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What if?

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What if?

Post by Soccerboy on 13/05/15, 02:18 pm

What if the rain continues to delay and cancel LHGCL games? Does the league push games into June?
Does the league allow teams to open roster spots?
Why can't the league use high school or turf fields to get games in?

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Re: What if?

Post by Triumph FC on 13/05/15, 02:35 pm

Why would they open roster spots?
Players are under contract until June 30th
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Re: What if?

Post by Soccerboy on 13/05/15, 02:37 pm

If the season last into June. ....

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Re: What if?

Post by DDx3 on 13/05/15, 02:39 pm

With all the player pass going on it already seems like it open roster.

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Re: What if?

Post by Triumph FC on 13/05/15, 03:00 pm

Soccerboy wrote:If the season last into June. ....
The players are under contract so why does it matter if it's June
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Re: What if?

Post by Soccerboy on 13/05/15, 03:17 pm

Open tryouts and practices are in June. Coaches/teams can add to or change roster in June. Would the league allow that if the season goes into June?

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Re: What if?

Post by Triumph FC on 13/05/15, 03:21 pm

No they can't players are under contract! You can't just add them in June....in fact it is illegal to offer a player a spot in June as they are still under contract
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Re: What if?

Post by HeadHaunter on 14/05/15, 01:13 pm

AND, they can't get releases at this point either as those had to be in by April 1st so June 1st marks only one thing - the ability to openly practice with other teams without a letter of approval from the player's coach.  That is all that happens on June 1st.  To guest play, you still need a guest release and you cannot have guests in league play so that's not even an option.

June is just a time when people are trying to get their vacations in before the big signing day in July.  That's the only thing I see it really getting in the way of.

However, I do agree, it would be nice to start using turfed fields or something to get the games in even if it rains.  Rain should not stop kids from playing soccer.  Lightening yes, rain no...
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Re: What if?

Post by Coach on 14/05/15, 01:27 pm

You can express interest in a player.
The player can come to your training sessions in June.
Even if you know and the player knows what will happen July 1, you can't offer them a roster spot.
Stupid semantics.

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Re: What if?

Post by db10 on 14/05/15, 01:41 pm

HeadHaunter wrote:AND, they can't get releases at this point either as those had to be in by April 1st so June 1st marks only one thing - the ability to openly practice with other teams without a letter of approval from the player's coach.  That is all that happens on June 1st.  To guest play, you still need a guest release and you cannot have guests in league play so that's not even an option.

June is just a time when people are trying to get their vacations in before the big signing day in July.  That's the only thing I see it really getting in the way of.

However, I do agree, it would be nice to start using turfed fields or something to get the games in even if it rains.  Rain should not stop kids from playing soccer.  Lightening yes, rain no...

The Rain doesn't stop them, the owner of the fields do. Ever see what a few 100 feet will do to marginal grass in poor soil when soaked? These aren't professional pitches that drain quickly, nor will turf be replaced if needed. So the only hope is keep the fields fom getting damaged in the first place. Remember the average college or professional soccer pitch is use once every other week and has months with no use at all plus a team of professionals caring for it. The UTD fields have matches 4 or 5 times a week with multiple games per day?!?

The upside is UTD and railroad should be in great condition when the rain does stop.

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Re: What if?

Post by KnKsDad on 14/05/15, 02:05 pm

So guest player release is required even in June? If under contract until 6/30 then there is never really any true "free agency" period.

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Re: What if?

Post by Triumph FC on 14/05/15, 02:11 pm

Yes guest release is needed. If coach will not release player to guest and their rostered team is not playing then North Texas will sign your guest form. The free agency period really only equates to practice where no release is needed in June but they are technically not a free agent and it's why select coaches cannot say to the parents or players you have a spot on my roster for July as that is class as enticement. Of course I'm not stupid to think it doesn't happen but if you get caught you could be suspended for a year from all coaching activities so you have to be creative in how to handle that situation so both parties are happy in what will happen on July 1st
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Re: What if?

Post by SWGSB 52 on 14/05/15, 03:20 pm

Maybe this helps. Maybe it makes it worse. Regardless it's that time of year again to have this discussion.

NTSSA Bylaws and Competitive Policy Manuel

Free Agency
"A free agent is a player in the U-11 through U-19 age division who desires to participate on a competitive team and is not rostered to any team. All players in the U-11 through U19 age divisions become free agents as of July 1. That player will continue to be a free agent until the player and /or his parents or guardian have signed a contract with a team. After July 1 players who are not or have not been rostered to a team for the current soccer year may sign a contract for the current soccer year at any time."

Coach and Player Commitments
" please be aware that players and coaches may speak to each other. They may express a desire to be part of the same team, the coach may tell a player that he/she would like the player to come play for the team in the future. But what cannot be done is a binding commitment. A commitment on either side is not allowed prior to July 1."

Tryouts
"After May 31, players may practice with other teams without any required release or other permission, although formal tryouts may not be held until July 1."

I personally get confused on this one every year. I'm not sure what the difference between a practice and a Formal Tryout is. Other than not handing out a team fact sheet. Until I read what is defined as a Tryout.

"NTSSA has no rule that condones or restricts tryouts except that tryouts are not allowed for U-6 through U- 10 players."

Luckily we all seem to get a pass on this one at U13 when North Texas coaches with North Texas registered teams and players offer ECNL Tryouts in March, April, May and June. I understand that is ECNL is US Club and doesn't answer to USYSA/NTSSA but the coaches and players are still USYSA registered.
http://www.txsoccer.net/f38-select-ecnl-discussion
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Re: What if?

Post by HeadHaunter on 14/05/15, 03:29 pm

SWGSB 52 wrote:Maybe this helps. Maybe it makes it worse. Regardless it's that time of year again to have this discussion.

NTSSA Bylaws and Competitive Policy Manuel

Free Agency
"A free agent is a player in the U-11 through U-19 age division who desires to participate on a competitive team and is not rostered to any team. All players in the U-11 through U19 age divisions become free agents as of July 1. That player will continue to be a free agent until the player and /or his parents or guardian have signed a contract with a team. After July 1 players who are not or have not been rostered to a team for the current soccer year may sign a contract for the current soccer year at any time."

Coach and Player Commitments
" please be aware that players and coaches may speak to each other. They may express a desire to be part of the same team, the coach may tell a player that he/she would like the player to come play for the team in the future. But what cannot be done is a binding commitment. A commitment on either side is not allowed prior to July 1."

Tryouts
"After May 31, players may practice with other teams without any required release or other permission, although formal tryouts may not be held until July 1."

I personally get confused on this one every year. I'm not sure what the difference between a practice and a Formal Tryout is. Other than not handing out a team fact sheet. Until I read what is defined as a Tryout.

"NTSSA has no rule that condones or restricts tryouts except that tryouts are not allowed for U-6 through U- 10 players."

Luckily we all seem to get a pass on this one at U13 when North Texas coaches with North Texas registered teams and players offer ECNL Tryouts in March, April, May and June. I understand that is ECNL is US Club and doesn't answer to USYSA/NTSSA but the coaches and players are still USYSA registered.
http://www.txsoccer.net/f38-select-ecnl-discussion
Ah, gray areas, gray areas...  LOL
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Re: What if?

Post by HeadHaunter on 14/05/15, 03:35 pm

KnKsDad wrote:So guest player release is required even in June? If under contract until 6/30 then there is never really any true "free agency" period.
As stated in another post here - Free Agency begins officially July 1st.  Try-outs, in general, again, semantics, start on July 1.  However, you are allowed to "practice" with whoever you like starting June 1 without a coaches signature meaning you could "secretly" go practice with another team prior to the official "try-outs" being communicated.  Then, when "try-outs" are finally opened, you might have already gotten a "verbal" - I like you - from the coach meaning the try-outs and contracts are just to formalize the whole thing.

These are portrayed as "open practices" on this forum as Try-Outs don't officially begin till July 1st.  Anytime a kiddo comes to practice, they are being evaluated against other players, meaning, it's basically a try-out at an open practice right?  On the forum, that is watched by all rules and regs folks, it's just best to say - we have OPEN PRACTICES for the MONTH OF JUNE...  and leave it at that...
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Re: What if?

Post by KnKsDad on 14/05/15, 04:19 pm

I get all that. My misunderstanding relates to the 7/1 date then. I was under the impression that one "had" to sign on that date through the way it's been inferred in the past through verbal communications leading up to that point when in reality you could actually wait and sign well beyond that point and use the post 7/1 time as  "free agent" time and sign when ready - subject to there being an available roster spot on a given team of course. Mind you, I am not complaining since it is ultimately my responsibility to know the rules.

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Re: What if?

Post by ballhead on 14/05/15, 04:48 pm

KnKsDad wrote:I get all that. My misunderstanding relates to the 7/1 date then. I was under the impression that one "had" to sign on that date through the way it's been inferred in the past through verbal communications leading up to that point when in reality you could actually wait and sign well beyond that point and use the post 7/1 time as  "free agent" time and sign when ready - subject to there being an available roster spot on a given team of course. Mind you, I am not complaining since it is ultimately my responsibility to know the rules.

There is no requirement to sign on the first, although teams and clubs usually push hard to do so to "lock in" their players, and to keep someone else from sneaking in and convincing a player to sign with them.  And of course, the sooner the players sign, the sooner the signing party (and the club's cash flow) begins.

7/1 is simply the FIRST day a player can sign.
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Re: What if?

Post by ekkeeper1 on 15/05/15, 08:58 am

Back when I was playing there was a year when my team only had 9 players on signing day we delayed the signing in hopes we could pick up another couple players to complete our roster. I think we ended up signing on like the 10th, we were able to pick up two more players after the 1st before going forward with signing. Yes we ended up playing that fall season with 10-11 players interesting part we were better with 10 or 11 then with 14 in the spring lol but that was before lake highlands d3 and a lot of whats around now

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Re: What if?

Post by soccersounder on 15/05/15, 10:55 am

Back to the point of the thread: What if (and it looks likely) we have games in June.. And say one game is very important to one team, let's say to stay in D2. But not important at all to the other team, which planned on spreading to the wind ASAP... There could be possible forfeits OR some games played with 9 or 10 players
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Re: What if?

Post by PurplePonyPower on 15/05/15, 10:59 am

LH have canceled this weekend already.  Seems a bit early.

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Re: What if?

Post by Coach on 15/05/15, 11:05 am

State Cup at Richland still on?

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Re: What if?

Post by HeadHaunter on 15/05/15, 11:13 am

soccersounder wrote:Back to the point of the thread: What if (and it looks likely) we have games in June.. And say one game is very important to one team, let's say to stay in D2. But not important at all to the other team, which planned on spreading to the wind ASAP... There could be possible forfeits OR some games played with 9 or 10 players
LH has been very good about contacting the teams directly to see what their availability is before scheduling in my opinion.  IF these games move into June, because of no other choice, and the teams that CAN CPP a player probably will have to do that to field a team.  I'm quite sure they will do all they can to accommodate teams throughout this season but just remember, this wasn't something that was created by LH, this is something created by the people that own the fields - LH just has an agreement with the cities, schools, etc that own the fields and LH cannot just tell them to open the fields.  Also, remember, this affects ALL leagues and all outdoor sports right now...  I am bit selfish as well when it comes to my kiddo getting on the field and playing but I think we're ALL (including LH) at the will of the weather and entities that own the fields.  I like the idea of trying to secure "other" fields if possible but I think that's a money / political thing and would probably never happen, but, that's my assumption of course.  Sad
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Re: What if?

Post by Guest on 15/05/15, 11:27 am

PURE SPECULATION HERE. I think they must play the games that determine promotion and relegation. I think the games that don't affect promotion and relegation might not be played. There is also the question of final league standings, when the league didn't play all the games. They could simply take the points earned by each team and divide that by the games played, giving each team an average pts/game and rank them that way. That's not a perfect solution since some teams would have played more of the top teams than others, but other than playing all the games, I don't know how else they could have a final ranking.

Personally, I'd like to see every single game played. If it takes until June 30th to do that, so be it. I think deciding it on the field is far superior to resorting to an arithmetic solution. I'd make the promotion/relegation games the 1st priority and I'd make every single reasonable effort (including resorting to games played at High School turf fields) to play the full league schedule. If we get to June 30th and we still haven't gotten all the games in? Then we go with the arithmetic solution.

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Re: What if?

Post by HeadHaunter on 15/05/15, 11:49 am

OLJW wrote:PURE SPECULATION HERE. I think they must play the games that determine promotion and relegation. I think the games that don't affect promotion and relegation might not be played. There is also the question of final league standings, when the league didn't play all the games. They could simply take the points earned by each team and divide that by the games played, giving each team an average pts/game and rank them that way. That's not a perfect solution since some teams would have played more of the top teams than others, but other than playing all the games, I don't know how else they could have a final ranking.

Personally, I'd like to see every single game played. If it takes until June 30th to do that, so be it. I think deciding it on the field is far superior to resorting to an arithmetic solution. I'd make the promotion/relegation games the 1st priority and I'd make every single reasonable effort (including resorting to games played at High School turf fields) to play the full league schedule. If we get to June 30th and we still haven't gotten all the games in? Then we go with the arithmetic solution.
Realizing, of course, some would feel slighted no matter how you approach it...  Wink
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Re: What if?

Post by Guest on 15/05/15, 11:59 am

No doubt.

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