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03 Human Rankings - top 20 + Dark Horses

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Re: 03 Human Rankings - top 20 + Dark Horses

Post by Gunner9 on 05/06/13, 04:21 pm

The "exposure" angle reminds me of a story.

A few years back a friend whose son was a good basketball player ran into Bobby Knight at the HOF dinner in Springfield. The kid was in 8th grade and had already reached 6'6". He corners BK and starts extolling his kid's prowess. Knight cuts him short saying, "Not to be rude, but I'm Bobby Knight. If your kid was THAT good, you wouldn't have to tell me about him. I'd already know"

cheers

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Re: 03 Human Rankings - top 20 + Dark Horses

Post by Guest on 05/06/13, 04:37 pm

TheWolf wrote:"I've been around select sports in NTX long enough to have seen enough cases like the one being discussed here, and they almost always work out the same way"

I'll bite....how does it normally end up? Tell the parents what to expect based on your experience? Honestly would like to know.

Simple, if the kid is capable of playing up in age and able to contribute/excel in the older age group, and the rules allow for it, that's where the kid will end up playing because the player's long- term development is better served by being challenged against older kids than dominating kids their own age. Once they start playing up, they rarely go back. Even if that means passing on a chance to be on a "national contender" in their age group.

Now, might the player(s) in question "drop back" to play with the '03 team in some big tournaments (i.e. Surf Cup, Vegas Cup, etc.)? Sure. But If they are as good as people are saying, I'd be surprised to see them playing a significant amount of their games against '03's locally here in NTX.

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Re: 03 Human Rankings - top 20 + Dark Horses

Post by Zidane on 05/06/13, 06:23 pm

I did hear a few years ago that a famous football player (#94 + 5 superbowl rings)had his daughter play up; however, I never asked him why he made that decision.
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Re: 03 Human Rankings - top 20 + Dark Horses

Post by Gunner9 on 05/06/13, 06:57 pm

Zidane wrote:I did hear a few years ago that a famous football player (#94 + 5 superbowl rings)had his daughter play up; however, I never asked him why he made that decision.

If a kid can score regularly for the U17 National Team as a 14-yr old, playing up probably makes sense.
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Re: 03 Human Rankings - top 20 + Dark Horses

Post by Guest on 05/06/13, 07:15 pm

Zidane wrote:I did hear a few years ago that a famous football player (#94 + 5 superbowl rings)had his daughter play up; however, I never asked him why he made that decision.

When you see the size of her and strength no need even asking..

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Re: 03 Human Rankings - top 20 + Dark Horses

Post by herradura on 05/06/13, 07:19 pm

Tokenone wrote:
Zidane wrote:I did hear a few years ago that a famous football player (#94 + 5 superbowl rings)had his daughter play up; however, I never asked him why he made that decision.

When you see the size of her and strength no need even asking..

So that is who DM(W) is all this time... #94, who would have guessed. Wait, he doesn't have 5 superbowls??

OK - CH wore that number as well... got it.
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Re: 03 Human Rankings - top 20 + Dark Horses

Post by PopTart on 05/06/13, 09:36 pm

The team has more than "2" kids that can play up at the '02 level. In fact, I'd say there are 5-6 kids that can play at that level and excel and play at a very high level. These girls are special players. Saying that only two are capable is an injustice to the other girls. If you haven't seen these girls play, come out to watch them. It's a treat.

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Re: 03 Human Rankings - top 20 + Dark Horses

Post by GrandTXSoccer on 05/06/13, 10:04 pm

There's probably 30+ 03 girls that can play up and be just fine. The difference with these two, at least in my opinion, right now can play up and be in the top 5 at that age. Honestly though, being the top 10 year old is a nice thing for parents to brag about to their friends but in reality it doesn't really mean all that much. Get back to me when they are 13 and they have all gone through their growing spurts.

There is no doubt there are other girls on the SRSA team that are outstanding young ladies and very good soccer players. However it's not at all a coincidence that everyone that watches them play come away with the same impression, the three girls up top are the proverbial straws that stir the drink. Those two girls moving up will no doubt be good for the 5 or 6 others to step up and show what they can do. Do not take this as a knock on any of the other girls, I think any coach out there would love to have any one of them and they'd all find a starting job.

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Re: 03 Human Rankings - top 20 + Dark Horses

Post by Joe scafone on 06/06/13, 06:25 am

All of y'all drive me insane with this "playing up" stuff. My Gawd, think about it. In a few years most of these kids will play multiple age groups if they play in MS or HS. We act like this is earth shattering news.

What I'd like to see is SRSA or these 2 players play in the boys Classic league. That would be something to talk about.


Last edited by Joe scafone on 06/06/13, 06:27 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Frickin iPhone.)

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Re: 03 Human Rankings - top 20 + Dark Horses

Post by hombre on 06/06/13, 07:23 am

This playing up is good news for the rest of SRSA 03 players cuz it gives other girls a chance to become leaders of the team. It gives girls that didn't start more chances to start. It is good news for Solar Red 02 because they were a solid team but short in goals scored needing something special to challenge FCD Premier 02 and Texans Higg 02. In 02 there will now be three clear top teams to beat, unless the studs from FCD and Texans use the same rule change to split time in the 01 division. There are at least 4 players in 02 that would be big impact players in 01. And top teams in 03 feel they have a better chance against SRSA 03 when the studs are off in 02. Its all good.
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Re: 03 Human Rankings - top 20 + Dark Horses

Post by Guest on 06/06/13, 08:44 am

I'd like to go back to the question that I posed a couple of pages ago...

Is this new rule an NTSSA rule, or an LHGCL rule?

I just checked both the NTSSA and LHGCL rules and bylaws posted on their websites, and see no mention of these changes. Seems a bit surprising that it's less than a month before contracts are signed, yet I can't find any official documentation of what amounts to be a fairly substantial change in the rules that could affect how teams approach their roster formation for the coming year.

Tokenone - you seem to be in the know about this. Can you shed any more light?

Tokenone wrote:

1. They are passing a new rule ie:starting this season a player can be rostered on a 03,02,01 dont matter and play up a age group in a weekend as long as its interclub. they cant play there 03' and 02'games in the same weekend.Ask your coach about this.


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Re: 03 Human Rankings - top 20 + Dark Horses

Post by 03soccerdad on 06/06/13, 08:46 am

The final outcome, for any girl who is good enough and dedicated to stay in the game, is playing on a mixed aged team and with multiple coaches and coaching styles along the way.

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Re: 03 Human Rankings - top 20 + Dark Horses

Post by Guest on 06/06/13, 09:12 am

bwgophers wrote:I'd like to go back to the question that I posed a couple of pages ago...

Is this new rule an NTSSA rule, or an LHGCL rule?

I just checked both the NTSSA and LHGCL rules and bylaws posted on their websites, and see no mention of these changes. Seems a bit surprising that it's less than a month before contracts are signed, yet I can't find any official documentation of what amounts to be a fairly substantial change in the rules that could affect how teams approach their roster formation for the coming year.

Tokenone - you seem to be in the know about this. Can you shed any more light?

Tokenone wrote:

1. They are passing a new rule ie:starting this season a player can be rostered on a 03,02,01 dont matter and play up a age group in a weekend as long as its interclub. they cant play there 03' and 02'games in the same weekend.Ask your coach about this.


Nope no more insite, just what ive heard.If the new rule doesnt pass then it looks like some kids will be signing contracts with older age groups.I personally hope it will pass. it will benifit alot kids.

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Re: 03 Human Rankings - top 20 + Dark Horses

Post by Blank77 on 06/06/13, 09:33 am

Tokenone wrote:
bwgophers wrote:I'd like to go back to the question that I posed a couple of pages ago...

Is this new rule an NTSSA rule, or an LHGCL rule?

I just checked both the NTSSA and LHGCL rules and bylaws posted on their websites, and see no mention of these changes. Seems a bit surprising that it's less than a month before contracts are signed, yet I can't find any official documentation of what amounts to be a fairly substantial change in the rules that could affect how teams approach their roster formation for the coming year.

Tokenone - you seem to be in the know about this. Can you shed any more light?

Tokenone wrote:

1. They are passing a new rule ie:starting this season a player can be rostered on a 03,02,01 dont matter and play up a age group in a weekend as long as its interclub. they cant play there 03' and 02'games in the same weekend.Ask your coach about this.


Nope no more insite, just what ive heard.If the new rule doesnt pass then it looks like some kids will be signing contracts with older age groups.I personally hope it will pass. it will benifit alot kids.

I don't know about benefitting a lot of kids, maybe some clubs. If a girl is good enough to play up a year, it doesn't benefit her too much to also play at age. Also, it would take spots and play time away from other girls. It may even become detrimental to the teams, as chemistry starts getting very important as the talent gap will start closing fast and if the lineup changes week to week it may be hard on the "team."
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Re: 03 Human Rankings - top 20 + Dark Horses

Post by herradura on 06/06/13, 09:36 am

bwgophers wrote:I'd like to go back to the question that I posed a couple of pages ago...

Is this new rule an NTSSA rule, or an LHGCL rule?

I just checked both the NTSSA and LHGCL rules and bylaws posted on their websites, and see no mention of these changes. Seems a bit surprising that it's less than a month before contracts are signed, yet I can't find any official documentation of what amounts to be a fairly substantial change in the rules that could affect how teams approach their roster formation for the coming year.

Tokenone - you seem to be in the know about this. Can you shed any more light?

Tokenone wrote:

1. They are passing a new rule ie:starting this season a player can be rostered on a 03,02,01 dont matter and play up a age group in a weekend as long as its interclub. they cant play there 03' and 02'games in the same weekend.Ask your coach about this.


Exactly why I underlined proposed rule change at the beginning of this thread... It seems certain people have a way of selling a "win-win dream" to parents before the details are all sorted out. Interesting it also coincides with the month leading up to signing day...
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Re: 03 Human Rankings - top 20 + Dark Horses

Post by GrandTXSoccer on 06/06/13, 09:52 am

I sure hope no one is expecting this proposed rule change to equate to more playing time for their DD. Honestly, if you are hoping that girls currently on your team move on so your DD can get more playing time then I've got some ocean front property in Carrollton I can sell you real cheap.

It's select soccer and these clubs want to win. Here's what will most likely happen if the proposed rule change happens. A LH game against a lower ranked team and the girls play up in 02, your DD plays. A LH game against a top team and your DD rides the pine while the stars come back to assure victory. It sucks but it's the reality, anyone selling something else is looking out for the club, not your DD.

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Re: 03 Human Rankings - top 20 + Dark Horses

Post by Guest on 06/06/13, 09:55 am

herradura wrote:
bwgophers wrote:I'd like to go back to the question that I posed a couple of pages ago...

Is this new rule an NTSSA rule, or an LHGCL rule?

I just checked both the NTSSA and LHGCL rules and bylaws posted on their websites, and see no mention of these changes. Seems a bit surprising that it's less than a month before contracts are signed, yet I can't find any official documentation of what amounts to be a fairly substantial change in the rules that could affect how teams approach their roster formation for the coming year.

Tokenone - you seem to be in the know about this. Can you shed any more light?

Tokenone wrote:

1. They are passing a new rule ie:starting this season a player can be rostered on a 03,02,01 dont matter and play up a age group in a weekend as long as its interclub. they cant play there 03' and 02'games in the same weekend.Ask your coach about this.


Exactly why I underlined proposed rule change at the beginning of this thread... It seems certain people have a way selling a "dream" to parents before the details are all sorted out. Interesting it also coincides with the month leading up to signing day...

Count me in your court as a skeptic on this rule change Herradura.

I see no reason why NTSSA would change their rules regarding rostering, so if the rule change came anywhere, you would think it would have to come from LHGCL.

I don't hear some kind of huge universal outcry for such a rule needing to be in place, so why would LHGCL suddenly allow what amounts to guest play in league games when they never have in the past? Especially given the fact that it would complicate the logistics of game day rosters. Did everyone submit the proper paperwork ahead of time for guests? Can the players not play on two different teams on the same day? Same weekend? Same week? What constitues a soccer "week"? What happens if a game gets rescheduled due to rainout?

Sounds to me like it's just another wild hare rumor along the lines of SRSA '03 being given an exepmtion to allow the team to play in LHGCL when they were U10, SRSA '03 trying to qualify for U13 D3 instead of U11 D1 this year, FC Dallas '03 Premier skipping LHGCL all together at U11 in order to go play some kind of Jr. ECNL circuit, and so on, and so on...

I could be always be wrong, but this just doesn't pass my sniff test... Suspect Suspect Suspect

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Re: 03 Human Rankings - top 20 + Dark Horses

Post by herradura on 06/06/13, 09:55 am

GrandTXSoccer wrote:I sure hope no one is expecting this proposed rule change to equate to more playing time for their DD. Honestly, if you are hoping that girls currently on your team move on so your DD can get more playing time then I've got some ocean front property in Carrollton I can sell you real cheap.

It's select soccer and these clubs want to win. Here's what will most likely happen if the proposed rule change happens. A LH game against a lower ranked team and the girls play up in 02, your DD plays. A LH game against a top team and your DD rides the pine while the stars come back to assure victory. It sucks but it's the reality, anyone selling something else is looking out for the club, not your DD.

cheers Grandtx gets it!!
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Re: 03 Human Rankings - top 20 + Dark Horses

Post by Guest on 06/06/13, 10:02 am

GrandTXSoccer wrote:I sure hope no one is expecting this proposed rule change to equate to more playing time for their DD. Honestly, if you are hoping that girls currently on your team move on so your DD can get more playing time then I've got some ocean front property in Carrollton I can sell you real cheap.

It's select soccer and these clubs want to win. Here's what will most likely happen if the proposed rule change happens. A LH game against a lower ranked team and the girls play up in 02, your DD plays. A LH game against a top team and your DD rides the pine while the stars come back to assure victory. It sucks but it's the reality, anyone selling something else is looking out for the club, not your DD.


This proposed rule change is not to benefit the girls that don't get much time on their regular team. It is designed for the exceptional players to be able to play with their regular aged team and to also have an opportunity to play up and get more of a challenge. The collateral effects of the change do not seem like they were a concern and the rule is made for the benefit of a few standout players to help with their development.

I don't have problem with it, if it is true.


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Re: 03 Human Rankings - top 20 + Dark Horses

Post by GrandTXSoccer on 06/06/13, 10:12 am

I have no problem with the rule, I'm simply trying to shed some light on how the scenario will most likely play out for other girls effected by this rule. It seems like most of the talk had been about girls playing up and not how it will effect the team staying behind.

I have zero doubt this has been sold as a win win for everyone but the reality is someone is going to end up being hurt by it. Heck I don't blame anyone selling it as a win win situation because I realize the coaches work for a club and that's where their bread is buttered. I just see it happen to many times where #'s 14,15,&16 on a roster buy into the line of thinking hook line and sinker only to be frustrated for a year and their DD unhappy.

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Re: 03 Human Rankings - top 20 + Dark Horses

Post by Gunner9 on 06/06/13, 10:17 am

RunsLikeWind wrote:


This proposed rule change is not to benefit the girls that don't get much time on their regular team. It is designed for the exceptional players to be able to play with their regular aged team and to also have an opportunity to play up and get more of a challenge. The collateral effects of the change do not seem like they were a concern and the rule is made for the benefit of a few standout players to help with their development.

I don't have problem with it, if it is true.


The exceptional players can play up and get more of a challenge on a full-time basis. The only benefit to them "also" getting to play true age group would be for the club, not the kids.
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Re: 03 Human Rankings - top 20 + Dark Horses

Post by Guest on 06/06/13, 10:21 am

RunsLikeWind wrote:
GrandTXSoccer wrote:I sure hope no one is expecting this proposed rule change to equate to more playing time for their DD. Honestly, if you are hoping that girls currently on your team move on so your DD can get more playing time then I've got some ocean front property in Carrollton I can sell you real cheap.

It's select soccer and these clubs want to win. Here's what will most likely happen if the proposed rule change happens. A LH game against a lower ranked team and the girls play up in 02, your DD plays. A LH game against a top team and your DD rides the pine while the stars come back to assure victory. It sucks but it's the reality, anyone selling something else is looking out for the club, not your DD.


This proposed rule change is not to benefit the girls that don't get much time on their regular team. It is designed for the exceptional players to be able to play with their regular aged team and to also have an opportunity to play up and get more of a challenge. The collateral effects of the change do not seem like they were a concern and the rule is made for the benefit of a few standout players to help with their development.

I don't have problem with it, if it is true.


...and again, it doesn't make sense to me why LHGCL would make a fundamental rule change that alters "roster integrity" for league play and complicates their game day/paperwork and logistics, all in order to address the needs of 1 or 2 % of their players?

The rules already afford those exceptional players the opportunity to play up in age. They just have to commit to do it for the entire league season. If players only need that challenge on occasion, there's opportunity to do that in tournament play, or even ODP for that matter.

Please don't misinterpret what I am saying as being for or against such a rule. All I am saying is that I don't believe you will see such a rule change because it just doesn't make sense for LHGCL or NTSSA to alter and complicate a system that works well for 98% of the players, in order to cater to 1-2% of the players. Therefore, I don't see it happening.


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Re: 03 Human Rankings - top 20 + Dark Horses

Post by Guest on 06/06/13, 10:22 am

Gunner9 wrote:
RunsLikeWind wrote:


This proposed rule change is not to benefit the girls that don't get much time on their regular team. It is designed for the exceptional players to be able to play with their regular aged team and to also have an opportunity to play up and get more of a challenge. The collateral effects of the change do not seem like they were a concern and the rule is made for the benefit of a few standout players to help with their development.

I don't have problem with it, if it is true.


The exceptional players can play up and get more of a challenge on a full-time basis. The only benefit to them "also" getting to play true age group would be for the club, not the kids.


True, but if the exceptional player would only be a 10th or so player on the team an age group higher but the #1 player on a team her own age group, this makes sense. LEt her play her own age group for tough games and shine and then let her try out some older age games, she how she does and get a real challenge. She doesn't need to do it on a fulltime basis because she may not make quite the impact she does at her own age and may not get to play the full game. This way, she can maintan 100% game time on her own age group and get extra time playing up.

Of course, as I said, this is all about the one or two girls that can do this and the effects on the regular team are an afterthought. As for players 14, 15 and 16, they probably will not see much time when the girl is gone, I would agree wtih that. Others would simply play more, or they may even get cut to make room for a more impactful player.


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Re: 03 Human Rankings - top 20 + Dark Horses

Post by Guest on 06/06/13, 10:24 am

bwgophers wrote:
RunsLikeWind wrote:
GrandTXSoccer wrote:I sure hope no one is expecting this proposed rule change to equate to more playing time for their DD. Honestly, if you are hoping that girls currently on your team move on so your DD can get more playing time then I've got some ocean front property in Carrollton I can sell you real cheap.

It's select soccer and these clubs want to win. Here's what will most likely happen if the proposed rule change happens. A LH game against a lower ranked team and the girls play up in 02, your DD plays. A LH game against a top team and your DD rides the pine while the stars come back to assure victory. It sucks but it's the reality, anyone selling something else is looking out for the club, not your DD.


This proposed rule change is not to benefit the girls that don't get much time on their regular team. It is designed for the exceptional players to be able to play with their regular aged team and to also have an opportunity to play up and get more of a challenge. The collateral effects of the change do not seem like they were a concern and the rule is made for the benefit of a few standout players to help with their development.

I don't have problem with it, if it is true.


...and again, it doesn't make sense to me why LHGCL would make a fundamental rule change that alters "roster integrity" for league play and complicates their game day/paperwork and logistics, all in order to address the needs of 1 or 2 % of their players?

The rules already afford those exceptional players the opportunity to play up in age. They just have to commit to do it for the entire league season. If players only need that challenge on occasion, there's opportunity to do that in tournament play, or even ODP for that matter.

Please don't misinterpret what I am saying as being for or against such a rule. All I am saying is that I don't believe you will see such a rule change because it just doesn't make sense for LHGCL or NTSSA to alter and complicate a system that works well for 98% of the players, in order to cater to 1-2% of the players. Therefore, I don't see it happening.



If the clubs want it, which I think they do, it will happen. The league answers to the clubs.

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Re: 03 Human Rankings - top 20 + Dark Horses

Post by Guest on 06/06/13, 10:25 am

RunsLikeWind wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
RunsLikeWind wrote:
GrandTXSoccer wrote:I sure hope no one is expecting this proposed rule change to equate to more playing time for their DD. Honestly, if you are hoping that girls currently on your team move on so your DD can get more playing time then I've got some ocean front property in Carrollton I can sell you real cheap.

It's select soccer and these clubs want to win. Here's what will most likely happen if the proposed rule change happens. A LH game against a lower ranked team and the girls play up in 02, your DD plays. A LH game against a top team and your DD rides the pine while the stars come back to assure victory. It sucks but it's the reality, anyone selling something else is looking out for the club, not your DD.


This proposed rule change is not to benefit the girls that don't get much time on their regular team. It is designed for the exceptional players to be able to play with their regular aged team and to also have an opportunity to play up and get more of a challenge. The collateral effects of the change do not seem like they were a concern and the rule is made for the benefit of a few standout players to help with their development.

I don't have problem with it, if it is true.


...and again, it doesn't make sense to me why LHGCL would make a fundamental rule change that alters "roster integrity" for league play and complicates their game day/paperwork and logistics, all in order to address the needs of 1 or 2 % of their players?

The rules already afford those exceptional players the opportunity to play up in age. They just have to commit to do it for the entire league season. If players only need that challenge on occasion, there's opportunity to do that in tournament play, or even ODP for that matter.

Please don't misinterpret what I am saying as being for or against such a rule. All I am saying is that I don't believe you will see such a rule change because it just doesn't make sense for LHGCL or NTSSA to alter and complicate a system that works well for 98% of the players, in order to cater to 1-2% of the players. Therefore, I don't see it happening.



If the clubs want it, which I think they do, it will happen. The league answers to the clubs.

I'll buy you a drink when it does.

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Re: 03 Human Rankings - top 20 + Dark Horses

Post by Gunner9 on 06/06/13, 10:32 am

RunsLikeWind wrote:


True, but if the exceptional player would only be a 10th or so player on the team an age group higher but the #1 player on a team her own age group, this makes sense. LEt her play her own age group for tough games and shine and then let her try out some older age games, she how she does and get a real challenge. She doesn't need to do it on a fulltime basis because she may not make quite the impact she does at her own age and may not get to play the full game. This way, she can maintan 100% game time on her own age group and get extra time playing up.

Of course, as I said, this is all about the one or two girls that can do this and the effects on the regular team are an afterthought. As for players 14, 15 and 16, they probably will not see much time when the girl is gone, I would agree wtih that. Others would simply play more, or they may even get cut to make room for a more impactful player.



An exceptional player is not going to be "10th or so" playing up. Unless, of course, you and I have a different understanding of what exceptional means.

And, as gophers so eloquently states, the avenues for her to play up already exist. I see absolutely no benefit to this change other than to the clubs. But then I never thought they would allow the roster maneuvering for State Cup that they now allow.
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