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Post by soccerstand on 23/01/13, 12:14 pm

Rank School Conference Record
1 Plano West 5A 5-0-0
2 Flower Mound Marcus 5A 6-0-1
3 Highland Park 4A 8-0-1
4 McKinney Boyd 5A 6-1-1
5 Southlake Carroll 5A 8-1-0
6 Hebron 5A 6-0-0
7 Coppell 5A 7-0-1
8 Denton Guyer 4A 6-0-0
9 Mansfield 5A 5-0-0
10 Wylie East 4A 7-0-0
11 Prosper 4A 4-0-0
12 Greenhill SPC 8-0-0
13 Byron Nelson 4A 3-0-1
14 McKinney High 4A 3-0-1
15 Frisco High 4A 7-0-2
16 Episcopal School SPC 7-0-1
17 Carrollton Creekview 4A 8-1-1
18 Wylie 4A 8-1-1
19 Wakeland 4A 7-1-2
20 Weatherford 5A 4-0-1

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Post by Sloppy J on 24/01/13, 06:50 am

Good effort.

You have at least one error in your classifications: McKinney is 5A, not 4A.

You might want to separate 4A from 5A and do two rankings. Not sure 4A to 5A comparisons have relevance. North Dakota State and SHSU are really good football teams, but to the best of my knowledge they aren't ranked against FBS teams, even though they may have an occassional cross over game. (But I would bet they could give numbers 20-25 in FBS rankings a heck of a game.) If you are going to include 4A and 5A, why not add a nod to 3A?

Good luck with this.

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Post by Pitchmon on 24/01/13, 09:34 pm

Sloppy J wrote:Good effort.

You have at least one error in your classifications: McKinney is 5A, not 4A.

You might want to separate 4A from 5A and do two rankings. Not sure 4A to 5A comparisons have relevance. North Dakota State and SHSU are really good football teams, but to the best of my knowledge they aren't ranked against FBS teams, even though they may have an occassional cross over game. (But I would bet they could give numbers 20-25 in FBS rankings a heck of a game.) If you are going to include 4A and 5A, why not add a nod to 3A?

Good luck with this.

Go Bearkats!!
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Post by gobigorgohome10 on 24/01/13, 10:38 pm

Do not believe that this is fair to say. there are many many 4As that could beat 5As. Heck look at the rankings, it has ESD and Greenhill in top 15. These schools both have less than 300 kids in HS. and they are both great from what i hear. so really soccer doesnt matter the classification like it would in football bc of simply just having numbers..
the smaller schools may not be deep on the bench, but their starters can hang with the best of them

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Post by Uncle Numanga on 25/01/13, 08:39 am

gobigorgohome10 wrote:Do not believe that this is fair to say. there are many many 4As that could beat 5As. Heck look at the rankings, it has ESD and Greenhill in top 15. These schools both have less than 300 kids in HS. and they are both great from what i hear. so really soccer doesnt matter the classification like it would in football bc of simply just having numbers..
the smaller schools may not be deep on the bench, but their starters can hang with the best of them

Beating less talented Parochial schools does not make them great, just better than those other schools. Look at the results from NEPS: Strong private schools such as host Nolan Catholic (TAPPS), Ursuline (TAPPS), Bishop Lynch (TAPPS), and Hockaday (SPC), all underachieved a bit on the weekend going 4-10-2.

To compare them to the top 4A and 5A programs is unreasonable. They are there to compete against the same. They are not the same quality.
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Post by Spinal Tap on 25/01/13, 09:33 am

Uncle Numanga wrote:
gobigorgohome10 wrote:Do not believe that this is fair to say. there are many many 4As that could beat 5As. Heck look at the rankings, it has ESD and Greenhill in top 15. These schools both have less than 300 kids in HS. and they are both great from what i hear. so really soccer doesnt matter the classification like it would in football bc of simply just having numbers..
the smaller schools may not be deep on the bench, but their starters can hang with the best of them

Beating less talented Parochial schools does not make them great, just better than those other schools. Look at the results from NEPS: Strong private schools such as host Nolan Catholic (TAPPS), Ursuline (TAPPS), Bishop Lynch (TAPPS), and Hockaday (SPC), all underachieved a bit on the weekend going 4-10-2.

To compare them to the top 4A and 5A programs is unreasonable. They are there to compete against the same. They are not the same quality.

In most years, I agree. But there have been some UA teams in recent years that have been every bit as good as any 5A or 4A team in the state and have proven it in nondistrict play. That said, all of the NTX TAAPS teams seem to be a bit down this year IMHO.
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Post by gobigorgohome10 on 25/01/13, 01:44 pm

Uncle Numanga, you must not keep up every year. Privates dominate public schools all the time. Check out any top private schools schedule and they play publics ad beat them, or compete with them. So saying it is complete different game, and unreasonable IMO is uneducated. Last year, Nolan and John Paul II boys both beat or tied either a regional finalist from year before or a team that made it last year. Ursuline and BL murder public schools in girls.
Now these private schools arent as deep on the bench, but the top 12-14 players on good private school teams such as Ursuline, BL, Nolan, JPII, and ESD can compete with most.

Spinal Tap is right though, last year privates in TAPPS were really strong, this year they are down alittle, for whatever reason.

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Post by Uncle Numanga on 25/01/13, 05:39 pm

That's just your private school ego getting the best of you. The only times they ever play each other is in the National Elite Prep Showcase. A midseason event for the privates, a beginning of the year tournament for the publics. Each year Ursuline does fine but the others are usually destroyed. Now I have only been watching this for the last 4 years and I just don't see the results you claim. If you'd like to post where BL and Ursuline last murdered a respectable, NTX 5A school, I would like to see it. Don't just claim they used to be monsters but are down this year.

And I don't care about the boys side.
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Post by Spinal Tap on 25/01/13, 08:31 pm

Uncle Numanga wrote:That's just your private school ego getting the best of you. The only times they ever play each other is in the National Elite Prep Showcase. A midseason event for the privates, a beginning of the year tournament for the publics. Each year Ursuline does fine but the others are usually destroyed. Now I have only been watching this for the last 4 years and I just don't see the results you claim. If you'd like to post where BL and Ursuline last murdered a respectable, NTX 5A school, I would like to see it. Don't just claim they used to be monsters but are down this year.

And I don't care about the boys side.

I can't find an archive of past results, but I know UA has fared ok against some of the top public schools over the years (I certainly wouldn't use the terms 'destroy' or 'dominate'). Perhaps some old timers can chime in. And they don't just play at NEPS, as you claim. In fact, UA plays Boyd tonight and Plano West next week. I think they may struggle, but they do play them.
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Post by Uncle Numanga on 26/01/13, 10:02 am

I didn't know that. Good luck to UA.
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Post by soccerbop on 26/01/13, 12:05 pm

UA tied Boyd 1-1 last night in a very good match that could have gone either way. Gotta love the Boyd parents though. Absolutely no love for the refs or UA girls. Great entertainment on a Friday night. Nothing close to that type of "big game" atmosphere in TAPPS.....which is too bad. Maybe UA-Nolan comes close.
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Post by gobigorgohome10 on 26/01/13, 02:31 pm

UA probably played them with their subs too since they are in middle of district, or at ,east made a lot of subs.

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Post by Sloppy J on 26/01/13, 04:48 pm

gobigorgohome10 wrote:UA probably played them with their subs too since they are in middle of district, or at ,east made a lot of subs.

First, UA does appear to schedule tougher games than most private schools. So kudos to UA for being unafraid to test their mettle.

IMO, to say that the game could have gone either way is being overly generous to UA. (If by that one meant anything is possible, then ok. If by that one means who controlled the ball and had the most chances, I would estimate 70% controlled by Boyd at the UA end of the field. UA had probably four decent opportunities to score, with the best being the sole corner kick which resulted in a scrum on which they scored.) Let me put it this way, it became apparent in the waning minutes that UA saw a tie as a win as they held the ball and slowed play. (Also, as a side note, Boyd had a goal called back for offsides which was iffy. The UA goalie tossed the ball toward the center of the field and the UA girls were turning back to reset following the goal when everyone realized that the call had been made.)

The UA girls started fast each half but wore down quickly. It was more apparent at the start of the second half than the first. And while UA subbed, they did not sub in the numbers that Boyd subbed.

With this year's respective teams, out of ten games, I would expect UA to draw 2 and win 2. I.e., UA loses 6 of 10. (Keep in mind UA lost the first game between these two.) And I mean no disrespect. UA is a good scrappy team - but still, how do I rank them against those 5A schools based on that? If a 5A school lost a game to UA would I say that makes them worse than Boyd? Not necessarily.

As to the discussion on this thread, I can't say that I can provide any analysis for the other private schools based on what I saw last night. And that is the problem with mixing classifications. Did ESD play UA? Did they dominate UA? If so, then maybe they should be number 3 or 4? On the other hand, I can get a clearer picture for the teams that play each other regularly.

FYI - my dd will tell you that she would expect SLC to beat UA, yet if all you looked at were last night's results and the results of the Boyd-SLC game, you wouldn't know that.

p.s. The UA parents were a fun group, even if they don't accurately report how games went. Wink

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Post by Spinal Tap on 26/01/13, 05:33 pm

Sloppy J wrote:
gobigorgohome10 wrote:UA probably played them with their subs too since they are in middle of district, or at ,east made a lot of subs.

First, UA does appear to schedule tougher games than most private schools. So kudos to UA for being unafraid to test their mettle.

IMO, to say that the game could have gone either way is being overly generous to UA. (If by that one meant anything is possible, then ok. If by that one means who controlled the ball and had the most chances, I would estimate 70% controlled by Boyd at the UA end of the field. UA had probably four decent opportunities to score, with the best being the sole corner kick which resulted in a scrum on which they scored.) Let me put it this way, it became apparent in the waning minutes that UA saw a tie as a win as they held the ball and slowed play. (Also, as a side note, Boyd had a goal called back for offsides which was iffy. The UA goalie tossed the ball toward the center of the field and the UA girls were turning back to reset following the goal when everyone realized that the call had been made.)

The UA girls started fast each half but wore down quickly. It was more apparent at the start of the second half than the first. And while UA subbed, they did not sub in the numbers that Boyd subbed.

With this year's respective teams, out of ten games, I would expect UA to draw 2 and win 2. I.e., UA loses 6 of 10. (Keep in mind UA lost the first game between these two.) And I mean no disrespect. UA is a good scrappy team - but still, how do I rank them against those 5A schools based on that? If a 5A school lost a game to UA would I say that makes them worse than Boyd? Not necessarily.

As to the discussion on this thread, I can't say that I can provide any analysis for the other private schools based on what I saw last night. And that is the problem with mixing classifications. Did ESD play UA? Did they dominate UA? If so, then maybe they should be number 3 or 4? On the other hand, I can get a clearer picture for the teams that play each other regularly.

FYI - my dd will tell you that she would expect SLC to beat UA, yet if all you looked at were last night's results and the results of the Boyd-SLC game, you wouldn't know that.

p.s. The UA parents were a fun group, even if they don't accurately report how games went. Wink

Good game report -- thanks! Based on what I've read in the DMN, sounds like Boyd is pretty loaded this year. Should be interesting come playoff time with all of the quality NTX public HS teams.
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Post by Lawnboy on 26/01/13, 07:04 pm

Sloppy J wrote:
gobigorgohome10 wrote:UA probably played them with their subs too since they are in middle of district, or at ,east made a lot of subs.

First, UA does appear to schedule tougher games than most private schools. So kudos to UA for being unafraid to test their mettle.

IMO, to say that the game could have gone either way is being overly generous to UA. (If by that one meant anything is possible, then ok. If by that one means who controlled the ball and had the most chances, I would estimate 70% controlled by Boyd at the UA end of the field. UA had probably four decent opportunities to score, with the best being the sole corner kick which resulted in a scrum on which they scored.) Let me put it this way, it became apparent in the waning minutes that UA saw a tie as a win as they held the ball and slowed play. (Also, as a side note, Boyd had a goal called back for offsides which was iffy. The UA goalie tossed the ball toward the center of the field and the UA girls were turning back to reset following the goal when everyone realized that the call had been made.)

The UA girls started fast each half but wore down quickly. It was more apparent at the start of the second half than the first. And while UA subbed, they did not sub in the numbers that Boyd subbed.

With this year's respective teams, out of ten games, I would expect UA to draw 2 and win 2. I.e., UA loses 6 of 10. (Keep in mind UA lost the first game between these two.) And I mean no disrespect. UA is a good scrappy team - but still, how do I rank them against those 5A schools based on that? If a 5A school lost a game to UA would I say that makes them worse than Boyd? Not necessarily.

As to the discussion on this thread, I can't say that I can provide any analysis for the other private schools based on what I saw last night. And that is the problem with mixing classifications. Did ESD play UA? Did they dominate UA? If so, then maybe they should be number 3 or 4? On the other hand, I can get a clearer picture for the teams that play each other regularly.

FYI - my dd will tell you that she would expect SLC to beat UA, yet if all you looked at were last night's results and the results of the Boyd-SLC game, you wouldn't know that.

p.s. The UA parents were a fun group, even if they don't accurately report how games went. Wink

Agree with your assessment. The possession was clearly won by Boyd (not close) and Boyd's ball movement in the final third was on another level.

But - kudos to UA. They held on and did what they had to do on that set play with 2 minutes left. Not effectively clearing the threat cost the Broncos a "W."

And yes... the UA parents were good for a chuckle or two. Smile

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Post by Lawnboy on 26/01/13, 07:09 pm

Spinal Tap wrote:
Sloppy J wrote:
gobigorgohome10 wrote:UA probably played them with their subs too since they are in middle of district, or at ,east made a lot of subs.

First, UA does appear to schedule tougher games than most private schools. So kudos to UA for being unafraid to test their mettle.

IMO, to say that the game could have gone either way is being overly generous to UA. (If by that one meant anything is possible, then ok. If by that one means who controlled the ball and had the most chances, I would estimate 70% controlled by Boyd at the UA end of the field. UA had probably four decent opportunities to score, with the best being the sole corner kick which resulted in a scrum on which they scored.) Let me put it this way, it became apparent in the waning minutes that UA saw a tie as a win as they held the ball and slowed play. (Also, as a side note, Boyd had a goal called back for offsides which was iffy. The UA goalie tossed the ball toward the center of the field and the UA girls were turning back to reset following the goal when everyone realized that the call had been made.)

The UA girls started fast each half but wore down quickly. It was more apparent at the start of the second half than the first. And while UA subbed, they did not sub in the numbers that Boyd subbed.

With this year's respective teams, out of ten games, I would expect UA to draw 2 and win 2. I.e., UA loses 6 of 10. (Keep in mind UA lost the first game between these two.) And I mean no disrespect. UA is a good scrappy team - but still, how do I rank them against those 5A schools based on that? If a 5A school lost a game to UA would I say that makes them worse than Boyd? Not necessarily.

As to the discussion on this thread, I can't say that I can provide any analysis for the other private schools based on what I saw last night. And that is the problem with mixing classifications. Did ESD play UA? Did they dominate UA? If so, then maybe they should be number 3 or 4? On the other hand, I can get a clearer picture for the teams that play each other regularly.

FYI - my dd will tell you that she would expect SLC to beat UA, yet if all you looked at were last night's results and the results of the Boyd-SLC game, you wouldn't know that.

p.s. The UA parents were a fun group, even if they don't accurately report how games went. Wink

Good game report -- thanks! Based on what I've read in the DMN, sounds like Boyd is pretty loaded this year. Should be interesting come playoff time with all of the quality NTX public HS teams.

No doubt Boyd has a good allotment of talent, but so do most in our district. Having to play Plano West twice will not be fun. I'm sure Allen, Plano, and McKinney will have something to say about things too. It's going to be tough out there!

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Post by soccerbop on 27/01/13, 04:56 pm

Different perspectives I guess. UA fell asleep once early and paid for it. Boyd fell asleep once late and paid for it. In between was maybe 10 SOG for Boyd and around 5 for UA. So let's say Boyd controlled play more (they did) but also that the UA defense was equal to the task (they were)..... well I think that's a close match either team is in a position to win even if the final score is 1-0 Boyd. Funny thing is......if that describes a Plano West-Boyd game, everyone agrees. It only seems to get more complicated when you throw a small TAPPS school into the mix, especially Ursuline (enrollment 800) with all the baggage they carry in the eyes of stronger UIL 5A programs. Then you start hearing things like "we controlled play" or "our ball movement was on another level" or "they'd lose 6 of 10 against us" ----- which does nothing to change the fact that it was a good match between two pretty good teams.
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Post by Sloppy J on 28/01/13, 07:13 am

soccerbop wrote:Different perspectives I guess. UA fell asleep once early and paid for it. Boyd fell asleep once late and paid for it. In between was maybe 10 SOG for Boyd and around 5 for UA. So let's say Boyd controlled play more (they did) but also that the UA defense was equal to the task (they were)..... well I think that's a close match either team is in a position to win even if the final score is 1-0 Boyd. Funny thing is......if that describes a Plano West-Boyd game, everyone agrees. It only seems to get more complicated when you throw a small TAPPS school into the mix, especially Ursuline (enrollment 800) with all the baggage they carry in the eyes of stronger UIL 5A programs. Then you start hearing things like "we controlled play" or "our ball movement was on another level" or "they'd lose 6 of 10 against us" ----- which does nothing to change the fact that it was a good match between two pretty good teams.

UA fields a good team every year. As I previously pointed out, I respect the coach's and team's willingness to line up with the 5As.

Ultimately, I don't think our recollections differ much, just our analysis. (And if you were going to rank privates with the publics, UA is probably the easiest to rank because of their willingness to play decent 5A programs.)

The real point (perhaps lost in my recap of the game) is how does one rank teams of different classifications based on these games? Where does ESD or Greenhill rank based on the UA-Boyd results? Do ESD or Greenhill play UA? Do they play 5As? If so, who?

Finally, I agree with most of the ranking of the 5A programs, although I would probably have SLC at 3 despite the loss and show some love to Sachse because of the reports from parents. But the differences are what make it fun.

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Post by Criss70 on 28/01/13, 08:02 am

Question, are these ranking based on district games? or does this include tournament games as well? The reason why I ask, is that I do not believe that Weatherford has started district play yet. Thanks! Smile
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Post by mudhead on 28/01/13, 12:55 pm

Criss70 wrote:Question, are these ranking based on district games? or does this include tournament games as well? The reason why I ask, is that I do not believe that Weatherford has started district play yet. Thanks! Smile
They have not. Weatherford plays their first district game this Friday at Arlington Bowie. Weatherford has played in three tournaments this year, going 8-3 with a second, a first and a fourth place finish respectively.

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Post by Criss70 on 28/01/13, 01:01 pm

mudhead wrote:
Criss70 wrote:Question, are these ranking based on district games? or does this include tournament games as well? The reason why I ask, is that I do not believe that Weatherford has started district play yet. Thanks! Smile
They have not. Weatherford plays their first district game this Friday at Arlington Bowie. Weatherford has played in three tournaments this year, going 8-3 with a second, a first and a fourth place finish respectively.

So why is this ranking showing them at 4-0-1? Was this for last year? Sorry, I am not trying to pick on Weatherford. Just wanting to understand this ranking. Thanks!
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Post by mudhead on 28/01/13, 01:13 pm

Criss70 wrote:
mudhead wrote:
Criss70 wrote:Question, are these ranking based on district games? or does this include tournament games as well? The reason why I ask, is that I do not believe that Weatherford has started district play yet. Thanks! Smile
They have not. Weatherford plays their first district game this Friday at Arlington Bowie. Weatherford has played in three tournaments this year, going 8-3 with a second, a first and a fourth place finish respectively.

So why is this ranking showing them at 4-0-1? Was this for last year? Sorry, I am not trying to pick on Weatherford. Just wanting to understand this ranking. Thanks!
Don't know exactly. At one point they were 4-0-1, I believe that was a week ago Thursday (the 23rd). Then they went to 7-0-1, then 8-0-3, losing twice this past weekend (they were pretty tired).

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North Texas High School Soccer Rankings As Of January 23, 2013 Empty Re: North Texas High School Soccer Rankings As Of January 23, 2013

Post by Criss70 on 28/01/13, 01:30 pm

mudhead wrote:
Criss70 wrote:
mudhead wrote:
Criss70 wrote:Question, are these ranking based on district games? or does this include tournament games as well? The reason why I ask, is that I do not believe that Weatherford has started district play yet. Thanks! Smile
They have not. Weatherford plays their first district game this Friday at Arlington Bowie. Weatherford has played in three tournaments this year, going 8-3 with a second, a first and a fourth place finish respectively.

So why is this ranking showing them at 4-0-1? Was this for last year? Sorry, I am not trying to pick on Weatherford. Just wanting to understand this ranking. Thanks!
Don't know exactly. At one point they were 4-0-1, I believe that was a week ago Thursday (the 23rd). Then they went to 7-0-1, then 8-0-3, losing twice this past weekend (they were pretty tired).

So we are counting preseason as well as the regular season district play. Got it! cheers
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Post by gooner on 28/01/13, 08:46 pm

From:
elitesoccerreport.com

1/28/13
Texas: 1. Plano West (10-0-0), 2. Westlake (10-0-0), 3. Coppell (9-0-2), 4. Marcus (10-1-1), 5. McKinney Boyd (6-1-3), 6. Southlake Carroll (11-1-0), 7. Hebron (6-0-1), 8. Highland Park (8-0-2), 9. The Woodlands (8-1-1), 10. Prosper (11-0-0), 11. Byron Nelson, 12. Mansfield (7-1-0), 13. Deer Park (5-1-0), 14. Fort Bend Clements (6-2-0), 15. Katy Taylor (10-1-0).
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