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03 State Cup Team List

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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by Big Daddy on 21/04/15, 07:18 pm

I look at this as a simple mistake made by NTX soccer. Should have been corrected. But why would the managers do the right thing and have it corrected? They wouldn't benefit from the change.

Another example of winning at all cost before doing the right thing.

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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by ballhead on 21/04/15, 07:27 pm

Big Daddy wrote:I look at this as a simple mistake made by NTX soccer.  Should have been corrected.  But why would the managers do the right thing and have it corrected? They wouldn't benefit from the change.  

Another example of winning at all cost before doing the right thing.

Why is this a NTX mistake that they should correct?  They provided an opportunity for the participants to correct and adjust seeding if they deemed it necessary, and the two managers simply didn't take advantage of it.  Now the other teams in the group are guilty of the dreaded "win at all costs" sin because they didn't fix what could have been corrected had the Solar managers showed up.

That's a stretch, at least in my book.
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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by turftoe9 on 21/04/15, 07:36 pm

How is that a stretch? Right is Right.
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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by ballhead on 21/04/15, 07:50 pm

turftoe9 wrote:How is that a stretch? Right is Right.

So who decides what's "right"?  When it all boils down to it, other than the direct LHGCL standings, the other stuff is someone's opinion.  Where do you draw the line at what's "right"?  

Why have a manager's meeting to discuss seeding if it doesn't matter if anyone comes?

I'm not saying that they're seeded correctly, but NTX put a mechanism in place to fix things like that, and the team didn't avail themselves of it.  

What kind of Pandora's box does it open if the seeding is approved by the teams at the meeting, then they go in and change it afterwards?  This place would go nuts with conspiracy theories about who got to whom (and what their motivation was) to make it happen.
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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by 2ddsinsoccer on 21/04/15, 08:12 pm

ballhead wrote:
2ddsinsoccer wrote:GrandTx, yes a seeding meeting typically happens to determine the seeding.  One was held this year but no reminder was sent about it like years past.  In order to have remembered the meeting date, one would have had to write it down as a reminder on the calendar 2 months ago when the registration was done.  I would have written it down had I not known that the TD was not going to send a reminder to the team managers and Coaches like she did last year.  That being said neither Solar team in question was represented at the meeting.  Of the 7 or 8 teams that remembered and were present at the meeting, NONE disagreed obviously with the seeding of Solar Red 03 in 8th place and signed the seeding sheet to finalize the seeds.  That folks is how the #1 and #2 teams in the age group and the Champion and Finalist of 2014 State Cup and 2015 Dallas International Girls Cup ended up in the same bracket.

I was a team manager for 8 years.  It is not the TD's responsibility to send out reminders so that you don't have to "write it down".  I find it maddening when an organization gets blamed for not sending out a reminder to something that happens every year, and the date was published.  As a manager, it's incumbent upon us to know what dates are important (and this one qualifies).

It would have been nice if a reminder had gone out, but the date is clearly delineated on the State Cup "Important Dates" tab on the NTX website.  Everyone involved knew that there was going to be a manager's meeting, and should have taken the time to make sure they knew when it was going to be held.

You seem to suggest that perhaps the other teams (that did, somehow, remember to go) should have objected to the seeding and asked them to seed the absent team higher?  

Perhaps your club should have reminded it's managers that it was an important date.  Or maybe it's their fault, too!
Ballhead, don't come for me unless I send for you!  Did I say it was the TD's fault for not sending a reminder??  No I did not.  What I said was I would have written the date down on my calendar months ago when I registered had I known no reminder would be sent like years past.  If a reminder was sent about the Mandatory meeting last year, a logical person like myself would also think that a reminder would have been sent this year.  One wasn't sent and personally if you could see the concern in my left eye, you'd know it is even less in my right.  It's all water under the bridge now and really a moot point.  I work an 8 to 5 and on top of that I have had 2 death's in my family, have a 98 with her second ACL injury in 2 years and 94 year old Grandmother in the hospital with a blood clot in her neck all in the last 2 weeks.  The mandatory meeting was the farthest thing from my mind even if I had written it down.  I was answering GrandTX question about the meeting and you decided to point fingers this way.  I take all responsibility for my missing the meeting and as I said, had I been there I would certainly have objected to Solar Red 03 being seeded at #8 because in all honesty, EVERYONE knows that they should not have been seeded there.  As for Solar Chelsea 03, we will play any opponent in front of us.  We will win and we lose and we won't get on this board and boast and brag nor will we gripe or complain when either happens.  I've been a team manager for each of my daughter's teams since my 98 started Academy back in 2005, I've probably missed tons of soccer related meetings and if I continue to be a team manager, I'll probably miss several more.  You act like I jumped on this thread to complain about the seeding when all I did was answer a question that was directed at me.  You on the other hand, directly quoted my post and decided to read me for stating my opinion.   Are you the TD since you seem so hell bent on defending her?  Just like you find it maddening when an organization gets blamed for not sending out a reminder to something that happens every year, and the date was published.  I could have said I find it equally maddening when an organization sends reminders to mandatory meetings every year and then all of sudden this year they don't.  But, I did not say that now did I?   Please, you're barking up the wrong tree, maybe you have a beef with Solar SC or even Solar Red, but not with me.  I didn't start this thread, nor did I complain about the seeding.  I stated my opinion and said what I would have done had I been present at the meeting.  I was not there, the schedule is out and final and good luck to all teams in the tournament.
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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by ballhead on 21/04/15, 08:50 pm

2ddsinsoccer wrote:
Ballhead, don't come for me unless I send for you!  Did I say it was the TD's fault for not sending a reminder??  No I did not.  What I said was I would have written the date down on my calendar months ago when I registered had I known no reminder would be sent like years past.  If a reminder was sent about the Mandatory meeting last year, a logical person like myself would also think that a reminder would have been sent this year.  One wasn't sent and personally if you could see the concern in my left eye, you'd know it is even less in my right.  It's all water under the bridge now and really a moot point.  I work an 8 to 5 and on top of that I have had 2 death's in my family, have a 98 with her second ACL injury in 2 years and 94 year old Grandmother in the hospital with a blood clot in her neck all in the last 2 weeks.  The mandatory meeting was the farthest thing from my mind even if I had written it down.  I was answering GrandTX question about the meeting and you decided to point fingers this way.  I take all responsibility for my missing the meeting and as I said, had I been there I would certainly have objected to Solar Red 03 being seeded at #8 because in all honesty, EVERYONE knows that they should not have been seeded there.  As for Solar Chelsea 03, we will play any opponent in front of us.  We will win and we lose and we won't get on this board and boast and brag nor will we gripe or complain when either happens.  I've been a team manager for each of my daughter's teams since my 98 started Academy back in 2005, I've probably missed tons of soccer related meetings and if I continue to be a team manager, I'll probably miss several more.  You act like I jumped on this thread to complain about the seeding when all I did was answer a question that was directed at me.  You on the other hand, directly quoted my post and decided to read me for stating my opinion.   Are you the TD since you seem so hell bent on defending her?  Just like you find it maddening when an organization gets blamed for not sending out a reminder to something that happens every year, and the date was published.  I could have said I find it equally maddening when an organization sends reminders to mandatory meetings every year and then all of sudden this year they don't.  But, I did not say that now did I?   Please, you're barking up the wrong tree, maybe you have a beef with Solar SC or even Solar Red, but not with me.  I didn't start this thread, nor did I complain about the seeding.  I stated my opinion and said what I would have done had I been present at the meeting.  I was not there, the schedule is out and final and good luck to all teams in the tournament.

Let me be REALLY clear:  I am not the tournament director, nor have I been a tournament director of ANY tournament, ever.

I'm sorry for your troubles, it sounds like it's been a very trying time.

That said, it sure seemed like you were complaining.  As I mentioned before, I was a manager for a long, long time, and I found it to be my responsibility to make sure that I attended any meetings that I needed to attend.  If I couldn't, I got someone else to do it.  It was clearly one of the most thankless jobs there is, but I never complained about or blamed anything on someone else when I was the one that had dropped the ball.  

A reminder would have been nice, no doubt.  But it's not like the meeting was just scheduled, or only a few people turned out.  It actually sounds like most made it, but I wasn't there, so I couldn't say for sure.

I have no beef with Solar or Solar Red, in fact, some of those coaches are personal friends of mine, but as someone else so aptly put earlier in this thread:  "Right is Right".
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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by Koba on 21/04/15, 09:44 pm

NTSSA has time to fix this mess....why they aren't doing cross bracket games with those two 3 team brackets is another mystery....instead they are scheduling just 2 games in pool play for Brackets A & B???
3 games for brackets C & D.


Last edited by Koba on 21/04/15, 09:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by 2ddsinsoccer on 21/04/15, 09:46 pm

ballhead wrote:
2ddsinsoccer wrote:
Ballhead, don't come for me unless I send for you!  Did I say it was the TD's fault for not sending a reminder??  No I did not.  What I said was I would have written the date down on my calendar months ago when I registered had I known no reminder would be sent like years past.  If a reminder was sent about the Mandatory meeting last year, a logical person like myself would also think that a reminder would have been sent this year.  One wasn't sent and personally if you could see the concern in my left eye, you'd know it is even less in my right.  It's all water under the bridge now and really a moot point.  I work an 8 to 5 and on top of that I have had 2 death's in my family, have a 98 with her second ACL injury in 2 years and 94 year old Grandmother in the hospital with a blood clot in her neck all in the last 2 weeks.  The mandatory meeting was the farthest thing from my mind even if I had written it down.  I was answering GrandTX question about the meeting and you decided to point fingers this way.  I take all responsibility for my missing the meeting and as I said, had I been there I would certainly have objected to Solar Red 03 being seeded at #8 because in all honesty, EVERYONE knows that they should not have been seeded there.  As for Solar Chelsea 03, we will play any opponent in front of us.  We will win and we lose and we won't get on this board and boast and brag nor will we gripe or complain when either happens.  I've been a team manager for each of my daughter's teams since my 98 started Academy back in 2005, I've probably missed tons of soccer related meetings and if I continue to be a team manager, I'll probably miss several more.  You act like I jumped on this thread to complain about the seeding when all I did was answer a question that was directed at me.  You on the other hand, directly quoted my post and decided to read me for stating my opinion.   Are you the TD since you seem so hell bent on defending her?  Just like you find it maddening when an organization gets blamed for not sending out a reminder to something that happens every year, and the date was published.  I could have said I find it equally maddening when an organization sends reminders to mandatory meetings every year and then all of sudden this year they don't.  But, I did not say that now did I?   Please, you're barking up the wrong tree, maybe you have a beef with Solar SC or even Solar Red, but not with me.  I didn't start this thread, nor did I complain about the seeding.  I stated my opinion and said what I would have done had I been present at the meeting.  I was not there, the schedule is out and final and good luck to all teams in the tournament.

Let me be REALLY clear:  I am not the tournament director, nor have I been a tournament director of ANY tournament, ever.  Thanks for clarifying that.

I'm sorry for your troubles, it sounds like it's been a very trying time.  Yes it has been.  I probably would have missed the meeting even if I had remembered or been reminded.  My family buried my Uncle that day.

That said, it sure seemed like you were complaining. Not complaining at all, I simply answered a question that was directed at me.  As I mentioned before, I was a manager for a long, long time, and I found it to be my responsibility to make sure that I attended any meetings that I needed to attend.  If I couldn't, I got someone else to do it.  It was clearly one of the most thankless jobs there is, but I never complained about or blamed anything on someone else when I was the one that had dropped the ball.  

A reminder would have been nice, no doubt.  But it's not like the meeting was just scheduled, or only a few people turned out.  It actually sounds like most made it, but I wasn't there, so I couldn't say for sure. Out of 14 teams, 5 managers and 2 coaches made it to the meeting according to my sources.  That's half the teams playing so looks like the other half forgot as well.  

I have no beef with Solar or Solar Red, in fact, some of those coaches are personal friends of mine, but as someone else so aptly put earlier in this thread:  "Right is Right". Right is right and the right thing would have been for those present to seed according to FACT!   As I stated, I was not there, my team was seeded #1, and I did not start this thread complaining about the seeding.  I responded to a question and stated my opinion as to what I would have done had I been at the meeting.  

Good night!
 
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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by 2ddsinsoccer on 21/04/15, 09:54 pm

Koba wrote:NTSSA has time to fix this mess....why they aren't doing cross bracket games with those two 3 team brackets is another mystery....instead they are scheduling just 2 games in pool play for Brackets A & B???

Koba, they most likely won't fix it. It was the same way last year. What sucks about it though is for those teams that paid the same $700 as everyone else to only get a maximum of 2 games and that's something to complain about.

I guess I should have added to my other post that I got a reminder email about registering for State Cup and paying our $700. There wasn't a reminder sent however about the deadline to upload online check-in documents by the 18th. I wonder if any of those teams that missed that deadline will get dropped from the tournament. Probably not. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by PK_M.I.A. on 21/04/15, 10:12 pm

turftoe9 wrote: I'll disagree with you on this. When the top teams are put in the same bracket a weaker team gets to move on in a tournament where they should've been eliminated. For lhgcl to think that we're an D2 team is crazy. From what I hear is that Sanchez & Hilton had a big voice in keeping our girls at the #8 seed. Cowards!!!

"I hear" you didn't hear SH-t!
You're  scared of solar gold.
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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by turftoe9 on 21/04/15, 11:45 pm

No we'll play anyone any time. It's just crazy that the 2 top teams are in the same bracket. Everyone else is breathing a sigh of relief that neither one is in there bracket. Game on in a couple weeks..
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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by HotShot36 on 22/04/15, 12:10 am

I'm guessing the Solar Royal contingent wasn't at the meeting either. Not only did they pay $700 and only get two games, they get placed in the same bracket as #1 Solar Gold and "#8" Solar Red and have to play them both on Saturday while the other two get 1 game Saturday and 1 game Sunday. I figure they would've been the loudest voice in the building against these crazy brackets had they been there, lol! I'm all for playing better competition to help your team get better and I'm sure they will come out and give it their all but this could potentially be a very ugly Saturday for those young ladies.
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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by Big Daddy on 22/04/15, 06:36 am

ballhead wrote:
Big Daddy wrote:I look at this as a simple mistake made by NTX soccer.  Should have been corrected.  But why would the managers do the right thing and have it corrected? They wouldn't benefit from the change.  

Another example of winning at all cost before doing the right thing.

Why is this a NTX mistake that they should correct?  They provided an opportunity for the participants to correct and adjust seeding if they deemed it necessary, and the two managers simply didn't take advantage of it.  Now the other teams in the group are guilty of the dreaded "win at all costs" sin because they didn't fix what could have been corrected had the Solar managers showed up.

That's a stretch, at least in my book.

Thank you for making my point even more clear.  It doesn't matter what team you are with if there is a mistake solar as well as the other teams should correct.  Is it a stretch, absolutely! Why would anyone do the right thing if it doesn't benefit them??

I knew my family raised me wrong when they taught me to do the right thing, regardless of the consequences. Shocked

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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by oldboot on 22/04/15, 09:50 am

turftoe9 wrote:No we'll play anyone any time. It's just crazy that the 2 top teams are in the same bracket.  Everyone else is breathing a sigh of relief that neither one is in there bracket. Game on in a couple weeks..

We will play them on a boat,

We will play them in a moat,

We will play them in the rain,

We will play them while in Spain
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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by GrandTXSoccer on 22/04/15, 11:21 am

I just checked and I didn't see any of these folks complaining in the Dallas International Cup thread, where the seeding was equally as jacked up. So if right is right, why wasn't there a bigger outrage then? I think most folks know the answer to that one.

Bottom line though is this is just another over priced tournament in NTX, winning this is nice but you still don't advance anywhere until next year. Quite honestly the only thing I'd be pissed about is that you only get two games if you don't advance. Nothing like paying a cool $350 each game. However you know that's a possibility when you sign up and it says there are no guarantees on the number of games. There are quite a few things it says on the tournament website that are of great value to read.


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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by jsullivan81 on 22/04/15, 01:14 pm

turftoe9 wrote:No we'll play anyone any time. It's just crazy that the 2 top teams are in the same bracket.  Everyone else is breathing a sigh of relief that neither one is in there bracket. Game on in a couple weeks..

So, in summary.... You are complaining because you have to play a harder team in bracket play due to the seedings. But, you want others to complain and get seedings right in an effort to play a harder team. (In this case, the harder team is your team). Just want to be clear....

You are right though, no one can accuse you of ducking competition. It's not like you guys are playing down an age group or anything just for tournaments. Oh wait......

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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by terps37 on 22/04/15, 01:26 pm

Doing the right thing would have been the team manager make it to the meeting.

stop blaming NTX. It was the teams fault that they missed the meeting..

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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by turftoe9 on 22/04/15, 01:33 pm

I'm curious how they did the seedings.
There are 14 teams, if 1 plays 14 and you work it down #8 should be in bracket #3. So yes there is a conspiracy that all Solar teams are in the same bracket.
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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by jsullivan81 on 22/04/15, 02:49 pm

turftoe9 wrote:I'm curious how they did the seedings.
There are 14 teams, if 1 plays 14 and you work it down #8 should be in bracket #3. So yes there is a conspiracy that all Solar teams are in the same bracket.

Now you're onto something. It must be a conspiracy. It was against Solar, Sting and Liverpool. All in the wrong brackets.

All Liverpool teams are in one bracket. Four Sting teams, in two brackets when there are four brackets. Shoudl they complain too? Quit grasping at straws. You say you guys will play whoever is in front of you, so just do that. Even though you guys have tied some games and lost some finally, you're still the favorite. Quit complaining that you may have to play some tough games earlier in the tournament. Seeding is never perfect. Maybe you guys did get penalized for playing up in league play. With that being said, why are you guys playing up in league, but back to 03 in tournaments? The competition in league is the same as it in tournaments.

You don't have to answer that question, it was rhetorical. We all know the answer.

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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by turftoe9 on 22/04/15, 03:12 pm

If you have noticed we've played in 02 tournaments Also.
I'm just getting some commentary going on here. I seriously don't understand how lhgcl came up with the seedings. Just use alitte commend sense. The games will be played and who knows maybe with our girls getting seated #8 it will fire them up. After the last tournament, which had many good games. I don't expect anything different at The State Cup. Good luck to all teams participating.
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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by go99 on 22/04/15, 03:14 pm

seems as though the solar issue is a normal one. The tournament is seeded from LH and since red is playing up they don't get any seeding which put them as a lower seed. The lower seeds always play the top teams. So either you sould have played your age group or gold should have had poorer results otherwise you were always heading for a showdown. For the record I get playing up in the league and age for tournaments but really can't whine when playing up comes with cost
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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by turftoe9 on 22/04/15, 03:24 pm

Again I don't disagree with you. But since we were seeded at #8, so #1 plays #14 and if you work it down #8 should be in the #3 bracket. I don't understand their seedings.
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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by outonthelimb on 22/04/15, 08:03 pm

turftoe9 wrote:Again I don't disagree with you. But since we were seeded at #8, so #1 plays #14 and if you work it down #8 should be in the #3 bracket. I don't understand their seedings.
It is a snake format just like every other tournament you've played in since forever. With 14 teams and 4 brackets Solar is in the right slot given they are the #8 seed. You could argue that they should have been given the #14 seed. Now that argument has more merit than the #8 seed but with 4 Sting team managers present there is no way that argument gets through and I'm not so sure Solar Red wouldn't have agreed with them either. Stirring the pot...


1,8,9,16
2,7,10, 15
3,6,11,14
4,5,12,13
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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by go99 on 22/04/15, 09:05 pm

turftoe9 wrote:If you have noticed we've played in 02 tournaments Also.
I'm just getting some commentary going on here. I seriously don't understand how lhgcl came up with the seedings. Just use alitte commend sense. The games will be played and who knows maybe with our girls getting seated #8 it will fire them up. After the last tournament, which had many good games. I don't expect anything different at The State Cup. Good luck to all teams participating.

Bracketing seems okay even if it does suck for gold. That is not how I would sell it too the girls though. I would sell it as a sign of disrespect by the league and the other teams. Hopefully get the girls on edge with a little bite too them and absolutely decimate the state cup
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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by jsullivan81 on 02/05/15, 10:33 pm

Cosmos Sting Hilton and Sting Guiterrez getting it done. DTS, not so much. Solar Royal, good for them for playing much higher competition, but at some point is it worth $500+ to get killed by your sister teams.

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Re: 03 State Cup Team List

Post by Barca on 03/05/15, 03:13 pm

There goes my finalist...
Adjusted final: Solar Gold 2-0 over Sting G.
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