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Question about ODP coach etiquette

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Question about ODP coach etiquette

Post by TripDDs on 19/06/13, 09:03 pm

Should a DDs ODP coach report any information, good or bad, back to your DDs club coach?
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Re: Question about ODP coach etiquette

Post by InaB on 20/06/13, 10:42 am

Well, that is a good question. Personally, I think that it would be good to have a player evaluation sheet presented each year spring and fall that would go to the player and player parents, but not to the coach.  As a parent, I want to know how my DD is doing and where she can improve.

ODP isn't supposed to care or specifically know what club you are from (hence the notices not to wear club gear or bring club bags). Even though most of the coaches eventually know who you play for. They are supposed to be helping you from an ODP perspective.
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Re: Question about ODP coach etiquette

Post by textigerfan on 20/06/13, 10:53 am

ODP and Club should be separate.  I am not sure why an ODP coach would contact a player's club coach.  If that where to happen with my DD without my knowledge and then I found out, I would certainly inquire both coaches to determine the reasoning for the contact.  It could be all positive, but I would still want to know.
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Re: Question about ODP coach etiquette

Post by jabberjaw on 20/06/13, 11:07 am

i mean should your personal trainer contact your coach to tell them how you are doing?  that doesn't make sense, so i don't think it makes sense to have ODP coach contact your coach.  They are separate and should remain separate and i agree with textigerfan
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Re: Question about ODP coach etiquette

Post by Gunner9 on 20/06/13, 11:16 am

Don't know anything about the specific inquiry that started this thread, but ODP coaches have always called club coaches. It's a small world.

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Re: Question about ODP coach etiquette

Post by Guest on 20/06/13, 11:23 am

Gunner9 wrote:Don't know anything about the specific inquiry that started this thread, but ODP coaches have always called club coaches.  It's a small world.


you would have to be out of your mind to feed a club coach bad feedback from odp.....

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Re: Question about ODP coach etiquette

Post by voiceofreason on 20/06/13, 11:29 am

Which is really interesting given they tell us all to avoid anythying that has club logos to keep the ODP experience "soccer pure" yet they go around at camp asking your DDs what club they play for:?:

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Re: Question about ODP coach etiquette

Post by InaB on 20/06/13, 01:08 pm

Well, I can tell you that my DD's ODP coach did NOT contact her club coach. As a matter of fact, she ran into her ODP coach when she was leaving after a game. He said a brief hello to her and said I don't want to get in trouble for talking to you outside of ODP, hope your game went well. He then walked off.

I agree wholeheartedly, these should be separate events and should be treated as such. Again, I would like to get written evaluations on my DD but it should be my perogative as to whether or not I share that with her club coach.
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Re: Question about ODP coach etiquette

Post by Ed on 20/06/13, 09:53 pm

I really don't think it is a big deal, the coaching circle isn't that big, a lot of them know each other and many are friends.

I don't have a problem if 2 of my daughter's teachers consult each other to help her in school, so why shouldn't 2 of her soccer coaches consult each other to help her development?  What is wrong with ODP coach talking to Club coach and saying, "Hey Club coach, little Sallie needs to work on her dribbling with her left foot, maybe you spend some time with her on that?"

I consistently talk to her club coach and relay his ideas for her improvement to both her and her skills coach..

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Re: Question about ODP coach etiquette

Post by Packrabbit on 20/06/13, 10:52 pm

The problem is that ODP is already perceived by many coaches to be too political and a recruiting/scouting tool for some of the area's clubs.

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Re: Question about ODP coach etiquette

Post by DDPlays4Snacks on 20/06/13, 11:26 pm

Could it be that the communication you received is somewhat jumbled?   My DD said we (meaning parents) would receive "evaluations" and feedback from coaches via mail (or possibly email) later on.  If you are hearing about this in 3rd or 4th person, you may be getting incorrect info.   Lots of the coaches are not local.  DD ODP coach is from Austin, I think.  I doubt she even knows who what team my DD plays for or the Coaches name.

IMHO.
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Re: Question about ODP coach etiquette

Post by outonthelimb on 21/06/13, 12:32 am

I'm curious.  What age does the "politics" of ODP begin?  I've yet to see a single instance where a top player on the '00 scene didn't make the '99 ODP age group.  I have yet to see an instance where one of those players didn't end up on one of the top 2 teams at ODP either.  It seems that most of the clubs (big/small) have representatives on the teams as well.  With that said there are some instances where girls didn't tryout or made the pool but at a crowded position and didn't ask (or didn't get) to be evaluated at another spot so end up on team 3+ because they couldn't beat out the players on the upper teams.  

IMO the problem (or one of many problems) with NTX ODP is that ODP and the clubs don't work together enough! ODP coaches should be out scouting league games, talking to club coaches etc etc.  

Just as an example. A few NTX '99 ODP parents (myself included) spoke with a couple of SoCal ODP parents when NTX ODP went to California last year.  It was interesting/eye opening to hear SoCal parents talk about how the club pushed/promoted players for ODP.  Clubs/leagues regularly scheduled around ODP practices/events.  If there were conflicts between club and ODP, ODP won without question as a rule.  The names of the few girls that made the ODP pool were published by SoCal (CalSouth Pro+) ODP along with the clubs those girls represented and available on the socal soccer blogs.  I didn't believe that last one so I checked their blog myself...it was there.  The pool was dwindled to only 24-32 players enough for two teams period.  To make the ODP pool and even more so the final team means quite a bit to club and player there.  The combination of club and CalSouth Pro+ working together made their system work/credible.  My understanding was that once you made the final 32 the teams were sponsored so the financial element disappeared as well.
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Re: Question about ODP coach etiquette

Post by Uncle Numanga on 21/06/13, 08:02 am

Ed wrote:I really don't think it is a big deal, the coaching circle isn't that big, a lot of them know each other and many are friends.

I don't have a problem if 2 of my daughter's teachers consult each other to help her in school, so why shouldn't 2 of her soccer coaches consult each other to help her development?  What is wrong with ODP coach talking to Club coach and saying, "Hey Club coach, little Sallie needs to work on her dribbling with her left foot, maybe you spend some time with her on that?"

I consistently talk to her club coach and relay his ideas for her improvement to both her and her skills coach..

I bet he loves that!
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Re: Question about ODP coach etiquette

Post by Uncle Numanga on 21/06/13, 08:14 am

outonthelimb wrote:I'm curious.  What age does the "politics" of ODP begin?  I've yet to see a single instance where a top player on the '00 scene didn't make the '99 ODP age group.  I have yet to see an instance where one of those players didn't end up on one of the top 2 teams at ODP either.  It seems that most of the clubs (big/small) have representatives on the teams as well.  With that said there are some instances where girls didn't tryout or made the pool but at a crowded position and didn't ask (or didn't get) to be evaluated at another spot so end up on team 3+ because they couldn't beat out the players on the upper teams.  

IMO the problem (or one of many problems) with NTX ODP is that ODP and the clubs don't work together enough! ODP coaches should be out scouting league games, talking to club coaches etc etc.  

Just as an example. A few NTX '99 ODP parents (myself included) spoke with a couple of SoCal ODP parents when NTX ODP went to California last year.  It was interesting/eye opening to hear SoCal parents talk about how the club pushed/promoted players for ODP.  Clubs/leagues regularly scheduled around ODP practices/events.  If there were conflicts between club and ODP, ODP won without question as a rule.  The names of the few girls that made the ODP pool were published by SoCal (CalSouth Pro+) ODP along with the clubs those girls represented and available on the socal soccer blogs.  I didn't believe that last one so I checked their blog myself...it was there.  The pool was dwindled to only 24-32 players enough for two teams period.  To make the ODP pool and even more so the final team means quite a bit to club and player there.  The combination of club and CalSouth Pro+ working together made their system work/credible.  My understanding was that once you made the final 32 the teams were sponsored so the financial element disappeared as well.

That is why SoCal rules the ODP landscape. They get it. The best players are almost exclusively on the best teams.

NTX ODP is a joke compared to the rest of the states. They feel like they need quotas. This many from the better teams, this many from lesser teams, this may players from outlying areas and this many kids that could be rec players. They don't come to club games. They don't evaluate players outside of ODP practices. Until NTX soccer wakes up and actually puts together teams of the best players, the only thing you can hope for is that your kid gets put on the Regional team. That way, she can quit wasting her time at the NTX practices. They need an experienced club coach running it, not Gary Williamson.
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Re: Question about ODP coach etiquette

Post by Hook It on 31/07/13, 08:29 pm

Uncle Numanga wrote:
outonthelimb wrote:I'm curious.  What age does the "politics" of ODP begin?  I've yet to see a single instance where a top player on the '00 scene didn't make the '99 ODP age group.  I have yet to see an instance where one of those players didn't end up on one of the top 2 teams at ODP either.  It seems that most of the clubs (big/small) have representatives on the teams as well.  With that said there are some instances where girls didn't tryout or made the pool but at a crowded position and didn't ask (or didn't get) to be evaluated at another spot so end up on team 3+ because they couldn't beat out the players on the upper teams.  

IMO the problem (or one of many problems) with NTX ODP is that ODP and the clubs don't work together enough! ODP coaches should be out scouting league games, talking to club coaches etc etc.  

Just as an example. A few NTX '99 ODP parents (myself included) spoke with a couple of SoCal ODP parents when NTX ODP went to California last year.  It was interesting/eye opening to hear SoCal parents talk about how the club pushed/promoted players for ODP.  Clubs/leagues regularly scheduled around ODP practices/events.  If there were conflicts between club and ODP, ODP won without question as a rule.  The names of the few girls that made the ODP pool were published by SoCal (CalSouth Pro+) ODP along with the clubs those girls represented and available on the socal soccer blogs.  I didn't believe that last one so I checked their blog myself...it was there.  The pool was dwindled to only 24-32 players enough for two teams period.  To make the ODP pool and even more so the final team means quite a bit to club and player there.  The combination of club and CalSouth Pro+ working together made their system work/credible.  My understanding was that once you made the final 32 the teams were sponsored so the financial element disappeared as well.

That is why SoCal rules the ODP landscape.  They get it.  The best players are almost exclusively on the best teams.  

NTX ODP is a joke compared to the rest of the states.  They feel like they need quotas.  This many from the better teams, this many from lesser teams, this may players from outlying areas and this many kids that could be rec players.  They don't come to club games.  They don't evaluate players outside of ODP practices.  Until NTX soccer wakes up and actually puts together teams of the best players, the only thing you can hope for is that your kid gets put on the Regional team.  That way, she can quit wasting her time at the NTX practices.  They need an experienced club coach running it, not Gary Williamson.

Wow - some serious hostility.... Hmmm wheres that coming from?

I do tend to agree with the comments on quotas, yet on the other hand it could be considered a courtesy to service 125 new players into the program to allow the girls who just want to get better to have the opportunity to be the best they can be and maybe play an extra few years or even into High School.

It is a great, value and for my DD it has been a very positive experience. No regrets, it is not taking the place of any other sport she is involved in and they keep it quite separate also from her HL team.

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Re: Question about ODP coach etiquette

Post by InaB on 31/07/13, 10:43 pm

Agree hook, my DD thoroughly enjoyed it and it provides an opportunity for girls with potential from a wide range of leagues an opportunity to improve.
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Re: Question about ODP coach etiquette

Post by Blank77 on 01/08/13, 07:22 am

Hook It wrote:
It is a great, value and for my DD it has been a very positive experience.  No regrets, it is not taking the place of any other sport she is involved in and they keep it quite separate also from her HL team.

I wish this was the experience for us, my DDs ODP coach and her clashed a bit at the OU camp - which I thought was no big deal, until she made it known to her brand new LH coach her low opinion of my DD.

I thought this was totally unacceptable, but anyway, ends our ODP experience. It isn't worth it if the consequence of a bad session or if she doesn't sync with a coach she barely knows is bad reports to her D1 coach.
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Re: Question about ODP coach etiquette

Post by InaB on 01/08/13, 12:41 pm

Ouch, sorry Blank, that is not good. ODP should be about helping players improve what they do well and better what they don't do so well. I have to say that over the years, I have gone through many, many job reviews and only twice did I have a less than satisfactory meeting. One of those was based on an opinion of someone I had barely interacted with. So I asked my manager, what he thought I could do to improve in that area. He gave some points and I followed them. I didn't make a big deal out of the right or wrong, I just showed that I wanted to improve his view of me.

The best thing you can do for your DD is to ask her new LH coach for pointers on what he/she thinks are her good points and those that she could improve on. I wouldn't let it lay idle for the coach to continue mulling. If the coach gives you a list of good and bad, your DD should say let me decide a plan on how I can make improvements and bring it back to you. This should help mitigate whatever the ODP coach said.

Best of luck to both of you.
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Re: Question about ODP coach etiquette

Post by Blank77 on 01/08/13, 12:52 pm

A new LH coach is tough to approach for pointers, so I just told her to play hard and let her soccer ability do the work. The more attention she brought to the issues with her odp coach the more distracting it becomes. This happened quite awhile ago and I believe her actual play and work ethic has put the issue to rest. Just hate that one of her first encounters with her new coach was to discuss issues at a stupid camp in Oklahoma with teammates and a coach she barely knew and didnt know her.
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Re: Question about ODP coach etiquette

Post by InaB on 01/08/13, 01:17 pm

I agree with you Blank and your advice to your DD was sound.
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Re: Question about ODP coach etiquette

Post by Hook It on 01/08/13, 10:49 pm

B77 - That does suck indeed. I really would be offended and my weakness is that I do not usually let things go. I would go head to head with the ODP coach, but that is probably not good advice.

I agree you advice to your daughter on letting her play speak for itself. Also, the changes of coaches...Hmm... I guess it is to be expected. I have seen many strange changes this year. I guess we will see how things pan out in just a few months when we have some games completed....

Hope it gets better for you all, also hope that you do not drop ODP just because of one bad coaching situation....

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Re: Question about ODP coach etiquette

Post by cant take it on 14/08/13, 09:33 am

TripDDs wrote:Should a DDs ODP coach report any information, good or bad, back to your DDs club coach?
no
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