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Out of town tournaments concern

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Out of town tournaments concern

Post by PowerKick on 19/01/17, 11:50 am

Out of town tournaments, is it really worth it? do you really like it?

For a family has 2 kids like me, I have to raise this concern to all coaches and decision makers. It is a big burden to working families, many of us don't like it. Each time I have to spend $1500 minimum, $2500 easily, not considering the time off or school absence.

It is good if your team cannot find competition locally. It is good for the top 2 teams to represent NTX. However for other teams, can you find enough competition here? Why waste money and time go to places like Tulsa or Arizona, just for trophies hunting? I don't get it.

Coaches and Managers, please consider many of us families trying to save any penny to support the teams. Out of town tournaments are not worth, we hate it. A few ass-kissers do not represent most of the parents.

And why out of town in such a young age when they are just U10, U11, and U12?

Coach, I love to donate from bottom of my heart if you need a vacation, you deserve it with your hard work. But please please don't drag the whole team in. We can use that money to attend more of your camps, not matter how high you will charge.

Thank for your consideration.

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Re: Out of town tournaments concern

Post by TatonkaBurger on 19/01/17, 12:28 pm

Someone needed to post this.  And you are right on.

Glad I did not have to go but I would not have if my DD was playing Silver or Bronze.  I'd rather spend that money going to the islands on Spring Break or this summer.
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Re: Out of town tournaments concern

Post by Guest on 19/01/17, 12:45 pm

I'm excited about the potential for DA to reduce the cost, but it's an expensive road to make it that far.

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Re: Out of town tournaments concern

Post by Uwon't on 19/01/17, 01:17 pm

First option, don't go, no coach can Dribble you to do so. If you are scared of the coach, come up with some lame excuse. If Arizona, you are allergic to cacti. Maybe you have already planned a trip to the islands or you will be climbing Mount Everest at the same time. Second option, parlay into a extended vacation. Go early or stay longer. Either way stop being a passenger and start driving.

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Re: Out of town tournaments concern

Post by Zizou on 19/01/17, 01:52 pm

My recommendation is the have your child travel with the manager or a friends family. Reducing cost may mean that the entire family does not go and one parent will need to stay behind to supervise. Yes tournaments and travel can be difficult but to not travel because of one person is not fair to ones that may want to travel. Tournament schedules are usually decided before you signed on with the team. If it was okay at signing then maybe you should think about resigning with this team that travels.


Last edited by Zizou on 19/01/17, 01:54 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Out of town tournaments concern

Post by 08keepermom on 19/01/17, 01:53 pm

I think 1-2 tournaments within reasonable driving distance (300-500 miles) is acceptable for gold/platinum level teams, even at the u9/u10 age. My family of 4 just got back from a hockey tournament that was 300 miles away and our MAX cost was $800, even driving my 4x4 gas guzzler and eating out as a team. The kids had so much more fun at this tournament then they do at local ones. Plus, it's fun to play teams that you have never seen before.

I do think it is a reasonable expectation for coaches to let parents know if they are looking at travel tournaments so they can make an informed decision of where their kids play. I also appreciate that our coaches request individual responses (no reply to all) on tournament availability and then simply tell us yes/no whether or not there was enough interest. He won't sign us up for a tournament unless he has enough players committed. And yes, we have had players opt not to go, and everyone is ok with that.

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Re: Out of town tournaments concern

Post by Bodhisattva on 19/01/17, 02:05 pm

There is always REC....

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Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true.
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Re: Out of town tournaments concern

Post by Guest on 19/01/17, 03:29 pm

Fortunately or unfortunately, your viewpoint on this subject is likely related to your economic standing.

From a soccer standpoint, is it necessary?  Outside of the top 2-3 teams in the age group in NTX, probably not.

From a personal growth and development standpoint for young women, is traveling in a team environment valuable?  Absolutely.  

Many girls beyond just the top 2-3 teams in the age group will go on to play soccer in college, and knowing and understanding how to handle travel in a team environment and how it relates to being prepared to play and perform well is valuable.

Then, there is the huge intangible of life experience and memories.  Pretty sure that my DD will never forget when her team took a team photo sitting on top of Hoover Dam, or when her entire team jumped in Lake Michigan in full uniform after a game for an impromptu ice bath, or later that evening when she got to down on the field after an NWSL game and meet and get her picture taken with Erin McCleod, or getting to see the College Cup Semis and Finals last year.  Not to mention getting to go sightseeing with her Mom in Vegas and Chicago, and getting to tour the campus at Duke.

All of those had a cost (which we were blessed to be able to afford), but I don't think I could put a value on the experiences or a price on the memories that my DD gained from those trips.

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Re: Out of town tournaments concern

Post by PowerKick on 19/01/17, 04:04 pm

BW, you made very valuable points, every one of them. I agree not all of the families feeling the pain of the hope cost. I just hope the coaches could think for the others.

However I am questioning for a non top 2 team, 2~3 out of town tournaments per year at young age like 10.

Last year alone we had 5 this kind of tournaments with 2 kids, none of them had the whole family together since they were beyond our budget. I would rather put the money to a good family vacation, or save the money for more travels when they reach U15.

I'd totally support 1 tournament for top competition such as Surf, where we can also have a nice vacation around there.

Thank you so much for your input.

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Re: Out of town tournaments concern

Post by Guest on 19/01/17, 04:55 pm

Hey, believe me, I get it. I was just bringing a little different viewpoint into the conversation.

Not all teams in NTX travel like yours.

My DD is U16 now and has been on the same team since U9. Her team has been in the 10-15 range in DFW in her age group for most of that time. U12 was the first time the team ever traveled out of DFW for a tournament, and U13 was the first time they got on a plane. From U13-U15, it was 1 plane trip a year, and 1-2 road trips (Austin, Houston, SA, OK, ...). Team also did fundraising to offset costs. This year has been a significant jump in travel as the team is now playing composite/TCL, but the kids are now in the recruiting funnel, so the increased travel has made some degree of sense.

The point being, not every "good" team does what yours is doing, and living in DFW, you have A LOT more choice than most other people in the country.

I've been at out-of-town tournaments with my kids in multiple sports and talked to parents from other travel teams from less densely populated areas who constantly lament about having to travel a minimum of 3-4 hours once or twice a month in order to get decent competition.

If the travel cost is that big of a deal, and you can't change the coach/parent mindset, there's a good chance you'd be able to find a team that travels much less, but is still competitive. The question is, whether you are willing to make any tradeoffs that would come with that.

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Re: Out of town tournaments concern

Post by Marvelousmar on 20/01/17, 07:51 am

I think most coaches think about the cost as they make decisions.  They also try to have the idea of travel tourneys from  the get go and communicate idea to the team.  BW hit it on the head.  Life experiences are the real value.  Our roster is 19 we took  11 if our players and 3 guests to vegas.  conflicts occur school soccer finances injury.  But for the 11 girls in this team that never had been to Vegas I have a hunch 10 years or 20 years from now they will remember the trip and the stories that came out of it.  More than any game they played in all their select career.  The late night talks and the relationship buidling they don't get playing in their phones at home.  I think this side will be beter for the trip.
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Re: Out of town tournaments concern

Post by HomeStretch on 20/01/17, 09:18 am

Marvelousmar wrote:I think most coaches think about the cost as they make decisions.  They also try to have the idea of travel tourneys from  the get go and communicate idea to the team.  BW hit it on the head.  Life experiences are the real value.  Our roster is 19 we took  11 if our players and 3 guests to vegas.  conflicts occur school soccer finances injury.  But for the 11 girls in this team that never had been to Vegas I have a hunch 10 years or 20 years from now they will remember the trip and the stories that came out of it.  More than any game they played in all their select career.  The late night talks and the relationship buidling they don't get playing in their phones at home.  I think this side will be beter for the trip.

Yes the memories and experiences are valuable. You and BW arent responding to the OP's concerns though, which are about the # and cost of these trips starting at younger and younger ages...i.e. u10.

By the time kids in those type programs get to u17, they've been on 20 or 30 such trips and seen both coasts many, many times. Your group and BW's group starting major travel at older ages isnt the issue. Its great fun and exciting for first time parents at u10, but once parents go all the way through the realization sets in that the early age travel was wasteful. It doesn't matter what your economic situation is. Most can recognize the impact it has to other families if not their own.

This also goes down as one of the reasons NTX falls off in older age groups. Many top players are burnt out from soccer at u17 because they've been canvassing the country 4 or 5 times a year since u9. Notice you rarely ever see any midwest or east coast teams showing up at u10 tourneys in socal...yet those areas are still powers when it gets to the recruiting years.

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Re: Out of town tournaments concern

Post by Guest on 20/01/17, 09:46 am

HomeStretch wrote:
Marvelousmar wrote:I think most coaches think about the cost as they make decisions.  They also try to have the idea of travel tourneys from  the get go and communicate idea to the team.  BW hit it on the head.  Life experiences are the real value.  Our roster is 19 we took  11 if our players and 3 guests to vegas.  conflicts occur school soccer finances injury.  But for the 11 girls in this team that never had been to Vegas I have a hunch 10 years or 20 years from now they will remember the trip and the stories that came out of it.  More than any game they played in all their select career.  The late night talks and the relationship buidling they don't get playing in their phones at home.  I think this side will be beter for the trip.

Yes the memories and experiences are valuable. You and BW arent responding to the OP's concerns though, which are about the # and cost of these trips starting at younger and younger ages...i.e. u10.

By the time kids in those type programs get to u17, they've been on 20 or 30 such trips and seen both coasts many, many times. Your group and BW's group starting major travel at older ages isnt the issue. Its great fun and exciting for first time parents at u10, but once parents go all the way through the realization sets in that the early age travel was wasteful. It doesn't matter what your economic situation is. Most can recognize the impact it has to other families if not their own.

This also goes down as one of the reasons NTX falls off in older age groups. Many top players are burnt out from soccer at u17 because they've been canvassing the country 4 or 5 times a year since u9. Notice you rarely ever see any midwest or east coast teams showing up at u10 tourneys in socal...yet those areas are still powers when it gets to the recruiting years.

I disagree, in my second post, I DID address the OP's original concerns. I pointed out that there are many good teams in NTX that do NOT do the kind of travel that the OP's team is doing at U10, and that living in NTX, he is actually far more fortunate than many other parts of the country because he has CHOICES. He is certainly within his rights to try and change the mindset of the coach and parents on his DD's current team regarding travel, but if he can't, I guarantee you there are multiple other quality options to consider. There are probably some tradeoffs in making that choice, but the choices are there.

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Re: Out of town tournaments concern

Post by HomeStretch on 20/01/17, 11:45 am

By trade-offs you likely mean moving to a team with less committed teammates, or coaches or both. In a market like NTX, those tradeoffs shouldn't be required.

A much better solution would be for clubs to be more responsible in managing costs for these families as they move from ulittle ages through to graduating high school. Of course that would require some adults make less money off tournament hosting fees and hotel commissions, but if Michigan and NY and Florida can resist, don't see why NTX can't do the same.

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Re: Out of town tournaments concern

Post by Guest on 20/01/17, 12:54 pm

I'm with BW. There are choices. I also agree that there shouldn't have to be, but such is reality. So make your choices. On the other hand , it is true from personal experience that not all coaches are up front with intended travel and therefore, total costs.

just be sure to ask. Then at least when they change their mind, you can call "pants on fire."

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Re: Out of town tournaments concern

Post by Guest on 20/01/17, 11:58 pm

HomeStretch wrote:By trade-offs you likely mean moving to a team with less committed teammates, or coaches or both. In a market like NTX, those tradeoffs shouldn't be required.

A much better solution would be for clubs to be more responsible in managing costs for these families as they move from ulittle ages through to graduating high school. Of course that would require some adults make less money off tournament hosting fees and hotel commissions, but if Michigan and NY and Florida can resist, don't see why NTX can't do the same.

There are any number of things that could be considered trade-offs. What you mentioned is a possible tradeoff, but isn't necessarily so.

It could be something as simple as your DD having to breakaway from some close friends on her current team.
It could mean going to a team who's practice schedule/location isn't as convenient as her current team.
It could mean leaving a coach you/your DD really like and are comfortable with.
It could mean having to go to a team a few spots further down the league standings. Just because their record isn't as good, doesn't necessarily mean the girls and/or coaches are less committed.
It could mean having to trade in a more prestigious window sticker for a less prestigious window sticker... again, doesn't necessarily mean the girls and/or coaches are less committed. (It could mean the opposite as well, maybe you're with a small club/indy and your only other viable option is an ECNL club)

Life is making choices. Often, those choices aren't clear cut, and you have to weigh the pros and cons of different options to make the best choice.

I bet if you went to Tulsa, or Lubbock, or Nebraska, you'd be lamenting the lack of quality options and choices that you do have here in DFW...

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Re: Out of town tournaments concern

Post by DDdad on 21/01/17, 08:48 am

I think Gophers covered this to some extent but I did ask the question as my then U11 DD was in Vegas. We were, at the time, the number 4 team in the Club and while we were competitive, we certainly could find competition locally. Why are we here?
"You are here because you play for XXXX. At some point, you are expected to compete for a National Title (we eventually did). Most opportunities in soccer do not originate in NT. When your DD gets to be older, she will travel for Regionals, Nationals, ODP, Showcase Events, ECNL etc etc. Consider this training for those times. If you look at my XX team, they are all business when they get off the plane. They have "been there, done that." and this is a business trip for them. They have seen the lights in Vegas, been to the beaches in SoCal etc. They are there to play soccer and it shows. Look at our girls now. They are all wide eyed and shocked to be out of Dallas. Mesmerized by the lights of Vegas. They will be overwhelmed as we play Surf, Slammers etc. But in a year or two, they will be ready to play out of town teams in out of town locations.
Yes, it seems silly to travel but he was correct. Your DD will play in showcases out of town, against Name teams that can be intimidating the first time (PDA, Slammers, Eclipse etc), they will hopefully play at Regionals, Nationals, ECNL, National League etc and to perform well, it does help to have travel experience. Let them run the halls as maniacs at U9 but at U13, it won't be their first time. My DD has been out of town more times than I can count at U18 now but the travel has been great for her for all the reasons mentioned by Gophers. My pocket book is not better but as far as developing a young lady. Check.
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Re: Out of town tournaments concern

Post by HomeStretch on 21/01/17, 10:34 am

Not really. If I lived in Nebraska, and I was interested my kid competing on a super team that tested its mettle against the best in the country, I would accept the fact I needed to eat substantial costs for travel.

If I was in Tulsa, and my club was regularly flying to socal and vegas for u10, I would wonder why we aren't driving to DFW instead.

This hyper-individualist thinking, whereby we only care about our own families, leads to the market getting out of kilter.

My kid is a few years from being done with the club journey, and (so far) I can look back and say all our major soccer decisions have panned out incredibly well.

When she was u10 she played for one of the big 4. Her coach was experienced sending kids all the way through. When parents asked about travel tournaments, he flat told the team he and his leadership didn't see the need for national travel at that age.
I remember he clearly stated there will be plenty of time for it as the girls get older. This was considered the top team and top coach at age for said club. I don't recall seeing many of the big 4 flying teams to national tournaments pre-select. I think Texans used to send u11s to surf, but it definitely was the exception and not the norm.

Fast foward to today, I see multiple clubs now flying kids around to pre-select national tournaments. Not only top teams, but mid-tier and lower teams as well.

So what happens when eventually it becomes the standard, instead of the exception, and tulsa can't drive to DFW for great comp because the best (and the pretty good) in DFW are flying out to a coast for travel tournament?...lol. It's insanity.

New parents with first kid going through probably have no idea of the travel requirements coming if their kid ends up on the recruiting trail in 5 years.

How many KNOW that competing in a travel tournament at 8 is a great experience, but one that kids who stick with it may have 40 or more times by the time they're done. How many first timers KNOW they'd likely get better pay off putting money towards skills development and training vs flying around the country winning trophies at u10?

It's letting the clubs off the hook saying parents should just make better choices. I get most parents only care about their own, but leaders at the club level should be thinking at a higher level, and evaluating how these trends broadly impact players, familes and NTX soccer as a whole.



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Re: Out of town tournaments concern

Post by Guest on 21/01/17, 10:48 am

HomeStretch wrote:

It's letting the clubs off the hook saying parents should just make better choices. I get most parents only care about their own, but leaders at the club level should be thinking at a higher level, and evaluating how these trends broadly impact players, familes and NTX soccer as a whole.



lol!

The best way to put the clubs on the hook is for parents to make better choices. The problem is too many parents are afraid to stand and up and actually be parents for their kids in order to make better choices for them...

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Re: Out of town tournaments concern

Post by HomeStretch on 21/01/17, 11:08 am

bwgophers wrote:
HomeStretch wrote:

It's letting the clubs off the hook saying parents should just make better choices. I get most parents only care about their own, but leaders at the club level should be thinking at a higher level, and evaluating how these trends broadly impact players, familes and NTX soccer as a whole.



lol!

The best way to put the clubs on the hook is for parents to make better choices.  The problem is too many parents are afraid to stand and up and actually be parents for their kids in order to make better choices for them...

I agree we have a lot of follow the leader and keep with the jones mentality in our market. It's just hard to see where new parents could get plain truth info to make better choices. Where do they get it? Unless they have kids who've been through it before, or someone trusted they've talked to who does, impossible for them to have a good picture of what's what. The most reliable info sources for most first timers are coaches and club leadership. Even on the forum, we rarely see parents whose kids have aged out coming back to give insight/hindsight on what's worked in the process.

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