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What is fundamentally wrong with NTX soccer?

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What is fundamentally wrong with NTX soccer?

Post by NoFanOfDrama on 17/03/14, 11:38 am

Looking at the player pool for the girls/womens U-15, U-17 and U-18 US national teams, there is a total of 6 (six) players from North Texas representing. SIX!!! California, Colorado and Virginia seem to be the states dominating our national team rosters.

What is fundamentally wrong with how we are teaching our girls to play soccer? You would think with all the self-proclaimed greatness North Texans have about our sports that we would have a tremendous presence in our national teams - but we don't.

Could it be because of the NTx philosophy that if you aren't winning you aren't doing something right?

Perhaps it's because we come up with ridiculous rules like "Player Pass" so we can skirt player development in the name of keeping a LHGCL spot?

Perhaps it's because the big clubs have become focused on making money instead of developing players?

Perhaps it's because physical play (sheer athleticism) is encouraged and celebrated rather than skill?

Something is completely wrong with the approach NTx is taking. The proof is in the national team pudding - we are getting our butts handed to us when it comes to national team selections.

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Re: What is fundamentally wrong with NTX soccer?

Post by Guest on 17/03/14, 12:03 pm

NoFanOfDrama wrote:Looking at the player pool for the girls/womens U-15, U-17 and U-18 US national teams, there is a total of 6 (six) players from North Texas representing.  SIX!!!  California, Colorado and Virginia seem to be the states dominating our national team rosters.

What is fundamentally wrong with how we are teaching our girls to play soccer?  You would think with all the self-proclaimed greatness North Texans have about our sports that we would have a tremendous presence in our national teams - but we don't.

Could it be because of the NTx philosophy that if you aren't winning you aren't doing something right?  

Perhaps it's because we come up with ridiculous rules like "Player Pass" so we can skirt player development in the name of keeping a LHGCL spot?

Perhaps it's because the big clubs have become focused on making money instead of developing players?

Perhaps it's because physical play (sheer athleticism) is encouraged and celebrated rather than skill?

Something is completely wrong with the approach NTx is taking.  The proof is in the national team pudding - we are getting our butts handed to us when it comes to national team selections.


Full size fields too early, 11v11 too early, not enough emphasis on pass and move, not enough skill and first touch being taught, all about size and athleticism from a young age, too worried about rankings, too worried about winning, oh and some seriously cr*p coaches out there.

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Re: What is fundamentally wrong with NTX soccer?

Post by WingNut on 17/03/14, 12:25 pm

Master Bates wrote:
NoFanOfDrama wrote:Looking at the player pool for the girls/womens U-15, U-17 and U-18 US national teams, there is a total of 6 (six) players from North Texas representing.  SIX!!!  California, Colorado and Virginia seem to be the states dominating our national team rosters.

What is fundamentally wrong with how we are teaching our girls to play soccer?  You would think with all the self-proclaimed greatness North Texans have about our sports that we would have a tremendous presence in our national teams - but we don't.

Could it be because of the NTx philosophy that if you aren't winning you aren't doing something right?  

Perhaps it's because we come up with ridiculous rules like "Player Pass" so we can skirt player development in the name of keeping a LHGCL spot?

Perhaps it's because the big clubs have become focused on making money instead of developing players?

Perhaps it's because physical play (sheer athleticism) is encouraged and celebrated rather than skill?

Something is completely wrong with the approach NTx is taking.  The proof is in the national team pudding - we are getting our butts handed to us when it comes to national team selections.


Full size fields too early, 11v11 too early, not enough emphasis on pass and move, not enough skill and first touch being taught, all about size and athleticism from a young age, too worried about rankings, too worried about winning, oh and some seriously cr*p coaches out there.

 cheers
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Re: What is fundamentally wrong with NTX soccer?

Post by NoFanOfDrama on 17/03/14, 12:30 pm

Master B, I think you read my mind.

Do you think 11 v 11 is shoved down our throats so early because of the financial benefit of having larger rosters at younger ages? Or does NTS really think there is a benefit playing 11v11 so early?
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Re: What is fundamentally wrong with NTX soccer?

Post by GrandTXSoccer on 17/03/14, 12:40 pm

Master Bates pretty much nailed it. My biggest gripe is the move to 11v11 so bloody early. We take kids that can't make a good pass on a small field and move them to the big field and pretty much force them to learn how to kick the ball harder (control be damned) and then wonder why all the kids know how to do is play kick ball. I have no doubt that it's financially motivated and until clubs like Solar, LP, Sting and the Texans decide to change things up it's not going to change. However I don't think any of them have deep enough pockets to make any changes.

I think the way NTX soccer is set up is that it burns too many kids out way too early. My DD stopped playing when she was around 15 and eventually stopped playing in HS too. She was simply tired of it and quite honestly I don't blame her. Players on even middle of the road teams end up doing something soccer related 3 to 4 days out of the week. What kid wouldn't grow to hate the game?


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Re: What is fundamentally wrong with NTX soccer?

Post by Guest on 17/03/14, 12:41 pm

NoFanOfDrama wrote:Master B, I think you read my mind.

Do you think 11 v 11 is shoved down our throats so early because of the financial benefit of having larger rosters at younger ages?  Or does NTS really think there is a benefit playing 11v11 so early?

I think it tends to be because of the larger rosters. I hate it and think its detrimental to development. Kids don't need to play this until they are 13 IMO.

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Re: What is fundamentally wrong with NTX soccer?

Post by Guest on 17/03/14, 12:54 pm

Bash'em style that I see most every weekend is not what I see being played at the highest levels, and I'm not referring to ECNL as the highest level, because it isn't. This begs the question, how do you teach a player to play skilled, possession, pass and move, move and pass, fundamentally sound soccer, while condoning and even encouraging bash'em style. I don't think you can. I don't see bash'em at the highest levels and the longer we allow that style of play to exist, the less likely our kids are to play at the highest levels.  Every game I have ever seen in NTX, the more physical team is at a clear advantage because so many fouls are not called. That leads to one of two outcomes.  Either one team becomes intimidated, which puts them at a disadvantage.  Or, the game becomes a slugfest.  Regardless, allowing so many fouls to go unchecked does not lead to better soccer.  It leads to more fouling or else you will be at a disadvantage.  The best teams that I see don't play smash mouth.  They run you to death, and carve you up like a thanksgiving turkey with passing and movement.  I do love smash mouth football, but I do not love smash mouth futball.

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Re: What is fundamentally wrong with NTX soccer?

Post by Guest on 17/03/14, 12:59 pm

Master Bates wrote:
NoFanOfDrama wrote:Master B, I think you read my mind.

Do you think 11 v 11 is shoved down our throats so early because of the financial benefit of having larger rosters at younger ages?  Or does NTS really think there is a benefit playing 11v11 so early?

I think it tends to be because of the larger rosters. I hate it and think its detrimental to development. Kids don't need to play this until they are 13 IMO.

We are asking kids with bodies that are not yet fully developed to run a number of miles per game and we are insisting they use all the skills they have developed over the last few years. Are we insane? Go to a boys or girls U10 gàme and I'll guarantee you the small most skilfill player is getting knocked off the ball or the ball is flying over their head.

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Re: What is fundamentally wrong with NTX soccer?

Post by Guest on 17/03/14, 01:02 pm

ntx soccer is a money grab plain and simple. 18 person rosters at u11? give me a break.

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Re: What is fundamentally wrong with NTX soccer?

Post by good4nuthin on 17/03/14, 01:03 pm

Lack of emphasis of basic fundamentals, which takes time, effort, patience and failure. Extra sessions, 3v3, futsal, 6v6? Parents do not want to hear or waste their time on that crap. They want little Susie to be the best. NOW.

So they take their future gifted soccer player to the team with the best record. The run fast, kick hard strategy only lasts a few years until skilled players pass her by. Little Susie sees less and less play time. Parents are overheard saying that soccer just isn't Susie's thing anymore and they want her to spend more time with friends, just be a kid or maybe focus on basketball, volleyball or cross country.

Loss of potentially talented soccer players due to moronic, egotistical parents. NTX biggest cancer.
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Re: What is fundamentally wrong with NTX soccer?

Post by Guest on 17/03/14, 01:06 pm

GrandTXSoccer wrote:

I think the way NTX soccer is set up is that it burns too many kids out way too early. My DD stopped playing when she was around 15 and eventually stopped playing in HS too. She was simply tired of it and quite honestly I don't blame her. Players on even middle of the road teams end up doing something soccer related 3 to 4 days out of the week. What kid wouldn't grow to hate the game?


I agree with this.  I am not sure that it is unique to NTX or/and soccer, but it does not surprise me when I hear about a DD giving up soccer.

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Re: What is fundamentally wrong with NTX soccer?

Post by Guest on 17/03/14, 01:08 pm

good4nuthin wrote:Lack of emphasis of basic fundamentals, which takes time, effort, patience and failure. Extra sessions, 3v3, futsal, 6v6? Parents do not want to hear or waste their time on that crap. They want little Susie to be the best. NOW.

So they take their future gifted soccer player to the team with the best record. The run fast, kick hard strategy only lasts a few years until skilled players pass her by. Little Susie sees less and less play time. Parents are overheard saying that soccer just isn't Susie's thing anymore and they want her to spend more time with friends, just be a kid or maybe focus on basketball, volleyball or cross country.

Loss of potentially talented soccer players due to moronic, egotistical parents. NTX biggest cancer.

Nailed it! If I had the last few years again I'd take my BB out of his top 5 team and put him on a team that played 8v8 til the last possible moment. He still plays but I see the love for soccer has all but gone he has almost become a robot when playing. There's a lesson in parenting a kid in soccer for you.

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Re: What is fundamentally wrong with NTX soccer?

Post by Sho'Nuff on 17/03/14, 01:10 pm

Too many rich kids.

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Re: What is fundamentally wrong with NTX soccer?

Post by Guest on 17/03/14, 01:16 pm

you see the problem..big and bigger kids. not better kids, big kids who can run fast, knock people off the ball, plow through someone, its a fast track to winning...not skills

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Re: What is fundamentally wrong with NTX soccer?

Post by Guest on 17/03/14, 01:17 pm

good4nuthin wrote:
Loss of potentially talented soccer players due to moronic, egotistical parents. NTX biggest cancer.

Blunt, but well said.  I guess if you do have a DD that enjoys soccer, the biggest challenge is to nurture their desire to play without robbing them of the joy of the game.

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Re: What is fundamentally wrong with NTX soccer?

Post by oldboot on 17/03/14, 01:27 pm

It's the demise of black, leather soccer boots. Colorful, plastic track shoes sold as soccer boots are killing the sport!
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Re: What is fundamentally wrong with NTX soccer?

Post by Coach&Ref on 17/03/14, 01:32 pm

I agree with the problem of going 11v11 WAY too soon. A lot of other countries are still playing 7v7/8v8 until 14 or so. Think about this: If a pitch is legally allowed to be 120yds/100yds, what 10-11yo can switch the pitch at that age? Now I know the LH fields are not that large, but without measuring them, I would guess 100x70. It is still a huge distance.

Also, at these sizes, what is really the best way to cover all of that distance in order to be most effective? If you said, bypass the midfield and kicking it as hard as you can, then I would agree. This encourages fast/athletic kids in the front and back in order to clean up.

The problem with playing a "possession" style at this age is that it requires that most of the team have a superior touch. One or two players with problems with their first touch, will lead a team to get punished by the aforementioned style. Now, we have to understand that these are only 11yo kids and that their touch isn't going to be perfect, however, in order to play through the midfield with these big fields, requires that almost everyone (if not everyone) on the pitch has a great first touch, otherwise the kickball style is statistically the best option to winning given that: clubs only want to win, the sizes of the girls and pitch.

I really don't know if it all comes down to money, but it might. I wonder if the system could be changed to 7v7/8v8 until 13/14, that 1. clubs could field more teams with perhaps better quality on the top ones 2. it might develop players better for the times that national selections roll around.

The problem I see for NTX or LH/PPL would be the need for increased field numbers. Plus, for clubs, possibly more coaches.

The coaches of clubs may or may not be the problem. They have to work within the parameters that they have (pitches, skill quality, pressure to stay d1, etc.) If the system was to change, I just wonder if the coaching and development might be better,

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Re: What is fundamentally wrong with NTX soccer?

Post by oldboot on 17/03/14, 01:36 pm

The English FA wrestled with this dilemma and decided it was critical to the development of their youth to shrink the game.
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Re: What is fundamentally wrong with NTX soccer?

Post by db10 on 17/03/14, 01:38 pm

I thought some other states played 11v11 earlier than u12 as well?

Is the emphasis on winning at 10 years old preventing talent from being identified? Is the next Alex Morgan sitting on #78 in the FBR but doesnt get a shot because her parents don't want to pay for a big name club? Is she ignored because she's too raw and not good enough at the moment to play for a better coached team? Does she and/or her parents get tired of the game because the skill level around her isnt there at U9, U10, etc.? Is she lost in the shuffle because she's a late bloomer?

Do we hype up some of our coaches too much because they are affiliated with some club with a cool crest? Meanwhile he's teaching Suzy to just kick it ahead and someone will run under it. I've seen more than one "top 25" coach do this in a game. Meanwhile a team in the #40's is trying to do it the right way but cant keep players around her due to the pull of the bigger clubs and winning now?

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Re: What is fundamentally wrong with NTX soccer?

Post by TatonkaBurger on 17/03/14, 01:54 pm

I agree with these two great points:

1. The move to 11v11 too early

2. The extra physical play and the fact that NTX referees are too afraid to call fouls and clamp down on it
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Re: What is fundamentally wrong with NTX soccer?

Post by Son_ofa_Pitch on 17/03/14, 02:01 pm

So what's the difference in say, STX where 11v11 is not played at an earlier age and yet, they seem to be lagging behind?? There can't be that many "BAD" coaches that are not teaching fundamentals they right way..
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Re: What is fundamentally wrong with NTX soccer?

Post by Marvelousmar on 17/03/14, 02:04 pm

California Population  38 million
Texas Population 25.1  So about 48% more people.
California more of a soccer culture then Texas where it is growing but let's be honest American Football is king here and slowly soccer is making strides.

Let's look at the numbers Under 23 player pool  3 texans, 9 Cali
Under 20- 13 Cali 2 Texas
Under 18  3 Texas 13 Cali
Under 17  4 Texas  13 Cali
Under 15  6 Texas  19 Cali
In short Cali is kicking our butts when it comes to the pool selection a lot can be considered for the reason.  The above comments all have validity.  Too much emphasis on winning but it's Texas and I get it.  Not enough patience by parents and coaches.  Maybe it's just too dang hot.  Hard to get the training in during the summer months.  California weather more condussive to training  It would be nice to see it change but the above numbers support Cali's possition in Girls soccer.  Maybe the next crop of Texans should even the numbers and effect the view of Texas players.
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Re: What is fundamentally wrong with NTX soccer?

Post by Coach&Ref on 17/03/14, 02:24 pm

TatonkaBurger wrote:I agree with these two great points:

2. The extra physical play and the fact that NTX referees are too afraid to call fouls and clamp down on it

This is a good point and hopefully I can shed some light on this:

Straight red cards or two yellow=red require a nightmare, time consuming amount of paperwork for the ref depending on the venue (LH/PPL/APL/Tournies). There are things on there such as: field conditions, wind, direction of sun, etc. Then the CR has to write a description of the exact reason for the card(s). The ARs either have to write a description themselves or just sign off on the comments. It is a pain in the butt when all of that has to be done when the normal process is to simply hand in the game sheet. With also running from game to game, sometimes without a break (I've gone 7 games consecutively sprinting from pitch to pitch), they have to stay late to do it when completely exhausted.

Does the previous explanation make it right? Not at times, but refs also have sympathy for the kids playing. No ref WANTS to see a kid unable to play the next match. I have rarely had to issue a red and when I did, I had to take a deep breath, sigh and feel like hanging my head for having to do what was appropriate. It still made me feel like crap.  Sad

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Re: What is fundamentally wrong with NTX soccer?

Post by TheWolf on 17/03/14, 02:26 pm

1. Parents unwilling to stick with a coach who is willing to teach the game properly ("OMG, Suzie is playing defense?!? What's he doing?? We're outta here")

2. Not enough coaches willing to teach the game properly ("hmmm, do I keep parents happy and writing checks by winning at all costs or risk losing games and said checks...that's a tough one")

I've only seen a handful of teams playing the game properly....some try, which is great. But more often than not, the overall level of coaching and play around here laughable.
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