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LHGCL vs JDL

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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by Sho'Nuff on 29/08/16, 03:44 pm

I think there are more 11-yr olds playing '04 than '06.

Carry on

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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by BigErn on 29/08/16, 03:51 pm

Sho'Nuff wrote:I think there are more 11-yr olds playing '04 than '06.

Carry on

While unnecessary to point out since they are U13 and will be eligible for ECNL next year, this is true. AP still getting to me --

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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by SickofSilliness on 29/08/16, 04:04 pm

If the Big 5 were as altruistic as you would like to suggest, then maybe they would have limited JDL to U13, but they didn't.  Your assertion that it is more "preparatory" loses some validity when the "preparation" is spread over multiple years.

"The numbers and talent are here, but those star players aren't able to maximize potential due to playing on teams surrounded by players that aren't close to their level, therefore aren't being recognized as often.  Consolidating the talent is a solution."

And how does JDL fix that?  Players had the same ability then as now to leave their team, identify a better team / better coaching and move to a more competitive situation.  Consolidation of talent was available before - it was called D1 - now its called JDL.  Except now it excludes excellent teams who are receiving excellent coaching - unless you want to leave and join the Big 5.  Make sure teams like 01 Kicks don't exist to kick sand in the ECNL team's faces.

Previously, those "star players" who were trapped forever on terrible teams, could not recognize the opportunities they were missing in D1 playing for LW - but throw a "JDL" label on it and they suddenly have a revelation to leave their teams and join one of the chosen clubs?  Rolling Eyes

The Big 5 made the decision that consolidation was the answer - but only if the consolidated teams belong to a club that has rights to ECNL (and they can't be "affiliated" with an ECNL club, but must have a roster and uniforms of an ECNL club).  LW was a great coach with LP - but under the JDL plan, not good enough to coach a new consolidated team.  Leave LP and join FCD, and he can coach multiple teams.  JM can't play his Kicks team - but throw on a D'Feeters uniform and it wont be a problem. Evil or Very Mad

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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by bwgophers on 29/08/16, 04:07 pm

SickofSilliness wrote:

So - all sarcasm aside - seriously what does JDL bring to the table to benefit 11-yr old soccer players?  

In THEORY, the concept of JDL brings 3 benefits:

1)  No standings or promotion/relegation removes the "necessity" of winning.  In THEORY, coaches would feel more free to make coaching moves in games with the priority on "development" over winning.  This would include (but not limited to), playing players in different positions and using different formations and/or tactical emphasis.  Mistakes that alter the score line of a game, don't have ramifications to standings or promotion/relegation, so there would be an environment that is more more tolerant of trial and error, and which should benefit development.

2)  Per Hodor and BigErn's points, a more consistent level of quality competition.

3)  Roster flexibility to bring in players as the coach(es) see fit, to best help development.

Playing JDL exclusively, vs. JDL + LGHCL, comes down to following US Soccer guidelines regarding the ratio of practice to game play.  US Soccer would NOT recommend playing in both leagues.

Again, all of those points are in theory.  The question is whether or not the coaches and/or parents can put their egos aside to actually realize the potential benefits at hand.

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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by 5050Ball on 29/08/16, 04:13 pm

A theory must be tempered with reality - Nehru

Somewhere down the road, once JDL has found a foothold, those ideals may be realized. With the roster of current coaches handling JDL teams, no chance.
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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by TatonkaBurger on 29/08/16, 04:35 pm

I am a JDL sheep but I am a skeptical JDL sheep.  You parents who are convinced and sold on the idea that this is the greatest thing for the development of your DD and that the consolidation (or killing off) of small, independent clubs is great for little Mia are smoking something.  This is good only for those 5 clubs that get to make more money now.  JDL will do nothing to get more NTX girls into the US national team player pool.  DA will, but JDL will not.
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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by Lefty on 29/08/16, 04:43 pm

As mentioned in another post on Champions League. It will be interesting to see it play out over time.

Have the big clubs set in motion the killing of the golden goose (parents/players paying same/similar price for top teams and bottom teams) in order to gain more control and autonomy over the top 100-120 players in each age group?

With the number of leagues and layers making the stratification of talent much more visible, how long will it take parents to realize that anything other than DA or ECNL/JDL is really Rec+?

With it clear the rest of the leagues do not really provide any upward mobility for teams, or a realistic chance of $/playing in college, parents are likely to look for more cost effective alternatives.

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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by BigErn on 29/08/16, 06:09 pm

T Burger -

1) I think I can speak for most of us that have DDs playing in JDL that we don't have them playing there because we believe they will be any more 'developed', instead it's because they're on a more efficient and advantageous path to achieve their goals.

2) Where do you think the majority of the 04s that play in DA next year are gonna come from?

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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by Cam203030 on 29/08/16, 06:42 pm

I think JDL should be just for Academy girls that are getting ready to move up LHGCL and not the girls that already playing in LH but I guess we will see how this turns out to be
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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by Cam203030 on 29/08/16, 06:44 pm

What is DA about that is coming next year
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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by ElClassico on 29/08/16, 09:21 pm

If this was anywhere else outside of the US and Canada we would not be concerned with only 5 clubs in Dallas in fact it would be normal. A player develops differently from year to year especially when they are younger (this is why ECNL started at 14 in the first place). So your DD would be placed on a team that best suited her each year and not have to go club to club trying out each summer. Also based on this theory coaching can be better monitored based on the soccer association of that country. (read up on how Germany turned their youth system around)

The problem I see with separating girls so early is the possibility that late bloomers are missed. Now I know there are parents out there that are sure their JDL princess is destined for greatness but if you look closely at the birthdays of the JDL teams, ECNL teams, etc you will notice that most happen to be pretty early in year. Yes mom's and dad's out there, your daughter is probably on these "elite teams" at this younger age because they're 4" taller than another player that's almost a year younger. Don't believe it? Take a look at a typical roster that's in what remains of LH D1 and you'll see all the birthdays are late in the year and the general statement around that club is "wow they look small out there".

So the original theory was let them play together until 14 and by that time most of the physical differences would have evened out. Now we can see who's who based on skill a bit (I say a bit because its still NTX where a decent linebacker size rich girl is more valued that a smaller skilled poor girl). But the powers that be know the parents well enough to know that different letters = more money so why not throw all the previous theory to the side and lower the ages.

And you know what, I thank them for it...how else could we have those wise coaches asking the question of the summer, "looking for full time 08 GK" because we all know if the little darlings can't figure out their permanent positions by 10 how can they ever expect to make it?
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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by Sho'Nuff on 29/08/16, 09:25 pm

Cam203030 wrote:What is DA about that is coming next year

Development

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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by soccerjack on 29/08/16, 09:55 pm

Sho'Nuff wrote:
Cam203030 wrote:What is DA about that is coming next year

Development


Lol. Then why is it that the jdl teams are made up of the biggest....pushiest kids in the age group? Ntx soccer....same $hit just mo money for the bigs. Is what it is...and yes they blocked kicks for monetary or ego gain. Nothing to do with development. Still about the biggest 11 yr old....nothing to do with skills.
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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by Hodor on 29/08/16, 11:42 pm

soccerjack wrote:
Sho'Nuff wrote:
Cam203030 wrote:What is DA about that is coming next year

Development


Lol. Then why is it that the jdl teams are made up of the biggest....pushiest kids in the age group?  Ntx soccer....same $hit just mo money for the bigs. Is what it is...and yes they blocked kicks for monetary or ego gain. Nothing to do with development. Still about the biggest 11 yr old....nothing to do with skills.

Have you seen Pulp's team?
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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by JonSneauxTargaryen on 30/08/16, 07:51 am

Hodor wrote:
soccerjack wrote:
Sho'Nuff wrote:
Cam203030 wrote:What is DA about that is coming next year

Development


Lol. Then why is it that the jdl teams are made up of the biggest....pushiest kids in the age group?  Ntx soccer....same $hit just mo money for the bigs. Is what it is...and yes they blocked kicks for monetary or ego gain. Nothing to do with development. Still about the biggest 11 yr old....nothing to do with skills.

Have you seen Pulp's team?
are they little?

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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by soccerjack on 30/08/16, 08:09 am

Hodor wrote:
soccerjack wrote:
Sho'Nuff wrote:
Cam203030 wrote:What is DA about that is coming next year

Development


Lol. Then why is it that the jdl teams are made up of the biggest....pushiest kids in the age group?  Ntx soccer....same $hit just mo money for the bigs. Is what it is...and yes they blocked kicks for monetary or ego gain. Nothing to do with development. Still about the biggest 11 yr old....nothing to do with skills.

Have you seen Pulp's team?

Bunch of 11 yr old hodors.
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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by PowerKick on 30/08/16, 09:20 am

soccerjack wrote:
Sho'Nuff wrote:
Cam203030 wrote:What is DA about that is coming next year

Development

Lol. Then why is it that the jdl teams are made up of the biggest....pushiest kids in the age group?  Ntx soccer....

Who told you biggest, pushiest kids not need development? LOL

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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by Hodor on 30/08/16, 10:05 am

Little HODORITA is very big and extremely "pushy".  Especially if you are betwixt her and ice cream!   She needs trainin' too!

I love her so. But unlike Bran - I can't carry her around. Too big.
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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by TatonkaBurger on 30/08/16, 10:08 am

BigErn wrote:T Burger -

1) I think I can speak for most of us that have DDs playing in JDL that we don't have them playing there because we believe they will be any more 'developed', instead it's because they're on a more efficient and advantageous path to achieve their goals.  

2) Where do you think the majority of the 04s that play in DA next year are gonna come from?  

I know, I know.  What was once the best possible 'prep' for ECNL (like getting to know what it is like to have 2 benches on one side of the field with a water jug in the middle and how to play in a game with less subs) and also the way to get more Texas girls in the National Team player pool, is now just the more efficient and advantageous path to achieve a goal.

Look, I am in the middle of JDL just like you are but PLEASE do not act like this is the greatest possible thing ever and all of us who question it or are even against the thinking behind it must have DDs outside of JDL.  That is just pompous ignorance and you don't "speak for most of us that have DDs playing in JDL".  

It is just my opinion but I don't see the benefit to the NTX soccer world... yet.  I do hope that I am wrong and that it does change things for the better.  But this monopoly (or oligopoly as it were) owned by the Big 5 has only fattened their own pockets and done little to help NTX soccer as a whole.  They were each going to get those DDs that were good enough for ECNL anyway when the time came.  All that happened was they flexed their muscle and destroyed clubs that had great history and tradition because they could.  And then all of the sheep followed.

I will turn around and share one more opinion with you.  The better solution for NTX soccer would have been to cut out the Big 5 club that really doesn't act like a Big 5 club, have its ECNL spot pulled, and then there is a pool of 4 teams to get the top talent.  That means there is less dilution of that top level NTX player pool and it is less drastic and damaging to the overall NTX soccer landscape.  DA went with 4 so it makes some sense to me.  But AP came through and changed everything anyway, so what do I know.  I am just a guy who sells big, juicy, tasty burgers to the masses.  Eat up people.
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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by Guest on 30/08/16, 10:49 am

BigErn wrote:T Burger -

1) I think I can speak for most of us that have DDs playing in JDL that we don't have them playing there because we believe they will be any more 'developed', instead it's because they're on a more efficient and advantageous path to achieve their goals.  

2) Where do you think the majority of the 04s that play in DA next year are gonna come from?  

Ah, breath of fresh air. Honesty. Thanks - truly.

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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by soccerjack on 30/08/16, 10:52 am

skiberdad wrote:
BigErn wrote:T Burger -

1) I think I can speak for most of us that have DDs playing in JDL that we don't have them playing there because we believe they will be any more 'developed', instead it's because they're on a more efficient and advantageous path to achieve their goals.  

2) Where do you think the majority of the 04s that play in DA next year are gonna come from?  

Ah, breath of fresh air.  Honesty.  Thanks - truly.  


Good point. I think People forget that all the ecnl players came from ecnl academy teams.
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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by BigErn on 30/08/16, 11:06 am

I will turn around and share one more opinion with you. The better solution for NTX soccer would have been to cut out the Big 5 club that really doesn't act like a Big 5 club, have its ECNL spot pulled, and then there is a pool of 4 teams to get the top talent. That means there is less dilution of that top level NTX player pool and it is less drastic and damaging to the overall NTX soccer landscape. DA went with 4 so it makes some sense to me.

Completely agreed T Burger ^

Although I was hoping for just two DA programs --

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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by TX Turf Burn 04 on 30/08/16, 11:08 am

soccerjack wrote:
skiberdad wrote:
BigErn wrote:T Burger -

1) I think I can speak for most of us that have DDs playing in JDL that we don't have them playing there because we believe they will be any more 'developed', instead it's because they're on a more efficient and advantageous path to achieve their goals.  

2) Where do you think the majority of the 04s that play in DA next year are gonna come from?  

Ah, breath of fresh air.  Honesty.  Thanks - truly.  


Good point. I think People forget that all the ecnl players came from ecnl academy teams.

Very well put...
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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by TatonkaBurger on 30/08/16, 11:12 am

BigErn wrote:I will turn around and share one more opinion with you.  The better solution for NTX soccer would have been to cut out the Big 5 club that really doesn't act like a Big 5 club, have its ECNL spot pulled, and then there is a pool of 4 teams to get the top talent.  That means there is less dilution of that top level NTX player pool and it is less drastic and damaging to the overall NTX soccer landscape.  DA went with 4 so it makes some sense to me.

Completely agreed T Burger ^

Although I was hoping for just two DA programs --

Now we are on the same page.  Two would have been great.  I thought three at most.
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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by 5050Ball on 30/08/16, 11:17 am

soccerjack wrote:
skiberdad wrote:
BigErn wrote:T Burger -

1) I think I can speak for most of us that have DDs playing in JDL that we don't have them playing there because we believe they will be any more 'developed', instead it's because they're on a more efficient and advantageous path to achieve their goals.  

2) Where do you think the majority of the 04s that play in DA next year are gonna come from?  

Ah, breath of fresh air.  Honesty.  Thanks - truly.  


Good point. I think People forget that all the ecnl players came from ecnl academy teams.

And they started with those ECNL academy teams at age 6 Rolling Eyes
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Re: LHGCL vs JDL

Post by ElClassico on 30/08/16, 11:32 am

The "Big 5 club" that doesn't act like a big 5 club has been around longer than most, hence it's seen quite a bit of changes and somehow managed to survive. When a mighty name from England came knocking nobody answered the door which says a lot. That being said it would make a lot more sense to flip those teams in ECNL based on recent history and perception.

BTW if the system isn't working the parents would be the ones to Dribble a fix, but try telling an ECNL parent something is wrong with soccer in NTX.
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