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Post by santos.l.halper on 10/01/13, 02:33 pm

Happy New Year Y'all!

What is the fairest way for a Club to deal with delinquent club dues?

A. Bench the player. Not fair to the kid.
B. Dock coach's pay. Not fair to coach.
C. Take away tournament from calendar to make budget. Not fair to other players.
D. Dock DOC pay. Not fair to DOC.
E. Send increasingly threatening letters to delinquent parents until....what?
F. Shame the parents by naming names at team communications about who is delinquent and by how much.
G. Go Babylonian on them (see Ezra 6:11)

Seriously, if you were running a team or club (maybe you are), what is the best way to deal with this? I have heard of anything from A to F happening, so I wonder what txsoccer thinks.

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Post by MustangGT on 10/01/13, 02:54 pm

santos.l.halper wrote:Happy New Year Y'all!

What is the fairest way for a Club to deal with delinquent club dues?

A. Bench the player. Not fair to the kid.
B. Dock coach's pay. Not fair to coach.
C. Take away tournament from calendar to make budget. Not fair to other players.
D. Dock DOC pay. Not fair to DOC.
E. Send increasingly threatening letters to delinquent parents until....what?
F. Shame the parents by naming names at team communications about who is delinquent and by how much.
G. Go Babylonian on them (see Ezra 6:11)

Seriously, if you were running a team or club (maybe you are), what is the best way to deal with this? I have heard of anything from A to F happening, so I wonder what txsoccer thinks.


How about option H: Mass public shame by posting the full info onto this message board!

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Post by Guest on 10/01/13, 02:58 pm

B.

At the end of the day, the coach is ultimately responsible for the financial health of his/her team. He/She decides which players to extend contract offers to and whether or not to scholarship any player(s). He/She has the final say on what/how many tournaments a team plays in (and in the case of academy, which league the team plays in), whether or not he/she mandates off-season indoor/futsal league and/or indoor field rentals. If someone is delinquent, coach needs to be given a reasonable window of notice (1 month?) to address the situation with the family before his/her pay is docked. Coach can then determine if there are extenuating circumstances and whether or not he/she should go to bat for the family and see if an alternate payment agreement can be worked out with the family/team/club, or if he/she is willing to take a temporary cut in pay to help the family out through a tough time. If family is unresponsive, coach then decides if removing practice/playing time privileges is a suitable recourse.


Last edited by bwgophers on 10/01/13, 03:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Guest on 10/01/13, 03:00 pm

i vote for asking for parents to pay up. if that doesnt work, bench the kid. that will work wonders. "dad, why am i not playing" will see immediate results. no pay no play

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Post by bigtex75081 on 10/01/13, 04:26 pm

This is a business so it should be budgeted correctly. If you're depending on 100% from collections, your budget wasn't realistic from the beginning.

Option I: How about setting up a realistic budget before the contract year begins? It's not realistic to expect 100% of your families to pay 100% of their dues in a timely manner. We all know that sh!t happens. Budgets should account for sh!t hitting the fan sometimes.

Most teams DO account for this stuff correctly by only budgeting for a 13-player roster.
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Post by TNT on 10/01/13, 04:44 pm

silentparent wrote:i vote for asking for parents to pay up. if that doesnt work, bench the kid. that will work wonders. "dad, why am i not playing" will see immediate results. no pay no play

Agree!

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Post by jen_nah on 10/01/13, 08:10 pm

I think a phone call or email to parent reminding them that they are in breach of their contract and their child will be benched until payment or a resolution has been agreed upon.

I agree you can't set a budget for 100% paying but if all do add an add'l late spring tourney that wouldn't have happened if not all paid. Or throw are really cool end of year team party with left over funds.

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Post by 34blast on 11/01/13, 06:28 pm

bigtex75081 wrote:It's not realistic to expect 100% of your families to pay 100% of their dues in a timely manner. We all know that sh!t happens. .

A bit funny, your team should budget this happening, but it is a contract. You have to pay. If you can't afford to pay, don't sign. Kinda like a mortgage or car payment. If you agree to pay for a service, sorry you have to pay, that's why its called a contract.

If you are in breech of a contract, its up to the club / coach to decide what to do. A decent parent should communicate what is going on. Its not cool for the coach to find out second hand someone is consistently late or not paying dues.

If I am the coach or manager, I talk to the parent in person. If they can pay later, and do, no harm, but please don't do it again. If they don't pay, he doesn't practice or play until payment is received.

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Post by Triumph FC on 11/01/13, 10:51 pm

34blast wrote:
bigtex75081 wrote:It's not realistic to expect 100% of your families to pay 100% of their dues in a timely manner. We all know that sh!t happens. .

A bit funny, your team should budget this happening, but it is a contract. You have to pay. If you can't afford to pay, don't sign. Kinda like a mortgage or car payment. If you agree to pay for a service, sorry you have to pay, that's why its called a contract.

If you are in breech of a contract, its up to the club / coach to decide what to do. A decent parent should communicate what is going on. Its not cool for the coach to find out second hand someone is consistently late or not paying dues.

If I am the coach or manager, I talk to the parent in person. If they can pay later, and do, no harm, but please don't do it again. If they don't pay, he doesn't practice or play until payment is received.

The problem is under North Texas rules you cannot stop them from practicing but you can stop them from playing
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Post by oldboot on 12/01/13, 07:51 am

One thing the coach cannot do is release the player from the team roster, unless the player agrees.
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Post by bigtex75081 on 13/01/13, 09:13 am

Triumph FC wrote:
34blast wrote:
bigtex75081 wrote:It's not realistic to expect 100% of your families to pay 100% of their dues in a timely manner. We all know that sh!t happens. .

A bit funny, your team should budget this happening, but it is a contract. You have to pay. If you can't afford to pay, don't sign. Kinda like a mortgage or car payment. If you agree to pay for a service, sorry you have to pay, that's why its called a contract.

If you are in breech of a contract, its up to the club / coach to decide what to do. A decent parent should communicate what is going on. Its not cool for the coach to find out second hand someone is consistently late or not paying dues.

If I am the coach or manager, I talk to the parent in person. If they can pay later, and do, no harm, but please don't do it again. If they don't pay, he doesn't practice or play until payment is received.
The problem is under North Texas rules you cannot stop them from practicing but you can stop them from playing
34blast - I'm not saying that it isn't a contract. I'm not saying that when you sign a contract you aren't obligated to satisfy the contract before you're released from it.

I'm talking about budgeting. A realistic budget, with accurate forecasting, should account for things like missed collections. A budget should be a helpful forecasting tool. It should not be a source of angst for leadership. If meeting your budget is causing you unnecessary headaches that are constantly creating shortfalls, like not meeting 100% on all collections, then your budgeting at the onset was not realistic.

Budgets should not be a "happy path" forecast. The "happy path" or "sunny day" scenarios should result in exceeding your budget, not meeting them. Is a $100 shortfall REALLY WORTH months of angry collection threats? For me it isn't because I value my time (and sanity) more highly than that.

Let's say you unexpectedly lose your job in a terribly economy. Without seeing the layoff coming you already have multiple contractual obligations in place. 1 mortgage... 2 car payments... 10+ Utility bills... and at the very bottom of that list of obligations you have a contract for your DD to play select soccer.

Would you put paying for your DD's select soccer ahead of paying your mortgage? I wouldn't.

If you were the coach, and a valued family on your team had this happen to them, would you bench the kid indefinitely until that parent returned to work? I wouldn't.

Budgets should be thoughtfully crafted as a tool to help the business. They shouldn’t be a source of conflict and headaches.
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Post by bigtex75081 on 13/01/13, 09:33 am

Real story related to this topic...

I'm sure most of you have heard the story of Clint Dempsey and his sister. You've heard that his sister was a talented tennis player and, because of budget constraints for their family, they almost had to remove Clint entirely from soccer. The family had to choose DD's tennis or BB's soccer. They were prepared to choose tennis for DD. It was the families on Clint's Texans team that brought the financials together to allow Clint to keep playing soccer. That team was rewarded with a couple national championships.

So for all of you that get angry about money in soccer and contracts... Would you have cut Clint Dempsey from your team because his family couldn't pay full dues?
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Post by Gunner9 on 13/01/13, 10:03 am

I don't think anyone would reply to cut a player in that scenario. As a long-time club administrator, however, I will tell you that the great majority of people we had trouble collecting dues from had the ability to pay. There was usually some other issue(s).
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Post by flippinA on 13/01/13, 10:54 am

why don't you find out why they aren't paying? and see what you can do to work with them.
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Post by Guest on 13/01/13, 10:57 am

So for all of you that get angry about money in soccer and contracts... Would you have cut Clint Dempsey from your team because his family couldn't pay full dues?

yes, i would have unless the club decided to scholarship him. no pay no play.

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Post by ballhead on 13/01/13, 11:43 am

In my experience non-payment issues are almost always as a result of playing time. In addition, these same people are often serial offenders, and has left a previous team, albeit with a great story why they were forced into doing it.

It seems the more they do it the easier it gets.
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Post by bigtex75081 on 13/01/13, 11:52 am

I don't have any issue with any of your positions. I think all of you understand my point about budgeting.

Are there people that don't pay when they potentially could? Yes, most definitely.

Are there outside circumstances that could impact a good family? Yes.

Is a budget with 100% timely compliance realistic? No. I don't think we can operate this business in absolutes UNLESS your organization is willing to cut somebody like Clint Dempsey.
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Post by texflats on 14/01/13, 05:57 pm

santos.l.halper wrote:
What is the fairest way for a Club to deal with delinquent club dues?

F. Shame the parents by naming names at team communications about who is delinquent and by how much.

As a manager, I firmly believe that transparency helps a lot. For this to work well don't simply call out the miscreants. Instead let everyone know who has paid and how much, etc. When parents know that you will post that level of detail each month most of the BS goes away. Not all mind you!

True Story -

A self employed parent on a U13 PP Team told me how her business was not doing well, cant pay right now, blah, blah, blah. All of those excuses were total baloney. This over the top soccer mom was in fact trying to get her dd, Little Susie, transferred up to Coach Joe-Bob's D2 team. Thank god that the club had some backbone. In the end Coach Joe-Bob agreed to take Little Susie, but crazy soccer mom had to pay our team in full before any transfer would be executed.

All the drama in this case was not needed. Had Crazy Soccer Mom just been open and honest, she probably would have had Little Susie moved much sooner and with less hard feelings!

YMMV

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Post by Five 0 on 15/01/13, 08:17 am

Club Soccer is a business.Do not believe for a second when they tell you , its for the kids. Parents beware before you sign that contract, make sure you know what your signing. .Parents be realistic if your player is going to play or sit the bench . You do not want to pay $2400.00 plus uniforms and take a day off every weekend to watch your player sit the bench.
I would not pay the club their dues if my player sat the bench. Parents there are independent teams that are more affordable . There are alternatives. And if the player is a game changer, player will not be benched. There are kids in Argentina, Brazil , Italy all over world that are becoming professional players and are not paying these fees. You know, soccer is played outside this little ranch called north texas.

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Post by Gunners on 15/01/13, 09:10 am

Five 0 wrote:Club Soccer is a business.Do not believe for a second when they tell you , its for the kids. Parents beware before you sign that contract, make sure you know what your signing. .Parents be realistic if your player is going to play or sit the bench . You do not want to pay $2400.00 plus uniforms and take a day off every weekend to watch your player sit the bench.
I would not pay the club their dues if my player sat the bench. Parents there are independent teams that are more affordable . There are alternatives. And if the player is a game changer, player will not be benched. There are kids in Argentina, Brazil , Italy all over world that are becoming professional players and are not paying these fees. You know, soccer is played outside this little ranch called north texas.

Then why did you sign the contract?

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Post by Five 0 on 15/01/13, 09:37 am

Yes, I signed contract and have paid it off.
Have no complaints about playing time. My player gets plenty of playing time on division 1 team with one of the four big 4 clubs , but that does not mean I do not see what is going on around team. It is what it is....
And you are right , this next season I already have a door open .Will not be signing with big club again.

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Post by Guest on 15/01/13, 09:42 am

Five 0 wrote:Yes, I signed contract and have paid it off.
Have no complaints about playing time. My player gets plenty of playing time on division 1 team with one of the four big 4 clubs , but that does not mean I do not see what is going on around team. It is what it is....
And you are right , this next season I already have a door open .Will not be signing with big club again.


Hmm, your daughter plays a lot on a high level team but you are unhappy. Usually that spells "i want the coach and club to do what I want but they are not doing it." Enjoy your small club the problems will still be there but you will get your way more often and isn't that what YOU really want?

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Post by Five 0 on 15/01/13, 09:54 am

keep guessing..........You do not even know me, yet you build you own conclusion...
Everyone has a right to an opinion. Like some of you , that want to lynch the non paying parent. I am not even an unhappy parent. Get along great with manager and coach .Just a parent with an opinion . It is a forum and I think , they asked what the forum thought.
After this post ...I will be moving on......Cyaaaaaaaaaa

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Post by Guest on 15/01/13, 10:03 am

Five 0 wrote:keep guessing..........You do not even know me, yet you build you own conclusion...
Everyone has a right to an opinion. Like some of you , that want to lynch the non paying parent. I am not even an unhappy parent. Get along great with manager and coach .Just a parent with an opinion . It is a forum and I think , they asked what the forum thought.
After this post ...I will be moving on......Cyaaaaaaaaaa

Yet, you will be leaving your big 4 club, even though your daughter plays a lot on a high level team, you get along great with coach and manager? Hmm next time why dont you tell what you really are unhappy with? Hmmm

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Post by DrSoccer on 15/01/13, 01:54 pm

Many top teams put together a budget, say 38,400 then divide it by 16 (paying players=2400), then recruit players up to (20-24?) based on lower or no dues. Sometimes they start with 5-7 scholarship (starters)players and have to recruit players based on paying full dues, not wether they will play (not discussed w/player). That is why you often see coaches talking players/parents onto teams and then mysteriously benching them for lack of talent (the kid was recruited there to pay, not play). My dd once was on a team with 8+ players on some type of scholarship. Our coach misguided a few players who were marginal onto the team just to make the budget. No they didnt play, yes the parents were upset, yes they paid.
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