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JD's departure from FCD

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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by Guest on Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:15 pm

Huge doesnt equal quality. Have you once put forth an argument for the quality on the field? What happens WHEN LW bolts for ECNL with his cubs?

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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by Lefty on Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:17 pm

silentparent wrote:Let's see an organization growing,  raising millions for new facilities,  huge academy program vs a D'Feeters with 15 teams total in select  and academy  and mediocre facilities....

No argument on Feet, and if they must pass on, I as a parent/consumer would rather see them and the ECNL spot go to an organization like Rush.  

They have a demonstrated track record in multiple locations nationally of producing soccer results vs Liverpool who has a demonstrated track record of producing income to the club in the absence of soccer results.


Last edited by Lefty on Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by Guest on Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:21 pm

Hmm do you give it to rush w no infrastructure and no teams of any great importance? When, in 10 years?

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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by Guest on Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:26 pm

I wouldnt give it to anyone in NTX if someone lost it... less would make the group stronger... ok, ok, i.would give it to Kicks. Homer here. Haha

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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by bwgophers on Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:20 am

I find it interesting that most people just assume that if you reduced the # of ECNL clubs in NTX down to 4 or 3, that you would end up with a higher concentration of top talent at those clubs.  I don't necessarily see where that would be the case.  I would imagine that the 1 or 2 clubs that got locked out of ECNL would double down their focus on Premier/National league, which would still provide a viable option for college exposure, while affording the same level of club/coach choice to players in NTX.

4-3-3 put in some serious time to do the research, and clearly showed that while ECNL is currently "King" in NTX for the path to D1 scholly's, it is not necessarily the case across the US as a whole.  Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think ECNL has necessarily changed the landscape in NTX with regards to which clubs are tops in developing and placing the top local talent in colleges.  Other than FC Dallas coming on the scene in recent years, haven't D'Feeters, Solar, Sting, and Texans pretty much dominated the girls side for the past decade or so, before and after the advent of ECNL?  I doubt that would change significantly if 1 or 2 of them dropped out or were booted from ECNL.

Also (and I'm asking a legitimate question here that I don't know the answer to), is NTX truly any less competitive on the national scale in ECNL today, than they were in the few years of Premier/National League competition prior to the formation of ECNL?

Reducing the # of ECNL clubs in NTX wouldn't reduce the # of clubs in NTX, and I don't see the fickle NTX soccer community limiting their choices to just 2 or 3 clubs.

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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by boilerjoe_96 on Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:31 am

bwgophers wrote:

Reducing the # of ECNL clubs in NTX wouldn't reduce the # of clubs in NTX, and I don't see the fickle NTX soccer community limiting their choices to just 2 or 3 clubs.

and yet clubs are selling ECNL to 6 and 7 year olds trying to get the fickle parents to do just that.

I only have a U7 and she does play for LP.  I really could care less what her jersey says, or what color, coaching is what I am looking for... So my experience/knowledge is dwarfed by you all...but...

Look at LP for 03s to 07s.

03:  3 of the top 12 teams
04:  3 of the top 9
05:  3 of top 8
06:  2 of top 9
07:  3 of top 10

So LP is having success at developing some talent at the academy level...not every coach, but there are certainly a handful that know what they are doing..  

Now look at Feet

U8 ranked 20(just came from Sparta) and 22
U9 11th
U10 32nd

And LH D1:

U11 15th out of 20
U12 10th out of 10
U13 3rd out of 10(year before ECNL???)
U14 No team
U15 No team
U16 No team
U17 No team

Wow is that telling... no academy program, U13 the year before ECNL is the only relevant team, and while the ECNL team is doing well they don't exist U14 and above in D1.

If the 04 LP girls continue to dominate I am sure at some point prior to ECNL they will leave as well.  I would w my dd.

Lack of ECNL is certainly hurting LP in the select levels.  Most parents dream that their little 'Mia' plays ECNL, you can't get that at present with LP, so move to a club with it and their little Mia can work her way up...  Assuming my dd is good enough, I probably wouldn't stay much past U11 or U12 if there isn't ECNL at LP. (again note Feet's U13 team)

Granted my view is limited from a corner of the Metroplex with only a U7, but Defeeters has their players and their select teams because they are part of the choosen few who have an invitation to the party.  Without the invitation... well, there doesn't seem to be much of a draw(this is based on the facts above)

Again, I do not have the vast amount of NTX soccer knowledge you all have, so bash away... I am sure you all will tell me where I am wrong, Lots of LP haters out there.
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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:57 am

Not a bash, but here goes. Your argument is built on what. Promises of Academy parents to not take their kid elsewhere, and the kid keeps playing...

If all those teams pan out 10 years from now and LP is churning them out like say Sting has, Texans have, DFeeters STILL does... then there is a point to argue.

Until that point LP is a cash cow that some coaches have latched onto the tit of and are milking it for all its worth. You and I have both had up close and personal experiences with one of those there.

The academy teams are not what you point to as the reason for getting anywhere, is it a POSSIBLE indicator of the future, yes... but they have to keep it together.

The flagship most pointed at in LP for select was CP.. with Solar now, took his 2 select teams and dominant 05 academy team with him. Next up LW.

I hope he stays put at LP, stick it out, do it without ECNL, but to a coach... thats a mighty tough thing to turn down. $$ talks...

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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:00 am

this is part of the point, without ecnl, dfeeters die. that's what the established clubs want, let clubs like LP have massive academy programs then say to those parents and coaches, well they dont have ecnl so you need to bring your kid or team here. cynical.

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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:07 am

You keep bringing up the MASSIVE academy program. What exactly is the point of that. Have you seen the vast majority of the teams in that MASSIVE academy program.

Dont get me wrong, every kid should have a place to play, but dont hang your hat on the fact that "We have more than you do"

Honestly that is one of the biggest knocks on that club. So many teams of horrible caliber. Why not just start their own recreational development league and let them play. Instead of any kid that shows up, lets slap some Warrior gear on them, hit em for $90 a month, and lets not forget to get them the informational packet on the mandatory fundraisers. Is it still $100 per to opt out?

Go with quality over quantity, if ALL their teams were of quality they could charge whatever the heck they wanted and still make money for them.

Isnt LFS charging $160 per month, just for training... haha

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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by go99 on Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:18 am

personally I would rather win a national title, surf cup, dallas girls cup, vegas, etc and be one of one rather than go be one of over 50. Watched the u17 disney this year with the #1 ranked girls (according to the announcers) in the US in the finals. They were not ECNL. A quick stroll thru the internets and guess what they were all signed to college too and many to bigger schools than some of the local ECNL girls. It's all about eyeballs. Win enough and they will come to see you. Don't and you will have to go to them (ECNL). ECNL has no connection to US soccer and is little more than a marketing vehicle to prop up member clubs. That being said LP as an organization will have to do what it takes to get into the ECNL and the Academy League if it wants to take that next step as a club. There is always a way in but so far I have not seen the focus, knowledge, or determination to get in. Just recently the boys launched the U13/14 academy age and had an application period to allow in other clubs who were not in the older age groups. LP did not apply and when I asked they had no idea about it.
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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by SD69 on Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:20 am

Yeah, but with that $160, you get a D'Feeter's and an ECNL link on the club website.
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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by go99 on Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:24 am

Borussia wrote:You keep bringing up the MASSIVE academy program.  What exactly is the point of that.  Have you seen the vast majority of the teams in that MASSIVE academy program.  

Dont get me wrong, every kid should have a place to play, but dont hang your hat on the fact that "We have more than you do"  

Honestly that is one of the biggest knocks on that club.  So many teams of horrible caliber.  Why not just start their own recreational development league and let them play.  Instead of any kid that shows up, lets slap some Warrior gear on them, hit em for $90 a month, and lets not forget to get them the informational packet on the mandatory fundraisers.  Is it still $100 per to opt out?

Go with quality over quantity, if ALL their teams were of quality they could charge whatever the heck they wanted and still make money for them.  

Isnt LFS charging $160 per month, just for training... haha

The point of academy is to be MASSIVE. The bigger your talent pool the better the talent you can get from it. So you shouldn't focus on the horrible teams because it's about players not teams and at 8 you do not know who will be truly great. Now on too Defeeters the problem there is ECNL is supposed to be a development vehicle but they don't have a big enough academy to feed their own teams so they are down to essentially recruiting teams
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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:32 am

silentparent wrote:this is part of the point, without ecnl, dfeeters die. that's what the established clubs want, let clubs like LP have massive academy programs then say to those parents and coaches, well they dont have ecnl so you need to bring your kid or team here. cynical.

I don't think so. The things important to a teenage player are different than a 6,7,8 year-old. Feet has shown, even prior to ECNL, they bring value to the college bound player. No one can argue ECNL hasn't helped feet tremendously. I think thats clear in looking at their ability to recruit entire teams and players in recent years. But to say they would've died without ECNL is speculation without evidence. I'm sure in the last few decades folks have said their model was outdated and they were done...don't see why the current batch would be anymore right than those of the past.

And success at academy age is fleeting. Teams and coaches move around all the time. For the most part all you're doing is preselecting kids whose parents started paying money for specialized training the earliest. You dont find out the true talent until much later than u5/u6/u7. Not only that, but its a different skillset coaching 14/15/16 year olds. The number of coaches who can do it well are far fewer than those who can build a winning ulittle powerhouse (which frankly doesnt take much).

Until you put at least one top quality select team all the way through without getting poached, there is really NOTHING to compare with clubs that have done it for years.

I'll admit I'm not fully in the know because I've only seen 04 rase and not a lot of their other top academy teams. But from what I've seen of SELECT age Liverpool teams, I ask myself the question, "Would it be better for NTX to see a bunch more select teams running around playing like Liverpool, or playing like feet?"

The answer to that is why Liverpool deserve to continue building volume with academy teams and feet (and others) deserve to be entrusted with players aiming towards higher level soccer.

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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by outonthelimb on Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:46 am

Can't we all just get along? I think Feet/LP can.  LP can be the farm system and why would the parents care?  You can negotiate a free uniform package when your team changes club in mass.  

Problem 1:  Feet has no academy pipeline.
Problem 2:  LP has no ECNL future

Solution 1:  LW develops them...Feet gets the best of the LW girls for their ECNL team.  LP keeps the rest.
Solution 2:  LW develops them...Feet gets the best of the LW girls for their ECNL team.  LP keeps the rest.

Gleeful cheer1:  Feet keeps their ECNL spot and continues to do well.
Gleeful cheer2:  LW parents/kids can play together in ECNL
Satisfied cheer3:  LP remains a cash cow in Academy and the proprietors remain "satisfied"....not happy but "satisfied"


It seems like this model can work and may already be at play in the next few years.

Feet '99 ECNL = Formerly Solar Bones
Feet '00 ECNL = Formerly Solar Shaw
Feet '01 ECNL = Kicks '01 girls
Feet '02 ECNL = Andromeda/Rush/Sting combo?
Feet '03 ECNL = LP Elite
Feet '04 ECNL = LP Elite
Feet '05 ECNL = LP/Rush Combo?
Feet '06 ECNL = Kicks '06
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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:58 am

I have a better idea, give the spot to clubs that aren't resting on faded glory and connections and give it to a growing club with money and a future. Dfeeters are dying and I think should merge with lp, get the ecnl experience with a massive player base...

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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:05 am

4-3-3 wrote:
silentparent wrote:this is part of the point, without ecnl, dfeeters die. that's what the established clubs want, let clubs like LP have massive academy programs then say to those parents and coaches, well they dont have ecnl so you need to bring your kid or team here. cynical.

I don't think so. The things important to a teenage player are different than a 6,7,8 year-old. Feet has shown, even prior to ECNL, they bring value to the college bound player. No one can argue ECNL hasn't helped feet tremendously. I think thats clear in looking at their ability to recruit entire teams and players in recent years. But to say they would've died without ECNL is speculation without evidence. I'm sure in the last few decades folks have said their model was outdated and they were done...don't see why the current batch would be anymore right than those of the past.

And success at academy age is fleeting. Teams and coaches move around all the time. For the most part all you're doing is preselecting kids whose parents started paying money for specialized training the earliest. You dont find out the true talent until much later than u5/u6/u7. Not only that, but its a different skillset coaching 14/15/16 year olds. The number of coaches who can do it well are far fewer than those who can build a winning ulittle powerhouse (which frankly doesnt take much).

Until you put at least one top quality select team all the way through without getting poached, there is really NOTHING to compare with clubs that have done it for years.

I'll admit I'm not fully in the know because I've only seen 04 rase and not a lot of their other top academy teams. But from what I've seen of SELECT age Liverpool teams, I ask myself the question, "Would it be better for NTX to see a bunch more select teams running around playing like Liverpool, or playing like feet?"

The answer to that is why Liverpool deserve to continue building volume with academy teams and feet (and others) deserve to be entrusted with players aiming towards higher level soccer.


Playing like feet? Did you see boiler joes post, where is the great select expertise in those teams?

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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:06 am

outonthelimb wrote:Can't we all just get along? I think Feet/LP can.  LP can be the farm system and why would the parents care?  You can negotiate a free uniform package when your team changes club in mass.  

Problem 1:  Feet has no academy pipeline.
Problem 2:  LP has no ECNL future

Solution 1:  LW develops them...Feet gets the best of the LW girls for their ECNL team.  LP keeps the rest.
Solution 2:  LW develops them...Feet gets the best of the LW girls for their ECNL team.  LP keeps the rest.

Gleeful cheer1:  Feet keeps their ECNL spot and continues to do well.
Gleeful cheer2:  LW parents/kids can play together in ECNL
Satisfied cheer3:  LP remains a cash cow in Academy and the proprietors remain "satisfied"....not happy but "satisfied"


It seems like this model can work and may already be at play in the next few years.

Feet '99 ECNL = Formerly Solar Bones
Feet '00 ECNL = Formerly Solar Shaw  
Feet '01 ECNL = Kicks '01 girls
Feet '02 ECNL = Andromeda/Rush/Sting combo?
Feet '03 ECNL = LP Elite
Feet '04 ECNL = LP Elite
Feet '05 ECNL = LP/Rush Combo?
Feet '06 ECNL = Kicks '06

The Kicks becoming Feet ECNL is cute, but wont be happening. I would put money on that. haha

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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:06 am

Btw this is not a lp commercial, they just happen to be the club in this position, it could be any club that is similar to where lp is now...

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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:08 am

Now Kicks taking over Feet and their ECNL bid, I would like to see that one.

ECNL Kicks '06 Selecao

That has a nice ring to it.

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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:10 am

Borussia wrote:Now Kicks taking over Feet and their ECNL bid, I would like to see that one.  

ECNL Kicks '06 Selecao

That has a nice ring to it.

Gotta love a homer dad, lol

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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:13 am

go99 wrote:
Borussia wrote:You keep bringing up the MASSIVE academy program.  What exactly is the point of that.  Have you seen the vast majority of the teams in that MASSIVE academy program.  

Dont get me wrong, every kid should have a place to play, but dont hang your hat on the fact that "We have more than you do"  

Honestly that is one of the biggest knocks on that club.  So many teams of horrible caliber.  Why not just start their own recreational development league and let them play.  Instead of any kid that shows up, lets slap some Warrior gear on them, hit em for $90 a month, and lets not forget to get them the informational packet on the mandatory fundraisers.  Is it still $100 per to opt out?

Go with quality over quantity, if ALL their teams were of quality they could charge whatever the heck they wanted and still make money for them.  

Isnt LFS charging $160 per month, just for training... haha

The point of academy is to be MASSIVE.  The bigger your talent pool the better the talent you can get from it.  So you shouldn't focus on the horrible teams because it's about players not teams and at 8 you do not know who will be truly great.  Now on too Defeeters the problem there is ECNL is supposed to be a development vehicle but they don't have a big enough academy to feed their own teams so they are down to essentially recruiting teams

Bigger does not always equal better. Do the people that actually know what they are doing run that same model. Barca, Real, Bayern, Atletico, etc...

I know, I know, totally different beast with an actual reward at the end of the tunnel and fully funded by the mother club. But you dont see Barca with 50 teams per age group and they seem to be doing something right.

And yes, I am a homer! and proud of it.

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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:15 am

Barca? No club in texas is worthy of being in the same sentence as barca, now back to our regularly scheduled cat fight...

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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by go99 on Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:17 am

there is nothing magical in the deefeter water. They offer nothing different. They are able to recruit and fill teams because they have the golden lottery ticket of the ECNL. Take that and you will instantly see the flock of players going over dry up.
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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:18 am

What the heck was this thread about to begin with... yall made me break my New Years resolution, dang it.

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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:19 am

go99 wrote:there is nothing magical in the deefeter water.  They offer nothing different.  They are able to recruit and fill teams because they have the golden lottery ticket of the ECNL.  Take that and you will instantly see the flock of players going over dry up.


Yep my point throughout this exactly, take it away and they die....and they know that. The other clubs are fine with defeeters having it because it doesn't threaten them....

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Re: JD's departure from FCD

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:23 am

go99 wrote:there is nothing magical in the deefeter water.  They offer nothing different.  They are able to recruit and fill teams because they have the golden lottery ticket of the ECNL.  Take that and you will instantly see the flock of players going over dry up.

Problem you guys have is you cant take it. There is a better chance of say LW going to Feet to become the next ECNL squad than of Feet loosing their spot at the table. Boiler posted their ECNL standings.. I believe all but one was in the top half of the table. That alone would keep em in, and the next coach with his studly team will come over. No shame in that, some will, some wont...

Im stubborn and would love to see it done without. Thats why my family attends Kicks 01 games and cheer for those girls. Great kids, great parents, and a brand of football I hope to see my kid play down the road. Could give two rats at this point if there is an ECNL patch on her back. Players of that caliber, playing at a high level nationally will be seen with help from the parent and the coach(s). It can be done, will just take more work.

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