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04 Plano Labor Day Tournament 2015

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Re: 04 Plano Labor Day Tournament 2015

Post by purplefrog on Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:20 pm

My predictions to get out of bracket play

GOLD

1) Feet Black
2) Sting Hilton

1) FCD Elite
2) TSC Griffin

1) DT Scott
2) Solar

WC) DT Red
WC) Odyssey

Silver A

1) Houston Express
2) FC Premier

1) Sting North
2) LP Gerrard

1) Dallas Kicks
2) FCD Central

1) Mustangs
2) SRFC


Last edited by purplefrog on Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:32 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : had the sting teams mixed up)

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Re: 04 Plano Labor Day Tournament 2015

Post by KnKsDad on Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:50 pm

dreadpirateroberts wrote:
KnKsDad wrote:In order of strength: Bracket 2, 1, then 3. No, not because we are in 2, but because in my opinion TSN is best #3 seed and Gutierrez is the best #4, and frankly because FCD Elite is probably the #1. That's if teams play straight up. If ringers then that could go out the window.

The draw is interesting.  Bracket one is a bit favored imo, they won't face another top seed until the championship (if I am reading it correctly). I disagree and feel maybe Ando is a better 3 seed, but really it is all conjecture.  So many of these teams are revamped and we don't have enough history on them yet.  This weekend will definitely help us see who each team is.

I wasn't referring to which bracket is favored, but strength top to bottom. And Andro isn't (or likely shouldn't be) the #3 in Bracket 1, but the #4 seed. And for them to be the better 3 seed would have to make them better than TSN, Pulp and Red and I just don't think that will prove out to be the case. No disrespect to Andro and the strength of their team as they very well could be a stronger team this year.  Like you said, it's just conjecture right now. I get the sense though that some posters on here (and I'm not directing this at you) who are connected with D2 and D3 teams somewhat underestimate the quality of the lower end D1 teams, perhaps feeling that they are on par with them when that gap is actually a bit wider at this point than they may think IMO. I'm speaking in general terms. I know there will likely be an exception or two that this season will reveal and PLD may give us an early glimpse of.

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Re: 04 Plano Labor Day Tournament 2015

Post by Sweet_feet99 on Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:55 pm

I'm thinking TSN gets second in bracket. And not so sure bout Super Sting over DT Red either.
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Re: 04 Plano Labor Day Tournament 2015

Post by SickofStupidity on Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:21 pm

KnKsDad wrote:
dreadpirateroberts wrote:
KnKsDad wrote:In order of strength: Bracket 2, 1, then 3. No, not because we are in 2, but because in my opinion TSN is best #3 seed and Gutierrez is the best #4, and frankly because FCD Elite is probably the #1. That's if teams play straight up. If ringers then that could go out the window.

The draw is interesting.  Bracket one is a bit favored imo, they won't face another top seed until the championship (if I am reading it correctly). I disagree and feel maybe Ando is a better 3 seed, but really it is all conjecture.  So many of these teams are revamped and we don't have enough history on them yet.  This weekend will definitely help us see who each team is.

I wasn't referring to which bracket is favored, but strength top to bottom. And Andro isn't (or likely shouldn't be) the #3 in Bracket 1, but the #4 seed. And for them to be the better 3 seed would have to make them better than TSN, Pulp and Red and I just don't think that will prove out to be the case. No disrespect to Andro and the strength of their team as they very well could be a stronger team this year.  Like you said, it's just conjecture right now. I get the sense though that some posters on here (and I'm not directing this at you) who are connected with D2 and D3 teams somewhat underestimate the quality of the lower end D1 teams, perhaps feeling that they are on par with them when that gap is actually a bit wider at this point than they may think IMO. I'm speaking in general terms. I know there will likely be an exception or two that this season will reveal and PLD may give us an early glimpse of.

Didn't TSN lose to LH DII team Sting West at Summer Splash?

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Re: 04 Plano Labor Day Tournament 2015

Post by SD69 on Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:24 pm

Don't sleep on TSC either. They were a fairly strong team last year. IMO, FCD Elite is the only clear cut seed in bracket 2. The rest could prove to be very similar in ability. I for sure wouldn't want to be in that bracket.
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Re: 04 Plano Labor Day Tournament 2015

Post by KnKsDad on Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:28 pm

Sweet_feet99 wrote:I'm thinking TSN gets second in bracket.  And not so sure bout Super Sting over DT Red either.

I want to believe otherwise, but think they got TSN right. Yeah, not so sure about Super over Red either, just going by their likely order of seeding which as we know is based on past results which are not necessarily a predictor of future results especially with all the recent changes in the market..  lol

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Re: 04 Plano Labor Day Tournament 2015

Post by KnKsDad on Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:37 pm

SickofSilliness wrote:
KnKsDad wrote:
dreadpirateroberts wrote:
KnKsDad wrote:In order of strength: Bracket 2, 1, then 3. No, not because we are in 2, but because in my opinion TSN is best #3 seed and Gutierrez is the best #4, and frankly because FCD Elite is probably the #1. That's if teams play straight up. If ringers then that could go out the window.

The draw is interesting.  Bracket one is a bit favored imo, they won't face another top seed until the championship (if I am reading it correctly). I disagree and feel maybe Ando is a better 3 seed, but really it is all conjecture.  So many of these teams are revamped and we don't have enough history on them yet.  This weekend will definitely help us see who each team is.

I wasn't referring to which bracket is favored, but strength top to bottom. And Andro isn't (or likely shouldn't be) the #3 in Bracket 1, but the #4 seed. And for them to be the better 3 seed would have to make them better than TSN, Pulp and Red and I just don't think that will prove out to be the case. No disrespect to Andro and the strength of their team as they very well could be a stronger team this year.  Like you said, it's just conjecture right now. I get the sense though that some posters on here (and I'm not directing this at you) who are connected with D2 and D3 teams somewhat underestimate the quality of the lower end D1 teams, perhaps feeling that they are on par with them when that gap is actually a bit wider at this point than they may think IMO. I'm speaking in general terms. I know there will likely be an exception or two that this season will reveal and PLD may give us an early glimpse of.

Didn't TSN lose to LH DII team Sting West at Summer Splash?

Yup, 4-3 in the final and I hope any "lower" level team brings that same thought with them when they come to play TSN. Btw, is Sting West your team? Probably not. Or are you one of those rather not say kind of people?

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Re: 04 Plano Labor Day Tournament 2015

Post by SickofStupidity on Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:49 pm

Nope - good team, no connection.

Same Sting team tied Sting North Angell last weekend, right?

Sure doesn't look like the gap is too wide to me

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Re: 04 Plano Labor Day Tournament 2015

Post by Cleansheets on Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:17 pm

Looks like one of those rather not say kind.

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Re: 04 Plano Labor Day Tournament 2015

Post by Sweet_feet99 on Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:31 pm

Cleansheets wrote:Looks like one of those rather not say kind.

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Re: 04 Plano Labor Day Tournament 2015

Post by KnKsDad on Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:38 am

SickofSilliness wrote:Nope - good team, no connection.

Same Sting team tied Sting North Angell last weekend, right?

Sure doesn't look like the gap is too wide to me


Well it's after midnight and I thought I'd check in to see if you maybe had it in you to reveal what team you're with and as I suspected, no such revelation. You want to stay in the dark - that's cool. Your point is what - with regard to West tying Angell - as it relates to TSN? If you're going to use that to make your case, please point out the combined score of the last two games between TSN and Angell and the score of the previous game between TSN and West just to offer some balance. I never said the gap was "too wide" just wider than someone such as yourself may want to believe. I also said I was making a general statement and there will be exceptions. Aren't you the one who keeps harping on the point that some teams didn't "earn" their D1 bye for this season? So is your team more deserving? Because when you make that claim you are indirectly referencing my DDs team and trust me they earn everything they get. Oh, you never did respond to my question in the other thread as to what reward your team earned that they did not get. I suspect that they didn't earn one they didn't get. But getting back to PLD, will your team be competing in Gold?

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Re: 04 Plano Labor Day Tournament 2015

Post by soccerjack on Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:54 am

KnKsDad wrote:
SickofSilliness wrote:Nope - good team, no connection.

Same Sting team tied Sting North Angell last weekend, right?

Sure doesn't look like the gap is too wide to me


Well it's after midnight and I thought I'd check in to see if you maybe had it in you to reveal what team you're with and as I suspected, no such revelation. You want to stay in the dark - that's cool. Your point is what - with regard to West tying Angell - as it relates to TSN? If you're going to use that to make your case, please point out the combined score of the last two games between TSN and Angell and the score of the previous game between TSN and West just to offer some balance. I never said the gap was "too wide" just wider than someone such as yourself may want to believe. I also said I was making a general statement and there will be exceptions. Aren't you the one who keeps harping on the point that some teams didn't "earn" their D1 bye for this season? So is your team more deserving? Because when you make that claim you are indirectly referencing my DDs team and trust me they earn everything they get. Oh, you never did respond to my question in the other thread as to what reward your team earned that they did not get. I suspect that they didn't earn one they didn't get. But getting back to PLD, will your team be competing in Gold?


Hey Silly,

I think what KNK is saying is your dd might be in D-1, but D-1 in Frisco Soccer is not the same as LH. We will assume the Hippie Chicks are a fine team that fought hard for their FSA D-1 spot but it's just not the same.
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Re: 04 Plano Labor Day Tournament 2015

Post by SickofStupidity on Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:05 am

My reference to teams who "earn" and "didn't earn" a spot - is simply that DI has teams that, mathematically, had ZERO chance of getting into DI, but were awarded it anyway.  (DII and DIII as well - across all age groups)   I don't believe that applied to TSN.  Dude, don't take it so personally - but I know that is par for the course.

You expend tons of energy trying to convince everyone that there is somehow this "gap" between DI #15 and D2 #1 that is "wider" than some may think.  If the split had been made at #12 instead at #15, would you have been here saying that there is a "gap" wider than you would think between DI #12 and TSN? or said "gap" between TSN, Solar, and Hilton / Gut and all other DII teams?  (because that is where you have established said gap).  I am guessing not.  My point - the split was largely arbitrary - it had to happen somewhere and that was at #15 - and there is little or NO gap between the bottom of DI and the top of DII.

At this point, TSN likely sits near the bottom of DI.  Will they finish there?  Who knows?  That's why they play.

But to make a statement that this arbitrary cutoff somehow establishes a "gap" wider than some would think between these groups is ludicrous.  Had the season played out, it is highly likely TSN would be playing in DII.

So - as you expend all you energy expousing that there is a gap wider than most would think between DI and DII - I remind you that TSN lost to Sting West (a team below said gap) 4-3 at Summer Splash.  IMO, Sting West is a better team - but hey, I'm sure you have a different opinion, but they were that day.

Sting Angell tied Sting West last weekend in an competitive game.  Yes, TSN beat Angell in Summer Splash 3-1.  Your account will probably differ from mine, but IMO, the game was winnable by either team until the last 10 minutes.

The last time TSN beat a DI team looks to be Feb 14 - more than 6 months ago.  That same day, TSN beat Sting West 3-0.

Now, if we want to ignore results on the field, that's fine too.  We can all sit here and agree that there is some arbitrary gap, wider than some would think, between the bottom of DI and the top of DII.  Any loss by a DI team to a DII team is "the exception."  If that massages your ego, that works fine for me too.

My daughter's team does not play DI, and we are fine with that.  They shouldn't be - but they are learning and developing.  I guess time will tell if TSN should be playing in DI.

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Re: 04 Plano Labor Day Tournament 2015

Post by SickofStupidity on Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:37 am

KnKsDad wrote:
SickofSilliness wrote:Nope - good team, no connection.

Same Sting team tied Sting North Angell last weekend, right?

Sure doesn't look like the gap is too wide to me


Well it's after midnight and I thought I'd check in to see if you maybe had it in you to reveal what team you're with and as I suspected, no such revelation. You want to stay in the dark - that's cool. Your point is what - with regard to West tying Angell - as it relates to TSN? If you're going to use that to make your case, please point out the combined score of the last two games between TSN and Angell and the score of the previous game between TSN and West just to offer some balance. I never said the gap was "too wide" just wider than someone such as yourself may want to believe. I also said I was making a general statement and there will be exceptions. Aren't you the one who keeps harping on the point that some teams didn't "earn" their D1 bye for this season? So is your team more deserving? Because when you make that claim you are indirectly referencing my DDs team and trust me they earn everything they get. Oh, you never did respond to my question in the other thread as to what reward your team earned that they did not get. I suspect that they didn't earn one they didn't get. But getting back to PLD, will your team be competing in Gold?

and I guess therein lies the difference between me and you

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Re: 04 Plano Labor Day Tournament 2015

Post by Cleansheets on Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:51 am

I think I just stepped in that gap...yuck!

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Re: 04 Plano Labor Day Tournament 2015

Post by Son_ofa_Pitch on Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:56 am

Double that yuk! Did I say yuk? I meant Yac.. Double shots of it..
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Re: 04 Plano Labor Day Tournament 2015

Post by soccerjack on Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:26 pm

Mind the gap!
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Re: 04 Plano Labor Day Tournament 2015

Post by Guest on Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:00 pm

Try Old Navy...

And it's too hot for yac SOAP...
Rum and your favorite juice goes great at PLD...plenty of ice "stay thirsty my friends"

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Re: 04 Plano Labor Day Tournament 2015

Post by Son_ofa_Pitch on Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:28 pm

WhySeauxSerious wrote:Try Old Navy...

And it's too hot for yac SOAP...
Rum and your favorite juice goes great at PLD...plenty of ice "stay thirsty my friends"

The yac stay at the house (private stash) where its cold. I will take your PLD drink advice.
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Re: 04 Plano Labor Day Tournament 2015

Post by Soccapeeps on Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:09 pm

This is a weak PLD Gold bracket...FCD Elite and DFeeter Black are playing for 3rd place.....I said it and you all privately agree.

The 2 best teams are not here.. DTS and LP Elite. DTS as always can't be found for PLD and LP Elite thinking they are better than they are.
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Re: 04 Plano Labor Day Tournament 2015

Post by Guest on Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:51 pm

Well Elite came up short last year in PLD...DTS was in PLD year before last...so they aren't "always" where they can't be found. The Gold bracket isn't weak because the defending champs (Scott) are back. It's the best Labor Day tournament around so enjoy it or go to Arlington with your "weak" @$& proclamation.

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Re: 04 Plano Labor Day Tournament 2015

Post by KnKsDad on Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:04 pm

SickofSilliness wrote:My reference to teams who "earn" and "didn't earn" a spot - is simply that DI has teams that, mathematically, had ZERO chance of getting into DI, but were awarded it anyway.  (DII and DIII as well - across all age groups)   I don't believe that applied to TSN.  Dude, don't take it so personally - but I know that is par for the course. My bad for seemingly taking it so personal, but why the repeated digs about "earn" and "didn't earn"? To me those comments express every bit the "taking it personal" as my reaction to them does. Again, in my initial post I even said that I was making a general statement and there will be exceptions and yet you threw a jab.

You expend tons of energy trying to convince everyone that there is somehow this "gap" between DI #15 and D2 #1 that is "wider" than some may think.  If the split had been made at #12 instead at #15, would you have been here saying that there is a "gap" wider than you would think between DI #12 and TSN? or said "gap" between TSN, Solar, and Hilton / Gut and all other DII teams?  (because that is where you have established said gap).  I am guessing not.  My point - the split was largely arbitrary - it had to happen somewhere and that was at #15 - and there is little or NO gap between the bottom of DI and the top of DII. I am not expending tons of energy trying to convince everyone of anything, but I am expending tons of energy responding to you which I am realizing is a mistake. Again, I made a general statement. I never specifically stated D1 #15 vs a D2 #1, you are adding those specifics. However, I personally do believe there was a fairly distinguishable break at around the #15 spot last season so I don't think it was quite so arbitrary. TSN was fully expecting to be D2 and was fine with that because that is what we earned based on our win/loss at the time. And yes, had the cutoff been made at #12 I would have said there was a gap with the rest of the D2 teams based on the rosters at that time, so you guessed wrong.

At this point, TSN likely sits near the bottom of DI.  Will they finish there?  Who knows?  That's why they play. When you say bottom, do you mean bottom of a top 10 or bottom of a top 15? Regardless, like you said, that is why they play - new season, new rosters, etc.

But to make a statement that this arbitrary cutoff somehow establishes a "gap" wider than some would think between these groups is ludicrous.  Had the season played out, it is highly likely TSN would be playing in DII. It's not the "arbitrary cut off" that establishes the gap, but play on the field last season. Had the season played out TSN likely would have finished #10 or #11 and if #10 would have potentially lost tie-breaker situation to Chacon and therefore be playing D2.

So - as you expend all you energy expousing that there is a gap wider than most would think between DI and DII - I remind you that TSN lost to Sting West (a team below said gap) 4-3 at Summer Splash.  IMO, Sting West is a better team - but hey, I'm sure you have a different opinion, but they were that day. I don't need a reminder, I was there. Sting West was better on that day and is likely a better team now, (surprised to hear me say that?) But they weren't last season and that was proven on the field. The "arbitrary" cut off for this upcoming season was made based on last season's play/rosters, right? I still stand by what I said and the phrasing of what I said including that there will prove to be exceptions - and that's because there have been changes with teams! Any team, including yours, that wants to prove to be one of those exceptions, could have started that process by playing in PLD Gold, like Andromeda, which is where this whole debate got started. TSN is there, and even if we get spanked in all our games, we are there.

Sting Angell tied Sting West last weekend in an competitive game.  Yes, TSN beat Angell in Summer Splash 3-1.  Your account will probably differ from mine, but IMO, the game was winnable by either team until the last 10 minutes. No problem with that statement.

The last time TSN beat a DI team looks to be Feb 14 - more than 6 months ago.  That same day, TSN beat Sting West 3-0. Not sure the point you're making but okay.

Now, if we want to ignore results on the field, that's fine too.  We can all sit here and agree that there is some arbitrary gap, wider than some would think, between the bottom of DI and the top of DII.  Any loss by a DI team to a DII team is "the exception."  If that massages your ego, that works fine for me too. It's not about ego, I only go with results on the field and call it like I see it and based on last season there was a noticeable gap IMO. This season's results could tell a different story. 

My daughter's team does not play DI, and we are fine with that.  They shouldn't be - but they are learning and developing.  I guess time will tell if TSN should be playing in DI. You say you're fine with not being in D1, yet you repeatedly indirectly throw darts at the lower D1 teams through criticizing the LH "arbitrary" cut off, so why do you care? I guess I am just taking it too personal when you make the statement that teams didn't earn it and my DD's team just happens to be one of those teams, but at least you can say that about our team because you know who we are. I still don't know who your team is, but that's par for the course too.

Sorry to break up the light hearted afternoon banter with this Tolstoy. I promise never to do it again.

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Re: 04 Plano Labor Day Tournament 2015

Post by Soccapeeps on Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:07 pm

Elite came up short, but no doubt they were the best team last year in LH (no debating that?). "Year before last" is a weak @$$ argument for not playing for 2 years in theoretically the best local tournment. And yes, we will enjoy the attractions in the great city of Arlington this weekend where your team should probably be in.. lol And don't bring that defending DTS Scott "are back" $hit...cause that dont work here.
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Re: 04 Plano Labor Day Tournament 2015

Post by Cleansheets on Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:38 pm

KnKsDad wrote:
SickofSilliness wrote:My reference to teams who "earn" and "didn't earn" a spot - is simply that DI has teams that, mathematically, had ZERO chance of getting into DI, but were awarded it anyway.  (DII and DIII as well - across all age groups)   I don't believe that applied to TSN.  Dude, don't take it so personally - but I know that is par for the course. My bad for seemingly taking it so personal, but why the repeated digs about "earn" and "didn't earn"? To me those comments express every bit the "taking it personal" as my reaction to them does. Again, in my initial post I even said that I was making a general statement and there will be exceptions and yet you threw a jab.

You expend tons of energy trying to convince everyone that there is somehow this "gap" between DI #15 and D2 #1 that is "wider" than some may think.  If the split had been made at #12 instead at #15, would you have been here saying that there is a "gap" wider than you would think between DI #12 and TSN? or said "gap" between TSN, Solar, and Hilton / Gut and all other DII teams?  (because that is where you have established said gap).  I am guessing not.  My point - the split was largely arbitrary - it had to happen somewhere and that was at #15 - and there is little or NO gap between the bottom of DI and the top of DII. I am not expending tons of energy trying to convince everyone of anything, but I am expending tons of energy responding to you which I am realizing is a mistake. Again, I made a general statement. I never specifically stated D1 #15 vs a D2 #1, you are adding those specifics. However, I personally do believe there was a fairly distinguishable break at around the #15 spot last season so I don't think it was quite so arbitrary. TSN was fully expecting to be D2 and was fine with that because that is what we earned based on our win/loss at the time. And yes, had the cutoff been made at #12 I would have said there was a gap with the rest of the D2 teams based on the rosters at that time, so you guessed wrong.

At this point, TSN likely sits near the bottom of DI.  Will they finish there?  Who knows?  That's why they play. When you say bottom, do you mean bottom of a top 10 or bottom of a top 15? Regardless, like you said, that is why they play - new season, new rosters, etc.

But to make a statement that this arbitrary cutoff somehow establishes a "gap" wider than some would think between these groups is ludicrous.  Had the season played out, it is highly likely TSN would be playing in DII. It's not the "arbitrary cut off" that establishes the gap, but play on the field last season. Had the season played out TSN likely would have finished #10 or #11 and if #10 would have potentially lost tie-breaker situation to Chacon and therefore be playing D2.

So - as you expend all you energy expousing that there is a gap wider than most would think between DI and DII - I remind you that TSN lost to Sting West (a team below said gap) 4-3 at Summer Splash.  IMO, Sting West is a better team - but hey, I'm sure you have a different opinion, but they were that day. I don't need a reminder, I was there. Sting West was better on that day and is likely a better team now, (surprised to hear me say that?) But they weren't last season and that was proven on the field. The "arbitrary" cut off for this upcoming season was made based on last season's play/rosters, right? I still stand by what I said and the phrasing of what I said including that there will prove to be exceptions - and that's because there have been changes with teams! Any team, including yours, that wants to prove to be one of those exceptions, could have started that process by playing in PLD Gold, like Andromeda, which is where this whole debate got started. TSN is there, and even if we get spanked in all our games, we are there.

Sting Angell tied Sting West last weekend in an competitive game.  Yes, TSN beat Angell in Summer Splash 3-1.  Your account will probably differ from mine, but IMO, the game was winnable by either team until the last 10 minutes. No problem with that statement.

The last time TSN beat a DI team looks to be Feb 14 - more than 6 months ago.  That same day, TSN beat Sting West 3-0. Not sure the point you're making but okay.

Now, if we want to ignore results on the field, that's fine too.  We can all sit here and agree that there is some arbitrary gap, wider than some would think, between the bottom of DI and the top of DII.  Any loss by a DI team to a DII team is "the exception."  If that massages your ego, that works fine for me too. It's not about ego, I only go with results on the field and call it like I see it and based on last season there was a noticeable gap IMO. This season's results could tell a different story. 

My daughter's team does not play DI, and we are fine with that.  They shouldn't be - but they are learning and developing.  I guess time will tell if TSN should be playing in DI. You say you're fine with not being in D1, yet you repeatedly indirectly throw darts at the lower D1 teams through criticizing the LH "arbitrary" cut off, so why do you care? I guess I am just taking it too personal when you make the statement that teams didn't earn it and my DD's team just happens to be one of those teams, but at least you can say that about our team because you know who we are. I still don't know who your team is, but that's par for the course too.

Sorry to break up the light hearted afternoon banter with this Tolstoy. I promise never to do it again.
"And there seems to be no sign of intelligent life anywhere". - Buzz Lightyear
Man that was a great movie...um, wait. Oh Dang Gina! He said Tolstoy not Toystory

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Re: 04 Plano Labor Day Tournament 2015

Post by SickofStupidity on Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:10 pm

KnKsDad wrote:
SickofSilliness wrote:My reference to teams who "earn" and "didn't earn" a spot - is simply that DI has teams that, mathematically, had ZERO chance of getting into DI, but were awarded it anyway.  (DII and DIII as well - across all age groups)   I don't believe that applied to TSN.  Dude, don't take it so personally - but I know that is par for the course. My bad for seemingly taking it so personal, but why the repeated digs about "earn" and "didn't earn"? To me those comments express every bit the "taking it personal" as my reaction to them does. Again, in my initial post I even said that I was making a general statement and there will be exceptions and yet you threw a jab.

You expend tons of energy trying to convince everyone that there is somehow this "gap" between DI #15 and D2 #1 that is "wider" than some may think.  If the split had been made at #12 instead at #15, would you have been here saying that there is a "gap" wider than you would think between DI #12 and TSN? or said "gap" between TSN, Solar, and Hilton / Gut and all other DII teams?  (because that is where you have established said gap).  I am guessing not.  My point - the split was largely arbitrary - it had to happen somewhere and that was at #15 - and there is little or NO gap between the bottom of DI and the top of DII. I am not expending tons of energy trying to convince everyone of anything, but I am expending tons of energy responding to you which I am realizing is a mistake. Again, I made a general statement. I never specifically stated D1 #15 vs a D2 #1, you are adding those specifics. However, I personally do believe there was a fairly distinguishable break at around the #15 spot last season so I don't think it was quite so arbitrary. TSN was fully expecting to be D2 and was fine with that because that is what we earned based on our win/loss at the time. And yes, had the cutoff been made at #12 I would have said there was a gap with the rest of the D2 teams based on the rosters at that time, so you guessed wrong.

At this point, TSN likely sits near the bottom of DI.  Will they finish there?  Who knows?  That's why they play. When you say bottom, do you mean bottom of a top 10 or bottom of a top 15? Regardless, like you said, that is why they play - new season, new rosters, etc.

But to make a statement that this arbitrary cutoff somehow establishes a "gap" wider than some would think between these groups is ludicrous.  Had the season played out, it is highly likely TSN would be playing in DII. It's not the "arbitrary cut off" that establishes the gap, but play on the field last season. Had the season played out TSN likely would have finished #10 or #11 and if #10 would have potentially lost tie-breaker situation to Chacon and therefore be playing D2.

So - as you expend all you energy expousing that there is a gap wider than most would think between DI and DII - I remind you that TSN lost to Sting West (a team below said gap) 4-3 at Summer Splash.  IMO, Sting West is a better team - but hey, I'm sure you have a different opinion, but they were that day. I don't need a reminder, I was there. Sting West was better on that day and is likely a better team now, (surprised to hear me say that?) But they weren't last season and that was proven on the field. The "arbitrary" cut off for this upcoming season was made based on last season's play/rosters, right? I still stand by what I said and the phrasing of what I said including that there will prove to be exceptions - and that's because there have been changes with teams! Any team, including yours, that wants to prove to be one of those exceptions, could have started that process by playing in PLD Gold, like Andromeda, which is where this whole debate got started. TSN is there, and even if we get spanked in all our games, we are there.

Sting Angell tied Sting West last weekend in an competitive game.  Yes, TSN beat Angell in Summer Splash 3-1.  Your account will probably differ from mine, but IMO, the game was winnable by either team until the last 10 minutes. No problem with that statement.

The last time TSN beat a DI team looks to be Feb 14 - more than 6 months ago.  That same day, TSN beat Sting West 3-0. Not sure the point you're making but okay.

Now, if we want to ignore results on the field, that's fine too.  We can all sit here and agree that there is some arbitrary gap, wider than some would think, between the bottom of DI and the top of DII.  Any loss by a DI team to a DII team is "the exception."  If that massages your ego, that works fine for me too. It's not about ego, I only go with results on the field and call it like I see it and based on last season there was a noticeable gap IMO. This season's results could tell a different story. 

My daughter's team does not play DI, and we are fine with that.  They shouldn't be - but they are learning and developing.  I guess time will tell if TSN should be playing in DI. You say you're fine with not being in D1, yet you repeatedly indirectly throw darts at the lower D1 teams through criticizing the LH "arbitrary" cut off, so why do you care? I guess I am just taking it too personal when you make the statement that teams didn't earn it and my DD's team just happens to be one of those teams, but at least you can say that about our team because you know who we are. I still don't know who your team is, but that's par for the course too.

Sorry to break up the light hearted afternoon banter with this Tolstoy. I promise never to do it again.

Sorry, I thought the discussion was about your perception of a gap "wider than some expect" between D1 teams (including yours) and DII teams - THIS SEASON.  At this point, I don't think anyone really cares about your results, play on the field, or some gap last season - real or perceived.

"Like you said, it's just conjecture right now. I get the sense though that some posters on here (and I'm not directing this at you) who are connected with D2 and D3 teams somewhat underestimate the quality of the lower end D1 teams, perhaps feeling that they are on par with them when that gap is actually a bit wider at this point than they may think IMO."

If you concede that Sting West may be better than TSN this season, then what is the point of trying to distinguish TSN and your supposed "gap" between DI and DII?  A gap that, admittedly, may not exist?!?  Sorry, but your argument makes no sense -

a TSN team that, in your opinion, is not the bottom of DI

A Sting West team who tied Angell and has not established themselves as the best of DII

Sting West was better on that day and is likely a better team now

Logic like that kinda takes any wind out of an argument that any gap exists between the bottom of DI and the top of DII, let alone a gap "wider than some may think"

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Re: 04 Plano Labor Day Tournament 2015

Post by Guest on Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:13 pm

Y
Soccapeeps wrote:Elite came up short, but no doubt they were the best team last year in LH (no debating that?). "Year before last" is a weak @$$ argument for not playing for 2 years in theoretically the best local tournment. And yes, we will enjoy the attractions in the great city of Arlington this weekend where your team should probably be in.. lol  And don't bring that defending DTS Scott "are back" $hit...cause that dont work here.
Well what's is your team affiliation? So I can further expound!!no matter, Your proclamation is still weak as phuck and we all know that Elite is and was número uno and DTS is in a strong second. You can try and discredit my POV and Scott's accomplishment but the fact the you will be peeping the scene in Arlington this weekend lets me know that you really aren't worth this weak @$& debate... Don't let me find out from one of the more active board members that you're some....never mind I've said too much. Later Chauncey...

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