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03 State Cup Team List

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03 State Cup Team List

Post by Barca on Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:57 pm

State Cup posted:
http://www.gotsport.com/events/teamlist.asp?eventid=44622&showall=true

Where is DT Scott?

I'll go with another SRSA vs Solar Gold Final and SRSA wins 3-1.


Last edited by Barca on Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by ArnoldZiffel on Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:00 pm

You better check the groups before making that Solar v Solar in finals prediction
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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by Barca on Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:59 pm

ArnoldZiffel wrote:You better check the groups before making that Solar v Solar in finals prediction
Good catch...  Embarassed I was just checking to see if anyone was paying attention since the usual suspects are in hibernation.

Based on the current groups. This is not Rocket Science...
A. SRSA
B. FCD
C. Sting G
D. Liverpool Elite

SRSA 2-1 over Elite
Sting G 2-0 over FCD

Finals: SRSA 3-0 over Sting G
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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by Koba on Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:09 pm

Gotsoccer rankings aside,
Why would the two top 03 teams be in the same A bracket? That just doesn't seem right.
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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by pro16 on Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:40 pm

Because NTX traditionally seeds State Cup based on the fall season-ending rankings. So who is top 2 now may not have been so in November.

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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by Koba on Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:02 am

Sorry, but Solar Chelsea (formerly FCD Gold) has been in 1st place (D1) all year long and SRSA 03, we know their story. TD needs to fix this.
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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by GrandTXSoccer on Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:54 am

Man, why didn't the managers of those teams say something at the seeding meeting? Do they still have those meetings or did they stop having them?

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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by turftoe9 on Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:54 pm

So it looks like Solar Chelsea got the #1 seed and LH punishes Solar Chelsea Red for playing up the last seed. Looks like they can't use comen sense to seed the tournament properly.
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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by Son_ofa_Pitch on Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:07 pm

GrandTXSoccer wrote:Man, why didn't the managers of those teams say something at the seeding meeting? Do they still have those meetings or did they stop having them?

They had it.  03 managers, along with other age group split into smaller groups to discuss seeding.  Not all team managers were present.  Look at it this way, would you like to see SRSA in your bracket when you saw the seeding order??  I bet my bottom $$ most, if any, of the bottom teams didn't say one word to move them to top seed..


Last edited by Son_ofa_Pitch on Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:21 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typo)
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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by NoFanOfDrama on Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:08 pm

GrandTXSoccer wrote:Man, why didn't the managers of those teams say something at the seeding meeting? Do they still have those meetings or did they stop having them?

The pairings aren't bad.  When you consider 5 of the teams are in the top 20 nationally (seven if Gutierrez wouldn't have disappeared and SRSA was still in the 03 group), there are going to be some bracket seeding issues.

There is more than one bracket that has top teams:

A
Chelsea Red
SRSA

B
This is a cakewalk for FCD Prem

C
Gutierrez
DT South

D
Liverpool Elite
Cosmos

In any bracket, save bracket B, either team can come out on top.

What I would be complaining about/questioning is with this much talent in the brackets, there isn't a quarterfinals where #1 and #2 from each bracket move on.
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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by 2ddsinsoccer on Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:14 pm

GrandTx, yes a seeding meeting typically happens to determine the seeding. One was held this year but no reminder was sent about it like years past. In order to have remembered the meeting date, one would have had to write it down as a reminder on the calendar 2 months ago when the registration was done. I would have written it down had I not known that the TD was not going to send a reminder to the team managers and Coaches like she did last year. That being said neither Solar team in question was represented at the meeting. Of the 7 or 8 teams that remembered and were present at the meeting, NONE disagreed obviously with the seeding of Solar Red 03 in 8th place and signed the seeding sheet to finalize the seeds. That folks is how the #1 and #2 teams in the age group and the Champion and Finalist of 2014 State Cup and 2015 Dallas International Girls Cup ended up in the same bracket.
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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by Son_ofa_Pitch on Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:18 pm

2ddsinsoccer wrote:GrandTx, yes a seeding meeting typically happens to determine the seeding.  One was held this year but no reminder was sent about it like years past.  In order to have remembered the meeting date, one would have had to write it down as a reminder on the calendar 2 months ago when the registration was done.  I would have written it down had I not known that the TD was not going to send a reminder to the team managers and Coaches like she did last year.  That being said neither Solar team in question was represented at the meeting.  Of the 7 or 8 teams that remembered and were present at the meeting, NONE disagreed obviously with the seeding of Solar Red 03 in 8th place and signed the seeding sheet to finalize the seeds.  That folks is how the #1 and #2 teams in the age group and the Champion and Finalist of 2014 State Cup and 2015 Dallas International Girls Cup ended up in the same bracket.

Pretty much what I said above.. Yours just sounds better.. Very Happy
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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by 2ddsinsoccer on Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:30 pm

LOL! Yes, yes....... Just saw your post.  You must have posted just as I was posting.  But you are right, if I were the other teams and wanted a better shot at advancing, I would have done the exact same thing and stayed mum about it.   If I were Solar Chelsea 03 (which I am) I would have said, hell no!  You guys know Solar Red should not be 8th and had that changed.  Looks like we'll have to fight it out in game 2 on 5/3 at noon and IMHO, that will be the Final.  Laughing

All jokes aside, the seeding committee should have done their due diligence before signing off as well.  Is this a travesty of justice to either team?  Maybe, maybe not.  I do know this, we'll both go out and play hard and play well and hopefully WE will not make the same mistakes we made in the 2nd half of DIGC a few weeks ago.
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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by Coach&Ref on Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:57 pm

I'm not knocking on anyone's opinions here at all, but just giving my own.

I don't see why seeding is so important. To me, every game should be treated like a final. Every opponent should be taken seriously. There should be no expectations to move on and that, I've seen, has been many a team's problem. Top teams in D1 have looked past low ranking team that may be in Plano to the next opponent who might also be in D1. They expect the win over the PPL team. The D1 team may dominate the entire game, taking multiple shots and rarely letting the opponent in their half. One breakaway has been all it has taken to swing a game to a 1-0 win for the lower team, for example. On that day, the highly ranked, superior team might just not been able to finish.

Look at the EPL for examples too. Managers look at the schedules and add up the points the should expect to have and those that they may drop. This leads them to overlook teams that pull off shocking wins like Burnley over UTD and West Ham over City. These lower ranked team's combined salary for players is almost equal to Sergio Aguero's right leg!

With that being said, cream will always rise up to the top if all opponents are taken equally as serious as the next.

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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by turftoe9 on Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:20 pm

I'll disagree with you on this. When the top teams are put in the same bracket a weaker team gets to move on in a tournament where they should've been eliminated. For lhgcl to think that we're an D2 team is crazy. From what I hear is that Sanchez & Hilton had a big voice in keeping our girls at the #8 seed. Cowards!!!
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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by SickofSilliness on Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:36 pm

Heard they looked at re-seeding the NBA playoffs this year - Golden State vs. Atlanta in the first round.

Seeding is not important. Every game should be treated like a final. Every opponent should be taken seriously. There should be no expectations to move on.

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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by SickofSilliness on Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:38 pm

Honestly, they should do similar to the World Cup.

Throw out all seedings.  Draw names from a hat.  If all the top teams end up in the same group - well, too bad - every game should be treated like a final. Every opponent should be taken seriously. There should be no expectations to move on.

Even if the second best team in the bracket is the second best team in the tournament - too bad.

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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by turftoe9 on Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:43 pm

Sounds like a parent who wants a partition trophy.
Teams should be awarded for there past success. There for having seedings to see who you play.
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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by GrandTXSoccer on Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:56 pm

No doubt it sucks for one one of the solar teams but I hardly see it as some great conspiracy. For this to not have happened all it would have taken is one of the two solar managers to show up to the meeting. Neither did and as easy as it is to blame others, it's pretty clear where the blame lays in this situation. Sucks but life sucks sometimes. Learn from it and move on.

This seems to be the norm in seedings these days, I think the international cup had 4 of the top teams in one pool and then solar gold and three lower teams in the other. Sometimes youre the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.


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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by Coach&Ref on Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:03 pm

Maybe something like the Champions League would be a better system. Top teams groan when they are randomly picked and unluckily placed in a hard bracket to play against other top teams during the group stages. Then there are other top teams that should coast through their bracket.

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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by GrandTXSoccer on Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:11 pm

Looking at it if I were seeding Id have had solar gold #1 srsa 2, LP Elite 3, FCD P 4, Cosmos 5, Sting G 6, DTS 7, and after that I don't care.

The problem is they have always used LHs fall placement to start the seeding. I guess they don't think much of DII U13, kind of stupid but we are taking NTX youth soccer.

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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by ballhead on Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:30 pm

2ddsinsoccer wrote:GrandTx, yes a seeding meeting typically happens to determine the seeding.  One was held this year but no reminder was sent about it like years past.  In order to have remembered the meeting date, one would have had to write it down as a reminder on the calendar 2 months ago when the registration was done.  I would have written it down had I not known that the TD was not going to send a reminder to the team managers and Coaches like she did last year.  That being said neither Solar team in question was represented at the meeting.  Of the 7 or 8 teams that remembered and were present at the meeting, NONE disagreed obviously with the seeding of Solar Red 03 in 8th place and signed the seeding sheet to finalize the seeds.  That folks is how the #1 and #2 teams in the age group and the Champion and Finalist of 2014 State Cup and 2015 Dallas International Girls Cup ended up in the same bracket.

I was a team manager for 8 years.  It is not the TD's responsibility to send out reminders so that you don't have to "write it down".  I find it maddening when an organization gets blamed for not sending out a reminder to something that happens every year, and the date was published.  As a manager, it's incumbent upon us to know what dates are important (and this one qualifies).

It would have been nice if a reminder had gone out, but the date is clearly delineated on the State Cup "Important Dates" tab on the NTX website.  Everyone involved knew that there was going to be a manager's meeting, and should have taken the time to make sure they knew when it was going to be held.

You seem to suggest that perhaps the other teams (that did, somehow, remember to go) should have objected to the seeding and asked them to seed the absent team higher?  

Perhaps your club should have reminded it's managers that it was an important date.  Or maybe it's their fault, too!
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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by outonthelimb on Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:46 pm

turftoe9 wrote: I'll disagree with you on this. When the top teams are put in the same bracket a weaker team gets to move on in a tournament where they should've been eliminated. For lhgcl to think that we're an D2 team is crazy. From what I hear is that Sanchez & Hilton had a big voice in keeping our girls at the #8 seed. Cowards!!!
.....


Last edited by outonthelimb on Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:21 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : not worth it....)
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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by ballhead on Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:02 pm

turftoe9 wrote: I'll disagree with you on this. When the top teams are put in the same bracket a weaker team gets to move on in a tournament where they should've been eliminated. For lhgcl to think that we're an D2 team is crazy. From what I hear is that Sanchez & Hilton had a big voice in keeping our girls at the #8 seed. Cowards!!!

I think the seeding is done by NTX, based on the LHGCL standings.  I doubt LHGCL had any input as to where you were seeded in State Cup.
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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by Big Daddy on Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:18 pm

I look at this as a simple mistake made by NTX soccer. Should have been corrected. But why would the managers do the right thing and have it corrected? They wouldn't benefit from the change.

Another example of winning at all cost before doing the right thing.

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