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Kickball

Post by Andwhynot? on 08/09/15, 11:33 am

Being new to this forum and seeing the reference to Kickball being used as a negative, can someone clarify why and what the details of this kickball scheme are?

The ball can only be passed from defender to mid, mid to forward?
Defender to forward = kickball?
Is there a set height and distance a pass can go?
Is it just referring to control over the pass and actually caring where it goes?

It also seems that after teams win or are winning this reference is used as a why they won.

If they were using a lessor style of play on a superior team, shouldn't they lose?



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Re: Kickball

Post by Soccer Junkie on 08/09/15, 12:04 pm

It is from the same parents that can not handle the fact that on that day their DD team lost, you will also hear

It was because they had the wind
or
The sun was in our goalies eyes
or
they were just so physical
or
the ref only called fouls one way
or
the used guest players

you will rarely ever hear, we lost because the other team was better, or better that day,
You have to remember that 2 things, your girls are young an they will not be consistent from game to game
and no matter what you do you will have haters, this board has become a place to bitch, not get information or help, but to bitch and dog pile on posters for speaking their minds

GOOD LUCK TO YOU, and most importantly enjoy the ride and remember it is not yours, IT IS HERS.............
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Re: Kickball

Post by SickofStupidity on 08/09/15, 12:07 pm

New to this forum?  I call bs, but we can play it that way.

Yes, all teams play the long ball at times, but if you see a team whose defenders regularly boot the ball up the field, without an attempt to actually play the ball to a forward (kicking it up the field with the hopes that a forward can just run it down to score) - you have seen kickball.

Also known as "bootball".

Generally pretty easy to identify:

1 - defenders who are not under pressure regularly just run up and kick the ball - hard - without trying to control the ball, switch, find another open player on their team to try and maintain possession, etc.

2 - teams who never play back to the goalie in order to maintain possession

3 - teams with parents who regularly yell "kick it" or "clear it" even when their player is not under pressure, then cheer if the ball goes really far - regardless of whether their team maintains possession.

Kickball wins often at younger age groups, because kickball requires 1 or 2 fast forwards, and defenders who can kick hard.  Possession soccer generally requires all the girls to make and receive good passes, have situational awareness, and is much less forgiving on mistakes.

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Re: Kickball

Post by Andwhynot? on 08/09/15, 12:11 pm

[quote="SickofSilliness"]New to this forum?  I call bs, but we can play it that way.

OK, you win, relatively new?
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Re: Kickball

Post by go99 on 08/09/15, 12:31 pm

well if you don't know what kickball is then your team probably plays it.

It is a very valid tactic and will help you win games. It is horrible for actually teaching kids the game.
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Re: Kickball

Post by RightWingDad on 08/09/15, 12:50 pm

SickofSilliness wrote:

3 - teams with parents who regularly yell "kick it" or "clear it" even when their player is not under pressure, then cheer if the ball goes really far - regardless of whether their team maintains possession.

Or my *favorite* parent cheer......"Send it!"

;-)
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Re: Kickball

Post by HotShot36 on 08/09/15, 01:22 pm

I've also heard some teams that have been accused of playing kickball or bootball defend themselves by claiming that they play a "direct" style of soccer. What is the difference between these two or are they considered one and the same?
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Re: Kickball

Post by Sho'Nuff on 08/09/15, 01:26 pm

TwinsDad7799 wrote:
actually caring where it goes?

My vote

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Re: Kickball

Post by SD69 on 08/09/15, 01:31 pm

HotShot36 wrote:I've also heard some teams that have been accused of playing kickball or bootball defend themselves by claiming that they play a "direct" style of soccer. What is the difference between these two or are they considered one and the same?

Direct is just a nice way of saying "kickball". Like saying a fat person is "big-boned".
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Re: Kickball

Post by SD69 on 08/09/15, 01:32 pm

Before anyone gets offended, I'm as "big-boned" as they come.
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Re: Kickball

Post by VultureVic on 08/09/15, 01:49 pm

Kickball has actually become a lot more refined.  Now you look for the biggest kids you can find, that not only can kick it a long way but knock the hell out of every player on the opposing team also.  Kind of a soccer/rugby mix if you will.  These teams are usually coached by a rec dad or a rec dad that works for a club.  They can usually get the less proficient possession style teams to join in the pinball game because the ball is just willy nilly kicked the minute it's touched.  The goal is to get the big pushy kids in very good shape so they can constantly run after the ball with their elbows out, knocking down unsuspecting opponents as they sprint up and down the field.  If one of your players has them beat and is headed toward the goal they will blatantly shove your player down and take the yellow or red, which usually isn't thrown anyway, As witnessed this weekend with one of fcd centrals opponents in the silver bracket.  The silver bracket was about half and half kickball vs soccer.  And yes kickball can and does win at this age.  And no I am not affiliated with fcd, was watching that game and my dd's at the same time.

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Re: Kickball

Post by db10 on 08/09/15, 02:10 pm

HotShot36 wrote:I've also heard some teams that have been accused of playing kickball or bootball defend themselves by claiming that they play a "direct" style of soccer. What is the difference between these two or are they considered one and the same?

There is no difference, either the coach teaches to play out of the back or not. When a 12 year old can hit a player on a 40 yard pass then we can all discuss the "direct" style of play. Until then it is what it is, the defense is kicking out of their zone because the coach either doesn't trust them or hasn't taught them to control the ball in their own end. If the side effect is a forward can run under these kicks and creates a scoring chance everyone is happy.

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Re: Kickball

Post by Looking04 on 08/09/15, 02:32 pm

VultureVic wrote:Kickball has actually become a lot more refined.  Now you look for the biggest kids you can find, that not only can kick it a long way but knock the hell out of every player on the opposing team also.  Kind of a soccer/rugby mix if you will.  These teams are usually coached by a rec dad or a rec dad that works for a club.  They can usually get the less proficient possession style teams to join in the pinball game because the ball is just willy nilly kicked the minute it's touched.  The goal is to get the big pushy kids in very good shape so they can constantly run after the ball with their elbows out, knocking down unsuspecting opponents as they sprint up and down the field.  If one of your players has them beat and is headed toward the goal they will blatantly shove your player down and take the yellow or red, which usually isn't thrown anyway, As witnessed this weekend with one of fcd centrals opponents in the silver bracket.  The silver bracket was about half and half kickball vs soccer.  And yes kickball can and does win at this age.  And no I am not affiliated with fcd, was watching that game and my dd's at the same time.

You would think they would set up a scrimmage against FCD White so they could get used to pushy kickball

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Re: Kickball

Post by jae on 08/09/15, 02:33 pm

First of all, most parents do not understand the game and are almost always biased when watching their DD's games.

There are many shades of "kickball" (or sometimes referred to as "dump and chase"), from toe-kicking wildly with no clear intent on direction or passing to controlled long pass to an open, on-side teammate.

In general, all shades "kickball" at younger ages are looked down upon by soccer pundits because they do not encourage development of good soccer skills and overly focus on "winning" NOW.

At older ages, and at college/pro levels, when "winning" is the primary (and often only) objective, "long balls" and "dump and chase" are valid and powerful strategies that teams use to win.


Last edited by jae on 08/09/15, 02:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Kickball

Post by MrRogers on 08/09/15, 02:48 pm

Unless it's your DD team playing "kickball' why complain? It's a term for the real "elite" soccer families. Usually this is to make a parent feel better about a loss because well, even if they are losing, they are at least learning to play "correctly" right?

I have also seen coaches so determined to play "possession" style soccer that the kids are almost robots unable to adapt to different transitions.

How about teaching kids to read what the other team is giving you and respond with the appropriate play whatever that is. That is what I want for me DD.

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Re: Kickball

Post by Guest on 08/09/15, 03:23 pm

The conspiracy theory is that Canadians have invaded North Texas and are pushing their hockey tactics on us forcing long passes into corner. If the forwards gets their first they maintain possession, if the defender does, the offense press's the defender creating high pressure and an eventual turnover in the defensive zone. EH?

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Re: Kickball

Post by doublevision on 08/09/15, 04:04 pm

Kickball: sally is 9 years old. A Defender. Angie is bigger faster Foward 9 years old. They play for the same team. Their coach, let's call him chuck, is known to be a great coach because he's won 50 games in a row. Although he didn't even play soccer himself. He recruits better talent every year because he wins and that's all most parents care about. In one game Sally, the defender, runs up on the ball. Under no pressure and without any first touch she boots it down the field as far as she can. Sally dad yells send it as she does this. Sally's mom yells "good kick" cause it went really high. It bounces 5 times till Angie, the Foward who is fast as hell, runs to it. She out runs 5 defender and hits a laser to the back post. Chucks team wins and they are now ranked 1st in FBR. Fast Foward 4 years. Sally's and Angie are now 13. Angie, the fast Foward, now plays defense. She cant outrun girls anymore and doesn't have the skills to beat defenders. Sally plays goalie cause all she can do well is boot it. She lacks a good first touch and field awareness. She has no idea what it means to switch the field. Chuck loses his team cause he is not winning any longer and the smaller, smarter soccer teams are now ranked 1st in FBR.

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Re: Kickball

Post by Guest on 08/09/15, 04:19 pm


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Re: Kickball

Post by the7wolf on 08/09/15, 04:36 pm

Not. Sure. If. Serious. but.....

I always define "kickball" as any touch that leaves the players control/possession without forethought/direction/target.

It's possible to play "kickball" over 5 yards if there is no thought about where the ball is going.

I think there is some confusion over "kickball" and its "Hail Mary" properties where in reality, any touch without thought, plan or consideration to its destination is "kickball".

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Re: Kickball

Post by Guest on 08/09/15, 07:23 pm

the7wolf wrote: cheers cheers Not. Sure. If. Serious. but.....

I always define "kickball" as any touch that leaves the players control/possession without forethought/direction/target.

It's possible to play "kickball" over 5 yards if there is no thought about where the ball is going.

I think there is some confusion over "kickball" and its "Hail Mary" properties where in reality, any touch without thought, plan or consideration to its destination is "kickball".
Close the thread....nuff said. cheers cheers

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Re: Kickball

Post by soccerjack on 08/09/15, 08:35 pm

WhySeauxSerious wrote:
the7wolf wrote: cheers cheers Not. Sure. If. Serious. but.....

I always define "kickball" as any touch that leaves the players control/possession without forethought/direction/target.

It's possible to play "kickball" over 5 yards if there is no thought about where the ball is going.

I think there is some confusion over "kickball" and its "Hail Mary" properties where in reality, any touch without thought, plan or consideration to its destination is "kickball".
Close the thread....nuff said. cheers cheers

lets talk dodgeball now. Very underrated sport.
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Re: Kickball

Post by RightWingDad on 08/09/15, 09:54 pm

I remember dodgeball. Back when I was in 9th grade they made us play the seniors during PE. Except we called it Cowboys and Indians. We Indians (9th graders) had to remove our shirts so when the gorilla 12th graders threw that little hard red ball it made welts on our skin.

Oh geez, that was fun. Thanks for the memories ;-)
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Re: Kickball

Post by 2girls on 08/09/15, 10:48 pm

Kickball: sally is 9 years old. A Defender. Angie is bigger faster Foward 9 years old. They play for the same team. Their coach, let's call him chuck, is known to be a great coach because he's won 50 games in a row. Although he didn't even play soccer himself. He recruits better talent every year because he wins and that's all most parents care about. In one game Sally, the defender, runs up on the ball. Under no pressure and without any first touch she boots it down the field as far as she can. Sally dad yells send it as she does this. Sally's mom yells "good kick" cause it went really high. It bounces 5 times till Angie, the Foward who is fast as hell, runs to it. She out runs 5 defender and hits a laser to the back post. Chucks team wins and they are now ranked 1st in FBR. Fast Foward 4 years. Sally's and Angie are now 13. Angie, the fast Foward, now plays defense. She cant outrun girls anymore and doesn't have the skills to beat defenders. Sally plays goalie cause all she can do well is boot it. She lacks a good first touch and field awareness. She has no idea what it means to switch the field. Chuck loses his team cause he is not winning any longer and the smaller, smarter soccer teams are now ranked 1st in FBR.

This is greatness right here and hits the nail on the head ! Except you forgot #1 in FBR Coach ignores naturally developing athletes in favor of giant kids who are peaking at age 11 and sits them on bench in quest for wins. Then 18 months later team is 1/2 of what it once was and naturally developing girls find a new home with a great coach who teaches soccer the right way and makes it fun for girls again . Wins come naturally and aren't forced by "sending it" 60 yards down the field ! Thanks for a great and VERY realistic post which conpletely sums up the state of affairs in north texas soccer today with the exception of a few good quality coaches .

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Re: Kickball

Post by planogirl on 08/09/15, 11:51 pm

doublevision wrote:Kickball: sally is 9 years old. A Defender. Angie is bigger faster Foward 9 years old. They play for the same team. Their coach, let's call him chuck, is known to be a great coach because he's won 50 games in a row. Although he didn't even play soccer himself. He recruits better talent every year because he wins and that's all most parents care about.  In one game Sally, the defender, runs up on the ball. Under no pressure and without any first touch she boots it down the field as far as she can. Sally dad yells send it as she does this. Sally's mom yells "good kick" cause it went really high. It bounces 5 times till Angie, the Foward who is fast as hell, runs to it. She out runs 5 defender and hits a laser to the back post. Chucks team wins and they are now ranked 1st in FBR. Fast Foward 4 years. Sally's and Angie are now 13.  Angie, the fast Foward, now plays defense. She cant outrun girls anymore and doesn't have the skills to beat defenders. Sally plays goalie cause all she can do well is boot it. She lacks a good first touch and field awareness. She has no idea what it means to switch the field. Chuck loses his team cause he is not winning any longer and the smaller, smarter soccer teams are now ranked 1st in FBR.  

Don't agree: Coach Chuck is the honor academy coach for the elite club since he attracts many Sallys, Angies and won the club many trophies, he is promoted to the academy director and generate a lot of cash for the club to recruit more talents in ECNL. As about Sally and Angie, who can remember them?

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Re: Kickball

Post by Peak_Performance_Dad on 09/09/15, 06:12 am

doublevision wrote:Kickball: sally is 9 years old. A Defender. Angie is bigger faster Foward 9 years old. They play for the same team. Their coach, let's call him chuck, is known to be a great coach because he's won 50 games in a row. Although he didn't even play soccer himself. He recruits better talent every year because he wins and that's all most parents care about.  In one game Sally, the defender, runs up on the ball. Under no pressure and without any first touch she boots it down the field as far as she can. Sally dad yells send it as she does this. Sally's mom yells "good kick" cause it went really high. It bounces 5 times till Angie, the Foward who is fast as hell, runs to it. She out runs 5 defender and hits a laser to the back post. Chucks team wins and they are now ranked 1st in FBR. Fast Foward 4 years. Sally's and Angie are now 13.  Angie, the fast Foward, now plays defense. She cant outrun girls anymore and doesn't have the skills to beat defenders. Sally plays goalie cause all she can do well is boot it. She lacks a good first touch and field awareness. She has no idea what it means to switch the field. Chuck loses his team cause he is not winning any longer and the smaller, smarter soccer teams are now ranked 1st in FBR.  

Easily the best post I have read on here in a long time. I am seeing this play out before my eyes.
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