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JD's departure from FCD

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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by Guest on 14/02/14, 09:23 am

go99 wrote:there is nothing magical in the deefeter water.  They offer nothing different.  They are able to recruit and fill teams because they have the golden lottery ticket of the ECNL.  Take that and you will instantly see the flock of players going over dry up.

Problem you guys have is you cant take it. There is a better chance of say LW going to Feet to become the next ECNL squad than of Feet loosing their spot at the table. Boiler posted their ECNL standings.. I believe all but one was in the top half of the table. That alone would keep em in, and the next coach with his studly team will come over. No shame in that, some will, some wont...

Im stubborn and would love to see it done without. Thats why my family attends Kicks 01 games and cheer for those girls. Great kids, great parents, and a brand of football I hope to see my kid play down the road. Could give two rats at this point if there is an ECNL patch on her back. Players of that caliber, playing at a high level nationally will be seen with help from the parent and the coach(s). It can be done, will just take more work.

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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by Guest on 14/02/14, 09:26 am

What are their select standings, I think that was part of the criteria. If the defeeters coaches jumped ship w those teams would the defeeters still be considered the best organization for an ecnl bid, not a chance....

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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by go99 on 14/02/14, 09:27 am

 
Borussia wrote:
go99 wrote:
Borussia wrote:You keep bringing up the MASSIVE academy program.  What exactly is the point of that.  Have you seen the vast majority of the teams in that MASSIVE academy program.  

Dont get me wrong, every kid should have a place to play, but dont hang your hat on the fact that "We have more than you do"  

Honestly that is one of the biggest knocks on that club.  So many teams of horrible caliber.  Why not just start their own recreational development league and let them play.  Instead of any kid that shows up, lets slap some Warrior gear on them, hit em for $90 a month, and lets not forget to get them the informational packet on the mandatory fundraisers.  Is it still $100 per to opt out?

Go with quality over quantity, if ALL their teams were of quality they could charge whatever the heck they wanted and still make money for them.  

Isnt LFS charging $160 per month, just for training... haha

The point of academy is to be MASSIVE.  The bigger your talent pool the better the talent you can get from it.  So you shouldn't focus on the horrible teams because it's about players not teams and at 8 you do not know who will be truly great.  Now on too Defeeters the problem there is ECNL is supposed to be a development vehicle but they don't have a big enough academy to feed their own teams so they are down to essentially recruiting teams

Bigger does not always equal better.  Do the people that actually know what they are doing run that same model.  Barca, Real, Bayern, Atletico, etc...

I know, I know, totally different beast with an actual reward at the end of the tunnel and fully funded by the mother club. But you dont see Barca with 50 teams per age group and they seem to be doing something right.

And yes, I am a homer! and proud of it.

WRONG!!!!!  Evil or Very Mad  Barca, real, bayern athletic and whoever else you want to come up with and not like academy at all. They are like select teams here. They are not one elite team of 7 yr olds. Once the kids have shown promise wherever they are playing they are brought into those systems. You do not restrict the player pool at that young of an age. So the argument could be made that there are too many SELECT teams but not ACADEMY. So if you can get 50 teams in academy great and then at some point you pic out the players from those teams that show true promise and talent. But what you will have is a very talented group who all understand YOUR way of playing soccer. Now I could blast LP and every other NTX club for having no soccer philosophy at all but thats a diffeent post
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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by go99 on 14/02/14, 09:30 am

Borussia wrote:
go99 wrote:there is nothing magical in the deefeter water.  They offer nothing different.  They are able to recruit and fill teams because they have the golden lottery ticket of the ECNL.  Take that and you will instantly see the flock of players going over dry up.
 
Problem you guys have is you cant take it.  There is a better chance of say LW going to Feet to become the next ECNL squad than of Feet loosing their spot at the table.  Boiler posted their ECNL standings.. I believe all but one was in the top half of the table.  That alone would keep em in, and the next coach with his studly team will come over.  No shame in that, some will, some wont...

Im stubborn and would love to see it done without.  Thats why my family attends Kicks 01 games and cheer for those girls.  Great kids, great parents, and a brand of football I hope to see my kid play down the road.  Could give two rats at this point if there is an ECNL patch on her back.  Players of that caliber, playing at a high level nationally will be seen with help from the parent and the coach(s).  It can be done, will just take more work.  

Of course you can take it. ECNL spots were not handed down from God on stone tablets. The same group of people who gave them the spots can also take them away
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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by outonthelimb on 14/02/14, 09:33 am

Bor,

Which one Kicks '01 or '06s? 3rd/4th hand information says that the '01s struck up a different arrangement and Feet are on the outside looking in. However Kicks '01 has been scrimmaging D'Feet u14 ECNL of late and doing quite well (2 or 3-0 win for Kicks). I'm sure the brass at Feet took notice and the asking price for the Kick's '01 parents just went way up. A group that good won't be left out of the ECNL party and it would be a shame for some of them to be 'worked into' a pre-existing stellar group versus going to an ECNL club intact. Even though the rumor mill is swinging in a different direction I would still be willing to bet you a lollipop that the overwhelming majority end up at Feet. It just makes more sense to me from 100,000 miles away and no immediate knowledge of the situation.

Regarding your '06s...all bets are off. The '06s are so far removed in time from ECNL that ECNL may have died, been resurrected and died again before the '06s are age appropriate.
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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by Pinnochio on 14/02/14, 09:38 am

4-3-3 wrote:
silentparent wrote:well thats it for me, singing lp's praises is tiring and uncomfortable, but imo in this case its the right thing...

The feet business model has never been the same as mega club. A parent of a pre teen may perceive dfeeters as weak because there aren't multiple strong feet teams running around at the younger years. You also may not have seen older teams play much, and thus have little idea of what the end product will look like down the road. I have no affiliation with feet, but I've seen enough of their teams play across multiple age groups that I can say I like their style of play. I've also seen a ton of Liverpool, boys and girls, and a Liverpool team with an attractive, skillful style is the exception, not the norm. Just my opinion here. The older a feet team the better they get. It's almost polar opposite for Liverpool. Again...my opinion.

The mass volume Liverpool business model is the same as TFC's. Seemingly healthy from the outside due to explosive growth, but prone to sudden and catastrophic implosion.

There is no problem with singing your club's praises, but if you're going after another club to build up your own, facts would help.  You label feet laggards...on last legs...etc...as if Liverpool has done anything to show they prepare teenaged kids for national level competition (i.e. ECNL).

Here are the facts. Liverpool has tons of teams, but when you look at their SELECT teams in lake highlands you get:

U19....one mid pack d2
U17...none
U16...one top d3, one mid pack d1
U15...one mid pack d3, one bottom third d3, one last place d1
U14...none
U13...one bottom third d2
U12...one mid pack d3, two top third d3
U11...four d1 in a 20 team d1...only one of which is likely to remain d1

So a grand total of ONE select team in top third of D1, and that team is a u11...in the ENTIRE club.  Two age groups without a single lake highlands level team...let alone a nationally competitive team. In the ecnl age groups, it's not a stretch to conclude Liverpool has zero teams that could compete at that level.

Contrast that with Feet's current ecnl standings below. Only one team not in the top third of the Texas conference:

U14 ECNL...2nd
U15 ECNL...10th (last)
U16 ECNL..3rd
U17 ECNL...3rd
U18 ECNL...3rd

And that's if you're using game results as your criteria. If you switch it to kids placed in college soccer, feet's record is going to trounce Liverpool by an even wider margin. Only criteria where Liverpool claims the upper hand on feet is total quantity of revenue generating teams...great metric for Liverpool principals, but should be worth a hill of beans to a parent.

The reason it's such a hard, tiresome and uncomfortable sell is once you get out of academy, the facts don't support the sales pitch.

LW leaves to one of the ECNL clubs and Liverpool goes the way of TFC.

Unless ECNL does the right thing and adopts a model allowing some individual teams to play their way in, Liverpool shouldn't even be in the discussion for an ECNL bid...they've haven't shown they're even remotely deserving, and throwing rocks at feet given liverpool track record is reeediculo!

Agree with everything you said about Liverpool. Nothing at the older age groups and I suppose building decent teams at the younger levels.

You are missing one key element though on the Feet teams. The reality is that Feet has been unable to develop any team even as good as LP the past few years. They have had to rely on taking teams mainly from Solar just to put a competitive team in Ecnl. So yes they have decent teams in Ecnl but no they are doing nothing to develop that on their own. And the only reason they were able to bring the 99 and 00 teams over is because they own a spot in Ecnl that I am not so sure they deserve. The 01s are the exception to this trend and that team has really improved over the past year so credit to that one team and coach for getting it done for Feet finally.
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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by Guest on 14/02/14, 09:46 am

Face it defeeters have an ecnl spot that is all they have. That is the hook , come here we play ecnl!

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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by Lefty on 14/02/14, 09:48 am

silentparent wrote:this is part of the point, without ecnl, dfeeters die. that's what the established clubs want, let clubs like LP have massive academy programs then say to those parents and coaches, well they dont have ecnl so you need to bring your kid or team here. cynical.

Don't disagree with you on Feet, but don't see where that has any relevance to LP getting an ECNL spot.  

You are advocating LP be awarded an ECNL spot BEFORE they have demonstrated the ability to meet ECNL criteria (among those, producing high quality players and soccer results) at the select level on a sustainable basis.

You are wanting to put the cart before the horse, and have still not explained how LP getting an ECNL spot would benefit the consumer (my kids).  Only benefit I can see would be to LP cash flow.

PLEASE DO EXPLAIN!


Last edited by Lefty on 14/02/14, 10:23 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by Guest on 14/02/14, 09:50 am

go99 wrote:there is nothing magical in the deefeter water.  They offer nothing different.  They are able to recruit and fill teams because they have the golden lottery ticket of the ECNL.  Take that and you will instantly see the flock of players going over dry up.

Doesn't explain why feet was successful putting players in top colleges prior to ECNL.

Feet has a small handful of coaches at the ages that matter that know how to coach, and have relationships with colleges. That's what they're all selling. Thats all Sting, texans, etc have either. Liverpool lost pulp, and waldrum, and LW coaches ulittles, so it doesn't appear they're anywhere close to offering the same.

And I like gophers point, non ECNL clubs and USYS in particular are spending too much time lamenting about ECNL instead of focusing on their own planning, services and marketing. Liverpool should be focusing on quality showing its parents they don't need ECNL instead of promising them a bid.

USYS should be aggressively marketing alternative merit based leagues instead of sitting around waiting for us club to clean their clock. Any second team....or even players 9 to 18 on an ECNL roster should be snatched up solidly in a non ECNL club, USYS league. If USYS sits idly by while us club tries to push this whole EGSL concept where only the the B and C teams of ECNL clubs are allowed to play, USYS and non ecnl clubs could very well end up as distant memories and the take over by us club will be complete.

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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by Guest on 14/02/14, 09:51 am

Lefty, look at the future. Massive academy, money, facilities .

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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by Guest on 14/02/14, 09:52 am

This is business. If lp got the bid, you don't think they couldnt simply buy those coaches and teams, just like dfeeters do? Clubs and teams merge all the time...

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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by futbollove on 14/02/14, 09:57 am

silentparent wrote:Lefty, look at the future. Massive academy, money, facilities .
That's good for LP's bottom line, but still doesn't change the quality issue. Whether the teams at Feet were developed, or stole from other clubs, it's still significantly better than what's being put on the field by LP at the select ages. Maybe that will change over time, but for now, LP has no case for inclusion.
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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by Guest on 14/02/14, 09:59 am

futbollove wrote:
silentparent wrote:Lefty, look at the future. Massive academy, money, facilities .
That's good for LP's bottom line, but still doesn't change the quality issue. Whether the teams at Feet were developed, or stole from other clubs, it's still significantly better than what's being put on the field by LP at the select ages. Maybe that will change over time, but for now, LP has no case for inclusion.

Actually it's not look at previous posts, select dfeeters teams are mediocre . So along with mediocre talent, they have little to draw on besides poaching and mediocre facilities, hardly a shining example of ecnl worthiness ...

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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by Guest on 14/02/14, 10:03 am

Well, I am spent on this. No more posts from me.

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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by go99 on 14/02/14, 10:03 am

Defeeter used to put players in top colleges and I USED to have a very fast 40 time. I am not sure your point. And as far as puting LP in VS Defeeters and how it benefits the community? LP can fill it's own ECNL squad. Defeeters have to recruit them away and break up other teams to fill it. so one can be a viable path and the other is a syphon on the soccer community. But I like how the endless loop is used. "Where is the history of developing select teams?" But I keep you out of the ECNL so I can recruit all of your teams and players therby denying the proof of success that I want to see. The proof will always be in the academy because they will always lose their top players to ECNL
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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by Soccertime10 on 14/02/14, 10:06 am

The LP academy is about quantity not quality.
In the 04 age group, LP's average ranking is 21st.
In the 05 age group, LP's average ranking is 28th.
In the 06 age group, LP's average ranking is 23rd.
ECNL is not going to consider that high quality.
The high number of teams provides the owners with high profits and a built-in sales force for flower sales. Can you blame them? Someone has to pay for all of those scholarships that are offered to the new recruits on the "A" teams.
Where is the list of LP college signings for this year? Maybe that would give LP some credibility.

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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by futbollove on 14/02/14, 10:08 am

Wasn't LP built by 'poaching' tons of mediocre teams? Why is it wrong for feet to follow that same model.
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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by soccersounder on 14/02/14, 10:09 am

silentparent wrote:The way feet are going they may be out of business in a couple of years....why aren't people flocking to them with all that glory you are bestowing on them?

Dude, Feet is doing the same thing they have always done.. They seem to be OK... And the next time they need a U14 ECNL team, they will just take the top Pool U13 Team, with the coach that will be glad to take his team to ECNL lol..

Just messing with you, but its true... If you cared to look up the facts, Feet would not be the first DFW to drop from ECNL. And when DFW loses a ECNL Club, it will be replaced by OFC or Classics Elite, Not Pool or Rush... Sorry Bro
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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by GrandTXSoccer on 14/02/14, 10:19 am

So JD's departure from FCD is keeping the D'feeters in ECNL and LP out? I'm confused as to what this thread is about Smile

Seriously though, if you were to name the top clubs and give them an ECNL spot based upon that then you'd have to give LP a spot, however they were late to the game so they are on the outside looking in. That's just life, deal with it. Using ECNL standings as justification that someone deserves to be an ECNL is comical. One of the criteria is history of youth player development, buying established teams based on your inclusion into the league doesn't come close to having a thing to do with player development. In NTX there is very little real player development that takes place simply because these ECNL clubs know they don't have to put out much effort to develop players because the players will all eventually come to them so let others deal with those headaches. Assuming LP would have been an ECNL club they'd have probably had one of the top 99 and 01 teams and Pulp would still have been at LP because he sure didn't want to leave. Then they'd have a solid 03 team, the top 04 team and probably the top 05 team as Pulp would still be at LP. That's pretty dang good player development and they could easlily recruit a top team like ever other club in the age groups they didn't have a team developed for. That's why using the stadings to justify inclusion or exclusion is comical.


Personally I'd like to see clubs have a chance to earn their way in, just like EPL. I would imagine at that point you'd see a much greater focus on developing your teams at a younger age. Imagine a qualifying tournament to get into the league after that U-13 season. Ten spots available to the top 10 finishers in the tournament, another 8 spots for teams 11-18. One entry per club per age group, bottom two from top league sent back down, bottom two from the lower divison are sent back into a qualifying tournament, top two from lower division bumped up.  As the girls age the number of teams in each division drop as the player pool shrinks. Now that would be a fun league and let clubs stand on their merits, not on how well they can recruit a team that someone else developed to come on over.

I also have some great ideas for Academy soccer Smile

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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by Lefty on 14/02/14, 10:21 am

silentparent wrote:Lefty, look at the future. Massive academy, money, facilities .

Great.

Now let's see them use all that to produce some QUALITY soccer results and EARN the opportunity to be considered for an ECNL spot.

If Feet were taking your QUALITY select teams for their ECNL spot them I could understand some of your beef with them.

Interesting in that you keep referencing Feet. Could be that LP may not be on a much different timeframe than I think Feet may be:
. If Feet does not get things sorted out and reduce their dependency on snatching teams to fill their ECNL spot in the next couple of years they may not last
. If LP does not figure out how to improve the QUALITY of their teams and become competitive and relevant at the select ages in the next couple of years they may see volume and earnings erosion.

You can only sell hope so long unless you are Jerry Jones Smile 

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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by Coach on 14/02/14, 10:24 am

GrandTXSoccer wrote:So JD's departure from FCD is keeping the D'feeters in ECNL and LP out? I'm confused as to what this thread is about Smile

Best line in 9 pages.

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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by soccersounder on 14/02/14, 10:26 am

go99 wrote:Defeeter used to put players in top colleges and I USED to have a very fast 40 time.  I am not sure your point.  And as far as puting LP in VS Defeeters and how it benefits the community?  LP can fill it's own ECNL squad.  Defeeters have to recruit them away and break up other teams to fill it. so one can be a viable path and the other is a syphon on the soccer community.  But I like how the endless loop is used.  "Where is the history of developing select teams?"  But I keep you out of the ECNL so I can recruit all of your teams and players therby denying the proof of success that I want to see.  The proof will always be in the academy because they will always lose their top players to ECNL

I think it reads like some of us are against Pool. I Ref and I enjoy most of the coahes at Pool and the way they play. But I think it is fair to state the facts. If the powers at Pool are saying the Good ole Boys are keeping them out of ECNL, then they are just feeding the customers some smoke and mirrors... ECNL is trying to get DFW down to 4 teams in the next 1 to 3 years, not add a team to further dilute the area. It just is what it is... The best Pool teams to date (98 & 00) left to other clubs AND they came from other Clubs before Pool. As your DD gets older, you gain perspective. If she can ball and you have any college soccer goals, then she SHOULD play ECNL. Does not mean Pool is bad. It is just best for the player... Been there, done that. It will be an easy decision for you..
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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by futbollove on 14/02/14, 10:40 am

GrandTXSoccer wrote:So JD's departure from FCD is keeping the D'feeters in ECNL and LP out? I'm confused as to what this thread is about Smile  cheers 

Assuming LP would have been an ECNL club they'd have probably had one of the top 99 and 01 teams (Did you mean 98 and 00 or did I miss something)

I'd like to see clubs have a chance to earn their way in, just like EPL. I would imagine at that point you'd see a much greater focus on developing your teams at a younger age. Imagine a qualifying tournament to get into the league after that U-13 season. Ten spots available to the top 10 finishers in the tournament, another 8 spots for teams 11-18. One entry per club per age group, bottom two from top league sent back down, bottom two from the lower divison are sent back into a qualifying tournament, top two from lower division bumped up.  As the girls age the number of teams in each division drop as the player pool shrinks. Now that would be a fun league and let clubs stand on their merits, not on how well they can recruit a team that someone else developed to come on over.
Good idea, but good luck with that happening.
I also have some great ideas for Academy soccer Smile
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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by GrandTXSoccer on 14/02/14, 10:43 am

Lefty,

You pretty much placed a definition of success that simply is near impossible to meet here in NTX, criteria that Solar, FCD, D'Feeters, and the Texans couldn't meet if it weren't for the ECNL label. You can build great academy teams and they can have success in the first couple of years of select but come time for ECNL years and teams/players leave for the ECNL label. Heck I could open a soccer club today and if some how I started the club and was in ECNL I can promise you that within a month I would have teams capable to compete at a top level. So I have no doubt that LP will never be able to meet your criteria for success.

Now to whomever listed out the avg rating of the LP teams in the 04, 05, & 06 age groups saying that it's a quantity over quality thing at LP, well that's just comical as well. The best 04 team is at LP and it's not close, the best 05 team was at LP (currently they have the 2nd) until ENCL started drawing folks away from Pulps older teams and he left and raided the 05's, in the 06's they have the 3rd best team. So to me it looks like they have quality and quantity, that actually sounds like a great way to develop teams. Heck I'm not even sure Solar has an 04 team and I think the D'feeters best team is 32nd, yeah they really know how to develop teams at those clubs.

This whole thing is comical. ECNL is not about development it's about $$$, just like academy soccer in NTX is about $$$ and not too much development. Quite honestly the system is broken but it's producing way too much money so it's not going to change.

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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by Guest on 14/02/14, 10:47 am

GrandTXSoccer wrote: Using ECNL standings as justification that someone deserves to be an ECNL is comical. )

Did you really mean to write this? There are some several doormat clubs in ECNL. Regularly beaten soundly by all the other clubs in nearly every age group. If feet were one of those clubs, I could see an argument that they don't deserve their ecnl bid. Still wouldnt follow that Liverpool deserves to take their place.

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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by futbollove on 14/02/14, 10:53 am

GrandTXSoccer wrote:Lefty,

ECNL is not about development it's about $$$, just like academy soccer in NTX is about $$$ and not too much development.
Now this is the argument LP should make to the ECNL body. Simply substitute the words academy soccer with LP and you're golden. lol! 
I kid.
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