ARs to call penalties in front of them, however, the AR should be in tune with the CR to know that he likes to play advantage quite a bit and won't raise his flag unless he is certain the CR would see the foul the same way. You see this with good crews. It's hard when ARs and the CR are not on the same page even though they BOTH may be RIGHT.

Understand?

I enjoy working with a crew of guys I know (their mindset), so if I am either Centering or the AR for them, I know what they want.

Waving down an AR too often doesn't really look good, because of the disconnect.

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Kids are THINKING players on the pitch, not video game characters to be moved around with a joystick by coaches.
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Post by coachr on 22/09/12, 10:18 am

Its Me wrote:I would say it's an offside call. If the player in the offside position influenced the play of the defender by forcing him to react or "interfering with an opponent" by kicking the ball out of bounds or kicking the ball to another attacking player then there is no advantage and offside should be called. I will delay my call to see if there is an advantage. If the ball is played and they can advance I'll wave the AR's Flag down. If it's played out of bounds I'll call the Offside.

A lot of parents think offside is a simple call however give the referees the benefit that they know what they're doing. Yes, they may get a call wrong here and there but that's life.

Here is the rule they have to consider within the second they see the play:

11.4 INTERFERING WITH AN OPPONENT
"Interfering with an opponent" means preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the
ball by clearly obstructing the opponent's line of vision or movements or making a gesture or movement
which, in the opinion of the referee, deceives or distracts an opponent
. Interference can also include
active physical or verbal distraction of the goalkeeper by an opponent as well as blocking the view of
the goalkeeper.
A player who is in an offside position when the ball is played toward him by a teammate and who, in
the opinion of the referee, attracts the attention of an opponent, drawing that opponent into pursuit, is
guilty of interfering with an opponent.
Referees are reminded that the reference to “playing or touching the ball” (see Advice 11.5 below) does
not mean that an offside infringement cannot be called until an attacker in an offside position actually
touches the ball. Please note: Here and elsewhere in the guidance for offside, "play," "touch," and
"make contact with" are used interchangeably (as they are in the Laws of the Game and its
Instructions). However, these terms are interchangeable only for the attackers. For the defenders,
merely touching the ball is not sufficient in the context of an offside decision — they must actually play
(possess and control) the ball, meaning that for them there is indeed a meaningful distinction between
"touch" and "play."
“Touching the ball” is not a requirement for calling an offside infringement if the attacker is interfering
with an opponent by making a movement or gesture which, in the opinion of the referee, deceives or
distracts that opponent.
Wrong wrong wrong. The question specifically asks about "offsides". Nowhere does it say offsides in the rule. Offsides is a dad gum American football term!
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