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Need Guidance:  16 players for a 9v9 format Pixel
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Need Guidance: 16 players for a 9v9 format

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Need Guidance:  16 players for a 9v9 format Empty Need Guidance: 16 players for a 9v9 format

Post by bigtex75081 on 09/01/17, 10:02 am

Is there any action to take...

My DD is an ’06 playing in the 9v9 format. When we met our DD’s coach, before we signed our contract, the coach and the manager told us they would only sign 12 or 13 players at most. 13 was their limit. Other families were told this as well.

At the signing party there were 15 players but I didn’t realize this until after signing.

There are almost no absences for this team. Player participation is probably 95% or more. I cannot recall an occasion where we didn’t have at least 5 subs on the sideline.

It now appears another player has just joined the team over the winter. That brings us to 16 players. That’s 16 players for a 9-player field. Our team only has 1 goalkeeper so she plays fulltime. That means we have 15 players vying for 8 field positions.

Not surprisingly, our DD is limited to 50% of the game no matter how hard she works in practice and on her own. Sometimes DD is starting, sometimes not. That wasn’t what we were hoping for when she joined a team that was supposed to only have 12-13 players. (There are other players on the roster that are getting a worse allocation with less playtime.)

I tend to be a very quiet parent. I don’t think there’s any action to take at this point. Is there any action worth taking? What’s your advice for how we can best handle this situation for our daughter?
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Post by 06Southgirl on 09/01/17, 10:13 am

I don't know which team you are on but I can tell you most budgets are set at 15 players for this age group. I am in a fortunate situation because we only have 12 players.

I will say as they get older more subs is important. Injuries take affect. My older daughters team had 16 on roster for 11v11 and had to cancel a tourney because not enough were healthy to play. Lots of injuries at 15-16 age!!

Maybe your coach is building for 11v11 in a year not sure.
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Post by tpitty on 09/01/17, 11:43 am

06 will be 9v9 next year as well. Right?

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Post by 06Southgirl on 09/01/17, 12:35 pm

tpitty wrote:06 will be 9v9 next year as well. Right?

Yes this year and next year roster max at LH is 16 players for 9v9
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Post by tpitty on 09/01/17, 12:40 pm

06southgirl wrote:
Maybe your coach is building for 11v11 in a year not sure.  

So this wouldn't really be accurate for his situation.

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Post by tpitty on 09/01/17, 12:44 pm

bigtex75081 wrote:Is there any action to take...

My DD is an ’06 playing in the 9v9 format.  When we met our DD’s coach, before we signed our contract, the coach and the manager told us they would only sign 12 or 13 players at most.  13 was their limit.  Other families were told this as well.

At the signing party there were 15 players but I didn’t realize this until after signing.  

There are almost no absences for this team.  Player participation is probably 95% or more.  I cannot recall an occasion where we didn’t have at least 5 subs on the sideline.

It now appears another player has just joined the team over the winter.  That brings us to 16 players.  That’s 16 players for a 9-player field.  Our team only has 1 goalkeeper so she plays fulltime.  That means we have 15 players vying for 8 field positions.

Not surprisingly, our DD is limited to 50% of the game no matter how hard she works in practice and on her own.  Sometimes DD is starting, sometimes not.  That wasn’t what we were hoping for when she joined a team that was supposed to only have 12-13 players.  (There are other players on the roster that are getting a worse allocation with less playtime.)

I tend to be a very quiet parent.  I don’t think there’s any action to take at this point.  Is there any action worth taking?  What’s your advice for how we can best handle this situation for our daughter?

If playtime is your issue, then supplement it with indoor, futsal, extra training, etc.

If the coach being misleading is the issue: change teams after your contract is over.
*Make sure that it is your kiddo's issue as well though. Sometimes what mom and dad see, isn't the same as what the kiddo feels. She may be fine with 50% because the training sessions are spot on, and she loves the other kids.


Last edited by tpitty on 09/01/17, 02:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by SocDad on 09/01/17, 12:44 pm

Way to many....... for 9v9 (and entirely way too much at that participation rate)

It's good for the coaches pocket book...but bad for PT for the players.

But...you might wanna hang in there.  If what you say is correct, that there are far more players that get less PT than your child.....then you could wait for them to get fed up and leave (and they are upset..they just may not voice it).
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Need Guidance:  16 players for a 9v9 format Empty Re: Need Guidance: 16 players for a 9v9 format

Post by Lefty on 09/01/17, 02:02 pm

bigtex75081 wrote:Is there any action to take...

My DD is an ’06 playing in the 9v9 format.  When we met our DD’s coach, before we signed our contract, the coach and the manager told us they would only sign 12 or 13 players at most.  13 was their limit.  Other families were told this as well.

At the signing party there were 15 players but I didn’t realize this until after signing.  

There are almost no absences for this team.  Player participation is probably 95% or more.  I cannot recall an occasion where we didn’t have at least 5 subs on the sideline.

It now appears another player has just joined the team over the winter.  That brings us to 16 players.  That’s 16 players for a 9-player field.  Our team only has 1 goalkeeper so she plays fulltime.  That means we have 15 players vying for 8 field positions.

Not surprisingly, our DD is limited to 50% of the game no matter how hard she works in practice and on her own.  Sometimes DD is starting, sometimes not.  That wasn’t what we were hoping for when she joined a team that was supposed to only have 12-13 players.  (There are other players on the roster that are getting a worse allocation with less playtime.)

I tend to be a very quiet parent.  I don’t think there’s any action to take at this point.  Is there any action worth taking?  What’s your advice for how we can best handle this situation for our daughter?

Any communication to the team (players AND parents at this age) regarding adding an additional player?

Maybe, something as simple as 'we will be adding an additional player for xyz purpose' or did they just introduce her at practice and move on?


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Post by Guest on 09/01/17, 02:09 pm

Pay the balance of your dues and then ask for a release.

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Post by 06Southgirl on 09/01/17, 02:15 pm

tpitty wrote:
06southgirl wrote:
Maybe your coach is building for 11v11 in a year not sure.  

So this wouldn't really be accurate for his situation.


For in 18 months
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Post by bigtex75081 on 09/01/17, 02:48 pm

Lefty wrote:
bigtex75081 wrote:Is there any action to take...

My DD is an ’06 playing in the 9v9 format.  When we met our DD’s coach, before we signed our contract, the coach and the manager told us they would only sign 12 or 13 players at most.  13 was their limit.  Other families were told this as well.

At the signing party there were 15 players but I didn’t realize this until after signing.  

There are almost no absences for this team.  Player participation is probably 95% or more.  I cannot recall an occasion where we didn’t have at least 5 subs on the sideline.

It now appears another player has just joined the team over the winter.  That brings us to 16 players.  That’s 16 players for a 9-player field.  Our team only has 1 goalkeeper so she plays fulltime.  That means we have 15 players vying for 8 field positions.

Not surprisingly, our DD is limited to 50% of the game no matter how hard she works in practice and on her own.  Sometimes DD is starting, sometimes not.  That wasn’t what we were hoping for when she joined a team that was supposed to only have 12-13 players.  (There are other players on the roster that are getting a worse allocation with less playtime.)

I tend to be a very quiet parent.  I don’t think there’s any action to take at this point.  Is there any action worth taking?  What’s your advice for how we can best handle this situation for our daughter?

Any communication to the team (players AND parents at this age) regarding adding an additional player?  

Maybe, something as simple as 'we will be adding an additional player for xyz purpose' or did they just introduce her at practice and move on?
I did not see or hear anything about the new addition.  I asked my DD if the player was on the team now.  She said, "Yeah... I guess so... Well I think so... Yes."  The new player now has been attending all practices and is on all team distributions.
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Need Guidance:  16 players for a 9v9 format Empty Re: Need Guidance: 16 players for a 9v9 format

Post by Lefty on 09/01/17, 04:05 pm

bigtex75081 wrote:
Lefty wrote:
bigtex75081 wrote:Is there any action to take...

My DD is an ’06 playing in the 9v9 format.  When we met our DD’s coach, before we signed our contract, the coach and the manager told us they would only sign 12 or 13 players at most.  13 was their limit.  Other families were told this as well.

At the signing party there were 15 players but I didn’t realize this until after signing.  

There are almost no absences for this team.  Player participation is probably 95% or more.  I cannot recall an occasion where we didn’t have at least 5 subs on the sideline.

It now appears another player has just joined the team over the winter.  That brings us to 16 players.  That’s 16 players for a 9-player field.  Our team only has 1 goalkeeper so she plays fulltime.  That means we have 15 players vying for 8 field positions.

Not surprisingly, our DD is limited to 50% of the game no matter how hard she works in practice and on her own.  Sometimes DD is starting, sometimes not.  That wasn’t what we were hoping for when she joined a team that was supposed to only have 12-13 players.  (There are other players on the roster that are getting a worse allocation with less playtime.)

I tend to be a very quiet parent.  I don’t think there’s any action to take at this point.  Is there any action worth taking?  What’s your advice for how we can best handle this situation for our daughter?

Any communication to the team (players AND parents at this age) regarding adding an additional player?  

Maybe, something as simple as 'we will be adding an additional player for xyz purpose' or did they just introduce her at practice and move on?
I did not see or hear anything about the new addition.  I asked my DD if the player was on the team now.  She said, "Yeah... I guess so... Well I think so... Yes."  The new player now has been attending all practices and is on all team distributions.

Well at least you know what kind of a person you are dealing with now:
. Incompetent communicator, lacking social awareness and common courtesy - at best
. Who knows what - at worst

Certainly would be making plans for a different environment for next year.

Only your family can decide the best course of action for the next 5-6 months.

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Post by Triumph FC on 10/01/17, 06:26 pm

So look at the facts
LH's didn't budge on price for U11's but they did cut the playing format from 11 to 9v9. So should coaches now take a pay cut, raise the fees for parents or have clubs cover the deficit? You decide what you think is best
Cut Coaches pay........ most of the good ones won't coach that age group then
Raise parents fees.......... parents complain about the rising cost of select soccer.
Club pay the balance.........so parents complain about the rising cost of select soccer as clubs raise the prices.
The perfect senerio was keep 16 so prices didn't change
I carried 16 on my 03's (now 02's) since U9 and playing time was never a problem for those that earnt it. Never met a coach that wants to lose so I'm guessing your coach thought the new player can help and if that hurts others playing time that's their problem. I'm sure the main contributors on the team won't lose playing time so it comes down to others who some games might be good other games don't even get noticed. If it was my daughter I would tell her if you want playing time go and earn that right, if she can't then maybe it's the wrong team in the wrong division that's not her fault or the coaches fault but having extra players on a roster is not your issue never should be an issue
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Post by soccerjack on 10/01/17, 08:50 pm

Triumph FC wrote:So look at the facts
LH's didn't budge on price for U11's but they did cut the playing format from 11 to 9v9. So should coaches now take a pay cut, raise the fees for parents or have clubs cover the deficit? You decide what you think is best
Cut Coaches pay........ most of the good ones won't coach that age group then
Raise parents fees.......... parents complain about the rising cost of select soccer.
Club pay the balance.........so parents complain about the rising cost of select soccer as clubs raise the prices.
The perfect senerio was keep 16 so prices didn't change
I carried 16 on my 03's (now 02's) since U9 and playing time was never a problem for those that earnt it. Never met a coach that wants to lose so I'm guessing your coach thought the new player can help and if that hurts others playing time that's their problem. I'm sure the main contributors on the team won't lose playing time so it comes down to others who some games might be good other games don't even get noticed. If it was my daughter I would tell her if you want playing time go and earn that right, if she can't then maybe it's the wrong team in the wrong division that's not her fault or the coaches fault but having extra players on a roster is not your issue never should be an issue

Great recruiting post. Show me the money.
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Post by Triumph FC on 10/01/17, 09:07 pm

Yes same as Lake Highlands said. If you come over you might find out we are cheaper than most so yes every penny counts. Just trying to point out why most are trying to get to 16.
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Post by bigtex75081 on 11/01/17, 08:14 am

LH's didn't budge on price for U11's but they did cut the playing format from 11 to 9v9.”  That is a fair and valid point.

I carried 16 on my 03's (now 02's) since U9 and playing time was never a problem for those that earnt it.”  This comment is an apples-to-oranges comparispon.  Your 16 03s played in an 11v11 format.  Those same 16 players today would be playing in a 9v9 format.

16 players with 1 fulltime goalkeeper in 11v11 format for 60 minutes…
• 11 positions * 60 minutes = 660 total minutes in a game.
• 660 minutes – 60 minutes allotted to the 1 fulltime goalkeeper = 600 minutes for the rest of the roster.
• 600 minutes / 15 players = 40 minutes/game.
• 40 minutes of playtime / 60 minutes in a game = 66% Playtime on average.  
• I agree that few families would complain about that allocation.

16 players with 1 fulltime goalkeeper in 9v9 format for 60 minutes…
• 9 positions * 60 minutes = 540 total minutes in a game.
• 540 minutes – 60 minutes allotted to the 1 fulltime goalkeeper = 480 minutes for the rest of the roster.
• 480 minutes / 15 players = 32 minutes/game.
• 32 minutes of playtime / 60 minutes in a game = 53% Playtime on average.  

Are you confident that if you had reduced each of your 03s playtime by 13% that you would have had the same level of satisfied customers?
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Post by Triumph FC on 11/01/17, 08:29 am

I don't know you ask yourself your daughter played on the team. Yes we did play 11v11 at U11 but didn't at U9 and U10 as it was 9v9
I was pointing out why coaches are still trying to get to 16 players. Some of it maybe to balance the books some of it might be because the players aren't getting the job done. If a player is working hard and contributing then playing time would not be an issue regardless of the roster size.
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Need Guidance:  16 players for a 9v9 format Empty Re: Need Guidance: 16 players for a 9v9 format

Post by Lefty on 11/01/17, 08:55 am

Triumph FC wrote:So look at the facts
LH's didn't budge on price for U11's but they did cut the playing format from 11 to 9v9. So should coaches now take a pay cut, raise the fees for parents or have clubs cover the deficit? You decide what you think is best
Cut Coaches pay........ most of the good ones won't coach that age group then
Raise parents fees.......... parents complain about the rising cost of select soccer.
Club pay the balance.........so parents complain about the rising cost of select soccer as clubs raise the prices.
The perfect senerio was keep 16 so prices didn't change
I carried 16 on my 03's (now 02's) since U9 and playing time was never a problem for those that earnt it. Never met a coach that wants to lose so I'm guessing your coach thought the new player can help and if that hurts others playing time that's their problem. I'm sure the main contributors on the team won't lose playing time so it comes down to others who some games might be good other games don't even get noticed. If it was my daughter I would tell her if you want playing time go and earn that right, if she can't then maybe it's the wrong team in the wrong division that's not her fault or the coaches fault but having extra players on a roster is not your issue never should be an issue

Funny me. Thought this post was about the integrity, truthfulness and communication of the coach.

Can't argue with any of your points but they are not relevant IF the coach communicated they were only going to sign a limited number of players regardless of what the limit was.

Do you have a view on the coaches behavior in regard in that topic?

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Post by Ehlodog on 11/01/17, 08:58 am

Coach might also keep 16 depending if there any scholarshiped players. The economics of a team for the coach with 1 or 2 scholarships might necessitate carrying more to cover the $$.

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Post by tpitty on 11/01/17, 09:05 am

Lots of issues here, but focusing on the ones the are most relevant as a parent/player.

Coach said one thing and is doing another thing. --You must decide as a parent if you are okay with this. If not, start scouting teams, and coaches for a change after the season is over.

Current Playing time. -- As I mentioned earlier, find an additional means of play time until the season is over. Then decide if you need to make a change.

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Post by Guest on 11/01/17, 09:13 am

tpitty wrote:
Coach said one thing and is doing another thing. --You must decide as a parent if you are okay with this. If not, start scouting teams, and coaches for a change after the season is over.

+1

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Post by Triumph FC on 11/01/17, 09:15 am

Absolutely I think it's disgusting if a coach said we will sign 12 now had 16!
Don't know all the circumstances thoughmost coaches weren't sure if LH were going to lower the permitted players needed to play, the league fees etc. I understand why they could have been some confusion and frustration from parents because it may seem like they just said 12 to get everyone to sign and that is not good ethics
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Post by Guest on 11/01/17, 09:18 am

Ehlodog wrote:Coach might also keep 16 depending if there any scholarshiped players. The economics of a team for the coach with 1 or 2 scholarships might necessitate carrying more to cover the $$.

I like how somebody created a new ID to post this. affraid

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Post by bigtex75081 on 11/01/17, 09:28 am

To be honest, as their customer, I don't care about the coach's and club's economics.  That's their issue to resolve internally.  Externally, they need to make certain I am a satisfied customer.

Playtime during games does matter to my DD.  She openly vents about her limited playtime after games.  The 16-player roster is an issue for us because of the 9v9 format.  I do not think we would have this same issue if the same 16-player roster was in an 11v11 format.  She wants 90%-100% playtime but that’s not realistic because of the numbers I noted above.

We face the 9v9 format again in u12.  We will not sign with a coach that is willing to sign more than 14 players.  Hopefully that coach will be honest from the onset and stick to the commitment.

The coach recruiting her under one commitment and then changing that, to me, was a bait-and-switch.  It doesn’t appear though, based on the responses, that there’s much we can do about it now.  We just have to plan for the future and count this as a lesson-learned.  We’ll ride out the remainder of the contract and begin looking around at options for next year.  Potentially look for guest playing opportunities as the Spring season winds down.  Possibly add indoor and futsal as a supplement.


Last edited by bigtex75081 on 11/01/17, 09:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Lefty on 11/01/17, 09:28 am

Triumph FC wrote:I don't know you ask yourself your daughter played on the team. Yes we did play 11v11 at U11 but didn't at U9 and U10 as it was 9v9
I was pointing out why coaches are still trying to get to 16 players. Some of it maybe to balance the books  $$$some of it might be because the players aren't getting the job done WINS. If a player is working hard and contributing then playing time would not be an issue regardless of the roster size.

Coach and Club Leader, thanks for the great summary of the insight and how coaches and club view things.

Often takes new parents a while to sift through all the rhetoric and sales pitches to understand the coaches are about TEAM, $$$, WINS and players are a vehicle to help them get there.  

Nothing wrong with that, as the clubs and coaches are in business.  Just don't confuse that with loyalty to players as coaches, like most people, typically act in their OWN BEST INTEREST.


Last edited by Lefty on 11/01/17, 09:33 am; edited 2 times in total

Lefty
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