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True Age/Age Pure

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Re: True Age/Age Pure

Post by Triumph FC on 27/07/15, 05:06 pm

Well Alex Morgan didn't start playing until she was 14 so eliminated 11v11 at U11. There's one!
I don't agree with age pure but 11v11 at U11 on an adult field is stupid


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Re: True Age/Age Pure

Post by RightWingDad on 27/07/15, 05:10 pm

My opinion is that most girls (maybe not all) at the U11 age on the big fields, and sometimes U12 don't have the leg strength to switch the field or make accurate longer passes with enough pace on the ball to maintain possession. Now kickball, yes, they can do that...but that's another topic for another day.

Fortunately there are no kickball teams here in NTX ;-)
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Re: True Age/Age Pure

Post by SOUTHOFTHETRACKS on 27/07/15, 05:16 pm

Triumph FC wrote:Well Alex Morgan didn't start playing until she was 14 so eliminated 11v11 at U11. There's one!
I don't agree with age pure but 11v11 at U11 on an adult field is stupid


Well there ya have it... that's the problem with North Texas. .. we allow our girls to play soccer before they are 14.  I'm taking my kid out right now... in all seriousness, I get what you're saying about the size of he field, but many girls I have seen play can put the ball in the middle of the box with ease on a corner... and the field doesn't seem too big for them to play quality soccer. My problem with so many of the responses as to why the change is to be more like the world. .. well, our women beat the world and until our best men athletes play soccer , nothing will help there. Just a fact!
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Re: True Age/Age Pure

Post by timmyh on 27/07/15, 05:17 pm

Think U11's should be playing on a full size pitch?
Watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9Pc1vf_tlg
Pretty funny, but true.

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Re: True Age/Age Pure

Post by Triumph FC on 27/07/15, 05:20 pm

I posted that about an hour ago
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Re: True Age/Age Pure

Post by timmyh on 27/07/15, 05:21 pm

oops. missed it. think you're exactly right, though.

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Re: True Age/Age Pure

Post by herradura on 27/07/15, 06:00 pm

SOUTHOFTHETRACKS wrote:
Triumph FC wrote:Well Alex Morgan didn't start playing until she was 14 so eliminated 11v11 at U11. There's one!
I don't agree with age pure but 11v11 at U11 on an adult field is stupid


Well there ya have it... that's the problem with North Texas. .. we allow our girls to play soccer before they are 14.  I'm taking my kid out right now... in all seriousness, I get what you're saying about the size of he field, but many girls I have seen play can put the ball in the middle of the box with ease on a corner... and the field doesn't seem too big for them to play quality soccer. My  problem with so many of the responses as to why the change is to be more like the world. .. well, our women beat the world and until our best men athletes play soccer , nothing will help there. Just a fact!

South, you seem to be the jackass Dad with the run fast, kick hard kid that by the time are 14, will be out skilled and benched. You will say she is "burned out" and "into boys". Or maybe you just fed her cheap, hormone infused food and milk and that is why she is bigger and faster and more "developed" at an earlier age - oh wait, she's an 02 birth year? Uh-oh, the bench may happen a bit early my friend...

Maybe you should go get a six pack and watch MMA for a while or something. It would be better use of your time other than debating with a very tenured Coach about development. Very Happy
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Re: True Age/Age Pure

Post by rzrFC on 27/07/15, 06:09 pm

Fact...fewer players on the pitch=more touches.  I find it ironic that many of the same people that recognize the benefits of Futsal and 3v3 think that playing 11v11 at U9 is the way to go.

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Re: True Age/Age Pure

Post by SOUTHOFTHETRACKS on 27/07/15, 06:14 pm

herradura wrote:
SOUTHOFTHETRACKS wrote:
Triumph FC wrote:Well Alex Morgan didn't start playing until she was 14 so eliminated 11v11 at U11. There's one!
I don't agree with age pure but 11v11 at U11 on an adult field is stupid


Well there ya have it... that's the problem with North Texas. .. we allow our girls to play soccer before they are 14.  I'm taking my kid out right now... in all seriousness, I get what you're saying about the size of he field, but many girls I have seen play can put the ball in the middle of the box with ease on a corner... and the field doesn't seem too big for them to play quality soccer. My  problem with so many of the responses as to why the change is to be more like the world. .. well, our women beat the world and until our best men athletes play soccer , nothing will help there. Just a fact!

South, you seem to be the jackass Dad with the run fast, kick hard kid that by the time are 14, will be out skilled and benched. You will say she is "burned out" and "into boys". Or maybe you just fed her cheap, hormone infused food and milk and that is why she is bigger and faster and more "developed" at an earlier age - oh wait, she's an 02 birth year? Uh-oh, the bench may happen a bit early my friend...

Maybe you should go get a six pack and watch MMA for a while or something. It would be better use of your time other than debating with a very tenured Coach about development. Very Happy

Wasn't debating anything... I don't know which one is better for development. I was simply stating that I had an issue as to what people were saying is the reason for the change (and sure it might seem like I have an issue not allowing u10 or u11 to play 11 v 11 but I don't... I don't like the idea of calendar year but only because of the "classmates thing"...) which is to be more like the rest of the world. That was it... sure I said a sarcastic response about taking my kid out until 14, but I got jokes too...
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Re: True Age/Age Pure

Post by Sho'Nuff on 27/07/15, 06:29 pm

herradura wrote:
SOUTHOFTHETRACKS wrote:
Triumph FC wrote:Well Alex Morgan didn't start playing until she was 14 so eliminated 11v11 at U11. There's one!
I don't agree with age pure but 11v11 at U11 on an adult field is stupid


Well there ya have it... that's the problem with North Texas. .. we allow our girls to play soccer before they are 14.  I'm taking my kid out right now... in all seriousness, I get what you're saying about the size of he field, but many girls I have seen play can put the ball in the middle of the box with ease on a corner... and the field doesn't seem too big for them to play quality soccer. My  problem with so many of the responses as to why the change is to be more like the world. .. well, our women beat the world and until our best men athletes play soccer , nothing will help there. Just a fact!

South, you seem to be the jackass Dad with the run fast, kick hard kid that by the time are 14, will be out skilled and benched. You will say she is "burned out" and "into boys". Or maybe you just fed her cheap, hormone infused food and milk and that is why she is bigger and faster and more "developed" at an earlier age - oh wait, she's an 02 birth year? Uh-oh, the bench may happen a bit early my friend...

Maybe you should go get a six pack and watch MMA for a while or something. It would be better use of your time other than debating with a very tenured Coach about development. Very Happy

South, someone always gets worked up at any mention of 'athletes'.

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Re: True Age/Age Pure

Post by MrRogers on 27/07/15, 07:08 pm

timmyh wrote:Think U11's should be playing on a full size pitch?
Watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9Pc1vf_tlg
Pretty funny, but true.

We have u11s that put the ball mid post on full sized field.

I dont understand this Dribble every kid to develop same pace and level when every kid does not.

Let the kids who get it early mentally and physically play advanced when they are able vs holding these kids back.

And yes, the top players also play futsal and small sided games at the same time. It's best if both world.

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Re: True Age/Age Pure

Post by Adrenalinetx on 27/07/15, 07:37 pm

That's the problem. Parents don't understand developing and time. What's the rush ? Last time I check scholarship etc start around 10th- 11th grade. Let the kid develop and learn

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Re: True Age/Age Pure

Post by MrRogers on 27/07/15, 08:06 pm

Adrenalinetx wrote:That's the problem. Parents don't understand developing and time. What's the rush ?  Last time I check scholarship etc start around 10th- 11th grade.  Let the kid develop and learn

Are you one of those parents who believes we should not have honors classes because not every kid can learn at fastest pace?

Why is soccer any different? There are 11 years olds far beyond 16 year olds skill wise and tactically. You will now take some of that away.

Play should be based on levels not ages.

American way now it seems is to f.o.r.c.e all to lowest common denominator.

And not every kid is playing for scholarships. That's the point here. There are different reasons, expectations, goals, levels, and rates of development. Why make every kid go through the same square peg?

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Re: True Age/Age Pure

Post by Adrenalinetx on 27/07/15, 08:10 pm

Lol you don't get it.

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Re: True Age/Age Pure

Post by Guest on 28/07/15, 06:36 am

MrRogers wrote:
timmyh wrote:Think U11's should be playing on a full size pitch?
Watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9Pc1vf_tlg
Pretty funny, but true.

We have u11s that put the ball mid post on full sized field.

I dont understand this Dribble every kid to develop same pace and level when every kid does not.

Let the kids who get it early mentally and physically play advanced when they are able vs holding these kids back.

And yes, the top players also play futsal and small sided games at the same time. It's best if both world.

If there is a player that is advanced you are correct they should be pushed...

but in order to establish the push and development that child should be placed with older age groups....

Go and speak with a national team coach at one of the Training camps held here locally... so what if someone can kick a ball far, if the player is advanced they should be playing up as far as possible. They will be the first ones to tell you that.

honestly though, most of you would not really want that, because then everyone can kick it far, and they just blend in or end up on the bench... early physical bloomers does not mean they are advanced soccer players.

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Re: True Age/Age Pure

Post by GrandTXSoccer on 28/07/15, 07:03 am

At U-11 & U-12 my personal belief is that the majority of kids should still be playing 9v9 because the majority of the kids can't do things on a big field that they need to do. Yes there are some kids out there with the leg strength and definitely the skills to play on the bigger fields and I think they should be allowed to play up if they so choose. I think by going to the smaller fields and smaller rosters I think the level of competition would increase, yes you will still have some "super" teams but for the most part I think you'd see better overall competition. Playing on smaller fields hurts the bigger, faster kids as much as anything. I always preferred to be on a smaller field when it came time to play the teams with the super fast forwards and defenders that like to blast it. Most fast kids are able to get to a top speed and maintain it which allows them to break away from the pack, on a small field there's less room for them to actually break away so it's easier to cover them. The big kids with the big legs simply kick the ball hard with no plan on where it's going. I'm not too worried about someone scoring from midfield, personally I welcomed the kids that thought they could because they aren't skillful enough to aim the ball from that distance. What I would generally see is a ton of goal kicks from long balls sent way too long and across the end line.

It doesn't take too many games like that to break the coaches and players of that style.

Now at the age this 03 group is at is probably the perfect time to transition to the larger fields.

One last thing though, I don't think our girls playing on 11v11 fields at a young age has one thing to do with NTX not having any girls on the USWNT. Politics and a weak ODP program over the years has as much to do with it as anything. If anything our girls from NT should be better suited for the USWNT style of send it long and run onto the ball based on the typical style most teams play around here.

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Re: True Age/Age Pure

Post by Sho'Nuff on 28/07/15, 08:01 am

GrandTXSoccer wrote:At U-11 & U-12 my personal belief is that the majority of kids should still be playing 9v9 because the majority of the kids can't do things on a big field that they need to do. Yes there are some kids out there with the leg strength and definitely the skills to play on the bigger fields and I think they should be allowed to play up if they so choose. I think by going to the smaller fields and smaller rosters I think the level of competition would increase, yes you will still have some "super" teams but for the most part I think you'd see better overall competition. Playing on smaller fields hurts the bigger, faster kids as much as anything. I always preferred to be on a smaller field when it came time to play the teams with the super fast forwards and defenders that like to blast it. Most fast kids are able to get to a top speed and maintain it which allows them to break away from the pack, on a small field there's less room for them to actually break away so it's easier to cover them. The big kids with the big legs simply kick the ball hard with no plan on where it's going. I'm not too worried about someone scoring from midfield, personally I welcomed the kids that thought they could because they aren't skillful enough to aim the ball from that distance. What I would generally see is a ton of goal kicks from long balls sent way too long and across the end line.

It doesn't take too many games like that to break the coaches and players of that style.

Now at the age this 03 group is at is probably the perfect time to transition to the larger fields.

One last thing though, I don't think our girls playing on 11v11 fields at a young age has one thing to do with NTX not having any girls on the USWNT. Politics and a weak ODP program over the years has as much to do with it as anything. If anything our girls from NT should be better suited for the USWNT style of send it long and run onto the ball based on the typical style most teams play around here.

Fantastic post! I just want to add that the fast kid's advantage being negated on a small field isn't 'hurting' them. Yes, in the short-term, they may not be as dominant. That doesn't mean their development is being retarded.

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Re: True Age/Age Pure

Post by bwgophers on 28/07/15, 08:13 am

Sho'nuff wrote:  I just want to add that the fast kid's advantage being negated on a small field isn't 'hurting' them.  

Right... Stop that!

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Re: True Age/Age Pure

Post by Son_ofa_Pitch on 28/07/15, 08:18 am

Can I ask - What has it done for South Texas playing on smaller fields (8v8)?  Is it the smaller fields or is it coaching?
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Re: True Age/Age Pure

Post by MrRogers on 28/07/15, 08:30 am

Son_ofa_Pitch wrote:Can I ask - What has it done for South Texas playing on smaller fields (8v8)?  Is it the smaller fields or is it coaching?

Please dont ask these questions. You'll warp the minds of all the great soccer gurus here.

Also, small fields don't remove or reduce focus on athleticism. It simply turns the dial and edge from big girls with top end speed to girls who have developed early in agility and quickness. Lazy coaches will still depend on early bloomers if only a different category.

It's training and coaching that makes better players during the 90% of time girls are not playing actual games.

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Re: True Age/Age Pure

Post by AtThePitch on 28/07/15, 08:35 am

STX's issues deal with lack of organization. Most everything is some form of rec until u10 on the girls side... Club politics and parent issues are huge problems... makes us all look like perfect citizens in NTX.
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Re: True Age/Age Pure

Post by SickofStupidity on 28/07/15, 08:49 am

MrRogers wrote:
Son_ofa_Pitch wrote:Can I ask - What has it done for South Texas playing on smaller fields (8v8)?  Is it the smaller fields or is it coaching?

Please dont ask these questions. You'll warp the minds of all the great soccer gurus here.

Also, small fields don't remove or reduce focus on athleticism. It simply turns the dial and edge from big girls with top end speed to girls who have developed early in agility and quickness. Lazy coaches will still depend on early bloomers if only a different category.

It's training and coaching that makes better players during the 90% of time girls are not playing actual games.

Which is more likely to happen:

1 - Coaches see the light.  They suddenly reform their focus from winning to development.  They see the changes as an opportunity to teach skills and develop the style of play US soccer is looking for.  Those who have a track record of NOT being able to develop skills will obtain additional training as they recommit their lives to player development.

2 - Coaches find another way to win.  Kickball doesn't work?  They will find something else, and disregard the "spirit" of the changes.  Got a kid who can blast it from the new half-line?  Sign them up!  Got some big lumbering kid who can mow over anyone who gets close to the goal?  Scholarship time!  The same coaches don't, ultimately, have the ability to develop players, and will continue to do what they can to win, because winning brings in more players, and more players bring in more money.

Would fewer field players result in smaller teams, or less playing time?  If coaches and clubs are willing to reduce the number of players on a team, something has to give - either fees go up, or practice times decrease so the coach can carry more teams.  If you don't reduce practice times, but have fewer players per team, then you need more coaches - do you think they will be, in general, better or worse at player development than what you have now?

My dd has worked with fantastic coaches who have developed all areas of her game - skills, confidence, awareness, vision, etc., - and coaches who couldn't manage their way out of a paper bag. Very little of her development was impacted by the size of field she played on.

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Re: True Age/Age Pure

Post by Son_ofa_Pitch on 28/07/15, 09:28 am

AtThePitch wrote:STX's issues deal with lack of organization. Most everything is some form of rec until u10 on the girls side... Club politics and parent issues are huge problems... makes us all look like perfect citizens in NTX.

Hard to tell me a city with roughly with 4 million people can't form at least 20 strong teams... Suspect
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Re: True Age/Age Pure

Post by AtThePitch on 28/07/15, 09:31 am

Son_ofa_Pitch wrote:
AtThePitch wrote:STX's issues deal with lack of organization. Most everything is some form of rec until u10 on the girls side... Club politics and parent issues are huge problems... makes us all look like perfect citizens in NTX.

Hard to tell me a city with roughly with 4 million people can't form at least 20 strong teams... Suspect

Hard to believe but true.... just read their forum.. makes this one look like a blog written by the barefoot contessa.

So much disorganization, clubs run their own in house mini leagues... it's like the wild wild west down there.
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Re: True Age/Age Pure

Post by YANKS ON THE PITCH on 28/07/15, 11:00 am

BurnOnYou wrote:I may be putting my head in the sand but I don't see this being put into affect.  Put aside all the huge changes, what will happen to clubs who don't have a team in the next age bracket?  They have to lose all those girls?
Easy to say play up, but an 03 team in say D1 can't just play up.  Unless the club as a bye to offer them that team is going to have to qualify...
Lots of money on the line, I see lawyers getting involved if such a rampant change is forced onto so many thousands of kids.
I can see the change being implemented to all non select kids going forward, but the powers that be couldn't figure out how to deal with team movement due to some canceled games....
We expect them to figure this out???

Remember this will be a universal change so if our 03's have 6 girls actual 02's, the current 02 Team may have 4-5 actual 01's who will also have to move and so on up the ladder the true birth year kids will be jammed together. Some top teams will fight to stay together and I'm sure the top 5 teams may have the talent to play up but the majority will be in true birth year teams.
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Re: True Age/Age Pure

Post by NorthDallasSoccer on 28/07/15, 11:49 am

Yanks, you keep saying this but that hasn't been decided locally yet. Let's wait and see on implementation. There are so many moving parts to this that you cannot simply say "boom" and off you go. There was a fantastic post by one of the club directors speaking to all the moving parts - possibly in the 06 subforum. This involves UTD, municipalities, clubs, multiple sanctioning bodies and registrars. Possible re-qualification. Stuff like this ends leagues and entire clubs if not done right. Some may like that, but that sort of dislocation always carries costs that go beyond simply finding a new team. This will be a tough one to sort out.
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