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Aces tournment crazy game another question for the refs

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Aces tournment crazy game another question for the refs Empty Aces tournment crazy game another question for the refs

Post by GGoat on 11/11/12, 05:09 pm

The game was a 1 1 tie there was a break away with a rundown between the defender and the foward the foward extended her arm and put the defender down hard the ref said play on and the keeper came out and the foward kicked the ball out. The defenders coach told the ref that he needs to protect the players and the ref threw him out of the game. Afew minutes later there was another break away with the same defender she got in front of the foward and the foward ran over her and she got hurt the ref said play on and the keeper came up and caught the ball. The defender was still down and the ref stopped play. She got up and the ref gave her a yellow card after talking with the Ar on the other side of the field not the Ar closest to the play. He then had the keeper kick the ball. Then after she punted it he blew his whistle and set up a penelty kick outside the box. The assistant coach said you didnt call any pentlty during the play and had made the motion to play on and had said play on you cant change the call now. Then he kicked out the other coach and started setting up for a free kick. It was very confusing and the defenders went up to the ball like they do during a free kick. The girl that got the yellow card was the captain and the ref told her that it wasnt fair to stand close to the ball like that. The player told him I dont know what to do you kicked out both of our coaches. He gave her a yellow and kicked her out of the game never walked off 10 or anything. The keeper caught the ball punted it and they took it down and scored for a 2-1 lead So it kind of back fired on him. We found out after the game that the ref had 3 games today and coached 2 why are they allowing refs to ref in tournments that they have teams in. One of the girls said that the ref said that saying he needs to protect the girls is like being punched in the face. Did the refs make the right call and should any of the coaches been kicked out and should the player been kicked out.

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Post by DoubleDDRedux on 11/11/12, 05:37 pm

I think you are committing libel.
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Post by DoubleDDRedux on 11/11/12, 05:39 pm

Just kidding. I say throw all the swine out! Coaches! Players! Insolent Parents! Tar and feather the Refs!
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Post by Hook It on 11/11/12, 11:41 pm

GGoat wrote:The game was a 1 1 tie there was a break away with a rundown between the defender and the foward the foward extended her arm and put the defender down hard the ref said play on and the keeper came out and the foward kicked the ball out. The defenders coach told the ref that he needs to protect the players and the ref threw him out of the game. Afew minutes later there was another break away with the same defender she got in front of the foward and the foward ran over her and she got hurt the ref said play on and the keeper came up and caught the ball. The defender was still down and the ref stopped play. She got up and the ref gave her a yellow card after talking with the Ar on the other side of the field not the Ar closest to the play. He then had the keeper kick the ball. Then after she punted it he blew his whistle and set up a penelty kick outside the box. The assistant coach said you didnt call any pentlty during the play and had made the motion to play on and had said play on you cant change the call now. Then he kicked out the other coach and started setting up for a free kick. It was very confusing and the defenders went up to the ball like they do during a free kick. The girl that got the yellow card was the captain and the ref told her that it wasnt fair to stand close to the ball like that. The player told him I dont know what to do you kicked out both of our coaches. He gave her a yellow and kicked her out of the game never walked off 10 or anything. The keeper caught the ball punted it and they took it down and scored for a 2-1 lead So it kind of back fired on him. We found out after the game that the ref had 3 games today and coached 2 why are they allowing refs to ref in tournments that they have teams in. One of the girls said that the ref said that saying he needs to protect the girls is like being punched in the face. Did the refs make the right call and should any of the coaches been kicked out and should the player been kicked out.
Was the ref an ACES coach? What age group was this?

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Post by GGoat on 12/11/12, 01:43 am

I don't know who he coached for that was what was said after the game. It was making a excuse for why he snapped that he had ref 3 games today and coached 2. It was u. 12.The crazy thing was that the game really didn't matter at this point1 team had 0 points in the tournament and the other had to have Max points 3 and a shut out to advance and the score was 1 to 1 so neither team could advance. Most of the people there where concerned that the players could get hurt in a meaningless game

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Post by GGoat on 12/11/12, 01:47 am


Man I wish DD but this really happened just crazy. Many of the parents where saying if one more kid goes down hard like that with no coaches they where going to just go get there kid and leave. Because the game really didn't mean anything

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Post by Its Me on 12/11/12, 08:39 am

Wow! Thats a lot in one game.

Some of this I have no idea about because I would have to be there or explanation would have be more detailed. It's kinda of hard to believe that he would throw the coach out after "one" statement. It could have been that he was hammering the ref all game or a couple of times during the game and just had enough.

The yellow to the defender after the second foul was discussed. The AR and center felt that it was a yellow. So, I would assume they both saw something that the parents missed.

The penalty outside the box. Who knows but maybe the keeper stepped outside the box during the punt which would be direct kick to the opposing team.

The defender walking up to the ball. Althought you see it all the time this is an automatic yellow. Many of the referees will allow players to walk and stand 6 inches from the ball and just stand there. The players know that they should respectfully allow 10 yards or at least give them 3 yards. This is a delay of game tactic that should be stopped. However, he could have given one warning to the players and then followed up with a yellow afterwards.

I always tell my captains during the coin toss to tell your players "do not" stand 6 inches from my ball after a foul. If they want to stand back 2 or 3 yards and just stand there without moving they can until the attacking team ask for the 10 yards. In doing so, I'm giving my warning before the game so to have no excusing afterwards.

Advice to referee 13.2 "Required Distance for opponents" and 13.3 "Enforcing the required distance". However, it does state: "Referees should use discretion in cautioning for an infringement".

As to the player getting a yellow and being kicked out of the game. Only if it was her second yellow which should have been followed by a soft red.

I am in no way defending the referee for his control of the game. However, I think that some referees get frustrated during the games (which can be easily done) and don't think to slow down. When you have parents yelling from one side and coaches yelling from the other and then the kids on the field following the same behavior, that within itself can be painful. Unfortunately, everyone handles it differently and referees should not take it personally.
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Post by GGoat on 13/11/12, 05:22 am

Its Me wrote:Wow! Thats a lot in one game.

Some of this I have no idea about because I would have to be there or explanation would have be more detailed. It's kinda of hard to believe that he would throw the coach out after "one" statement. It could have been that he was hammering the ref all game or a couple of times during the game and just had enough.

The yellow to the defender after the second foul was discussed. The AR and center felt that it was a yellow. So, I would assume they both saw something that the parents missed.

The penalty outside the box. Who knows but maybe the keeper stepped outside the box during the punt which would be direct kick to the opposing team.

The defender walking up to the ball. Althought you see it all the time this is an automatic yellow. Many of the referees will allow players to walk and stand 6 inches from the ball and just stand there. The players know that they should respectfully allow 10 yards or at least give them 3 yards. This is a delay of game tactic that should be stopped. However, he could have given one warning to the players and then followed up with a yellow afterwards.

I always tell my captains during the coin toss to tell your players "do not" stand 6 inches from my ball after a foul. If they want to stand back 2 or 3 yards and just stand there without moving they can until the attacking team ask for the 10 yards. In doing so, I'm giving my warning before the game so to have no excusing afterwards.

Advice to referee 13.2 "Required Distance for opponents" and 13.3 "Enforcing the required distance". However, it does state: "Referees should use discretion in cautioning for an infringement".

As to the player getting a yellow and being kicked out of the game. Only if it was her second yellow which should have been followed by a soft red.

I am in no way defending the referee for his control of the game. However, I think that some referees get frustrated during the games (which can be easily done) and don't think to slow down. When you have parents yelling from one side and coaches yelling from the other and then the kids on the field following the same behavior, that within itself can be painful. Unfortunately, everyone handles it differently and referees should not take it personally.
Nothing had been said during the game like I said the game didnt matter neither team could advance. The ref I think was very tired was the excuse we were given because he had refed 3 games today and coached 2. The keeper didnt step out of the box he just changed his mind from a no call to a penalty. The second coach was tossed trying to argue the point that he had said play on and then changed it to a penalty after the fact. The Ar on our side said he didnt see what happened and even though he was closest to the play the ref never came to talk to him. This all took a long time to sort out enough time for the girls that where on the bench to run around the field and ask their parents what to do. The ar on our side told the parents that unless they have a license they cant go over to the other side. He was trying for some reason to change the outcome of the game.

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Post by ballhead on 13/11/12, 06:54 am

GGoat wrote:
Its Me wrote:Wow! Thats a lot in one game.

Some of this I have no idea about because I would have to be there or explanation would have be more detailed. It's kinda of hard to believe that he would throw the coach out after "one" statement. It could have been that he was hammering the ref all game or a couple of times during the game and just had enough.

The yellow to the defender after the second foul was discussed. The AR and center felt that it was a yellow. So, I would assume they both saw something that the parents missed.

The penalty outside the box. Who knows but maybe the keeper stepped outside the box during the punt which would be direct kick to the opposing team.

The defender walking up to the ball. Althought you see it all the time this is an automatic yellow. Many of the referees will allow players to walk and stand 6 inches from the ball and just stand there. The players know that they should respectfully allow 10 yards or at least give them 3 yards. This is a delay of game tactic that should be stopped. However, he could have given one warning to the players and then followed up with a yellow afterwards.

I always tell my captains during the coin toss to tell your players "do not" stand 6 inches from my ball after a foul. If they want to stand back 2 or 3 yards and just stand there without moving they can until the attacking team ask for the 10 yards. In doing so, I'm giving my warning before the game so to have no excusing afterwards.

Advice to referee 13.2 "Required Distance for opponents" and 13.3 "Enforcing the required distance". However, it does state: "Referees should use discretion in cautioning for an infringement".

As to the player getting a yellow and being kicked out of the game. Only if it was her second yellow which should have been followed by a soft red.

I am in no way defending the referee for his control of the game. However, I think that some referees get frustrated during the games (which can be easily done) and don't think to slow down. When you have parents yelling from one side and coaches yelling from the other and then the kids on the field following the same behavior, that within itself can be painful. Unfortunately, everyone handles it differently and referees should not take it personally.
Nothing had been said during the game like I said the game didnt matter neither team could advance. The ref I think was very tired was the excuse we were given because he had refed 3 games today and coached 2. The keeper didnt step out of the box he just changed his mind from a no call to a penalty. The second coach was tossed trying to argue the point that he had said play on and then changed it to a penalty after the fact. The Ar on our side said he didnt see what happened and even though he was closest to the play the ref never came to talk to him. This all took a long time to sort out enough time for the girls that where on the bench to run around the field and ask their parents what to do. The ar on our side told the parents that unless they have a license they cant go over to the other side. He was trying for some reason to change the outcome of the game.

Your original post seemed to be some innocent questions about some issues during the game. This post comes across as more sour grapes than anything.

"The ref I think was very tired was the excuse we were given because he had refed 3 games today and coached 2." Who gave you this excuse? Was it the ref or someone else? If it was anyone but the ref, who knows if its true, and if it is, whether it had any effect. If it was the ref himself, then he's just stupid.

"He was trying for some reason to change the outcome of the game." What motivation would the ref have for changing the outcome of the game? Unless you're saying he was also the coach of another team that would be affected by the outcome of the game. If that's the case, it should be easy to prove and would be a serious issue to take to the tournament director, and further if you didn't get satisfaction there.

What you're describing is innocent coaches and players that said and did absolutely nothing wrong that were singled out for no apparent reason to be thrown out of the game, carded, and forced to lose.

I'm not saying the ref called a good or fair game, I have no idea. But I suspect that at least some of the circumstances Its Me described didn't play into it.
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Post by GGoat on 13/11/12, 08:06 am

ballhead wrote:
GGoat wrote:
Its Me wrote:Wow! Thats a lot in one game.

Some of this I have no idea about because I would have to be there or explanation would have be more detailed. It's kinda of hard to believe that he would throw the coach out after "one" statement. It could have been that he was hammering the ref all game or a couple of times during the game and just had enough.

The yellow to the defender after the second foul was discussed. The AR and center felt that it was a yellow. So, I would assume they both saw something that the parents missed.

The penalty outside the box. Who knows but maybe the keeper stepped outside the box during the punt which would be direct kick to the opposing team.

The defender walking up to the ball. Althought you see it all the time this is an automatic yellow. Many of the referees will allow players to walk and stand 6 inches from the ball and just stand there. The players know that they should respectfully allow 10 yards or at least give them 3 yards. This is a delay of game tactic that should be stopped. However, he could have given one warning to the players and then followed up with a yellow afterwards.

I always tell my captains during the coin toss to tell your players "do not" stand 6 inches from my ball after a foul. If they want to stand back 2 or 3 yards and just stand there without moving they can until the attacking team ask for the 10 yards. In doing so, I'm giving my warning before the game so to have no excusing afterwards.

Advice to referee 13.2 "Required Distance for opponents" and 13.3 "Enforcing the required distance". However, it does state: "Referees should use discretion in cautioning for an infringement".

As to the player getting a yellow and being kicked out of the game. Only if it was her second yellow which should have been followed by a soft red.

I am in no way defending the referee for his control of the game. However, I think that some referees get frustrated during the games (which can be easily done) and don't think to slow down. When you have parents yelling from one side and coaches yelling from the other and then the kids on the field following the same behavior, that within itself can be painful. Unfortunately, everyone handles it differently and referees should not take it personally.
Nothing had been said during the game like I said the game didnt matter neither team could advance. The ref I think was very tired was the excuse we were given because he had refed 3 games today and coached 2. The keeper didnt step out of the box he just changed his mind from a no call to a penalty. The second coach was tossed trying to argue the point that he had said play on and then changed it to a penalty after the fact. The Ar on our side said he didnt see what happened and even though he was closest to the play the ref never came to talk to him. This all took a long time to sort out enough time for the girls that where on the bench to run around the field and ask their parents what to do. The ar on our side told the parents that unless they have a license they cant go over to the other side. He was trying for some reason to change the outcome of the game.

Your original post seemed to be some innocent questions about some issues during the game. This post comes across as more sour grapes than anything.

"The ref I think was very tired was the excuse we were given because he had refed 3 games today and coached 2." Who gave you this excuse? Was it the ref or someone else? If it was anyone but the ref, who knows if its true, and if it is, whether it had any effect. If it was the ref himself, then he's just stupid.

"He was trying for some reason to change the outcome of the game." What motivation would the ref have for changing the outcome of the game? Unless you're saying he was also the coach of another team that would be affected by the outcome of the game. If that's the case, it should be easy to prove and would be a serious issue to take to the tournament director, and further if you didn't get satisfaction there.

What you're describing is innocent coaches and players that said and did absolutely nothing wrong that were singled out for no apparent reason to be thrown out of the game, carded, and forced to lose.

I'm not saying the ref called a good or fair game, I have no idea. But I suspect that at least some of the circumstances Its Me described didn't play into it.

No sour grapes they won and i posted what they said so i guess they should have been kicked out for that I dont know. Like I said earlier the game didnt matter I was just trying to answer your question and get more detail for you like you asked but as far as the ref having 3 games and coaching 2 was told to us to try an explain why he was so short with everyone. i dont know who he coached for and didnt ask. no one really cared they won and no one got hurt but it was very stressful
my orginal question is
1 can you give a yellow for standing to close to the ball and that seems to be answered
2 can the ref change his mind on a play on call and change it to a penelty kick if the team does score and the keeper gets the ball.

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Post by Guest on 13/11/12, 09:08 am

$100 says the "ref" was not really a ref. He was probably wearing some old uniform he had from back in the day when he volunteered to help out in his dd's rec league. Aces were short and asked him to cover a few games. There is too much he didn't know according to your initial post.

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Post by Its Me on 13/11/12, 10:16 am

Yes, the referee can allow the game to continue by saying, "Play on" to see if the play will develop into an advantage. If after seeing that advantage did NOT develop they can blow the whistle and call a PK or foul. It's not that he changed his mind, its just that he was "delaying his call".

Advice to Referee;

5.6 ADVANTAGE
Referees have the power to apply (and signal) the advantage upon seeing a foul or misconduct
committed if at that moment the terms of the advantage clause (Law 5, 11th item) were met. Applying
advantage permits the referee to allow play to continue when the team against which the foul has been
committed will actually benefit from the referee not stopping play.

Soccer is a team sport and the referee is expected to apply advantage if the fouled
player's team is able to retain or regain control of the ball.

The referee may return to and penalize the original foul if the advantage situation does not develop as
anticipated after a short while (2-3 seconds).
Referees should note that the "advantage" is not defined
solely in terms of scoring a goal. Also, a subsequent offense by a player of the offending team must not
be ignored while the referee allows the anticipated development of the advantage. Such an offense may
either be recognized by stopping play immediately or by applying the advantage clause again.
Regardless of the outcome of the advantage call, the referee must deal appropriately with any
misconduct at the next stoppage, before allowing play to be restarted.


I hope this helps. I know it seems like referees are making a lot of this stuff up during the game however there are a LOT of things you have to consider within a split second during the game. Not only knowing the laws of the game but having to apply not only the law but the sub-parts under each.
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Post by Tiki-taka on 13/11/12, 01:09 pm

GGoat wrote:
Its Me wrote:Wow! Thats a lot in one game.

Some of this I have no idea about because I would have to be there or explanation would have be more detailed. It's kinda of hard to believe that he would throw the coach out after "one" statement. It could have been that he was hammering the ref all game or a couple of times during the game and just had enough.

The yellow to the defender after the second foul was discussed. The AR and center felt that it was a yellow. So, I would assume they both saw something that the parents missed.

The penalty outside the box. Who knows but maybe the keeper stepped outside the box during the punt which would be direct kick to the opposing team.

The defender walking up to the ball. Althought you see it all the time this is an automatic yellow. Many of the referees will allow players to walk and stand 6 inches from the ball and just stand there. The players know that they should respectfully allow 10 yards or at least give them 3 yards. This is a delay of game tactic that should be stopped. However, he could have given one warning to the players and then followed up with a yellow afterwards.

I always tell my captains during the coin toss to tell your players "do not" stand 6 inches from my ball after a foul. If they want to stand back 2 or 3 yards and just stand there without moving they can until the attacking team ask for the 10 yards. In doing so, I'm giving my warning before the game so to have no excusing afterwards.

Advice to referee 13.2 "Required Distance for opponents" and 13.3 "Enforcing the required distance". However, it does state: "Referees should use discretion in cautioning for an infringement".

As to the player getting a yellow and being kicked out of the game. Only if it was her second yellow which should have been followed by a soft red.

I am in no way defending the referee for his control of the game. However, I think that some referees get frustrated during the games (which can be easily done) and don't think to slow down. When you have parents yelling from one side and coaches yelling from the other and then the kids on the field following the same behavior, that within itself can be painful. Unfortunately, everyone handles it differently and referees should not take it personally.
Nothing had been said during the game like I said the game didnt matter neither team could advance. The ref I think was very tired was the excuse we were given because he had refed 3 games today and coached 2. The keeper didnt step out of the box he just changed his mind from a no call to a penalty. The second coach was tossed trying to argue the point that he had said play on and then changed it to a penalty after the fact. The Ar on our side said he didnt see what happened and even though he was closest to the play the ref never came to talk to him. This all took a long time to sort out enough time for the girls that where on the bench to run around the field and ask their parents what to do. The ar on our side told the parents that unless they have a license they cant go over to the other side. He was trying for some reason to change the outcome of the game.

Nit picking here but additionally thrown into the mix is the AR being wrong about telling the parents that unless they have a license they cant go over to the other side. Technically, if the person is listed on the Roster and Misconduct form for the game they can be on the Player side. If both coaches are thrown out, usually the manager is listed on the form and can take over. I don't ever recall a ref asking before, during, or after a game to see a coach's license. Wow, just a mess of a situation.
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Post by GGoat on 13/11/12, 03:14 pm

Thanks yall I knew you would know. So it looks like the ref was right just never seen it happen before where the ref says play on then calls for apk after the fact. Thanks its me.
Tiki Thanks so someone needs to be on the form and they can go over to take care of the girls. if they are not on the forms then they cant go. What if a player gets hurt and needs help from mom or dad. We have to remember these girls are still only 10- 12 years old.

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Aces tournment crazy game another question for the refs Empty Re: Aces tournment crazy game another question for the refs

Post by ballhead on 13/11/12, 03:31 pm

GGoat wrote:Thanks yall I knew you would know. So it looks like the ref was right just never seen it happen before where the ref says play on then calls for apk after the fact. Thanks its me.
Tiki Thanks so someone needs to be on the form and they can go over to take care of the girls. if they are not on the forms then they cant go. What if a player gets hurt and needs help from mom or dad. We have to remember these girls are still only 10- 12 years old.

Different tournaments and leagues will handle it differently. Most rarely check credentials of any adult on the bench. Some, such as State Cup, provide badges to allow you to be on the bench, but I've seen our coach on the bench at State Cup (even though he forgot his.

As a rule, you have a coach, any assistant coaches, and the manager on the roster, but most likely none of them will be asked for any sort of id.

My experience is that if an adult goes over and acts responsibly, no one is going to say anything to them either.
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Aces tournment crazy game another question for the refs Empty Re: Aces tournment crazy game another question for the refs

Post by debit on 13/11/12, 05:35 pm

Its Me wrote:Yes, the referee can allow the game to continue by saying, "Play on" to see if the play will develop into an advantage. If after seeing that advantage did NOT develop they can blow the whistle and call a PK or foul. It's not that he changed his mind, its just that he was "delaying his call".

Advice to Referee;

5.6 ADVANTAGE
Referees have the power to apply (and signal) the advantage upon seeing a foul or misconduct
committed if at that moment the terms of the advantage clause (Law 5, 11th item) were met. Applying
advantage permits the referee to allow play to continue when the team against which the foul has been
committed will actually benefit from the referee not stopping play.

Soccer is a team sport and the referee is expected to apply advantage if the fouled
player's team is able to retain or regain control of the ball.

The referee may return to and penalize the original foul if the advantage situation does not develop as
anticipated after a short while (2-3 seconds).
Referees should note that the "advantage" is not defined
solely in terms of scoring a goal. Also, a subsequent offense by a player of the offending team must not
be ignored while the referee allows the anticipated development of the advantage. Such an offense may
either be recognized by stopping play immediately or by applying the advantage clause again.
Regardless of the outcome of the advantage call, the referee must deal appropriately with any
misconduct at the next stoppage, before allowing play to be restarted.


I hope this helps. I know it seems like referees are making a lot of this stuff up during the game however there are a LOT of things you have to consider within a split second during the game. Not only knowing the laws of the game but having to apply not only the law but the sub-parts under each.

I saw a ref do this in a tournament in Oklahoma this past weekend. My son's team fouled the opponent. The ref signaled play-on and within 2 seconds it was apparent the advantage disappeared quickly so he blew the whistle and loudly stated, "NO ADVANTAGE" and signaled for the free kick.

It took me a minute to process what had happened as I replayed it in my mind. I came away very impressed that the ref processed all of that in just a few seconds.

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Aces tournment crazy game another question for the refs Empty Re: Aces tournment crazy game another question for the refs

Post by GGoat on 14/11/12, 03:22 am

Thanks yall lots of great answers.

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Aces tournment crazy game another question for the refs Empty Re: Aces tournment crazy game another question for the refs

Post by Tyler's Team on 15/11/12, 08:00 pm

We were in a charity cancer tournament last weekend where most of our games only consisted of 2 - rarely 3 refs. Regardless of the fact that it was all for a great cause, should a tournament continue to go on if the games are not properly staffed with officials?
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Aces tournment crazy game another question for the refs Empty Re: Aces tournment crazy game another question for the refs

Post by Gunner9 on 15/11/12, 08:14 pm

Tyler's Team wrote:We were in a charity cancer tournament last weekend where most of our games only consisted of 2 - rarely 3 refs. Regardless of the fact that it was all for a great cause, should a tournament continue to go on if the games are not properly staffed with officials?

SOP in many tourneys is to use club linesman, sometimes alternating halfs between the teams. I ran a line in my dd's game one year at WAGS. Needless to say, the offside calls were interesting. Very Happy
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Aces tournment crazy game another question for the refs Empty Re: Aces tournment crazy game another question for the refs

Post by Tyler's Team on 16/11/12, 09:23 am

At one point we heard that the Directors of this tournament were asking for volunteers to cover games due to desperation. Based on some of the awful calls we saw and the coaches getting furious with refs (some getting kicked out of games), I don't think experience / credentials were a top priority. It looked like the locals (volunteers) were suited up and told to give it their best shot. The money went to a GREAT cause but I think our teams will rethink this tournament next year.
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Aces tournment crazy game another question for the refs Empty Re: Aces tournment crazy game another question for the refs

Post by Hook It on 16/11/12, 12:43 pm

Tyler's Team wrote:At one point we heard that the Directors of this tournament were asking for volunteers to cover games due to desperation. Based on some of the awful calls we saw and the coaches getting furious with refs (some getting kicked out of games), I don't think experience / credentials were a top priority. It looked like the locals (volunteers) were suited up and told to give it their best shot. The money went to a GREAT cause but I think our teams will rethink this tournament next year.

Was not aware that this Tournament was non-for profit. Can you explain what the cause was - I did not see anthing on the website. It may sway more teams to consider it in the future.

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Aces tournment crazy game another question for the refs Empty Re: Aces tournment crazy game another question for the refs

Post by FC Sanger on 16/11/12, 02:25 pm

Two different tournaments are being discussed here.

AFC is one

KIK in Denton is the other.

Separate events on the same weekend

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