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CPP Rule Change

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Re: CPP Rule Change

Post by ballhead on 14/08/15, 12:24 pm

rockindaddy wrote:I don't think anyone is going to try and pacify those strongly against CPP at this point because over the last couple of years there has been numerous multipage threads on the subject.  As a parent of an older DD I would suggest to worry less about CPP , Age Pure, Ghost players and just enjoy watching your DD play a game she hopefully loves. Enjoy the moment it will be over before you realize.

That's a fact. In retrospect, these select soccer years go by so fast. Mine's in college now, and I certainly miss the year round soccer!

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Re: CPP Rule Change

Post by KnKsDad on 14/08/15, 02:19 pm

Zizou wrote:I see no difference than in the academy system with multiple teams in a age division sharing players. Yes, usually it is the A team supporting the B and C teams. All clubs big and small at the academy divisions are doing this for extra touches, games and winning. At the younger age its deemed developement but of course in select when what division your team is more important than anything else the CPP is cheating. Lol

In my recent personal experience with academy, it was never used against my dd's team for extra touches or games, it was used for winning and to gain an unfair advantage and it's being used for the same purpose in select.

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Re: CPP Rule Change

Post by Lefty on 14/08/15, 02:41 pm

I don't buy the injury angle.

In 18+ seasons of LHGCL/ECNL for my DD's teams not once has there been a injury situation where it would have created a situation that they would have needed to bring in a CPP or any other player to field a competitive team.

Sure there were times players were out or nicked up and it may have cost their team a game or two and a spot in the standings, or not getting out of regionals, but that is what having a team is all about.  Players moved around, others stepped up their game, etc. You live or die with the roster the coach selected.

Either way would be ok.  Have a team with a fixed roster and function as a team, or open roster w/I a club and function as a pool.  Just pick one or the other.

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Re: CPP Rule Change

Post by Guest on 14/08/15, 04:09 pm

Why?   The rule says exactly why.


G. Club Pass Players
The LHGCL board of directors believes that the rule was incorporated in order to fulfill two basic needs:
 Foster the development of players by allowing them to participate within their
own club at a higher level of competition without the commitment of a roster
transfer.
 To assist teams that may be short sided due to injury, illness, or other

The problem is, the most often reason CPP's show up on a roster is "other" and "other equals bring in a ringer to earn league points.

Who wanted this rule? Dallas Texans and Sting spoke in favor of it at the board meeting. Everyone else remained silent or spoke against it. All the ways it has been used were brought to light in that meeting. The Board members assured everyone that exactly what has happened, would not happen. Read the rule, it's pretty good until you get to "other". That one word completely changes the meaning of everything that comes before it.  "Other" means you can do as you please.......and they have.  

The argument of "everybody else is doing it"?  That's the chosen argument of people  with low standards and it dates to before the Romans or the Greeks. It was a crap argument 2500 years ago....and it still is.

I need to volunteer???????   I have volunteered.  They don't want my help. I could guess about the reasons why they don't want my help, but it would just be a guess.

CBT, you are correct. No one has given any "reasons" why this rule is needed.  I've asked those same questions many times. The stated reasons for the rule were subverted by adding the word "other", and that happened before the first CPP ever set foot on the field.
You're not gonna get a real answer. You might get called a few names, you might get some platitudes, but you'll not get an answer. Actually, you already know the answers, you've stated them.

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Re: CPP Rule Change

Post by Zizou on 14/08/15, 05:11 pm

KnKsDad wrote:
Zizou wrote:I see no difference than in the academy system with multiple teams in a age division sharing players. Yes, usually it is the A team supporting the B and C teams. All clubs big and small at the academy divisions are doing this for extra touches, games and winning. At the younger age its deemed developement but of course in select when what division your team is more important than anything else the CPP is cheating. Lol

In my recent personal experience with academy, it was never used against my dd's team for extra touches or games, it was used for winning and to gain an unfair advantage and it's being used for the same purpose in select.

Okay your opinion, but what about that player that gets the opportunity to play with the top players within a club. I have seen players gain valuable experience and increased confidence when given these opportunities. But yeah, that's my experience.

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Re: CPP Rule Change

Post by CBTeamworks on 14/08/15, 06:54 pm

Zizou wrote:
KnKsDad wrote:
Zizou wrote:I see no difference than in the academy system with multiple teams in a age division sharing players. Yes, usually it is the A team supporting the B and C teams. All clubs big and small at the academy divisions are doing this for extra touches, games and winning. At the younger age its deemed developement but of course in select when what division your team is more important than anything else the CPP is cheating. Lol

In my recent personal experience with academy, it was never used against my dd's team for extra touches or games, it was used for winning and to gain an unfair advantage and it's being used for the same purpose in select.

Okay your opinion, but what about that player that gets the opportunity to play with the top players within a club. I have seen players gain valuable experience and increased confidence when given these opportunities. But yeah, that's my experience.
Sounds like there are ways that it can be a bonus (players playing up) but playing down is an abuse of the rule and should be illegal.

How many more breaks do these large clubs need? The club gets to keep the bye when a team implodes or a coach switches clubs. The rainouts gave the league an excuse not to relegate anybody. It's total protection of the big clubs and once you're in it takes an epic fail over multiple seasons to drop out.

It's the top 20 teams in DFW but it's not the top 30 due to CPP and "Club Retains the Bye".
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Re: CPP Rule Change

Post by ElClassico on 14/08/15, 07:43 pm

Can someone actually say that the rule has damaged their daughter's development? I doubt it. All the complaints have to do with hurt parent feelings about a win or a loss somewhere along the line. Everyone just hides it in a "it's about development" poat IMO
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Re: CPP Rule Change

Post by CBTeamworks on 15/08/15, 12:13 am

ElClassico wrote:Can someone actually say that the rule has damaged their daughter's development? I doubt it. All the complaints have to do with hurt parent feelings about a win or a loss somewhere along the line. Everyone just hides it in a "it's about development" poat IMO
You missed the point in an effort to defend this. The kids, coaches and parents want to win and they deserve a level playing field opportunity to accomplish their goals regardless of whether they play for a big club with 7 teams per age group or a small club with one. When the kids, coaches and parents aren't given an equal opportunity to win games then they've been cheated. Might as well have a rule that gives each team from a large club a one goal lead to start every game. If we did that I'm sure some idiot would defend it by saying that it helps with the development of the kids because adversity makes them tougher.
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Re: CPP Rule Change

Post by Zizou on 15/08/15, 06:21 am

CBTeamworks wrote:
ElClassico wrote:Can someone actually say that the rule has damaged their daughter's development? I doubt it. All the complaints have to do with hurt parent feelings about a win or a loss somewhere along the line. Everyone just hides it in a "it's about development" poat IMO
You missed the point in an effort to defend this. The kids, coaches and parents want to win and they deserve a level playing field opportunity to accomplish their goals regardless of whether they play for a big club with 7 teams per age group or a small club with one. When the kids, coaches and parents aren't given an equal opportunity to win games then they've been cheated. Might as well have a rule that gives each team from a large club a one goal lead to start every game. If we did that I'm sure some idiot would defend it by saying that it helps with the development of the kids because adversity makes them tougher.

So, what your saying is my DD will not gain any advantage by playing with or against better players? Hell she enjoys the academy style training going against to top players in the club. Also training and playing against younger and older players in the academy. Being stuck with the same coach playing with the same players with zero ability to advance because our young players are held hostage for a year. No thank you! You chose your club and your team. Try being happy that she gets to play and enjoy the game. If that's not the case you are welcome to come join my DD. she would be happy to play with or against her.

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Re: CPP Rule Change

Post by ElClassico on 15/08/15, 06:25 am

I'm not "defending" anything but simply trying to say that in the big picture of your DD's soccer career it doesn't matter. By the way, your "little club" has the choice to play in LH or not. Want the rule changed? Hit LH where it hurts, their pockets. Maybe if enough teams do this they'll make the change. Or, maybe it backfires and another small club may just suck it up and take your place.
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Re: CPP Rule Change

Post by Zizou on 15/08/15, 06:31 am

Well, their you go! That was easy!

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Re: CPP Rule Change

Post by KnKsDad on 15/08/15, 04:44 pm

Zizou wrote:
KnKsDad wrote:
Zizou wrote:I see no difference than in the academy system with multiple teams in a age division sharing players. Yes, usually it is the A team supporting the B and C teams. All clubs big and small at the academy divisions are doing this for extra touches, games and winning. At the younger age its deemed developement but of course in select when what division your team is more important than anything else the CPP is cheating. Lol

In my recent personal experience with academy, it was never used against my dd's team for extra touches or games, it was used for winning and to gain an unfair advantage and it's being used for the same purpose in select.

Okay your opinion, but what about than t player that gets the opportunity to play with the top players within a club. I have seen players gain valuable experience and increased confidence when given these opportunities. But yeah, that's my experience.

This playing ring around the rosies is wearing me out. I think most do not have a problem conceptually with players "playing up". That's generally been established so why continue to belabor that point? But if one is being honest, they'd have to also admit though that is not how this rule is being used either.  Since NTX currently does not have a farm system type structure in their club system what does playing up really even mean? The rule is not being used to compensate for injuries or to develop "lower" level players, it's being used to allow lower ranked/quality teams to borrow higher skilled players - players more skilled than those available on their official roster, to try to win games or avoid losing games.

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