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LHGCL vs JDL

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LHGCL vs JDL

Post by Cam203030 on 28/08/16, 08:04 pm

So what is JDL for what should i look at this league for... and how is this going to be better than playing in LHGCL
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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by SkeetsG06 on 28/08/16, 09:04 pm

GREAT QUESTION!!!

WISH I KNEW THE ANSWER

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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by Sho'Nuff on 28/08/16, 09:05 pm

JDL is about development.

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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by SickofStupidity on 28/08/16, 09:07 pm

JDL is the attempt by ECNL clubs to lure players away from non-ECNL clubs with the promise of future opportunities in ECNL that other clubs can't provide.

To claim some type of "need" for a "developmental league" - why?  because these coaches can't develop players if score is being kept?

and yet - multiple JDL teams across age groups are playing in alternate leagues that DO keep score - apparently development doesn't happen in those games

mind you - not all coaches within these clubs are buying the nonsense the DOCs are selling

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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by ElClassico on 28/08/16, 09:13 pm

Sho'Nuff wrote:JDL is about development.

Then why did JDL coaches spend so much time recruiting outside of their clubs?

I tend to agree with SoS that its simply a ploy to stow talent by selling the parents on the same ol' "if they try hard they'll make ECNL"
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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by Cam203030 on 28/08/16, 09:29 pm

but also how does a player get better when there's no score keeping
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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by Hodor on 28/08/16, 10:05 pm

Who said they weren't keeping score? They aren't going to be scrimmaging. Hodor was told they just won't have standings. Like a showcase.
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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by AngelinaGoalee on 28/08/16, 11:08 pm

It hasn't even started and by default it's better than LH. D2 teams who would have dropped from D2 have "inherited" D1 byes and are getting smacked around as expected because their generous club mates took off to JDL and champions league etc...

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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by Sho'Nuff on 29/08/16, 08:38 am

Will we get gotsoccer points in JDL?

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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by 4-4-2 on 29/08/16, 09:17 am

Next 2-3 years will be interesting on how the LH competition shapes up due to DA in the horizon!

AngelinaGoalee wrote:It hasn't even started and by default it's better than LH. D2 teams who would have dropped from D2 have "inherited" D1 byes and are getting smacked around as expected because their generous club mates took off to JDL and champions league etc...

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Fire Away !!!

Post by TX Turf Burn 04 on 29/08/16, 10:27 am

Incorporating some info from other 04 JDL posts, as well as seeing some of them play in person, it seems to me that the perceived (A) teams from the Power 4 clubs, (DTS ADAMES), (STING DIAZ), (SOLAR PULP), (FCD WEDDLE RED)...in random order, are widely considered the top tier of 04 teams in NTX. (RUSH), is probably up there as well. The perceived (B) teams from each of those clubs as well as (LIVERPOOL) and (FCD PREMIER) are probably not far behind. The only other club with any stature (D'FEETERS) are a big question mark at best.  As far as the JDL vs LHCL, if all the teams listed playing each other week, in week out with the exception of a few is not a good thing then I don't know what is. And most of the others with the addition of a few Oklahoma teams will all play each other in several future tournaments.  It would be interesting to hear opinions from the long time contributors. Agree, Disagree?  Fire Away!!!
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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by Cam203030 on 29/08/16, 10:54 am

i agree..... LHGCL D1 teams have to keep on performing in developing to keep the top spots in the D1 division.... so JDL will be for scrimmage
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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by SickofStupidity on 29/08/16, 10:58 am

TX Turf Burn 04 wrote:Incorporating some info from other 04 JDL posts, as well as seeing some of them play in person, it seems to me that the perceived (A) teams from the Power 4 clubs, (DTS ADAMES), (STING DIAZ), (SOLAR PULP), (FCD WEDDLE RED)...in random order, are widely considered the top tier of 04 teams in NTX. (RUSH), is probably up there as well. The perceived (B) teams from each of those clubs as well as (LIVERPOOL) and (FCD PREMIER) are probably not far behind. The only other club with any stature (D'FEETERS) are a big question mark at best.  As far as the JDL vs LHCL, if all the teams listed playing each other week, in week out with the exception of a few is not a good thing then I don't know what is. And most of the others with the addition of a few Oklahoma teams will all play each other in several future tournaments.  It would be interesting to hear opinions from the long time contributors. Agree, Disagree?  Fire Away!!!

Probably not an unfair comment - but how does this differ from the old D1, D2, D3 structure?

no standings (or score?)- how does that promote "development"?  can anyone seriously say Adames or Pulp or any of these other coaches was not developing kids BECAUSE there were league standings?

you mention LP and FCD Premier - neither of them are a participant in the JDL scenario;  other successful and talented independents are shut out

JDL is not about "development" or "competitive play" - it's about ECNL clubs trying to monopolize talent (and $$) in NTX

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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by Big Ern on 29/08/16, 11:47 am

SickofSilliness wrote:JDL is the attempt by ECNL clubs to lure players away from non-ECNL clubs with the promise of future opportunities in ECNL that other clubs can't provide.

To claim some type of "need" for a "developmental league" - why?  because these coaches can't develop players if score is being kept?

and yet - multiple JDL teams across age groups are playing in alternate leagues that DO keep score - apparently development doesn't happen in those games

mind you - not all coaches within these clubs are buying the nonsense the DOCs are selling

Speaking of Silliness ...

While I agree at JDL did and will continue to lure top talent from other clubs to the Big 5, the jest of the message is off.

Those girls that did make the jump to JDL sides this off season did indeed put themselves in better position to land an ECNL spot int he upcoming year, especially with those clubs that are adding DA next year. JDL has been in the works for awhile and was proposed to LH by the big boys at the Big 5 in an attempt to build potential ECNL pools of players prior to official selection, and set up more consistently high competition throughout the year. In addition, players will be introduced to the ECNL experience as matches are set up the same (benches and water station) plus the ECNL substitution rules will be in effect. The JDL Division is less about 'development' and more about 'prep'. Ripping it because of lack of score keeping, it having to be "sold" and the other nonsense I've been reading over the past couple months is outlandish.

The additions made by the Big 5 even after the hit from AP, were significant and unquestionably will water down LH. While there will be an argument that not every team participating in JDL is better than every team in D1, the majority of the top coaches, teams and individual players will be playing in JDL ... It's just the nature of the system now in place and will continue. And you won't see any of the top coaches (CP/LW)/teams playing in both JDL and D1 as they have a proper understanding of what it is for.

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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by SickofStupidity on 29/08/16, 12:00 pm

Guess you don't classify Gabe Adames as a "top coach"

I suppose that is why he consistently doesn't produce top teams Rolling Eyes

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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by Big Ern on 29/08/16, 12:07 pm

SickofSilliness wrote:Guess you don't classify Gabe Adames as a "top coach"

I suppose that is why he consistently doesn't produce top teams Rolling Eyes

I'm sorry SoS, but I do not ...

Being a former coach and watching him and the players he's had with him for quite awhile, he hasn't shown that he develops talent at the same level of some others. He does however draw strong young talent, and I'd almost call him a great recruiter, but then you run into the logistics argument ... he owns the south -- where else is the best south side talent gonna go?

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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by SickofStupidity on 29/08/16, 02:07 pm

BigErn wrote:
SickofSilliness wrote:JDL is the attempt by ECNL clubs to lure players away from non-ECNL clubs with the promise of future opportunities in ECNL that other clubs can't provide.

To claim some type of "need" for a "developmental league" - why?  because these coaches can't develop players if score is being kept?

and yet - multiple JDL teams across age groups are playing in alternate leagues that DO keep score - apparently development doesn't happen in those games

mind you - not all coaches within these clubs are buying the nonsense the DOCs are selling

Speaking of Silliness ...

While I agree at JDL did and will continue to lure top talent from other clubs to the Big 5, the jest of the message is off.

Those girls that did make the jump to JDL sides this off season did indeed put themselves in better position to land an ECNL spot int he upcoming year, especially with those clubs that are adding DA next year.  JDL has been in the works for awhile and was proposed to LH by the big boys at the Big 5 in an attempt to build potential ECNL pools of players prior to official selection, and set up more consistently high competition throughout the year.  In addition, players will be introduced to the ECNL experience as matches are set up the same (benches and water station) plus the ECNL substitution rules will be in effect.  The JDL Division is less about 'development' and more about 'prep'.  Ripping it because of lack of score keeping, it having to be "sold" and the other nonsense I've been reading over the past couple months is outlandish.

The additions made by the Big 5 even after the hit from AP, were significant and unquestionably will water down LH.  While there will be an argument that not every team participating in JDL is better than every team in D1, the majority of the top coaches, teams and individual players will be playing in JDL ... It's just the nature of the system now in place and will continue.  And you won't see any of the top coaches (CP/LW)/teams playing in both JDL and D1 as they have a proper understanding of what it is for.  

So could you share the "proper" understanding of JDL?

You are saying the value is less in "development" (because, after all, that is what has been "sold") and more in "prep"?  

I use the terms "sold" and "development" because that, ultimately, is what happened (you could say "promoted") - that this league would allow coaches to focus on "development" because they would not have the pressures of standings and relegation.

You say that a JDL will give them the "ECNL experience" because they have benches and water stations . . . which we all know is key at 11. Rolling Eyes

If a goal at this age is maximizing touches (which I believe is one of the goals in delaying 11v11 until later), I'm not sure how limiting substitutions at 11 promotes this.

I have merely argued that JDL is not a tool for development, as much as it is a tool for clubs to consolidate talent as within the Big 5 as early as possible, thereby monopolizing players and ultimately $.  

You yourself recognize that LW and CP are "top coaches" - but it didn't take JDL for you to figure that out.  They have developed players for years and earned their reputations - even when they had to be ranked and were at risk of relegation.

You claim that these JDL coaches wouldn't play their teams in D1 because it is apparently contrary to the mission of JDL.  What in D1 is so contrary to that mission?  Does the same hold true for other leagues and/or non-Jr ECNL tournaments?

So - all sarcasm aside - seriously what does JDL bring to the table to benefit 11-yr old soccer players?   How is LW's approach so much different today than it was 6 months ago?

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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by TatonkaBurger on 29/08/16, 02:20 pm

cheers
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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by Hodor on 29/08/16, 02:35 pm

Simply put JDL offers a more consistent level of play than D1. Week in and week out the games are more solid. That is the net result of the concentration of talent. That in turn leads to better development for the girls.
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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by JonSneauxTargaryen on 29/08/16, 02:42 pm

"Supposed to"
Lets start a thread in regards to that very statement...
JDL is "supposed to" do what youth soccer has been "suppose to" do.
Will it happen, who's to say?
You can sacrifice development for some wins then you'll be trying to hustle "catch up development" through various training programs and feedback from various coaches who are deemed "good coaches."
Im glad I get a do over with my 6yr old. It will hopefully be smoother this time around.

But i had the same question as SoS somewhat earlier in the spring. What will be different in the game if the training is the same?
I mean you can take a good look at a T-bone by sticking your head up a bull's @#$, but wouldn't you rather take the butcher's word for it?

not really the accurate analogy but i always wanted to use it!!



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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by ElClassico on 29/08/16, 03:22 pm

Darn it, I totally forgot about the water station that changes everything.
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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by db10 on 29/08/16, 03:33 pm

Some moons ago my DD's former coach told of a story of how none of this really mattered because ECNL didn't start till the girls were 14. And how 9, 10, and 11 year olds are totally different than 14 and up due to body changes and the fact that all the girls would "even out physically"

Funny how that's all magically changed now that a few people saw extra $$$ buy lowering the ages for "elite" checkbooks, oh sorry players.

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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by SickofStupidity on 29/08/16, 03:34 pm

Hodor wrote:Simply put JDL offers a more consistent level of play than D1.  Week in and week out the games are more solid.  That is the net result of the concentration of talent.  That in turn leads to better development for the girls.  

Before a single JDL game has even been scheduled. Evil or Very Mad

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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by Big Ern on 29/08/16, 03:35 pm

So could you share the "proper" understanding of JDL?  You are saying the value is less in "development" (because, after all, that is what has been "sold") and more in "prep"?

Didn't say anything about the value, just that the division is
more prepatory that developmental.  Just my opinion.


I use the terms "sold" and "development" because that, ultimately, is what happened (you could say "promoted") - that this league would allow coaches to focus on "development" because they would not have the pressures of standings and relegation.

I know nothing of this and having directly been a part of the formation of a JDL team, wasn't 'sold' nor was the idea that the division would allow coaches to focus on development promoted.

You say that a JDL will give them the "ECNL experience" because they have benches and water stations . . . which we all know is key at 11.  If a goal at this age is maximizing touches (which I believe is one of the goals in delaying 11v11 until later), I'm not sure how limiting substitutions at 11 promotes this.

Agreed here.  I think JDL should be for U13 only, in which case, the ECNL experience is very beneficial.

I have merely argued that JDL is not a tool for development, as much as it is a tool for clubs to consolidate talent as within the Big 5 as early as possible, thereby monopolizing players and ultimately $.  

This is true, but for those in the know, is necessary.  The NTX competitive landscape is more watered down in comparison to other power regions (SoCal, CO, NJ) due to too many clubs/teams.  Could go on for awhile on this point, but it was made very evident just by looking at the USWNT U17 WC rosters that were just released ... no TX kids.  The numbers and talent are here, but those star players aren't able to maximize potential due to playing on teams surrounded by players that aren't close to their level, therefore aren't being recognized as often.  Consolidating the talent is a solution.

You yourself recognize that LW and CP are "top coaches" - but it didn't take JDL for you to figure that out.  They have developed players for years and earned their reputations - even when they had to be ranked and were at risk of relegation.  You claim that these JDL coaches wouldn't play their teams in D1 because it is apparently contrary to the mission of JDL.  What in D1 is so contrary to that mission?

Simple.  More matches, less quality (what playing in either LH D1 or both at once would be) is clearly opposite of the US Soccer developmental philosophy

So - all sarcasm aside - seriously what does JDL bring to the table to benefit 11-yr old soccer players?  

As I mentioned before, not much ... in my opinion, should be a focus for the top level talent in the U13 group.  This is the 04 forum correct?  Nobody on here should be referencing 06s.

How is LW's approach so much different today than it was 6 months ago?

I don't believe it is ... just that there is now a superior league play option for his 04 girls.

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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by Sho'Nuff on 29/08/16, 03:44 pm

I think there are more 11-yr olds playing '04 than '06.

Carry on

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