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ODP Camp Invitations

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Re: ODP Camp Invitations

Post by Coach&Ref on 05/05/14, 10:06 pm

imasoccerfreak wrote:
Coach&Ref wrote:
tex_gator wrote:$650 is better than $950 for my '00 to go to Alabama.  Go this year while its some what affordable.  I understand they alternate between AL and OK.

From my understanding its a week long evaluation (that includes coaching and scrimmaging) to determine who moves on to the national level ODP camp.

That would be great, especially for the scrimmaging portion, but I am still very wary of the disparity in the quality that is out there and if, through all the training they have had so far, they will separate the girls by what they already should alredy have seen are first and second team players.

This is huge factor in why my daughter is not liking ODP anymore. When the scrimmages are held at the end of training, she feels that the quality of the players that started at ODP are gone, leaving her to have no fun.

I'd like to know if they are going to train the first and second teams separately from the others.

Do you hear yourself? Do you realize how offensive that is? I'm SO sorry that your little goddess of soccer is not being challenged by the rest of the mere mortals left at ODP, since all the good kids have quit. It's bad enough that your ego over your kid is through the roof, but try to be a little less offensive.

Well, I'm sorry you think that. I was simply trying to gauge how the camp was conducted and organized, because I ABSOLUTELY believe there is a HUGE disparity in the quality of players.

If only 1-2 teams were invited, then one could assume that, out of the large pool, the top players were the ones that were going. If this was the case, then one would assume that their skills would be pretty similar.

If you want to think it's about ego over my daughter, then that's fine. You can think whatever you want, but if me, or anyone else for that matter, has the same concerns, I hope they can get their questions answered. I know where she currently sits in the roster of the ODP pool and don't care to have her out there if she isn't training with people her own level. Plus, she doesn't want to go without having those same questions answered.

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Re: ODP Camp Invitations

Post by meriusrex on 05/05/14, 11:54 pm

It's important that as a first year 02/03 you WANT as many teams to go as possible!! The experience (from HER eyes) will be well worth it and being "selected" to attend is an important part of building her self esteem and her drive to keep improving. The folks at ODP have been at this a long time and know what the journey looks like. Each players exposure to the camp environment from a training perspective will help them continue to progress and if they make the cut off over the next few years, they'll be better prepared to perform in the ODP evaluation/selection environment. Regardless of the number of teams going, when they return in the FALL they WILL BE with different players and different teams based on how they perform in OK. With that said though, these are 10/11 year old girls, still in the VERY EARLY stages of development...relax, it will all work out!!

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Re: ODP Camp Invitations

Post by SD69 on 06/05/14, 08:29 am

One of the issues in the disparity of players is the wide range of soccer ages in this year's ODP. Most play on '02 and '03 teams while a few even play on '04 teams (born in 03). We shouldn't expect the skills and physical attributes to be equal among these ranges, especially when the few play in academy while most play select. I would imagine that even when the '01s were training last year, there was a difference between them and the '02s with 2001 birthdays being as these girls play and train on a day to day basis with players that are on a year younger team. I'm sure that all the ODP programs across the US select their players based on birth year and not soccer year, but I think this is why my DD has difficulty keeping up with the speed of play of some of these other girls.

As far a separating the girls at camp based on quality, I'm sure this will be done. There may be some player movement, but the girls are already separated at practice based on abilities, so why wouldn't they do the same at camp? And in the one or two sub-regionals that were held, everyone wasn't invited to these either.

I agree with the poster above. Its their first camp, let them go for the fun and experience. Let them develop relationships. This has been one of the biggest challenges for my U10 and the primary reason she doesn't get super excited about going to practice. Most other girls have been with their friends since the very first practice since they play club games with and against each other. When they get old enough for regional camps there will be true selections made (two teams I think).

Keep in mind when you are commenting on the play, or lack of, of these U10/11/12 girls, that the ODP coaches didn't select these girls on skills/size/speed alone. A girl that has more size and speed compared to her peers now may not 2-3 years down the road. The coaches selected girls they thought could be coached into good players in the future. I know a lot of people diss the ODP program, but keep in mind that out of 27 girls on the U20 WNT, 24 went through the ODP program.
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Re: ODP Camp Invitations

Post by Coach&Ref on 06/05/14, 09:05 am

soccerdad1969 wrote:One of the issues in the disparity of players is the wide range of soccer ages in this year's ODP. Most play on '02 and '03 teams while a few even play on '04 teams (born in 03). We shouldn't expect the skills and physical attributes to be equal among these ranges, especially when the few play in academy while most play select. I would imagine that even when the '01s were training last year, there was a difference between them and the '02s with 2001 birthdays being as these girls play and train on a day to day basis with players that are on a year younger team. I'm sure that all the ODP programs across the US select their players based on birth year and not soccer year, but I think this is why my DD has difficulty keeping up with the speed of play of some of these other girls.

As far a separating the girls at camp based on quality, I'm sure this will be done. There may be some player movement, but the girls are already separated at practice based on abilities, so why wouldn't they do the same at camp? And in the one or two sub-regionals that were held, everyone wasn't invited to these either.

I agree with the poster above. Its their first camp, let them go for the fun and experience. Let them develop relationships. This has been one of the biggest challenges for my U10 and the primary reason she doesn't get super excited about going to practice. Most other girls have been with their friends since the very first practice since they play club games with and against each other. When they get old enough for regional camps there will be true selections made (two teams I think).

Keep in mind when you are commenting on the play, or lack of, of these U10/11/12 girls, that the ODP coaches didn't select these girls on skills/size/speed alone. A girl that has more size and speed compared to her peers now may not 2-3 years down the road. The coaches selected girls they thought could be coached into good players in the future. I know a lot of people diss the ODP program, but keep in mind that out of 27 girls on the U20 WNT, 24 went through the ODP program.

All, very good points. I think you are right about the building relationships as being important, and that there is a big growth spurt that happens that is quite evident between the 02s and 03s.

I also agree with the poster that said that it was a good value for the money. In the beginning, I totally agreed. The $300 cost for 10 practices (2.5hrs a day plus uniform and backpack/water bottle) was great!

Now, because of the decline, which was NOT me bringing it up to my daughter, but rather her to me, I felt sad. I wanted her to take advantage of the opportunities to go to these events. We have been to every practice and I guess it is something she noticed, especially since most of the girls I previously mentioned are her friends that were in the program, but now are not for various reasons.

When we got the invitation, I immediately told her about it and her immediate response was "No", before I could even give out the details. It was disheartening, because I would like her to have the experiences too, but didn't even get a chance to explain anything. That's why I came to the boards to try to get answers to talk give her the big picture and see if she would like to change her mind.

She plays when and where she wants to, so I can try to prevent burnout. All I can do is keep her informed and let her decide.

I'm just wondering if it isn't just better to jump back into ODP in a could of years when puberty has hit and the size/speed gap has closed and the footskill/soccer I.Q. will really rise to the top.

That just me thinking out loud, but you do have great points.

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Re: ODP Camp Invitations

Post by TheWolf on 06/05/14, 09:15 am

soccerdad1969 wrote: I know a lot of people diss the ODP program, but keep in mind that out of 27 girls on the U20 WNT, 24 went through the ODP program.

Uh huh...and how many of those were from NTX ODP? I think what's missing from our ODP is that exclusive, special, top notch talent feel. It's completely different from other ODP programs For ex: SOCAL, where it is a honor to be selected. Here, you get a cheap bag, rec looking kits, player parity and zero communication.

Its just not the same. Been said before, it's great experience for friends, get some extra work...heck, maybe its your DD's first time to travel and play? All good for experience if you're not getting it from your current club.

Wonder where the top players have gone? I'm betting they're getting all that from their club - and more, including national program exposure.
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Re: ODP Camp Invitations

Post by SD69 on 06/05/14, 09:28 am

TheWolf wrote:
soccerdad1969 wrote: I know a lot of people diss the ODP program, but keep in mind that out of 27 girls on the U20 WNT, 24 went through the ODP program.

Uh huh...and how many of those were from NTX ODP?  I think what's missing from our ODP is that exclusive, special, top notch talent feel.  It's completely different from other ODP programs  For ex: SOCAL, where it is a honor to be selected.  Here, you get a cheap bag, rec looking kits, player parity and zero communication.

Its just not the same. Been said before, it's great experience for friends, get some extra work...heck, maybe its your DD's first time to travel and play?  All good for experience if you're not getting it from your current club.

Wonder where the top players have gone?  I'm betting they're getting all that from their club - and more, including national program exposure.

Maybe if the top players would stick with it, more NTX girls would make it to the national level. They're obviously not getting there by their own means either. The bag is OK (aside from being purple), but I agree about the rec kit and the communication.
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Re: ODP Camp Invitations

Post by Guest on 06/05/14, 09:32 am

zero communication is right. IMO if your daughter is not early identified as 1 or 2 team material, you can forget about it. oh you can go to the practices and camps but the real teams will be going out of state to play AND be noticed....

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Re: ODP Camp Invitations

Post by TheWolf on 06/05/14, 11:11 am

soccerdad1969 wrote:
Maybe if the top players would stick with it, more NTX girls would make it to the national level.


I'm not taking a shot directly at you, but more to this overall thinking about "national level". Most 11-12 year olds probably think it would be awesome. Most parents dream of the accolades. Very, very, very few get invited - most don't have the overall package they look for - on and OFF the field. Sure you need to help them achieve and keep their dreams alive...but it takes more than connections and luck...ask yourself, does my kid have 3-4 things that make her standout in a tryout of 60+? And - whose to say if it might be better for her join the WNT program after maturing some more - so they themselves can own it?

sorry....rant off/////
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Re: ODP Camp Invitations

Post by justsayin02 on 06/05/14, 06:03 pm

quit complaining and ask your questions to the people who can really answer them, North Texas or possibly your admin.  when you go to the forum you are only hoping to get people to agree with you but how could you possibly be hoping to get answers, or if you do, how would you know they are correct??  ODP, didnt just look for the most talented players, they also had to have a great attitude and were very coach able.  if your kid doesnt make the teams at first dont quit, arent you teaching them that they dont have to earn it.  Coaches dont always see the same thing parents see in their kid, it may take a while for them to notice, or for your daughter to shine through (remember you are watching her mostly, they are watching many), it may take a while for the coach and your daughter to trust each other enough so he can coach her. (coachable) Also, FYI, the best players havent quit only a handful of players have left, the others were in tourneys, games or scrimmages during ODP practices.
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Re: ODP Camp Invitations

Post by oldboot on 06/05/14, 09:20 pm

Coach&Ref wrote:
imasoccerfreak wrote:Does any one else think sending SIX teams from 02/03 to camp is a little excessive? Are there 16-18 on each team? I know a lot of people think ODP is not that great anymore and all, but my DD loves it, and I'm all for keeping soccer fun for her. However, with 6 teams going, I can't imagine the player to coach ratio will allow for too much feedback. I'm not asking what everyone thinks of ODP (we all all well aware of how many of you feel on that subject)...I'm asking about past players CAMP experience. Worth it?

I have the same questions and concerns.

Also, is there any precedence for this?

Has NTX does this in the past (6 teams)?

How is the quality of the camp?

Do they have a different coach for each team (1st team, 2nd team) or are they just pooling the girls? If so, that would be horrible, since there is a HUGE gap in the quality of the ODP pool at the moment.

I've said this before, without getting into the details, but I'm really not sure about the ODP quality for this age group at the moment. My daughter loved it at first, but now doesn't want to go because it seems that a good number of top players have quit.

I think you are right on the money - keep the DD at home and rested so that when the National Team calls, she will be ready.
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Re: ODP Camp Invitations

Post by WestsideSoccer on 07/05/14, 09:31 am

oldboot wrote:
Coach&Ref wrote:
imasoccerfreak wrote:Does any one else think sending SIX teams from 02/03 to camp is a little excessive? Are there 16-18 on each team? I know a lot of people think ODP is not that great anymore and all, but my DD loves it, and I'm all for keeping soccer fun for her. However, with 6 teams going, I can't imagine the player to coach ratio will allow for too much feedback. I'm not asking what everyone thinks of ODP (we all all well aware of how many of you feel on that subject)...I'm asking about past players CAMP experience. Worth it?

I have the same questions and concerns.

Also, is there any precedence for this?

Has NTX does this in the past (6 teams)?

How is the quality of the camp?

Do they have a different coach for each team (1st team, 2nd team) or are they just pooling the girls? If so, that would be horrible, since there is a HUGE gap in the quality of the ODP pool at the moment.

I've said this before, without getting into the details, but I'm really not sure about the ODP quality for this age group at the moment. My daughter loved it at first, but now doesn't want to go because it seems that a good number of top players have quit.

I think you are right on the money - keep the DD at home and rested so that when the National Team calls, she will be ready.

You should attend ODP and Camps! NTX ODP and South Texas ODP must doing something right, look at how many NTX and STX players are on the U15 National Team!!!! You can't get ID and the opportunity to be a National team player unless you put your self out there and get the exposure and training. ODP is a great way to get that opportunity. Lots of Texas Players in the National team Pools.  

http://www.ussoccer.com/us-under15-girls-national-team/2013-player-pool

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Re: ODP Camp Invitations

Post by Zizou on 07/05/14, 09:55 am

WestsideSoccer wrote:
oldboot wrote:
Coach&Ref wrote:
imasoccerfreak wrote:Does any one else think sending SIX teams from 02/03 to camp is a little excessive? Are there 16-18 on each team? I know a lot of people think ODP is not that great anymore and all, but my DD loves it, and I'm all for keeping soccer fun for her. However, with 6 teams going, I can't imagine the player to coach ratio will allow for too much feedback. I'm not asking what everyone thinks of ODP (we all all well aware of how many of you feel on that subject)...I'm asking about past players CAMP experience. Worth it?

I have the same questions and concerns.

Also, is there any precedence for this?

Has NTX does this in the past (6 teams)?

How is the quality of the camp?

Do they have a different coach for each team (1st team, 2nd team) or are they just pooling the girls? If so, that would be horrible, since there is a HUGE gap in the quality of the ODP pool at the moment.

I've said this before, without getting into the details, but I'm really not sure about the ODP quality for this age group at the moment. My daughter loved it at first, but now doesn't want to go because it seems that a good number of top players have quit.

I think you are right on the money - keep the DD at home and rested so that when the National Team calls, she will be ready.

You should attend ODP and Camps! NTX ODP and South Texas ODP must doing something right, look at how many NTX and STX players are on the U15 National Team!!!! You can't get ID and the opportunity to be a National team player unless you put your self out there and get the exposure and training. ODP is a great way to get that opportunity.   Lots of Texas Players in the National team Pools.   

http://www.ussoccer.com/us-under15-girls-national-team/2013-player-pool


I don't know that any of these players were identified through ODP. Those players on the list are ECNL players that were probably identified through id2.

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Re: ODP Camp Invitations

Post by Zizou on 07/05/14, 09:57 am

[quote="Zizou"]
WestsideSoccer wrote:
oldboot wrote:
Coach&Ref wrote:
imasoccerfreak wrote:Does any one else think sending SIX teams from 02/03 to camp is a little excessive? Are there 16-18 on each team? I know a lot of people think ODP is not that great anymore and all, but my DD loves it, and I'm all for keeping soccer fun for her. However, with 6 teams going, I can't imagine the player to coach ratio will allow for too much feedback. I'm not asking what everyone thinks of ODP (we all all well aware of how many of you feel on that subject)...I'm asking about past players CAMP experience. Worth it?

I have the same questions and concerns.

Also, is there any precedence for this?

Has NTX does this in the past (6 teams)?

How is the quality of the camp?

Do they have a different coach for each team (1st team, 2nd team) or are they just pooling the girls? If so, that would be horrible, since there is a HUGE gap in the quality of the ODP pool at the moment.

I've said this before, without getting into the details, but I'm really not sure about the ODP quality for this age group at the moment. My daughter loved it at first, but now doesn't want to go because it seems that a good number of top players have quit.

I think you are right on the money - keep the DD at home and rested so that when the National Team calls, she will be ready.

You should attend ODP and Camps! NTX ODP and South Texas ODP must doing something right, look at how many NTX and STX players are on the U15 National Team!!!! You can't get ID and the opportunity to be a National team player unless you put your self out there and get the exposure and training. ODP is a great way to get that opportunity.   Lots of Texas Players in the National team Pools.   

http://www.ussoccer.com/us-under15-girls-national-team/2013-player-pool


I don't know that any of these players were identified through ODP. Those players on the list are ECNL players that were probably identified through id2 that is sponsored by Nike.

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Re: ODP Camp Invitations

Post by 02Dad on 07/05/14, 10:15 am

Zizou wrote:
Zizou wrote:
WestsideSoccer wrote:
oldboot wrote:
Coach&Ref wrote:
imasoccerfreak wrote:Does any one else think sending SIX teams from 02/03 to camp is a little excessive? Are there 16-18 on each team? I know a lot of people think ODP is not that great anymore and all, but my DD loves it, and I'm all for keeping soccer fun for her. However, with 6 teams going, I can't imagine the player to coach ratio will allow for too much feedback. I'm not asking what everyone thinks of ODP (we all all well aware of how many of you feel on that subject)...I'm asking about past players CAMP experience. Worth it?

I have the same questions and concerns.

Also, is there any precedence for this?

Has NTX does this in the past (6 teams)?

How is the quality of the camp?

Do they have a different coach for each team (1st team, 2nd team) or are they just pooling the girls? If so, that would be horrible, since there is a HUGE gap in the quality of the ODP pool at the moment.

I've said this before, without getting into the details, but I'm really not sure about the ODP quality for this age group at the moment. My daughter loved it at first, but now doesn't want to go because it seems that a good number of top players have quit.

I think you are right on the money - keep the DD at home and rested so that when the National Team calls, she will be ready.

You should attend ODP and Camps! NTX ODP and South Texas ODP must doing something right, look at how many NTX and STX players are on the U15 National Team!!!! You can't get ID and the opportunity to be a National team player unless you put your self out there and get the exposure and training. ODP is a great way to get that opportunity.   Lots of Texas Players in the National team Pools.   

http://www.ussoccer.com/us-under15-girls-national-team/2013-player-pool


I don't know that any of these players were identified through ODP. Those players on the list are ECNL players that were probably identified through id2 that is sponsored by Nike.

Info on the u-15 pool from their website:

"The player pool is identified on a year-round basis, through U.S. Soccer Training Centers, club soccer, ODP interregional events and the U.S. U-14 Girls’ National Team camps."

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Re: ODP Camp Invitations

Post by Guest on 07/05/14, 10:29 am

Zizou wrote:
I don't know that any of these players were identified through ODP. Those players on the list are ECNL players that were probably identified through id2 that is sponsored by Nike.

I'm not sure that's true. It looks to me id2 is calling in players already identified by USSF scouts, and a large # of those players have also done ODP at some point.

ODP players who make interregional competitions appear to be at least as highly sought after as id2 invitees.

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Re: ODP Camp Invitations

Post by Zizou on 07/05/14, 10:46 am

4-3-3 wrote:
Zizou wrote:
I don't know that any of these players were identified through ODP. Those players on the list are ECNL players that were probably identified through id2 that is sponsored by Nike.

I'm not sure that's true. It looks to me id2 is calling in players already identified by USSF scouts, and a large # of those players have also done ODP at some point.

ODP players who make  interregional competitions appear to be at least as highly sought after as id2 invitees.  

Well I guess we are just going to have to disagree on this one! Lol


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Re: ODP Camp Invitations

Post by Guest on 07/05/14, 11:01 am

You can do what I did and come to your own conclusion. Go to google docs recruiting list and filter for commits that had odp interregional competition in their profile. Take note of the schools those players are attending.  

At one point I rolled up their average RPI, and the only group going to better schools (by RPI) were the girls listing national team pool on their profile.

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Re: ODP Camp Invitations

Post by Guest on 07/05/14, 11:12 am

i will say what someone advised me. next time you go to ODP look around and ask yourself can these girls make my daughter's team? doesnt matter what level you play at. if the answer is yes or absolutely yes, odp is probably worth it to you, if the answer is no or hell no, odp is probably a waste of time...food for thought..

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Re: ODP Camp Invitations

Post by SD69 on 07/05/14, 11:24 am

Good advice. Keep in mind that if she is an absolute stud, that it only takes 4 practices to stay in good standing (even if the local quality is perceived to be lacking) and make the regional pool where I'm sure the quality of players goes up.
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Re: ODP Camp Invitations

Post by Zizou on 07/05/14, 11:27 am

silentparent wrote:i will say what someone advised me. next time you go to ODP look around and ask yourself can these girls make my daughter's team? doesnt matter what level you play at. if the answer is yes or absolutely yes, odp is probably worth it to you, if the answer is no or hell no, odp is probably a waste of time...food for thought..

Yep, hard to find the numbers to dispute that!

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Re: ODP Camp Invitations

Post by Guest on 07/05/14, 11:28 am

soccerdad1969 wrote:Good advice. Keep in mind that if she is an absolute stud, that it only takes 4 practices to stay in good standing (even if the local quality is perceived to be lacking) and make the regional pool where I'm sure the quality of players goes up.

and that is good advice also....

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Re: ODP Camp Invitations

Post by Ntxrocks on 07/05/14, 11:47 am

Keep in mind on the stats on the WNT that these women were playing before ECNL was around. May be a different story now. US Scouting doesn't charge you to go to camps or combines. ODP does which should tell you something.
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Re: ODP Camp Invitations

Post by Coach&Ref on 07/05/14, 11:48 am

silentparent wrote:i will say what someone advised me. next time you go to ODP look around and ask yourself can these girls make my daughter's team? doesnt matter what level you play at. if the answer is yes or absolutely yes, odp is probably worth it to you, if the answer is no or hell no, odp is probably a waste of time...food for thought..

I think, in general, that this is pretty good advice.

The only exception to this rule I can think of, probably only affects a very small minority of the girls. For example, just about every team in the top 10 D1 teams, most likely has one or two outstanding players. Assuming that some of them went to ODP, I think they would look around and say, "These other girls would DEFINITELY make my team"! the caveat to that is that there is still a wide gap in the ODP pool, but an even WIDER gap on LH teams, so obviously even the worst ODP girl should still, on average, be better than a great majority of LH girls.

If you take SRSA as an example and hypothetically had the entire team come out, they would probably look around and say that there are probably only about a VERY small handful that could make our team. So, to them, it really doesn't behoove them to come out as a whole.

Now I know that a few SRSA girls do participate, especially in the beginning, but now have seemed to go by the wayside. My daughter knows every one of them and loves practicing with them. Them, along with the handful of the top players of some of the D1 LH teams are why my daughter had such fun in the beginning.

Because some of them have decided to do other things or whatever, to her it just seems like a waste of time since, without these other girls, the quality of play is just not there like it was with them.

Otherwise, I think SP has a great rule of thumb. Like I said, my example probably only hypothetically covers a small percentage of girls.

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Re: ODP Camp Invitations

Post by Guest on 07/05/14, 11:52 am

Coach&Ref wrote:
silentparent wrote:i will say what someone advised me. next time you go to ODP look around and ask yourself can these girls make my daughter's team? doesnt matter what level you play at. if the answer is yes or absolutely yes, odp is probably worth it to you, if the answer is no or hell no, odp is probably a waste of time...food for thought..

I think, in general, that this is pretty good advice.

The only exception to this rule I can think of, probably only affects a very small minority of the girls. For example, just about every team in the top 10 D1 teams, most likely has one or two outstanding players. Assuming that some of them went to ODP, I think they would look around and say, "These other girls would DEFINITELY make my team"! the caveat to that is that there is still a wide gap in the ODP pool, but an even WIDER gap on LH teams, so obviously even the worst ODP girl should still, on average, be better than a great majority of LH girls.

If you take SRSA as an example and hypothetically had the entire team come out, they would probably look around and say that there are probably only about a VERY small handful that could make our team. So, to them, it really doesn't behoove them to come out as a whole.

Now I know that a few SRSA girls do participate, especially in the beginning, but now have seemed to go by the wayside. My daughter knows every one of them and loves practicing with them. Them, along with the handful of the top players of some of the D1 LH teams are why my daughter had such fun in the beginning.

Because some of them have decided to do other things or whatever, to her it just seems like a waste of time since, without these other girls, the quality of play is just not there like it was with them.

Otherwise, I think SP has a great rule of thumb. Like I said, my example probably only hypothetically covers a small percentage of girls.

yes but like the poster said if your daughter falls into this category you should keep her active so she can make the regional pool where she will be challenged and have fun...

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Re: ODP Camp Invitations

Post by SD69 on 07/05/14, 11:53 am

...and give my DD a player to strive to become  Laughing 
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