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Kickball

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Re: Kickball

Post by Peak_Performance_Dad on 09/09/15, 06:12 am

doublevision wrote:Kickball: sally is 9 years old. A Defender. Angie is bigger faster Foward 9 years old. They play for the same team. Their coach, let's call him chuck, is known to be a great coach because he's won 50 games in a row. Although he didn't even play soccer himself. He recruits better talent every year because he wins and that's all most parents care about.  In one game Sally, the defender, runs up on the ball. Under no pressure and without any first touch she boots it down the field as far as she can. Sally dad yells send it as she does this. Sally's mom yells "good kick" cause it went really high. It bounces 5 times till Angie, the Foward who is fast as hell, runs to it. She out runs 5 defender and hits a laser to the back post. Chucks team wins and they are now ranked 1st in FBR. Fast Foward 4 years. Sally's and Angie are now 13.  Angie, the fast Foward, now plays defense. She cant outrun girls anymore and doesn't have the skills to beat defenders. Sally plays goalie cause all she can do well is boot it. She lacks a good first touch and field awareness. She has no idea what it means to switch the field. Chuck loses his team cause he is not winning any longer and the smaller, smarter soccer teams are now ranked 1st in FBR.  

Easily the best post I have read on here in a long time. I am seeing this play out before my eyes.

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Re: Kickball

Post by Tiki-taka on 09/09/15, 08:12 am

My take on fast forwarding 4 years is Angie is on the bench because other girls have caught up to her physically, and Angie never learned how to handle the ball deep in the corner against defenders to generate opportunities for the rest of her team, while Sally is still playing defender but has learned to mix in long kicking to clear the ball with passes to non-pressured players. Goalie is a lot more technical position than just being able to boot the ball. And Chuck is still taking parent's money.
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Re: Kickball

Post by Crest1998 on 09/09/15, 09:11 am

Top 3 Teams in Lake Highlands Girls Classic League 04 Division 1 known for Kickball.

Ready go..........................................................
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Re: Kickball

Post by Argyle on 09/09/15, 09:25 am

Fact is that a good coach must be able to teach both styles of play... nice passing game when the opposing team drops off and be able to play a little more direct when the other team high pressures and doesn't allow space to pass. Hence, players need to able to play both styles. The only decision to be made is when to teach each skill.  US women's national team was very average in the World Cup until they went three forwards and played direct. This is just the reality of the game. Not everyone can be Barcelona... Messi's don't fall off trees

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Re: Kickball

Post by kickforfun on 09/09/15, 10:09 am

I came across this random game after reading some here.  Here is a perfect example of Sally kicking to Angie.  It worked in this game as the forward got fouled in that big box thing... but this would never work in LH Girls at U14 and up.  These players are not developed.  I saw the blue team pass back to their goalie a few times.  I can tell that the coach is developing his players.  This blue team is going to be really good in a few years...I can tell because of all the passing backwards.  Awesome job coach!!

http://www.selecaousa.com/1337471039.html

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Re: Kickball

Post by progressiveparent on 09/09/15, 10:19 am

Argyle wrote:Fact is that a good coach must be able to teach both styles of play... nice passing game when the opposing team drops off and be able to play a little more direct when the other team high pressures and doesn't allow space to pass. Hence, players need to able to play both styles. The only decision to be made is when to teach each skill.  US women's national team was very average in the World Cup until they went three forwards and played direct. This is just the reality of the game. Not everyone can be Barcelona... Messi's don't fall off trees

cheers cheers cheers

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Re: Kickball

Post by RightWingDad on 09/09/15, 10:43 am

Peak_Performance_Dad wrote:
doublevision wrote:Kickball: sally is 9 years old. A Defender. Angie is bigger faster Foward 9 years old. They play for the same team. Their coach, let's call him chuck, is known to be a great coach because he's won 50 games in a row. Although he didn't even play soccer himself. He recruits better talent every year because he wins and that's all most parents care about.  In one game Sally, the defender, runs up on the ball. Under no pressure and without any first touch she boots it down the field as far as she can. Sally dad yells send it as she does this. Sally's mom yells "good kick" cause it went really high. It bounces 5 times till Angie, the Foward who is fast as hell, runs to it. She out runs 5 defender and hits a laser to the back post. Chucks team wins and they are now ranked 1st in FBR. Fast Foward 4 years. Sally's and Angie are now 13.  Angie, the fast Foward, now plays defense. She cant outrun girls anymore and doesn't have the skills to beat defenders. Sally plays goalie cause all she can do well is boot it. She lacks a good first touch and field awareness. She has no idea what it means to switch the field. Chuck loses his team cause he is not winning any longer and the smaller, smarter soccer teams are now ranked 1st in FBR.  

Easily the best post I have read on here in a long time.  I am seeing this play out before my eyes.

Agree, it's a great post. The only think I might add/tweak would be that when super coach Chuck loses his U13 team he goes back and picks up a few academy teams full of rookie parents and kids in which he can impress with his futbol wizardry. Coach Chuck also enrolls in online classes to enhance his English accent.
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Re: Kickball

Post by go99 on 09/09/15, 12:01 pm

progressiveparent wrote:
Argyle wrote:Fact is that a good coach must be able to teach both styles of play... nice passing game when the opposing team drops off and be able to play a little more direct when the other team high pressures and doesn't allow space to pass. Hence, players need to able to play both styles. The only decision to be made is when to teach each skill.  US women's national team was very average in the World Cup until they went three forwards and played direct. This is just the reality of the game. Not everyone can be Barcelona... Messi's don't fall off trees

cheers cheers cheers


WRONG!!!! Evil or Very Mad You don't need to teach kickball. It is a very useful and valid tactic for winning games not for teaching. A kid that comes up playing possession can always be told to boot the ball later. A kickballer cannot be taught possession later. The problem with your theory once "children" are taught to boot it to escape pressure they will always take the easy safe way out "boot it". Teaching possession is useless if you only want the kids to use it when there is no pressure.

Now on to the US. They were average because they are a bunch of kickballers (see previous comment). They were one of the worst playing teams when they tied to actually play so they used their athletic advantage. However soccer is becoming more accepted as a woman's game around the world and as the rest of the world gets more athletic the US women will become exactly what the men are, irrelevant kickballers.

Childrens soccer is not the same as adult soccer Where players matter more than teams instead of wins is the only barometer

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Re: Kickball

Post by Argyle on 09/09/15, 12:22 pm

I guess we have a difference of opinion on skill set. I believe hitting a 40 yard half volley into the path of a runner is a skill and can't be taught at age 18. I think just kicking the ball over the top to nobody is not a skill set.

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Re: Kickball

Post by go99 on 09/09/15, 12:36 pm

actually no hitting a 40 yrd half volley is a combination of skills and age. My older boy couldn't shoot outside the box really at U11 but now can hit a ball 40 yds into the upper 90. It wasn't a skill taught at 18 it was the combination of all the things he was taught from academy on and then getting bigger. Again a kid that has been playing possesion will have the skill set needed to execute a long pass
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Re: Kickball

Post by Argyle on 09/09/15, 12:44 pm

Again a kid that has been playing possession will have the skill set needed to execute a long pass

One would think... but that is not always the case


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Re: Kickball

Post by go99 on 09/09/15, 12:55 pm

I think maybe the idea of possesion is different. It's not all 5 to 10 yard passes. For example a center midfielder being able to get the ball in and out of her feet in 2 touches switching it all the way to the other sideline. Well the same technique she needs to get it all the way wide is the same as the one she will need to find a penetrating run 40 yds down field. Most of which comes with techniques, age, and strenght. Or lets say a CB who can switch the fields skipping the other CB. Again same technique. Now once I have a team full of skilled kids it is as simple as the other team is pressing high I want you to kick this ball over and in behind. If they have the strength they will be able to execute it. Technique is taught when they are younger power and strength will come when they get older.

So many teams play kickball here because it works. There are always excuses for the deployment and really in the end only the kid pays for it. Even coaches that know its bad use it because we not only accept it we demand it. NTX has a reputation for it. It's why there is very little respect for the texas game in CA and with the national team and west coast colleges
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Re: Kickball

Post by Argyle on 09/09/15, 12:59 pm

I agree with everything in that statement... Sometimes people see a 25-yard splitting pass that leads to a breakaway as kickball, and it's not. It is a well-placed pass that takes technique and timing.

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Re: Kickball

Post by blackcleatsoccerfan on 09/09/15, 01:15 pm

If a kid runs up and boots the ball and never looks up to see where "the pass"it is going and has no clue = kickball. If a kid strategically plays a long hard ball to a specific player waiting or one who is anticipating it and running towards that space is NOT kickball. Both exist at this level......
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Re: Kickball

Post by adufresne on 09/09/15, 02:34 pm

The worst is when a kid is under little to no pressure with 4 or 5 options and just kicks it out of bounds. I can live with the long ball if somebody is open or there's space to play into. Booting it out of bounds is my pet peeve.

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Re: Kickball

Post by go99 on 09/09/15, 03:45 pm

blackcleatsoccerfan wrote:If a kid runs up and boots the ball and never looks up to see where "the pass"it is going and has no clue = kickball.  If a kid strategically plays a long hard ball to a specific player waiting or one who is anticipating it and running towards that space is NOT kickball.  Both exist at this level......

Really???? if the forward is standing with the backline poised like a track star looking for the handoff of the baton and you boot it up there and she outruns everyone you aren't the next Pirlo you are just a kickballer whos forward is faster than the other kickballers. If you want the Brazil US a$$kicking then the Neymar PK was a solid example of a long ball. US got caught up and Neymar slipped out and wide the CB spotted him and hit him on the chest close to 60 yd away. Thats not what I see here. I see static forwards waiting(standing at the backline) No clever runs. Defenders looking up because they feel they can boot it that far. In the boys DA they call those turnovers. Son dealt with it last year as players scream at the defender (Hey it's not working why don't you try something else). So if you see it on your team believe me everyone has an excuse or can sift thru it to find the gold but in the end its just a BS coach teaching your kid to be a kickballer.

Oh another favorite of mine. The kickballers so well developed that a wide open 10 yd pass with a clear path is kicked at their teammate as it takes that lovely little mini boot in the air. Love those.
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Re: Kickball

Post by go99 on 09/09/15, 03:54 pm

Youth soccer here is about mistakes.  Boot it up so you don't make a mistake on you defensive end (those cost you goals).  It immediately puts the other team under pressure of making a mistake in their own end (gets you goals).  Because you limit the number of touches and players touching the ball you limit the chance for mistakes.  If you try to posses the ball and lets say make 10 passes it only take 1 kid to make a mistake and the house of cards fall so instead of 10 passes do it in 3.  Oh and definitely scream "go forward"  because passing back (away from pressure) puts you at the dreaded starting point of making a mistake on your own end.  I watched a youth Japanese team play and their first touch/pass was always away from pressure.  They just kept moving it until they broke the pressure and then attacked.  It takes patience, willingness to let kids make mistakes and a willingness to lose.  None of those are possessed here in NTX in great quantities.
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Re: Kickball

Post by Son_ofa_Pitch on 09/09/15, 04:03 pm

adufresne wrote:The worst is when a kid is under little to no pressure with 4 or 5 options and just kicks it out of bounds. I can live with the long ball if somebody is open or there's space to play into. Booting it out of bounds is my pet peeve.

You and I both!!!
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Re: Kickball

Post by go99 on 09/09/15, 04:10 pm

adufresne wrote:The worst is when a kid is under little to no pressure with 4 or 5 options and just kicks it out of bounds. I can live with the long ball if somebody is open or there's space to play into. Booting it out of bounds is my pet peeve.
can't make a mistake or get beat if you boot it out of bounds cheers
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Re: Kickball

Post by isawthelight on 09/09/15, 04:14 pm

Isn't the motto, when in doubt kick it out? Plenty of kids panic and do this 3-4 times in a row. Crazy..
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Re: Kickball

Post by MrRogers on 09/09/15, 04:18 pm

go99 wrote:
blackcleatsoccerfan wrote:If a kid runs up and boots the ball and never looks up to see where "the pass"it is going and has no clue = kickball.  If a kid strategically plays a long hard ball to a specific player waiting or one who is anticipating it and running towards that space is NOT kickball.  Both exist at this level......

Really???? if the forward is standing with the backline poised like a track star looking for the handoff of the baton and you boot it up there and she outruns everyone you aren't the next Pirlo you are just a kickballer whos forward is faster than the other kickballers.  If you want the Brazil US a$$kicking then the Neymar PK was a solid example of a long ball.  US got caught up and Neymar slipped out and wide the CB spotted him and hit him on the chest close to 60 yd away.  Thats not what I see here.  I see static forwards waiting(standing at the backline)  No clever runs.  Defenders looking up because they feel they can boot it that far.  In the boys DA they call those turnovers.  Son dealt with it last year as players scream at the defender (Hey it's not working why don't you try something else).  So if you see it on your team believe me everyone has an excuse or can sift thru it to find the gold but in the end its just a BS coach teaching your kid to be a kickballer.  

Oh another favorite of mine.  The kickballers so well developed that a wide open 10 yd pass with a clear path is kicked at their teammate as it takes that lovely little mini boot in the air.  Love those.

You are both right in a way and you hit on in here with the "it's not working try something else" comment.

I want my little CB to be able to play more than one type of game. I want her to be creative and not a robot. I want her to learn to read when to play the ball near to draw/stretch the opponents back and play it long when she sees the opposing team sleeping up top. I want her to trust her teammates and build chemistry to make the long balls successful while building on the skill to play it tight under pressure. I am looking for her to become a complete well rounded player.

Now she is 11, and sometimes gets impatient looking to f_o_r_c_e things or gets used to her team being in certain places. So yea, she will resort to "KB" every now and then. Constantly playing balls to nowhere will earn a swift rebuke from the coach. Truth is I have seen all of the top 3-4 teams here play kick ball at different parts of games that are highly contested. I think it is easy for us to forget how young they are for how they play.

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Re: Kickball

Post by Guest on 09/09/15, 04:18 pm

go99 wrote:

Really???? if the forward is standing with the backline poised like a track star looking for the handoff of the baton and you boot it up there and she outruns everyone you aren't the next Pirlo you are just a kickballer whos forward is faster than the other kickballers.  

lol! This is classic!!! COULDN'T HAVE SAID IT BETTER MYSELF!

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Re: Kickball

Post by jogobonito06 on 09/09/15, 04:21 pm

Saw a left fullback hammer a ball down the touchline and out of bounds to relieve pressure this weekend. It was hit so hard Usain Bolt could not have got on to it.

It was greeted by a loud and appreciative "NICE BALL!!!!" by dad. And the cycle continues.....
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Re: Kickball

Post by MrRogers on 09/09/15, 04:22 pm

isawthelight wrote:Isn't the motto, when in doubt kick it out? Plenty of kids panic and do this 3-4 times in a row. Crazy..

Also, defenders have the worst end of this... A forward can foul, make bad passes, lose the ball, miss 5 open looks etc. and as long as they make that 1 goal, they are heroes.

The defender on the other hand who cannot foul, has to play under heavy pressure, cannot just "kick it out", shuts down the opposing forwards/mids all game and makes one mistake and they are the dud of the game.



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Re: Kickball

Post by RightWingDad on 09/09/15, 04:40 pm

MrRogers wrote:
isawthelight wrote:Isn't the motto, when in doubt kick it out? Plenty of kids panic and do this 3-4 times in a row. Crazy..

Also, defenders have the worst end of this... A forward can foul, make bad passes, lose the ball, miss 5 open looks etc. and as long as they make that 1 goal, they are heroes.

The defender on the other hand who cannot foul, has to play under heavy pressure, cannot just "kick it out", shuts down the opposing forwards/mids all game and makes one mistake and they are the dud of the game.



Hang in there MrR, I've been told defenders are more valuable at the older ages into college. Speedy forwards are a dime a dozen yet a solid, smart and skilled defender is a very valuable asset.
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Re: Kickball

Post by Driver on 09/09/15, 05:00 pm

There are two styles of youth play:  Possession and Kickball.  the difference is all about control.  If your team controls the ball it doesn't matter whether it is a 40 or 5 yard pass.  A team that makes bunches of shorter passes into space that are picked off by the defense is no more a possession team than the one who can't spell mid field.  Possession means control.  If the open space is 30 yards downfield and the pass is to feet, you are still in control of the ball and game.  My favorite example though is the possession teams who work their way down the field and settle for a weak or mis-targeted shot rather than resetting and retaining control.  A weak shot to the keeper is no better than a 50 yard blast to the sweeper.

The best reason for the kickball game is that it takes less talent to compete.  It is no different than football or basketball where it is my stud vs yours with all the average kids expected to stay out of the way.  All is well until you find an opponent that plays team defense well enough to neutralize your stud.  Success most often determines tactics.  If it works, do it.  But have something else in your hip pocket to go to when you bog down.  I have found though over the years that a team seldom loses if they don't allow the other team to play with the ball.  A good possession offense may indeed be the best defense.
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