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Big Club vs. Small Club vs. Independent

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Big Club vs. Small Club vs. Independent

Post by oldsoccerdad on 04/06/15, 08:00 am

I was just wondering during this season of flux with girls looking for teams if folks had any pros or cons for a big club vs a small club vs independent. At this age does the club actually matter or is it the coach and the team itself that is the key factor. I would be curious to hear other posters valid pros and cons and not so much hearsay about one club or the other. I'm thinking this might help anyone coming to the forum and weighing the option between different teams.

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Re: Big Club vs. Small Club vs. Independent

Post by Guest on 04/06/15, 08:41 am

At this age the club does matter. Some clubs can provide more opportunities than others.

Even still, it's really the coaches within those clubs that have the relationships. I would still be focused on the fit between your kid and the coach, the team's needs, the environment, and whether the team's goals match your daughter's goals.

Independent teams with top quality coaching and opportunities for exposure are a rare find as the kids get older. IMO as independents morph into small clubs, there isn't much practical difference between big club and small club. My kid has been in both.

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Re: Big Club vs. Small Club vs. Independent

Post by Zizou on 04/06/15, 09:29 am

Clubs are pretty much the same! Look for the right coach within these organizations is the key to your DD success. Find that coach that has the experience working with high school players and have a working knowledge how to navigate the college recruiting experience, last make sure the coach that you eventually sign a contract with is genuine and cares about your DD and her interest.

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Re: Big Club vs. Small Club vs. Independent

Post by InaB on 04/06/15, 09:55 am

It doesn't matter really what a club or independent team offers, it is as others said, it is the coach and then the team. Girls need to feel comfortable and part of the team so that has to be there. But first and foremost does she feel comfortable with the coach and coaching style? Are you there to provide her with a good experience and increased abilities? Or are you wanting her on a winning team and not so much whether she develops more as a player?

I have seen any number of girls who were recruited to top teams who wound up warming the bench for the most part. So, other than being able to say that they were on such and such D1 team who won the division, big tournament, etc., did she gain anything?

I think that soccer should provide what the player needs. If she loves playing and wants to play at "her" highest level then go for a coach who can help her do that regardless of whether he is with a club or is independent.

If she just wants to be on a winning team then you go for the top teams in each division.

If she just wants to play for fun and friendship then again, you might want to look for the coach and team rather than the record and club affiliation.

There are many independent and club teams that can offer whatever your daughter needs, you just need to try a variety of teams and not just settle for the first one. And go to more than one or two practices with the teams.

Best to you and your DD.
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Re: Big Club vs. Small Club vs. Independent

Post by MrMiyagi on 04/06/15, 10:39 am

Coaches top priority.
Substantial playing time a factor
Exposure to college coaches important as players get older.
Most important is that the players continue to enjoy playing the sport that they love.
Everything will fall into place.
Even though there is a business aspect. It should never feel like a job.
Good luck
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Re: Big Club vs. Small Club vs. Independent

Post by dadof3 on 04/06/15, 02:35 pm

MrMiyagi wrote:Coaches top priority.
Substantial playing time a factor
Exposure to college coaches important as players get older.
Most important is that the players continue to enjoy playing the sport that they love.
Everything will fall into place.
Even though there is a business aspect. It should never feel like a job.
Good luck

I had been working on a response, but I think Miyagi is right.

I would add that LIKING your team is key as well. It is hard to enjoy going to "work" if you don't like your team mates...Not that you have to be BFFs with all, but that there are friendly faces and camaraderie there. I would put that #3...it affects enjoyment, and not being a job aspects.
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Big club, small club, independent team, look deeper and don'

Post by libertyfcfounder on 05/06/15, 05:52 pm

This is a very good subject. Big club, small club, independent team, look deeper and don't buy the hype.   I am the father of two players(twins). After one of my players played on a U11 team that I considered an unacceptable environment, I organized an independent team.  We started  basically from a group of U12 recreation players.  Although I played American football, coach my son’s football team(played D1 college), I knew that I could not coach these girls. So, we have always hired good coaches(click link latest Coach Fleur).  We have played in Plano Premier League and have had championship in PPL D1 recently.  We missed qualifying for LH last year.  Yes the environment is very important and the coaching is the utmost important.  It is very important that the coach is actually teachings sound soccer technique and tactics vs getting one or two players and booming the ball to them.    NTX soccer judges its coaches for wins and losses and the money usually follows the win-loss brackets(oh, don't forget about those 2 players).   When the player hits 15-16 years of age, the lack of development will show up.  Two reasons:  1st-Player started too late.  2nd- Bad coaching, looks good, talk the walk, but that’s all.  So if you are looking for a player that is sound in soccer technique and tactics look for a team with a good environment and a sound coach with a history of developing soccer players.

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Re: Big Club vs. Small Club vs. Independent

Post by scoobysnacks on 07/06/15, 11:35 am

If you play in LHGCL:

Big club - Pro:

The use of the CPP rule allows big clubs with multiple age grouped teams the benefits of team promotion into the an advanced league without playing the grueling LHGCL Qualifying Tournament.
CPP further benefits big clubs with multiple age grouped teams can borrow upper division (and lower) to help a team gain promotion into upper division or helps teams avoid deserved relegation.

Small Clubs - Con:

Small clubs with only one age grouped team can not benefit from CPP like the Big club teams


The "spirit of the rule" allows Big clubs to use players from within LH and outside of LH (ECNL) players to stop the relegation of teams dying on the vine. Small clubs don't have the pull within LH to lobby for rules that would benefit independents. I've heard one person go as far as to say, "Lake Highlands is only there for the Big Clubs, without us what do they really have?"



Last edited by scoobysnacks on 07/06/15, 06:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Big Club vs. Small Club vs. Independent

Post by MrMiyagi on 07/06/15, 11:49 am

I agree with scooby,
They should play with players from their own roster.
But I would not, nor expect anyone to pay full price to watch their kids ride a bench all season.
Only to be used in case of an unexpected injury.
CPP is okay when used in moderation.
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Re: Big Club vs. Small Club vs. Independent

Post by InaB on 07/06/15, 08:09 pm

CPP isn't always used to promote or prevent relegation, in some cases they are used due to multiple player injuries. I am not arguing that some clubs do use CPP to help their sister teams out, but there have been some legitimate uses. I agree with MrMiyagi that used in moderation and in the right way (upward and not downward) CPP can be ok.

Now, does CPP benefit an independent team? Unfortunately not. Again, perhaps there should be a union for independents where independent teams can band together and borrow players. (I know, far fetched, but then again, I always like to think out of the box.)

In truth, if the rule went away, I don't think any of us would hold a protest. Cool
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Re: Big Club vs. Small Club vs. Independent

Post by SD69 on 07/06/15, 09:20 pm

I'm curious to know the changes LH mentioned in their end of season notice regarding CPP.
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Re: Big Club vs. Small Club vs. Independent

Post by dadof3 on 07/06/15, 09:22 pm

I hope they cut it to 1 player...
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Re: Big Club vs. Small Club vs. Independent

Post by SD69 on 07/06/15, 09:37 pm

Or up divisions only.
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Re: Big Club vs. Small Club vs. Independent

Post by libertyfcfounder on 08/06/15, 11:59 pm


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Re: Big Club vs. Small Club vs. Independent

Post by SD69 on 09/06/15, 07:54 am

From the article. "This leads to the coaches playing a more direct game that’s ill-suited for higher levels."
Did anyone watch the first part of the WNT game last night? I've seen U11 teams work the ball better.
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Re: Big Club vs. Small Club vs. Independent

Post by Guest on 09/06/15, 08:53 am

Win at all costs is definitely part of the problem in that it leads coaches to over-coach (joystick, screaming, yanking players from the field for one mistake), which in turn leads to players who can't think for themselves or are afraid to do so.

But the $$$ focus and lack of time invested by some coaches (and players) is also part of it too. 15 minutes of "skills", a few passing drills, and a scrimmage 2x a week are not going to develop the type of technical players that the women's and men's national teams (should be) looking for. But that kind of half-hearted approach is going to maximize revenue.

FWIW, I thought Tobin changed the game when she went in last night. Both the men and women need more players with the technical skill and IQ to control a game.

libertyfcfounder wrote:This is an article that illustrates my earlier points. Parents please wake up.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/more-sports/soccer/headlines/20150607-why-isn-t-texas-producing-members-of-the-women-s-world-cup-team.ece

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Re: Big Club vs. Small Club vs. Independent

Post by SD69 on 09/06/15, 09:03 am

footbull wrote:Win at all costs is definitely part of the problem in that it leads coaches to over-coach (joystick, screaming, yanking players from the field for one mistake), which in turn leads to players who can't think for themselves or are afraid to do so.  

But the $$$ focus and lack of time invested by some coaches (and players) is also part of it too.  15 minutes of "skills", a few passing drills, and a scrimmage 2x a week are not going to develop the type of technical players that the women's and men's national teams (should be) looking for.  But that kind of half-hearted approach is going to maximize revenue.  

FWIW, I thought Tobin changed the game when she went in last night.   Both the men and women need more players with the technical skill and IQ to control a game.

libertyfcfounder wrote:This is an article that illustrates my earlier points. Parents please wake up.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/more-sports/soccer/headlines/20150607-why-isn-t-texas-producing-members-of-the-women-s-world-cup-team.ece
Heath and Rapinho were the players of the game IMO. Was hoping to see more out of Press (even though she scored) and was disappointed in the whole back line.

Oops, forgot to mention Solo. Very solid game.
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Re: Big Club vs. Small Club vs. Independent

Post by InaB on 09/06/15, 11:35 am

OK, so the telling point is “It’s been going that way for the last 15 years in North Texas, and it’s hard to stop this snowball effect,” Waldrum said. “I think all the coaches would probably will tell you, ‘Yeah, I’d like to play better, I’d like to have better quality of games, but you know what, I have to win or I lose my job,’ or, ‘I have to win or I lose my top kids.’

So perhaps it doesn't matter if it is a big club or an independent team. Perhaps what matters is what we parents do and think. We pressure our players to "win." We pressure our coaches to "win." Winning has become to equate to being good. I have seen players who move to D1 teams to be on a winning top team and wind up sitting on the bench. So is the intent of playing to just be a vicarious member of a winning team? Or is it to become the very best player?

Can we, as parents, aim for something other than a perfect record such as an improved player? Can we encourage our DD to do their homework and work on improving their skills? Can we go out with our DD and spend quality time with her while she works on skills? How many of us mindlessly drop our DD off at practice and go home? How many of us send our DD with another team mate to a game? How many times do we ask the coach if there is something our DD needs to work more on? For that matter, how many times does our DD as the coach the same question?

Yes, we can all say that is what we pay the club/coach for. I know we all believe our DD is the best - because we look at them through our parental glasses. But we all have things we could improve (adults and players).

We all should be striving to improve in what we do - if we don't seek goals, we stagnate.
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