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May - Aug 2013 Tournaments for 03's - Complete List with Teams

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Re: May - Aug 2013 Tournaments for 03's - Complete List with Teams

Post by Guest on 09/07/13, 09:48 pm

bwgophers wrote:
silentparent wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
silentparent wrote:
futbollove wrote:
Blank77 wrote:

You can say it as slow as you want, but it isn't true.  My DD's team lost 10 spots in the ranking by skipping these tournaments before QT.  The QT people do not read this board, and they dont pay much attention to league play.  The watch these games in the tournaments and get feedback from coaches.

True, if you are top 5, seeding doesnt matter, but seeding for 6-25 is huge.  My DDs team got seeded poorly, and qualified at 11 - you know what that meant, we played the toughest schedule in the fall of or first season of select - no time to really gel.
If this board or league play doesn't matter, how did your team fall 10 spots? By your logic, there was no ' ranking' or spots prior to Tut and/or Puma.
Sure , you can play Tut and impress (or depress) the committee, get a favorable seed, or a bad seed. But come QT, you are what you are.

how naive, your seed matters a great deal and can make or break you....

90% of the time futbollove is right, 10% of the time SilentParent is right.

lol, i will let that go, but my 10% will be a big kick in the pants to some teams who dis a rankings tournament....

Can you give me the name of the last team that skipped King TuT and Puma, played boys, or played up against U12's and didn't qualify for the division that everyone expected they would?


The Duker with Fusion

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Re: May - Aug 2013 Tournaments for 03's - Complete List with Teams

Post by Guest on 09/07/13, 09:49 pm

bwgophers wrote:
silentparent wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
silentparent wrote:
futbollove wrote:
Blank77 wrote:

You can say it as slow as you want, but it isn't true.  My DD's team lost 10 spots in the ranking by skipping these tournaments before QT.  The QT people do not read this board, and they dont pay much attention to league play.  The watch these games in the tournaments and get feedback from coaches.

True, if you are top 5, seeding doesnt matter, but seeding for 6-25 is huge.  My DDs team got seeded poorly, and qualified at 11 - you know what that meant, we played the toughest schedule in the fall of or first season of select - no time to really gel.
If this board or league play doesn't matter, how did your team fall 10 spots? By your logic, there was no ' ranking' or spots prior to Tut and/or Puma.
Sure , you can play Tut and impress (or depress) the committee, get a favorable seed, or a bad seed. But come QT, you are what you are.

how naive, your seed matters a great deal and can make or break you....

90% of the time futbollove is right, 10% of the time SilentParent is right.

lol, i will let that go, but my 10% will be a big kick in the pants to some teams who dis a rankings tournament....

Can you give me the name of the last team that skipped King TuT and Puma, played boys, or played up against U12's and didn't qualify for the division that everyone expected they would?

My comments were directed more towards sting g and fever...

Guest
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Re: May - Aug 2013 Tournaments for 03's - Complete List with Teams

Post by Guest on 09/07/13, 09:52 pm

silentparent wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
silentparent wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
silentparent wrote:
futbollove wrote:
If this board or league play doesn't matter, how did your team fall 10 spots? By your logic, there was no ' ranking' or spots prior to Tut and/or Puma.
Sure , you can play Tut and impress (or depress) the committee, get a favorable seed, or a bad seed. But come QT, you are what you are.

how naive, your seed matters a great deal and can make or break you....

90% of the time futbollove is right, 10% of the time SilentParent is right.

lol, i will let that go, but my 10% will be a big kick in the pants to some teams who dis a rankings tournament....

Can you give me the name of the last team that skipped King TuT and Puma, played boys, or played up against U12's and didn't qualify for the division that everyone expected they would?

My comments were directed more towards sting g and fever...


Oops, but BW check my validity on the question.

Guest
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Re: May - Aug 2013 Tournaments for 03's - Complete List with Teams

Post by bwgophers on 09/07/13, 10:09 pm

UEFA wrote:
silentparent wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
silentparent wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
silentparent wrote:

how naive, your seed matters a great deal and can make or break you....

90% of the time futbollove is right, 10% of the time SilentParent is right.

lol, i will let that go, but my 10% will be a big kick in the pants to some teams who dis a rankings tournament....

Can you give me the name of the last team that skipped King TuT and Puma, played boys, or played up against U12's and didn't qualify for the division that everyone expected they would?

My comments were directed more towards sting g and fever...


Oops, but BW check my validity on the question.

SP - I'm asking you the question because you seem to be speaking from direct knowledge that Sting G and Fever are taking major risks by not playing either King TuT or Puma.  So obviously there must be teams in recent years that skipped the tune-ups and/or ducked competition and paid for it by getting a poor seed, and ended up not qualifying for the division that most people expected them to.  So please give me the most recent example of a team that this happened to.

UEFA - Sorry, but you shanked the PK.  Dukers '01 Fusion Navy team actually played BOTH King TuT and Puma Cup leading up to '01 QT (for the '01's King Tut was 2 weeks before QT, and Puma was the week before QT).

...and oh by the way, Blank can complain all he wants about Solar Chelsea '01 getting a raw deal, but the facts are that Solar Chelsea '01 was the #10 seed in the '01 QT, and even though that might have led to them having a tougher draw, they still qualified in week #1, and even though that might have led to them having a brutal fall schedule, guess where Solar Chelsea '01 finished in U11? 6th place. Same as their FBR ranking heading into QT. Imagine that.Shocked 


Last edited by bwgophers on 09/07/13, 10:15 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: May - Aug 2013 Tournaments for 03's - Complete List with Teams

Post by Guest on 09/07/13, 10:12 pm

bwgophers wrote:
UEFA wrote:
silentparent wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
silentparent wrote:
bwgophers wrote:

90% of the time futbollove is right, 10% of the time SilentParent is right.

lol, i will let that go, but my 10% will be a big kick in the pants to some teams who dis a rankings tournament....

Can you give me the name of the last team that skipped King TuT and Puma, played boys, or played up against U12's and didn't qualify for the division that everyone expected they would?

My comments were directed more towards sting g and fever...


Oops, but BW check my validity on the question.

SP - I'm asking you the question because you seem to be speaking from direct knowledge that Sting G and Fever are taking major risks by not playing either King TuT or Puma.  So obviously there must be teams in recent years that skipped the tune-ups and/or ducked competition and paid for it by getting a poor seed, and ended up not qualifying for the division that most people expected them to.  So please give me the most recent example of a team that this happened to.

UEFA - Sorry, but you shanked the PK.  Dukers '01 Fusion Navy team actually played BOTH King TuT and Puma Cup leading up to '01 QT (for the '01's King Tut was 2 weeks before QT, and Puma was the week before QT).



Crap, well didn't they struggle in QT?

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Re: May - Aug 2013 Tournaments for 03's - Complete List with Teams

Post by bwgophers on 09/07/13, 10:21 pm

UEFA wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
UEFA wrote:
silentparent wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
silentparent wrote:

lol, i will let that go, but my 10% will be a big kick in the pants to some teams who dis a rankings tournament....

Can you give me the name of the last team that skipped King TuT and Puma, played boys, or played up against U12's and didn't qualify for the division that everyone expected they would?

My comments were directed more towards sting g and fever...


Oops, but BW check my validity on the question.

SP - I'm asking you the question because you seem to be speaking from direct knowledge that Sting G and Fever are taking major risks by not playing either King TuT or Puma.  So obviously there must be teams in recent years that skipped the tune-ups and/or ducked competition and paid for it by getting a poor seed, and ended up not qualifying for the division that most people expected them to.  So please give me the most recent example of a team that this happened to.

UEFA - Sorry, but you shanked the PK.  Dukers '01 Fusion Navy team actually played BOTH King TuT and Puma Cup leading up to '01 QT (for the '01's King Tut was 2 weeks before QT, and Puma was the week before QT).



Crap, well didn't they struggle in QT?

Yes they did, but that team was a shell of their academy heyday due to the 4-5 core players that left and went to Tx. Spirit North in May leading up to QT.

It's also not really relevant to the point I'm making, which is that everyone gets all worked up over the importance of seeding and the importance of having to play TuT or Puma, when the data just flat out doesn't back up the hysteria.

If a coach thinks that the best way to prepare his/her specific team to be playing in top form for QT is to skip the tune-ups, then that is what he/she should do, even if it means getting knocked down a few seeds.  If the team is playing to it's ability, their seeding is going to be irrelevant.


Last edited by bwgophers on 09/07/13, 10:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: May - Aug 2013 Tournaments for 03's - Complete List with Teams

Post by Guest on 09/07/13, 10:22 pm

First off, i think that a team that used guess players a lot, then lost several key players, is taking a risk blowing off a seeding tournament, second fever has no skins on wall and imo does themselves a disservice skipping. Never said what YOU are saying...

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Re: May - Aug 2013 Tournaments for 03's - Complete List with Teams

Post by bwgophers on 09/07/13, 10:26 pm

silentparent wrote:First off, i think that a team that used guess players a lot, then lost several key players, is taking a risk blowing off a seeding tournament, second fever has no skins on wall and imo does themselves a disservice skipping. Never said what YOU are saying...

Then what are you saying? Why is it a risk for these teams to skip TuT and Puma?

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Re: May - Aug 2013 Tournaments for 03's - Complete List with Teams

Post by Guest on 09/07/13, 10:30 pm

bwgophers wrote:
UEFA wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
UEFA wrote:
silentparent wrote:
bwgophers wrote:

Can you give me the name of the last team that skipped King TuT and Puma, played boys, or played up against U12's and didn't qualify for the division that everyone expected they would?

My comments were directed more towards sting g and fever...


Oops, but BW check my validity on the question.

SP - I'm asking you the question because you seem to be speaking from direct knowledge that Sting G and Fever are taking major risks by not playing either King TuT or Puma.  So obviously there must be teams in recent years that skipped the tune-ups and/or ducked competition and paid for it by getting a poor seed, and ended up not qualifying for the division that most people expected them to.  So please give me the most recent example of a team that this happened to.

UEFA - Sorry, but you shanked the PK.  Dukers '01 Fusion Navy team actually played BOTH King TuT and Puma Cup leading up to '01 QT (for the '01's King Tut was 2 weeks before QT, and Puma was the week before QT).



Crap, well didn't they struggle in QT?

Yes they did, but that team was a shell of their academy heyday due to the 4-5 core players that left and went to Tx. Spirit North in May leading up to QT.

It's also not really relevant to the point I'm making, which is that everyone gets all worked up over the importance of seeding and the importance of having to play TuT or Puma, when the data just flat out doesn't back up the hysteria.

If a coach thinks that the best way to prepare his/her specific team to be playing in top form for QT is to skip the tune-ups, then that is what he/she should do, even if it means getting knocked down a few seeds.  If the team is playing to it's ability, their seeding is going to be irrelevant.


If I remember QT correctly, it was a month of pure hell and luckily we were successful in the first weekend of QT. I could see a coach resting players. As for sting I would imagine that teams entering the QT tournament are on a intense training program through Crull fitness to get ready.

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Re: May - Aug 2013 Tournaments for 03's - Complete List with Teams

Post by Guest on 09/07/13, 10:42 pm

bwgophers wrote:
silentparent wrote:First off, i think that a team that used guess players a lot, then lost several key players, is taking a risk blowing off a seeding tournament, second fever has no skins on wall and imo does themselves a disservice skipping. Never said what YOU are saying...

Then what are you saying?  Why is it a risk for these teams to skip TuT and Puma?  

Because frankly sting g is not a lock imo for a 5 seed given the amount of guess players and turnover of key players. As you know the higher your seed the better chance for an upset. Fever could have helped themselves up a few spots. This is as plain as i can make it. Maybe im right maybe not but thats my take on it...

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Re: May - Aug 2013 Tournaments for 03's - Complete List with Teams

Post by SD69 on 09/07/13, 10:52 pm

If you know you have a good team and are not sure that the seeding committee knows, then they should play the tune-ups to get a good seed. It's always better to play a team seeded lower than you than a top seeded team. Outside of that, not sure that tuneups are necessary unless you need some tuning up.
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Re: May - Aug 2013 Tournaments for 03's - Complete List with Teams

Post by bwgophers on 10/07/13, 12:16 am

silentparent wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
silentparent wrote:First off, i think that a team that used guess players a lot, then lost several key players, is taking a risk blowing off a seeding tournament, second fever has no skins on wall and imo does themselves a disservice skipping. Never said what YOU are saying...

Then what are you saying?  Why is it a risk for these teams to skip TuT and Puma?  

Because frankly sting g is not a lock imo for a 5 seed given the amount of guess players and turnover of key players. As you know the higher your seed the better chance for an upset. Fever could have helped themselves up a few spots. This is as plain as i can make it. Maybe im right maybe not but thats my take on it...

...and maybe you will be right about one of these teams.  However, "maybe im right maybe not" is a much different tone than "how naive, your seed matters a great deal and can make or break you...."

Which is the point I was trying to make.  Every year, the incoming U11 parents get all worked up over QT seeding and how teams that duck competition by skipping the tune up tournaments, or playing boys, or playing up in age, are going to be sorry that they did that.  They make statements that imply with certainty that this has and will happen.  The problem is, recent data doesn't support this.

Here's what happened in the '01's:

Solar Red '01 - Played in U11 Boys division in TuT.  FBR #1, QT seed #1.  Qualified 1st weekend. Finished U11 in 3rd place in D1.

Solar Chelsea '01 - Skipped TuT and Puma.  FBR #6, QT seed #10.  Qualified 1st weekend.  Finished U11 in 6th place in D1

FC Dallas '01 West - Skipped TuT and Puma.  FBR #10, QT Seed #11.  Qualified for D1 in 2nd weekend.  Finished U11 in 16th place in D1.

No other teams ranked higher than #34 in FBR, or seeded higher than #36 for the QT skipped both TuT and Puma, and none of these teams qualified for LHGCL, as would be expected.

Here's what happened in the '02's:

FC Dallas '02 Premier - Played up against U12 Girls in TuT.  FBR #1.  QT Seed #1.  Qualified week 1.  Finished U11 in 2nd place in D1.

Solar Chelsea '02 Red - Played up against U12 Girls in Puma.  FBR #2.  QT Seed #3.  Qualified week 1.  Finished U11 in 5th place in D1.

Dallas Texans '02 South - Played up against U12 Girls in Puma.  FBR #3.  QT Seed #4.  Qualified week 1.  Finished U11 in 3rd place in D1.

Fever '02 Red - Skipped Tut and Puma.  FBR #8, QT Seed #6.  Qualified in Week #1.  Finished U11 in 11th place in D1.

Waco Blast '02 - Skipped TuT and Puma.  FBR #12, QT Seed #9.  Qualified in Week #1.  Finished U11 in 16th place in D1.

Solar Chelsea '02 Gio - Skipped TuT and Puma.  FBR #7, QT Seed #14.  Qualified for D1 in week 2.  Finished U11 in 4th place in D1.

No other team ranked higher than #34 in FBR or seeded higher than #35 in QT skipped both TuT and Puma.  None of these teams qualified as expected.

So frankly, I can't even answer my own question, because it hasn't happened in either of the last 2 years and I don't have the history for the '00's and before.

Will it happen this year?  Maybe.  I don't think Sting G has anything to worry about.  Fever?  Maybe a little more so, but recent history (even for their '02 team) suggests that they will be just fine and will qualify for D1.

There will be 1 or 2 teams that get significantly over-seeded, take advantage of that, and qualify higher than they probably should.

There will be 1 or 2 teams that get significantly over-seeded, play to their historical level, and qualify right were they should have based on their historical play, unable to take advantage of the favorable seed.

There will be 1 or 2 of teams that get significantly under-seeded, are unable to overcome it, and miss out qualifying where they should.

There will be 1 or 2 teams that get significantly under-seeded, play to their historical level, overcome the poor seed, and qualify where they should have based on their historical play.

There will be ~35-40 teams that are seeded very close to where they should be, and will qualify/not qualify, consistent with their seeding.

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Re: May - Aug 2013 Tournaments for 03's - Complete List with Teams

Post by GrandTXSoccer on 10/07/13, 11:31 am

Great post BW, pretty much sums up qualifying tournaments and seeding.

I do think futbal brings up a good point about rankings and seedings. Let's be honest, besides the FBR and then folks posting their opinions about seeds based on their DD's team experience there really is no ranking to fall in or jump up in. LH doesn't have a ranking system (at least none that I'm aware of) prior to seeding for this tournament. So like others have said, this tournament will show you exactly what you are. I keep refering to the Top 3 but let's be honest, beyond SRSA who's to say where anyone should be ranked. Maybe LH will look at some of these teams and think they should be the #2 and #3 seeds over DTS and LP Elite. From past experience on this board I doubt you will hear a peep out of these two teams if it happens, they will simply show up and play whomever and most likely beat whomever. The seeds to them don't really matter as long as you don't place them in the same bracket with each other or SRSA. Now for the rest of the teams I bet the vast majority of the bubble teams are hoping like heck they don't have to face them but what I always told my DD was that it only takes one game, one game where the ball bounces your way and poof you have yourself a win in a situation that maybe you shouldn't.

I can definitely understand the desire for teams in that 7-20 range to want to play in qualifying tournaments because for the most part when the top 4 are in a tournament those teams in that 7-20 range don't often have much success so they don't have a ton to hang their hat on come seeding time. So if they can have a great tournament that weekend then maybe they jump from 12 to 7 or 18 to 10, at that point it can make a huge difference. However I always caution folks that get excited about a team that consitently has been a middle of the road team and has never beaten one of the top teams that ends up making DI, just be careful what you wish for because the law of averages generally catches up after a while and there's nothing fun about scoring 10 goals in 19 games and giving up 40.


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Re: May - Aug 2013 Tournaments for 03's - Complete List with Teams

Post by herradura on 10/07/13, 12:44 pm

This is fun -
Approximately how seeding would look if we went by the last FBR (Based on 48 teams)

Pool1
SRSA
FCD Copa
GSSC Thunder Black
Uprising DeFeeters

Pool2
LP Elite
DT Barakat
Rush 03
DT FTW Rambo

Pool3
DTSouth
Sparta
Evolution
Waco Blast 03

Pool4
FCD Gold
Sting Central Sanchez
Odyssey Gold
Solar Chelsea Armstrong

Pool5
Sting 03
Cosmos
FWFC White
Fever Red

Pool6
Solar Gio
Fever Black
Sting Central Skaiffe
FCD East Perez

Pool7
Defeeters 03
FCD Suarez
Mustangs
Sting North Garrett

Pool8
FCD Premier
Sting Goodman
Ayses Gold
Mansfield Cyclones

Pool9
Liverpool Rush
Liverpool Barnes
Andromeda Grado
FCD Hollis

Pool10
Mutiny
DT Moreno
TFC Larry
Warriors 03

Pool11
Sting West
Sting Hilton
Odyssey Blue
LP Clemence

Pool12
LP Keegan
FWFC Black
Triumph FC Aguero
FC Premier
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Re: May - Aug 2013 Tournaments for 03's - Complete List with Teams

Post by bwgophers on 10/07/13, 12:50 pm

You're right Herradura, this is always fun...  but, just a note that historically, the seeding committee has avoided placing teams from the same club in the same pools in week 1 of the QT.  So you will almost certainly NOT see a matchup of LP Rush/LP Barnes or Sting West/Sting Hilton, etc. in week 1.

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Re: May - Aug 2013 Tournaments for 03's - Complete List with Teams

Post by herradura on 10/07/13, 12:55 pm

bwgophers wrote:You're right Herradura, this is always fun...  but, just a note that historically, the seeding committee has avoided placing teams from the same club in the same pools in week 1 of the QT.  So you will almost certainly NOT see a matchup of LP Rush/LP Barnes or Sting West/Sting Hilton, etc. in week 1.

My take on this is that if your team is ranked 6 or lower, nothing can be taken for granted...
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Re: May - Aug 2013 Tournaments for 03's - Complete List with Teams

Post by Guest on 10/07/13, 12:59 pm

Do we know if any of those 48 teams no longer exist?

Solar Gio - right?

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Re: May - Aug 2013 Tournaments for 03's - Complete List with Teams

Post by SolarPower00 on 10/07/13, 01:12 pm

Not only will some of these top 48 not be around for QT
(Solar Gio) but....there will be more than one team ranked outside of the FBR top50 that will throw their hat(s) in the ring as well
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Re: May - Aug 2013 Tournaments for 03's - Complete List with Teams

Post by Guest on 10/07/13, 02:00 pm

Is their a new applied list for the Puma Cup?

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Re: May - Aug 2013 Tournaments for 03's - Complete List with Teams

Post by Guest on 10/07/13, 02:07 pm

Started from the bottom wrote:Is their a new applied list for the Puma Cup?

http://www.gotsport.com/events/teamlist.asp?eventid=32528&showall=true

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Re: May - Aug 2013 Tournaments for 03's - Complete List with Teams

Post by herradura on 10/07/13, 02:11 pm

Started from the bottom wrote:Is their a new applied list for the Puma Cup?

Is LP Barnes sitting out?
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Re: May - Aug 2013 Tournaments for 03's - Complete List with Teams

Post by Guest on 10/07/13, 02:13 pm

herradura wrote:
Started from the bottom wrote:Is their a new applied list for the Puma Cup?

Is LP Barnes sitting out?


No ma'am!!!!!

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Re: May - Aug 2013 Tournaments for 03's - Complete List with Teams

Post by blastit on 10/07/13, 02:40 pm

What about Texans Barakat-Evans?

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Re: May - Aug 2013 Tournaments for 03's - Complete List with Teams

Post by GrandTXSoccer on 11/07/13, 09:10 am

Good question, the last thing I see from them is entry in the Cowtown back in May and then nothing since. I'd hate to see them not make, I always enjoyed watching them play. Always gave great effort.

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Re: May - Aug 2013 Tournaments for 03's - Complete List with Teams

Post by SolarPower00 on 11/07/13, 10:19 am

They are now Dallas Texans 03G Red South and playing Puma
Several teams have taken on fancy new names
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Re: May - Aug 2013 Tournaments for 03's - Complete List with Teams

Post by DTDad03 on 11/07/13, 10:20 am

Thanks GrandTXSoccer.
It's posted now on the site under DT Red South.
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