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Qualifying seeding

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Qualifying seeding

Post by gohuskers on 8/7/2016, 1:50 pm

How does seeding work for a team that is not playing in King Tut?

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Re: Qualifying seeding

Post by jibjab on 8/7/2016, 2:14 pm

How does seeding work for EVERY team (playing King Tut or not)?

Answer: FBR

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Re: Qualifying seeding

Post by dadof3 on 8/7/2016, 2:57 pm

For 04s? Probably NOT FBR. Lol. Likely league finishes from last year with some mix between last year's established 04s and this year's 05/04s. Would expect it to be some guess work mixed with recent results as well. It will certainly be interesting.

How many 04 teams out there going to try QT? Would expect MOST of Tut and several others who played tournaments earlier this summer to go for it.

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see the first weekend as an eliminator...and the second as a reseeded qualifier...


Last edited by dadof3 on 8/7/2016, 2:59 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added my $.02 about what I suspect...)
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Re: Qualifying seeding

Post by jibjab on 8/7/2016, 4:09 pm

2014 FBR

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Re: Qualifying seeding

Post by dadof3 on 8/7/2016, 4:51 pm

You may be right, but with the mix of teams across years...I doubt it. Think of how many girls have changed teams in last two years...the mix of 05 teams that moved into 04 and 04 teams that have changed (losing 03s, adding 04s) makes that quite unreliable. Results from last year are 12 months closer to correct...I think it will be a mix from tut and results from last year. It is just a more reliable predictor. Tut may mean more than last year if there are few results too.
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Re: Qualifying seeding

Post by soccerdivahmom22 on 8/7/2016, 11:28 pm

jibjab wrote:How does seeding work for EVERY team (playing King Tut or not)?

Answer:  FBR

What is FBR????

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Re: Qualifying seeding

Post by dadof3 on 9/7/2016, 3:33 am

FBR is the ranking system of the forum...it is produced by using data on teams while kids are in academy (U10 and younger). LH doesn't admit using it but their tournament seeding is closely aligned to the FBR ranks. The fact that LH would use it 2 years after the last bit of data (2014), before they signed contracts...and played 2 years of soccer, is why I am saying it wouldn't be reliable...especially for teams that didn't qualify because a lot of those teams have changed quite a bit in 2 years (for the traditional 04s, and a year for the traditional 05s).

I do think that the top teams in that FBR are probably LEAST changed over this time...but they don't need to qualify since they were the teams that did qualify 2 years ago (in most cases)...and the FBR does NOT show how those 04 teams did against 05 teams...which will probably be about half of the teams trying to qualify anyway.
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Re: Qualifying seeding

Post by soccerdivahmom22 on 9/7/2016, 12:47 pm

dadof3 wrote:FBR is the ranking system of the forum...it is produced by using data on teams while kids are in academy (U10 and younger). LH doesn't admit using it but their tournament seeding is closely aligned to the FBR ranks. The fact that LH would use it 2 years after the last bit of data (2014), before they signed contracts...and played 2 years of soccer, is why I am saying it wouldn't be reliable...especially for teams that didn't qualify because a lot of those teams have changed quite a bit in 2 years (for the traditional 04s, and a year for the traditional 05s).

I do think that the top teams in that FBR are probably LEAST changed over this time...but they don't need to qualify since they were the teams that did qualify 2 years ago (in most cases)...and the FBR does NOT show how those 04 teams did against 05 teams...which will probably be about half of the teams trying to qualify anyway.

Thanks for clarifying!!! I am new to all of this seeding and QT's. This is my DD second year of select and THANK GOODNESS we didn't have to re-qualify as her team got the bye. cheers

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Re: Qualifying seeding

Post by TatonkaBurger on 11/7/2016, 2:39 pm

dadof3 wrote:
I do think that the top teams in that FBR are probably LEAST changed over this time...

There is no way that this is accurate.  I bet most rosters are 50 to 70% different.  Most are probably more than that.
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Re: Qualifying seeding

Post by dadof3 on 11/7/2016, 4:31 pm

TatonkaBurger wrote:
dadof3 wrote:
I do think that the top teams in that FBR are probably LEAST changed over this time...

There is no way that this is accurate.  I bet most rosters are 50 to 70% different.  Most are probably more than that.

Let me rephrase that...The level of talent on the top qualifiers will have changed the least over the two years...the top 10 will have a majority of the top 100 players...so the level of those top teams will have changed least in my opinion...say 8 of the top 10 from the 2014 FBR are still 8 of the top 10 from the 2015-16 season...I am sure someone can prove me wrong with a list...(oh, and these teams would NOT have to qualify anyway).

However, your point that rosters are 50-70% different would also indicate that using a 2014 FBR would be 100% ludicrous...not that we won't see that happen...but why would we??

Anyway, it would be cool to see the comparison BWG...Do you have the 2014 and 2015 for comparisons sake??


Last edited by dadof3 on 11/7/2016, 4:32 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add parenthetical statement)
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Re: Qualifying seeding

Post by CBTeamworks on 12/7/2016, 12:10 am

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Re: Qualifying seeding

Post by dadof3 on 12/7/2016, 1:02 am


Ok, so there were 15 in D1 last year...wanna make the cut at top 15 on FBR and see where the teams are:

6 LP (Flynn), 2 FCD Wedall, 5? DT Patterson, 4 DT Adams, 3 D'F Kenn, 11 Solar Pulp, 7 Sting Hilton/Gut, 26? DT Stark, 8 LP Owen, 13 Odyssey, 10? Sting Gut/Hilt, 16? FCD Williams, 1 Spirit Clark, 15 Spirit Khoury, ??Sting Shep.

5 DT Scott?? Is that Patterson?
9 Sting East??
10 Sting Diaz?? Sting Hilton??
14 LP Redknap??
16 FCD Thompson?? Williams??

Somebody correct me...and spill on which teams morphed into other teams on this list w different coaches/clubs because I didn't follow it closely and don't know. I put question marks on guesses...but I feel like there are probably 11 or 12 of the 15 minimally who were 2014 FBR top teams that are still today...and probably could do that at the older ages (with more variation as we go) and just call them ecnl and then go down the list...

It will get murkier as we go into the 20s and 30s and worse still in the 40s and beyond because those teams were always going to lose players to teams above them and have other attrition.
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Re: Qualifying seeding

Post by SD69 on 12/7/2016, 9:26 am

The logic to use a two year old FBR to predict teams QT placements is funny. It probably is true that the teams near the top are the least changed. With that said, the top 15 from a player perspective looks nothing like it did two years ago. 1/4 to 1/2 of these teams are no longer teams. The ECNL clubs are using their top two 04 teams for JDL so they won't be qualifying anyway. A lot of these teams were heavy on the 03 side any so AP changed these even further.

If these teams this much, I can't imagine how the teams even lower that will be going through QT has changed.
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Re: Qualifying seeding

Post by bwgophers on 12/7/2016, 9:51 am

In recent years, for the age groups older than U11, LH would typically seed QT based heavily on league standings from the previous year (LH/PPL/APL), with possibly taking TuT and other recent spring tourney results into consideration as well.

Obviously, this year is quite different with the AP shuffle.  However, my guess (sorry, I have no inside info on this one), is that they will still give strong consideration to prior year league standings, and will likely pay closer attention to King TuT and other recent tourney results where some of the teams that were in different age groups last year might play each other prior to QT.

One thing that I highly doubt is that they would give any consideration to 2 year old FBR data in the seeding process.

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Re: Qualifying seeding

Post by Dec2020 on 12/7/2016, 6:32 pm

I've notice some teams don't have any game history on got-soccer and many are from big clubs. Maybe they just get (or want) a clean slate with a new AP roster? Imagine it would be hard to place teams in the QT or even King Tut w/o any history to refer to.

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Re: Qualifying seeding

Post by TatonkaBurger on 13/7/2016, 9:55 am

King TUT is not going to be a good barometer.  There is not a lot of competition in it this weekend.  But we will enjoy getting the touches for our DDs I guess.
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Re: Qualifying seeding

Post by CBTeamworks on 13/7/2016, 1:29 pm

I disagree about the competition. QT will have non-LH teams but KT has both non-LH as well as LH bye teams.
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