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Water Breaks....Really?

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Re: Water Breaks....Really?

Post by TripDDs on 22/07/13, 12:56 pm

Apparently the trend of competitive soccer becoming rec soccer continues..... get out the participation trophies and make sure all players, regardless of skill or condition get equal time.

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Re: Water Breaks....Really?

Post by Guest on 22/07/13, 01:08 pm

TripDDs wrote:Apparently the trend of competitive soccer becoming rec soccer continues..... get out the participation trophies and make sure all players, regardless of skill or condition get equal time.

yes, lets do two a day practices with no water breaks, wouldn't want to be rec now would we? Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes 

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Re: Water Breaks....Really?

Post by JustaSport on 22/07/13, 01:22 pm

MoveYourFeet wrote:
go99 wrote:Water breaks are there to supplement bad parenting.  A kid that is properly hydrated before the game should be able to make it to the half.  And if you are dehydrated at the water break and taking on water at that point it is really too late.  But the reality is there is no way they can count on parents to make sure that their kid has been drinking not only regular fluids but extra to account for the additional activity.

There was a hydration study done years ago where they set up doctors to test the hydration levels of kids before their games. I wish I could find it again, but I can't seem to. From what I remember, well over half the kids were already at dehydrated levels going into their game. They were already at such a disadvantage going into their matches, and it was all because of their parent's ignorance.

And if my kid's team loses a competitive advantage over another team because safety is being administered, so be it. I'll take the health of these kids over competitive edge any day. And being that this is in an 03 forum, really?!?! These games mean very little. Come back to me when your kid is in college and tell me how important the grade school game results were.

I don't doubt the information you're posting in regard to the study. But hasn't "dehydrated" become the primary buzzword for all things athletic since around the year 2000? It's so generic. We used to call it "thirsty"... and would just get a drink of water to take care of the issue. Now, it's almost become recognized as a medical condition.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with giving the kids a water break in severe heat situations. If just takes a few minutes; about as long as an injury stoppage on average. It just wears me out to hear about the deadly risks of being "dehydrated". If the players drink before the game, at halftime, and then after the match... the human body is surely built to survive while missing a sip of H2O for 30-35 minutes during play.
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Re: Water Breaks....Really?

Post by KicksNorth05 on 22/07/13, 01:31 pm

FYI for you drill sergeant mentality coaches before you end up with a kid with heat stroke during your practice session.

There are quite a few basic differences in the chemical makeup of children that make it harder for them to regulate body temperature than adults.

1. Children have more body surface area than body weight, so when the outside temperature is higher than body temperature, children tend to gain heat faster than adults. Don’t let their smaller size deceive you.

2.During exercise, children generate up to 20% to 25% more heat for their body weight than adults. Youngsters’ higher metabolic rates also contribute to the higher amounts of heat that kids can generate with exercise and activities.

3. Movements that are unrefined and inefficient produce more heat in kids than older athletes who have mastered their techniques and have more smooth movements.

4. The amount of blood pumped during exercise is less in children than adults, so there is less ability to move heat to the skin to give off heat.

5. Children have immature sweating mechanisms and also sweat less than adults, so they have less ability to get rid of heat by evaporation of sweat. They do not have as many sweat glands, and those sweat glands are not as efficient as adults. Getting sunburned also decreases the ability of the sweat glands to perform, so wearing sunscreen is a must (in addition to protecting their skin from premature aging and skin cancer).

6.Children adjust to the heat more slowly, so it will take longer for them to get used to summer temperatures and humidity than adults. This process of adaptation is called acclimatization.

7. Core body temperature in children rises higher and more quickly with dehydration, so it is even more important to provide drink breaks for young active children. The thirst drive in a child is not as good as an adult’s thirst drive, so taking frequent breaks to drink fluids should be mandatory.
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Re: Water Breaks....Really?

Post by Guest on 22/07/13, 01:35 pm

rdwntx wrote:FYI for you drill sergeant mentality coaches before you end up with a kid with heat stroke during your practice session.

There are quite a few basic differences in the chemical makeup of children that make it harder for them to regulate body temperature than adults.

1. Children have more body surface area than body weight, so when the outside temperature is higher than body temperature, children tend to gain heat faster than adults. Don’t let their smaller size deceive you.

2.During exercise, children generate up to 20% to 25% more heat for their body weight than adults. Youngsters’ higher metabolic rates also contribute to the higher amounts   of heat that kids can generate with exercise and activities.

3. Movements that are unrefined and inefficient produce more heat in kids than older athletes who have mastered their techniques and have more smooth movements.
   
4. The amount of blood pumped during exercise is less in children than adults, so there is less ability to move heat to the skin to give off heat.

5. Children have immature sweating mechanisms and also sweat less than adults, so they have less ability to get rid of heat by evaporation of sweat. They do not have as many sweat glands, and those sweat glands are not as efficient as adults. Getting sunburned also decreases the ability of the sweat glands to perform, so wearing sunscreen is a must (in addition to protecting their skin from premature aging and skin cancer).

6.Children adjust to the heat more slowly, so it will take longer for them to get used to summer temperatures and humidity than adults. This process of adaptation is called acclimatization.
   
7. Core body temperature in children rises higher and more quickly with dehydration, so it is even more important to provide drink breaks for young active children. The thirst drive in a child is not as good as an adult’s thirst drive, so taking frequent breaks to drink fluids should be mandatory.

Sounds like someone that knows what they are talking about. Great post. Thank you

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Re: Water Breaks....Really?

Post by txtransplant on 22/07/13, 01:41 pm

JustaSport wrote:If the players drink before the game, at halftime, and then after the match... the human body is surely built to survive while missing a sip of H2O for 30-35 minutes during play.

This time last year, I found my DD's teammate in the bathroom at the practice fields, passed out and lying on the dirty bathroom floor. She'd vomited several times, had no color in her face and couldn't stand or walk on her own.

Come to find out she'd been out at the lake all day with one parent and hadn't drank anything aside from soda throughout the day. The few sips of water she had at the beginning of practice did nothing to help her at that point. Within 20 minutes of her being there, she collapsed. Her mother arrived at practice (her parents were divorced) just as we were carrying her out of the bathroom. She acted as if it was no big deal I'd just picked her daughter up off the floor.

These are the kind of parents the league is protecting these children from.
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Re: Water Breaks....Really?

Post by JustaSport on 22/07/13, 01:43 pm

. wrote:
rdwntx wrote:FYI for you drill sergeant mentality coaches before you end up with a kid with heat stroke during your practice session.

There are quite a few basic differences in the chemical makeup of children that make it harder for them to regulate body temperature than adults.

1. Children have more body surface area than body weight, so when the outside temperature is higher than body temperature, children tend to gain heat faster than adults. Don’t let their smaller size deceive you.

2.During exercise, children generate up to 20% to 25% more heat for their body weight than adults. Youngsters’ higher metabolic rates also contribute to the higher amounts   of heat that kids can generate with exercise and activities.

3. Movements that are unrefined and inefficient produce more heat in kids than older athletes who have mastered their techniques and have more smooth movements.
   
4. The amount of blood pumped during exercise is less in children than adults, so there is less ability to move heat to the skin to give off heat.

5. Children have immature sweating mechanisms and also sweat less than adults, so they have less ability to get rid of heat by evaporation of sweat. They do not have as many sweat glands, and those sweat glands are not as efficient as adults. Getting sunburned also decreases the ability of the sweat glands to perform, so wearing sunscreen is a must (in addition to protecting their skin from premature aging and skin cancer).

6.Children adjust to the heat more slowly, so it will take longer for them to get used to summer temperatures and humidity than adults. This process of adaptation is called acclimatization.
   
7. Core body temperature in children rises higher and more quickly with dehydration, so it is even more important to provide drink breaks for young active children. The thirst drive in a child is not as good as an adult’s thirst drive, so taking frequent breaks to drink fluids should be mandatory.

Sounds like someone that knows what they are talking about.  Great post.  Thank you

Indeed. We need to start inserting IV's into all children just prior to games and teach them to dribble while wheeling around the drip bags. I'm amazed our kids don't die from dehydration when the front door is left open.
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Re: Water Breaks....Really?

Post by Guest on 22/07/13, 01:49 pm

Sorry justa but I don't take this topic as a very funny one. Not with some of the coaches we have running around NTX that have no knowledge or much less common sense to spot signs of trouble.

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Re: Water Breaks....Really?

Post by JustaSport on 22/07/13, 01:53 pm

txtransplant wrote:
JustaSport wrote:If the players drink before the game, at halftime, and then after the match... the human body is surely built to survive while missing a sip of H2O for 30-35 minutes during play.

This time last year, I found my DD's teammate in the bathroom at the practice fields, passed out and lying on the dirty bathroom floor. She'd vomited several times, had no color in her face and couldn't stand or walk on her own.

Come to find out she'd been out at the lake all day with one parent and hadn't drank anything aside from soda throughout the day. The few sips of water she had at the beginning of practice did nothing to help her at that point. Within 20 minutes of her being there, she collapsed. Her mother arrived at practice (her parents were divorced) just as we were carrying her out of the bathroom. She acted as if it was no big deal I'd just picked her daughter up off the floor.

These are the kind of parents the league is protecting these children from.

I don't understand the last statement. Are you suggesting that the water break in the middle of the game would have been the caveat for the girl you've described? The girl in your description was a victim of idiotic parenting. Like I said, I don't have a problem at all with water breaks during games. But the league's water breaks could not have helped the young girl... since she was at a practice, right?
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Re: Water Breaks....Really?

Post by txtransplant on 22/07/13, 01:58 pm

But she has the same idiotic parents during games as well, right? And guess what... her father was once a coach. Probably the same kind of guy who once complained about water breaks creating a momentum shift during games.


The main reason I shared this scenario is because by your previous posts you seem to be taking a fairly cavalier attitude about dehydration and making it out to be "not that big of deal".
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Re: Water Breaks....Really?

Post by KicksNorth05 on 22/07/13, 02:02 pm

Justasport - Whether parents are negligent or ignorant is irrelevant. As a coach you are responsible for that player's welfare when they are at your practice or game.

JustaSport wrote:
txtransplant wrote:
JustaSport wrote:If the players drink before the game, at halftime, and then after the match... the human body is surely built to survive while missing a sip of H2O for 30-35 minutes during play.

This time last year, I found my DD's teammate in the bathroom at the practice fields, passed out and lying on the dirty bathroom floor. She'd vomited several times, had no color in her face and couldn't stand or walk on her own.

Come to find out she'd been out at the lake all day with one parent and hadn't drank anything aside from soda throughout the day. The few sips of water she had at the beginning of practice did nothing to help her at that point. Within 20 minutes of her being there, she collapsed. Her mother arrived at practice (her parents were divorced) just as we were carrying her out of the bathroom. She acted as if it was no big deal I'd just picked her daughter up off the floor.

These are the kind of parents the league is protecting these children from.

I don't understand the last statement.  Are you suggesting that the water break in the middle of the game would have been the caveat for the girl you've described?  The girl in your description was a victim of idiotic parenting.  Like I said, I don't have a problem at all with water breaks during games.  But the league's water breaks could not have helped the young girl... since she was at a practice, right?
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Re: Water Breaks....Really?

Post by TripDDs on 22/07/13, 02:10 pm

Well, I changed my mind on the water issue and I am going to make my DDs play FIFA inside with one of those backpack water dispersment units attached to them at all times - no reason to go outside and risk exposure.....

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Re: Water Breaks....Really?

Post by sendit on 22/07/13, 02:18 pm

Considering girls at this age have not mastered the art of flopping just to get a 1-2 minute injury break, the water break is a good balance to that. Not sure the break needs to turn into a sit down with coach as he gives a halftime speech though. Clock did not stop for our game for the water breaks.
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Re: Water Breaks....Really?

Post by loveofthegame on 22/07/13, 02:20 pm

Really, it isn't about one extreme or the other here. Can't we all agree that health and safety of our kids should be paramount to a final score?

In response to the comment that was along the lines of "back in our day we just called it being thirsty", yes, fortunately science has stepped up their game and we are more aware of extreme conditions and their toll on young athletes.

Let's be honest, during "normal" temps and games, this isn't an issue, but this last weekend was brutal. It isn't about giving any one team an advantage or "stopping momentum". It's a game. Hard to enjoy a game when you are being carried off the field because you felt pressured to not show "weakness" by getting a drink when it was offered to you.
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Re: Water Breaks....Really?

Post by SD69 on 22/07/13, 02:22 pm

Water breaks were handled differently at Puma than I've seen elsewhere. Most tourneys let the players go to the sideline but not leave the field for there break. At Puma, they were several minutes long and allowed the players to leave the field and sit in the shade. I think they need breaks during summer tournaments, but keep the players on the field so as to keep disruptions to flow of the game to a minimum.
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Re: Water Breaks....Really?

Post by JustaSport on 22/07/13, 02:28 pm

rdwntx wrote:Justasport - Whether parents are negligent or ignorant is irrelevant. As a coach you are responsible for that player's welfare when they are at your practice or game.

JustaSport wrote:
txtransplant wrote:
JustaSport wrote:If the players drink before the game, at halftime, and then after the match... the human body is surely built to survive while missing a sip of H2O for 30-35 minutes during play.

This time last year, I found my DD's teammate in the bathroom at the practice fields, passed out and lying on the dirty bathroom floor. She'd vomited several times, had no color in her face and couldn't stand or walk on her own.

Come to find out she'd been out at the lake all day with one parent and hadn't drank anything aside from soda throughout the day. The few sips of water she had at the beginning of practice did nothing to help her at that point. Within 20 minutes of her being there, she collapsed. Her mother arrived at practice (her parents were divorced) just as we were carrying her out of the bathroom. She acted as if it was no big deal I'd just picked her daughter up off the floor.

These are the kind of parents the league is protecting these children from.

I don't understand the last statement.  Are you suggesting that the water break in the middle of the game would have been the caveat for the girl you've described?  The girl in your description was a victim of idiotic parenting.  Like I said, I don't have a problem at all with water breaks during games.  But the league's water breaks could not have helped the young girl... since she was at a practice, right?

Which is why I mandate that girls go to the restroom in pairs... unlike the previous poster's coach who had no idea his player was lying on the "dirty bathroom floor" until the parent walked in and found her.

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Re: Water Breaks....Really?

Post by Guest on 22/07/13, 02:29 pm

All of you people with this "flow of the game" stuff crack me up. This is 03 soccer, there is no "flow" to the game. As much as the parents like to think their kids play at an expert level, it is all pretty ugly to watch when compared to real soccer. There is a lot of booting the ball, a lot of chasing, a lot of slow movement and a lot of uncoordinated people trying to do something their bodies are not used to doing. That is all ok, as that is why they are practicing and working on these things. But lets not get carried away, there is no reason to insist the "flow" of the game is disturbed by a water break. That is pure comedy.

Give the kids a water break and lets keep them safe. This is supposed to be for fun. If you want them to "toughen up" have them join the military when they get out of high school.


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Re: Water Breaks....Really?

Post by Guest on 22/07/13, 02:31 pm

RunsLikeWind wrote:All of you people with this "flow of the game" stuff crack me up.  This is 03 soccer, there is no "flow" to the game.  As much as the parents like to think their kids play at an expert level, it is all pretty ugly to watch when compared to real soccer.  There is a lot of booting the ball, a lot of chasing, a lot of slow movement and a lot of uncoordinated people trying to do something their bodies are not used to doing.  That is all ok, as that is why they are practicing and working on these things.  But lets not get carried away, there is no reason to insist the "flow" of the game is disturbed by a water break.  That is pure comedy.  

Give the kids a water break and lets keep them safe.  This is supposed to be for fun.  If you want them to "toughen up" have them join the military when they get out of high school.




cheers cheers cheers 

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Re: Water Breaks....Really?

Post by PLAY2FEET!! on 22/07/13, 02:41 pm

soccerdad1969 wrote:Water breaks were handled differently at Puma than I've seen elsewhere. Most tourneys let the players go to the sideline but not leave the field for there break. At Puma, they were several minutes long and allowed the players to leave the field and sit in the shade. I think they need breaks during summer tournaments, but keep the players on the field so as to keep disruptions to flow of the game to a minimum.
Maybe Puma Cup was not cancelled. Just an extended waterbreak.
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Re: Water Breaks....Really?

Post by axlefoley on 22/07/13, 02:54 pm

silentparent wrote:
RunsLikeWind wrote:All of you people with this "flow of the game" stuff crack me up.  This is 03 soccer, there is no "flow" to the game.  As much as the parents like to think their kids play at an expert level, it is all pretty ugly to watch when compared to real soccer.  There is a lot of booting the ball, a lot of chasing, a lot of slow movement and a lot of uncoordinated people trying to do something their bodies are not used to doing.  That is all ok, as that is why they are practicing and working on these things.  But lets not get carried away, there is no reason to insist the "flow" of the game is disturbed by a water break.  That is pure comedy.  

Give the kids a water break and lets keep them safe.  This is supposed to be for fun.  If you want them to "toughen up" have them join the military when they get out of high school.

Rollin on the floor, Rollin on the floor....i love it..lol! bounce cheers 



cheers cheers cheers 
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Re: Water Breaks....Really?

Post by MoveYourFeet on 22/07/13, 04:26 pm

axlefoley wrote:
Rollin on the floor, Rollin on the floor....i love it..lol! bounce cheers 



cheers cheers cheers 

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Re: Water Breaks....Really?

Post by EPL Fan on 25/07/13, 04:43 am

flounder wrote:Water Breaks may be the worst thing for soccer.  I get it if the kids are playing in 100+ weather and you can see they are about to pass out.  Under 100 degrees it totally ruins the momentum of the game.  Part of the game is fitness of the team and substitution management.  Stopage of play totally ruins it.    Back in the day you just sub out of your were out of wind or need water.

If you thought these water breaks were bad, I would advise you to stay away from the Boy Classic League Qualifying Tournament next weekend.

From the rules, hopefully a misprint:

There will be a 5 minute water break during each half in every game. The clock will NOT stop.
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Re: Water Breaks....Really?

Post by InaB on 25/07/13, 08:11 am

Parents, and fellow posters, sorry but I am getting up to the pulpet.  It only takes one child collapsing and dying from heat stroke to make the mandatory water break understandable. Not all players hydrate themselves well every day. If they haven't done so, by the time they reach the game field they are already at risk. They are playing in a deficit mode, but at least they can stay somewhat even if they are given extra water breaks. If a child has a known (or unknown) problem such as asthma, diabetes, heart problems, dehydration makes them extremely vulnerable to extreme complications due to heat stress or stroke.

For those who want to pull out the "back in the day" card, there were a lot of things we did back in the day that we now know are not safe. Back in my day, we lost a great football player who had an undetected heart valve problem. The team had only been on the field for half an hour in pads on a day where the temperature at 10 a.m. was 95 degrees. The humidity was high and this young man collapsed and died on the field. We found out that he died of a stroke brought on by dehydration and excessive heat.

Have you not read all the stories over the past few years of young athletes dying from heat and dehydration problems? That is why the mandatory water breaks are there.

I would far rather "slow the flow" of a game (regardless of age) and save a life than press on and lose a lovely player. Would any of you truly want to risk your daughter's life?

On a side note, I agree with Runslikewind on the flow of an 03 game.

Sorry, don't mean to be preachy, but flow of the game doesn't even compare in my mind to the life of a child.
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Re: Water Breaks....Really?

Post by textigerfan on 25/07/13, 08:22 am

InaB, I am with you. I am hoping that most of the people that have continued complaining so much about water breaks and Puma Cup cancellation are new to this. If not, then they should be seasoned enough and know better. It is alright to dislike and voice an opinion. But to carry on so much over youth soccer is a bit extreme.
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Re: Water Breaks....Really?

Post by Guest on 25/07/13, 08:29 am

"I would far rather "slow the flow" of a game (regardless of age) and save a life than press on and lose a lovely player. Would any of you truly want to risk your daughter's life?"


cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers 

you can stick the "flow" up the wazoo....

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Re: Water Breaks....Really?

Post by Slakemoth on 25/07/13, 08:38 am

I always felt water breaks were a necessity for the referee crews too. We forget that that they are working game after game in the heat. Typically as a tournament progresses the games will get off schedule, which shortens the referees "recovery" gap between games, and time to rest and get some water back in their system. I will never forget how scary it was seeing a linesman go down hard during a QT many years ago.

Don't be afraid to hand a bottle of cold water to your linesman during your match. They will appreciate it.
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