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LH Promotion / Relegation

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LH Promotion / Relegation

Post by ElClassico on 30/06/15, 09:37 am

http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/document/0078/6815/2015-2016_Season_Addendum_2.3.pdf

Interesting that nobody has brought this up yet.

Play all season and then get thrown in a 2 day tournament to stay or get promoted into a division? Hope they eliminate guest players for those. Would be crap to work for months earning a spot only to get knocked out by a team who brings in ringers. DIII pretty much got the short end of the stick in this whole debacle.

Couldn't this all been avoided by simply having 2 divisions next year? 15 teams in each, bottom 5 in DI drop to DII. Top 5 in DII stay in DII. Bottom 10 in DII become DIII in U13. Then have a QT with the bottom 4. Seems a whole lot easier than the crap LH thought up.

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Re: LH Promotion / Relegation

Post by 10sDad on 30/06/15, 09:52 am

I am still not sure why they did the 15/8/10 thing for this year...this cluster could have been avoided if they would have just stuck to the 10/10/10 thing. Politics, I guess.
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Re: LH Promotion / Relegation

Post by KnKsDad on 30/06/15, 10:06 am

I agree with you El, your suggestion would be much simpler and maybe more fair based on my initial overview. If I understand correctly the D2 and D3 winners go into a pool playoff which if they don't win would end up back in the same division they worked all year to win. A team could work all season to prove their worth to be promoted and then have a bad game in the pool playoff cost them.

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Re: LH Promotion / Relegation

Post by Guest on 30/06/15, 10:10 am


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Re: LH Promotion / Relegation

Post by Looking04 on 30/06/15, 10:14 am

There was absolutely no reason to have 15 in DI - teams were included who had absolutely zero chance of being promoted even if they had won all of their remaining games.

Politics maybe?!?

Did they not think when they were admitting 33 teams to U12 that they would have to relegate 8 teams next year?  

First place in DIII isn't guaranteed promotion?  Third place in DIII gets relegated? How fair is that?  What was the point of allowing 33 teams and 4 slots in qualifying, if the likelihood is they will all go through qualification again next year?

Then again - fairness clearly isn't a factor.

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Re: LH Promotion / Relegation

Post by Looking04 on 30/06/15, 10:16 am

The benefit was given this year to teams who were not deserving.

The cost is paid next year by teams who are deserving.

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Re: LH Promotion / Relegation

Post by 10sDad on 30/06/15, 10:23 am

Not that I am trying to use common sense or anything...but there are a few 04 teams that are not going to be able to keep their bye. Why not just eliminate them and re-adjust this year to make it not such a cluster next year? ooops...sorry for the common sense.
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Re: LH Promotion / Relegation

Post by KnKsDad on 30/06/15, 10:24 am

10sDad wrote:I am still not sure why they did the 15/8/10 thing for this year...this cluster could have been avoided if they would have just stuck to the 10/10/10 thing.  Politics, I guess.

I assume you probably didn't have a dog in that fight. With respect to the D1/2 situation which I am familar with, that may have been simpler, but probably not fair to a couple of the D1 bubble teams. Teams #8 to #15 were pretty close with most having one or more remaining games against the others in that pack and/or against bottom teams so there were several teams still in the hunt for spots #9/10. LH tried to at least do what was fair in this case once the season got to the point it did.

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Re: LH Promotion / Relegation

Post by Looking04 on 30/06/15, 10:30 am

However, there were at least a couple teams who had zero mathematical chance to make D1.

They were rewarded with a D1 slot.

Cheapens it for those who actually earned their position.

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Re: LH Promotion / Relegation

Post by KnKsDad on 30/06/15, 10:34 am

jibjab2 wrote:There was absolutely no reason to have 15 in DI - teams were included who had absolutely zero chance of being promoted even if they had won all of their remaining games.

Politics maybe?!?

Did they not think when they were admitting 33 teams to U12 that they would have to relegate 8 teams next year?  

First place in DIII isn't guaranteed promotion?  Third place in DIII gets relegated?  How fair is that?  What was the point of allowing 33 teams and 4 slots in qualifying, if the likelihood is they will all go through qualification again next year?

Then again - fairness clearly isn't a factor.

I probably agree with most of what you're saying with respect to what's gonna happen next year, but how would you have handled the D1 situation for this year? Where would your cut off have been? See my previous statement above. If you were affiliated with any of those affected teams you understood the dilemma.

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Re: LH Promotion / Relegation

Post by KnKsDad on 30/06/15, 10:37 am

jibjab2 wrote:However, there were at least a couple teams who had zero mathematical chance to make D1.

They were rewarded with a D1 slot.

Cheapens it for those who actually earned their position.

So your team was either at the top of D1 or the bottom..or maybe not in D1 at all, which is it?

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Re: LH Promotion / Relegation

Post by ElClassico on 30/06/15, 10:41 am

KnKsDad wrote:I agree with you El, your suggestion would be much simpler and maybe more fair based on my initial overview. If I understand correctly the D2 and D3 winners go into a pool playoff which if they don't win would end up back in the same division they worked all year to win. A team could work all season to prove their worth to be promoted and then have a bad game in the pool playoff cost them.

How about the team in 3rd place in D3 next year? Finish 3rd and have to requalify? Mad
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Re: LH Promotion / Relegation

Post by Looking04 on 30/06/15, 10:44 am

The team my daughter is on has no relevance to the FACT that Solar Chelsea and Sting Hilton were mathematically eliminated.

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Re: LH Promotion / Relegation

Post by Looking04 on 30/06/15, 10:55 am

And why the need to expand to 33 teams?  LHGCL already awarded 3 teams, who otherwise would have been relegated, spots in DIII.  Yes, because of the weather and the mathematical possibility.

So - LHGCL effectively reduced the qualification field by 3 teams.  

SO . . . who says they have to allow 4 teams in thru qualifying?  3 extra already made it.  Let 2 make it in thru qualifying, and next year, the top 4 in DIII do not have to requalify.  

In addition, with only 13 teams (who earned it) in D1, you now have 10 teams in D2, 8 teams in D3. 5 relegated from D1 to D2, D2 winner moves to D1, 5 relegated from D2 to D3, D3 winner moves up to D2.

or - have a similar playoff, but the D2 winner, who has earned promotion, moves up and the D2 second and necessary # of D1 teams playoff for the final D1 slot. Same for D2.

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Re: LH Promotion / Relegation

Post by VultureVic on 30/06/15, 10:56 am

jibjab2 wrote:The team my daughter is on has no relevance to the FACT that Solar Chelsea and Sting Hilton were mathematically eliminated.


So we can assume your dd was on neither of those teams. Does she play for tsn?

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Re: LH Promotion / Relegation

Post by SD69 on 30/06/15, 11:02 am

jibjab2 wrote:
In addition, with only 13 teams (who earned it) in D1, you now have 10 teams in D2, 8 teams in D3.  5 relegated from D1 to D2, D2 winner moves to D1, 5 relegated from D2 to D3, D3 winner moves up to D2.
With 13 teams, how do you play this out? Play 12 league games through the year or play 24? Could be they let TSN, Solar, and Sting in so they could have a 14 game league.
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Re: LH Promotion / Relegation

Post by Looking04 on 30/06/15, 11:10 am

Could be.  Could also have 12 league games and "pre-season" friendlies to get to 16 or 18.

Doesn't change the fact that teams who did not earn the slot were awarded it.

Also, doesn't change the ability to have 8 teams this year in D3.


and doesn't change:

The benefit was given this year to teams who were not deserving.

The cost is paid next year by teams who are deserving.

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Re: LH Promotion / Relegation

Post by KnKsDad on 30/06/15, 12:18 pm

VultureVic wrote:
jibjab2 wrote:The team my daughter is on has no relevance to the FACT that Solar Chelsea and Sting Hilton were mathematically eliminated.


So we can assume your dd was on neither of those teams. Does she play for tsn?

Nope, because if she did there would be a certain feeling of kinship with all of the other sorry undeserving teams that were gifted a spot in D1 for this upcoming season. Razz

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Re: LH Promotion / Relegation

Post by Looking04 on 30/06/15, 12:28 pm

KnKsDad wrote:
VultureVic wrote:
jibjab2 wrote:The team my daughter is on has no relevance to the FACT that Solar Chelsea and Sting Hilton were mathematically eliminated.


So we can assume your dd was on neither of those teams. Does she play for tsn?

Nope, because if she did there would be a certain feeling of kinship with all of the other sorry undeserving teams that were gifted a spot in D1 for this upcoming season. Razz

Good point - thanks for catching my mistake.

Texas Spirit North - also mathematically ineligible (loses tiebreaker to Chacon).

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Re: LH Promotion / Relegation

Post by soccerpapa2 on 01/07/15, 06:39 am

So if read this correctly, on 9 teams in D1 next year?
1-8 get byes plus the winner of playoffs.

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Re: LH Promotion / Relegation

Post by ElClassico on 01/07/15, 07:17 am

Obviously you missed LH's explanation. ;-)

1-8 get a bye so that's 8 teams

Plus the winner of a playoff between 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, and the winner of DII so that's 1 more team.

And using new common core math 8+1=10
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Re: LH Promotion / Relegation

Post by soccerpapa2 on 01/07/15, 07:28 am

Thanks for the math lesson but it it says D2 winner goes to D1 Playoffs. 8+1=9.

U12 DII = 8 Teams
1st place earns a BYE and position in DI pool playoff matches

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Re: LH Promotion / Relegation

Post by ElClassico on 01/07/15, 07:38 am

But they stated that their intention was to return to 10/10/10. They will accomplish this by adding the winner of the playoffs with the other 8 teams.

8+1 it's as simple as that. Razz
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Re: LH Promotion / Relegation

Post by SFFL5 on 01/07/15, 08:07 am

soccerpapa2 wrote:So if read this correctly, on 9 teams in D1 next year?
1-8 get byes plus the winner of playoffs.

1 thru 8 earn a bye and remain in D1. 9 thru 13, as well as the 1st place of D2, will be placed in one of the two 3 team pools. the winner of the pools will get a D1 spot. 8+2 pool winners = 10

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Re: LH Promotion / Relegation

Post by Looking04 on 01/07/15, 08:22 am

SFFL5 wrote:
soccerpapa2 wrote:So if read this correctly, on 9 teams in D1 next year?
1-8 get byes plus the winner of playoffs.

1 thru 8 earn a bye and remain in D1. 9 thru 13, as well as the 1st place of D2, will be placed in one of the two 3 team pools. the winner of the pools will get a D1 spot. 8+2 pool winners = 10

You have to read the fine print:

DI pool playoff matches will be played with 6 teams in 2 pools. Pool winners advance to play in a final with the winner advancing to DI and all others move to DII.

Only 1 team of the 6 will be placed in D1.  8+1=9.  At U13, LHGCL has traditionally moved to only 9 teams in D1.

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