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Player pass. Who wins? Who Loses?

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Player pass. Who wins? Who Loses?

Post by FastPitch on Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:31 pm

Will the Player Pass have any real effect? Who will be effected most? Who could be hurt? Would a club use this to get a team in a higher division? Or will it be no big deal?

So many questions and so few answers.

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Re: Player pass. Who wins? Who Loses?

Post by JewelsBMF on Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:00 am

YAAAWN.....
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Re: Player pass. Who wins? Who Loses?

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:29 am

Who wins? Players. Also coaches/clubs with enough collaboration across teams to make it work.

Who loses? Helicopter parents, small independents and clubs with enough political baggage between teams to prevent them moving players as needed.

I think it's a great rule that allows coaches to run teams more in the spirit of real academies. Also glad to hear players can move up or down divisions.

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Re: Player pass. Who wins? Who Loses?

Post by FastPitch on Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:37 pm

I thought June was to try out for teams not adjust as you go. Oops. I couldn't attract or develop a good team, let me borrow from big sister team to stay in D1 D2 or D3.

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Re: Player pass. Who wins? Who Loses?

Post by Lucky 7's on Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:19 am

FastPitch wrote:I thought June was to try out for teams not adjust as you go.  Oops.  I couldn't attract or develop a good team, let me borrow from big sister team to stay in D1 D2 or D3.  

My thoughts exactly. IMO the parents that are in favor of this rule are the parents that have a DD in the top two divisions. This rule is so anti 3rd division there are no words to describe it. There is no integrity in sports anymore.
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Re: Player pass. Who wins? Who Loses?

Post by DirtyElbows on Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:59 pm

For your reading pleasure (it's sub-section G.)...

"Club Player Pass"

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Re: Player pass. Who wins? Who Loses?

Post by FastPitch on Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:44 pm

If clubs abide by the "spirit of the rule" and, as in first bullet, and use the Pass for players to play UP then this is not a big deal. It teams take the top players and play them DOWN to help little sister win more games to get in a better division, then that breaks the spirit of the rule and the integrity of the standings.

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Re: Player pass. Who wins? Who Loses?

Post by SD69 on Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:05 am

Why not just make that a rule. "Spirit of the game" seems awfully open to interpretation and bound to be abused.
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Re: Player pass. Who wins? Who Loses?

Post by DirtyElbows on Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:46 am

Reading the 'boys rules'...they address the playing UP Only piece very clearly: "Club Player Pass may only play in a higher division within their age group."

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Re: Player pass. Who wins? Who Loses?

Post by easydoesit on Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:31 pm

If a team/club is dependent on this rule and to borrow players in a temp basis to compete and and have selective success then as a parent I would seriously reconsider the team/coach my fighter is with. Also, I stand firm and in agreement with the majority on the fact that the team you go into the season wit is the team that see's things through as a team period. Anything else or help from other players is not the work of " The Team" that truly makes up the team. This rule is stupid and does no one any good and for sure voids all reputation and ability and success from the original rostered team.

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Re: Player pass. Who wins? Who Loses?

Post by Zizou on Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:36 pm

The player pass rule, from my understanding only allows a player to play up within their division. If this is the case, why would you have a problem with rewarding a player for their hard work and development.

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Re: Player pass. Who wins? Who Loses?

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:41 pm

Zizou wrote:The player pass rule, from my understanding allows a player to play up within their division. If this is the case, why would you have a problem with rewarding a player for hard work and development.

Rule as currently written restricts a player from playing down a younger age group. Nothing in the rule indicates a short handed team cant club pass players from a higher division sister team with 48 hrs roster notice.

This makes sense to me. If my daughter was losing minutes because a lower division player is improving faster and player passed up, why wouldn't I want the coach to have an option to player pass her on a lower division team so she can get minutes. If the rule was only one way, the bottom of top team rosters will start getting the kind of reduced playing time we see in ECNL rosters...except it could start happening at u11 instead of u14.

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Re: Player pass. Who wins? Who Loses?

Post by Barca on Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:57 pm

4-3-3 wrote:
Zizou wrote:The player pass rule, from my understanding allows a player to play up within their division. If this is the case, why would you have a problem with rewarding a player for hard work and development.

Rule as currently written restricts a player from playing down a younger age group. Nothing in the rule indicates a short handed team cant club pass players from a higher division sister team with 48 hrs roster notice.

This makes sense to me. If my daughter was losing minutes because a lower division player is improving faster and player passed up, why wouldn't I want the coach to have an option to player pass her on a lower division team so she can get minutes. If the rule was only one way, the bottom of top team rosters will start getting the kind of reduced playing time we see in ECNL rosters...except it could start happening at u11 instead of u14.
I read this the same way.
Wouldn't this also work against the Indy's if you have a team like Sting Goodman who wants to move into DII next year and calls a couple of the stud players down to help out against Mutiny or Triumph so that they can secure the coveted 1st or 2nd place spot?
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Re: Player pass. Who wins? Who Loses?

Post by Gunner9 on Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:03 pm


Wouldn't this also work against the Indy's if you have a team like Sting Goodman who wants to move into DII next year and calls a couple of the stud players down to help out against Mutiny or Triumph so that they can secure the coveted 1st or 2nd place spot?[/quote]

Nah, the clubs would never do that...it's all about development.  Rolling Eyes 

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Re: Player pass. Who wins? Who Loses?

Post by Barca on Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:04 pm

Lol!! And you know it will happen. Can't wait to hear the fireworks go off!!
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Re: Player pass. Who wins? Who Loses?

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:56 pm

I agree. True indies (i.e. one team only) don't get any benefit, and could be hurt by this rule.

But I think the potential negative impact is minimal.

1) Most LH games are played on the same days. The rule only allows a pass player to do 1 game per day.

Doubtful clubs will send studdettes down to lower divisions, only to win games, at the expense of their top division games.

More likely the players playing down are viewed as disposable to their higher division teams.

2) We put too much stock in the impact of one or two players. In most age groups there are a VERY FEW players so dominant as to completely alter game prospects just by their showing up. In my DD's age group, you don't need but a few fingers to count them. The game is by and large a team sport. While 2 or 3 guests can make a difference, chemistry, cohesion and quailty of the whole team matters more to the outcome than a few guest players. My .02 anyway....

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Re: Player pass. Who wins? Who Loses?

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:29 pm

I think pass play only goes up not down . D2 can play on d1 but not vice versa, I could be wrong.

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Re: Player pass. Who wins? Who Loses?

Post by baseballdad on Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:36 pm

Perhaps this has already been covered and I missed it. With this player pass, can a player in the 03 division "move up" and play games with the 02's within the same club?

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Re: Player pass. Who wins? Who Loses?

Post by ballhead on Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:38 pm

silentparent wrote:I think pass play only goes up not down . D2 can play on d1 but not vice versa, I could be wrong.

I believe Player Pass is only restricted in playing down an age group. I don't think there is any restriction on playing division.
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Re: Player pass. Who wins? Who Loses?

Post by DirtyElbows on Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:56 pm

The ONLY* restriction is playing down in "true age".  A D1 player can play on a D3 team, vice versa, D1 to D1, etc... (*as far as "playing up, down, etc"...)

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Re: Player pass. Who wins? Who Loses?

Post by outonthelimb on Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:11 pm

Q1. Can a D1 player play on another same age group D1 team in the same week if the games are on different days (e.g. mid-week & weekend, or Sat & Sunday)?

Q2. Same as above but different age group. (i.e '03 on Wednesday, '02 on Saturday)?

Q3. Is there a limit to the number of times a player can use in the player pass rule?
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LHGCL Club Player Pass Rules

Post by ballhead on Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:40 pm

Here is a link to the LHGCL rules as they were adopted by the league.  Section G starts at the bottom of page 1 and continues thru the middle of page 3.

http://girlsclassicleague.com/lhgclbylawsandrules/IVLHGCLPlayVer1203V13.pdf
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Re: Player pass. Who wins? Who Loses?

Post by intrinsic on Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:48 pm

What is the rationale for only allowing one pass player for the final three games of the season?

It couldn't be, "we don't want teams to use the pass players to influence the final standings and promotion/relegation", because every game counts equally in the standings, and the coaches (and parents and players) can easily figure out which early season games are going to have implications for the final standings.

So, there must be some other rationale. What is it?

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Re: Player pass. Who wins? Who Loses?

Post by outonthelimb on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:01 am

intrinsic wrote:What is the rationale for only allowing one pass player for the final three games of the season?

It couldn't be, "we don't want teams to use the pass players to influence the final standings and promotion/relegation", because every game counts equally in the standings, and the coaches (and parents and players) can easily figure out which early season games are going to have implications for the final standings.

So, there must be some other rationale. What is it?

The last 3 games of the season were exactly what I had in mind with my questions. It looks like the league stepped in front of that bullet train.... Twisted Evil 
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Re: Player pass. Who wins? Who Loses?

Post by ghostwhowalks on Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:30 pm

Wonder how they will handle rescheduled games... eg, Team A (D1) and Team B(D2), Team A plays Saturday and Team B plays Sunday. A Roster-ed girl can now play both games, Sat and Sunday. But if Saturday game has been rescheduled for next Sunday, when both Team A and B play, can she play both the games on the same day???

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