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LH and JDL?

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LH and JDL?

Post by ForReal on 23/02/17, 11:23 am

I received an email from US Club Soccer, where they linked to US Soccer's Player Development Initiatives updated in February 2017.  For 9v9, they have recommended "training-to-game ratio of 2-3 training sessions per game played" and that "players should participate in no more than 30 games per calendar year and in no more than one game per day."  They also say "players should have a minimum of 2 rest days per week during the season along with planned breaks from organized soccer during the calendar year."

Looking at teams in the 06 world that were both JDL and LH, there's simply no way teams in both leagues can meet these recommendations.  

Not to single any team out (they are all probably quite similar), but I looked at DTS 06 as an example.  Since August 2016, they have played in 45 games (http://youthsoccerrankings.us/team.html?teamId=1935250).  They have 16 more league games to play before the end of April.  Add state cup and another tournament or two, these girls will end up playing probably 70 games before July.  70 games in 10 months.  

Do the math.  At 2.5 training sessions per game recommended, they would have to train 175 times in 10 months.  

Obviously they are a great team, but here are the questions:

1.  When will these girls burn out?

2.  Shouldn't the top teams just play in JDL? By my count, JDL, plus its Pre-ECNL tournaments and other tournaments, these girls would still play 50 games in 10 months without also being in LH.  Isn't that enough?

3.  Should LH refuse to allow JDL teams to also play in LH?  

4.  Should the JDL Clubs refuse to allow their JDL teams to play in LH?

Interested to hear your thoughts - particularly from the parents who have now done both.

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Re: LH and JDL?

Post by boilerjoe_96 on 23/02/17, 11:31 am

It appears from postings on here that nearly all, if not all 07 JDL teams will play both next year. So wont just be a select few teams.
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Re: LH and JDL?

Post by tpitty on 23/02/17, 11:31 am

1. Sooner rather than later, overuse injuries as well.
2. Yes, but new over zealous soccer parents don't understand yet.
3. No, they are a business. They are not a babysitter service.
4. See #3. Clubs are giving the parents what they want.
4+ I think having a few kids playing on both mixed throughout the year isn't a bad idea. As long as it isn't constant.

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Re: LH and JDL?

Post by ForReal on 23/02/17, 11:38 am

tpitty wrote:1. Sooner rather than later, overuse injuries as well.
2. Yes, but new over zealous soccer parents don't understand yet.
3. No, they are a business. They are not a babysitter service.
4. See #3. Clubs are giving the parents what they want.
4+ I think having a few kids playing on both mixed throughout the year isn't a bad idea. As long as it isn't constant.

Tend to agree with most of what you say, except No. 4.  Shouldn't the clubs step in and say "one or the other"?  Incidentally, this made me think about the oft-repeated reply by some that JDL is "all about the money."  Unless teams playing in JDL and LH are paying more than the other select teams in the clubs, then the clubs are making less money on those teams playing in both as they have to pay both league fees.

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Re: LH and JDL?

Post by Sho'Nuff on 23/02/17, 12:43 pm

tpitty wrote:
2. Yes, but new over zealous soccer parents don't understand yet.

If LH didn't have byes, teams wouldn't play in both. The byes protect the coaches income in case JDL falls through. For satellite coaches, they need the bye for when they lose top players to ECNL/DA.

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Re: LH and JDL?

Post by Switchfoot on 23/02/17, 12:50 pm

Arguably a top team which plays in 2-4 tournaments a year and only one league could potentially exceed the 30 games per year recommendation not to mention the more than one game per day recommendation.

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Re: LH and JDL?

Post by ForReal on 23/02/17, 12:55 pm

Switchfoot wrote:Arguably a top team which plays in 2-4 tournaments a year and only one league could potentially exceed the 30 games per year recommendation not to mention the more than one game per day recommendation.

Yea, not claiming 30 is realistic (or more than one in a day), but that doesn't mean you should play 60+.

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Re: LH and JDL?

Post by Soccerchat on 23/02/17, 01:01 pm

The same idiots schedule three 11v11s within 7-8 hours in Tments .
ForReal wrote:I received an email from US Club Soccer, where they linked to US Soccer's Player Development Initiatives updated in February 2017.  For 9v9, they have recommended "training-to-game ratio of 2-3 training sessions per game played" and that "players should participate in no more than 30 games per calendar year and in no more than one game per day."  They also say "players should have a minimum of 2 rest days per week during the season along with planned breaks from organized soccer during the calendar year."

Looking at teams in the 06 world that were both JDL and LH, there's simply no way teams in both leagues can meet these recommendations.  

Not to single any team out (they are all probably quite similar), but I looked at DTS 06 as an example.  Since August 2016, they have played in 45 games (http://youthsoccerrankings.us/team.html?teamId=1935250).  They have 16 more league games to play before the end of April.  Add state cup and another tournament or two, these girls will end up playing probably 70 games before July.  70 games in 10 months.  

Do the math.  At 2.5 training sessions per game recommended, they would have to train 175 times in 10 months.  

Obviously they are a great team, but here are the questions:

1.  When will these girls burn out?

2.  Shouldn't the top teams just play in JDL? By my count, JDL, plus its Pre-ECNL tournaments and other tournaments, these girls would still play 50 games in 10 months without also being in LH.  Isn't that enough?

3.  Should LH refuse to allow JDL teams to also play in LH?  

4.  Should the JDL Clubs refuse to allow their JDL teams to play in LH?

Interested to hear your thoughts - particularly from the parents who have now done both.

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Re: LH and JDL?

Post by PowerKick on 23/02/17, 02:07 pm

Haha, just heard another parent complained the other day that currently their team is playing 3 leagues, and for the past month and the next two months, there are 3 games each weeks. Crazy !

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Re: LH and JDL?

Post by Uwon't on 23/02/17, 04:30 pm

Sho'Nuff wrote:
tpitty wrote:
2. Yes, but new over zealous soccer parents don't understand yet.

If LH didn't have byes, teams wouldn't play in both.  The byes protect the coaches income in case JDL falls through.  For satellite coaches, they need the bye for when they lose top players to ECNL/DA.

I would have guessed they play both to be able to play in state cup at the younger ages, 04,05 and 06's. Although I'm not sure at what point state and national titles become important to the clubs.

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Re: LH and JDL?

Post by ForReal on 23/02/17, 04:35 pm

Uwon't wrote:
Sho'Nuff wrote:
tpitty wrote:
2. Yes, but new over zealous soccer parents don't understand yet.

If LH didn't have byes, teams wouldn't play in both.  The byes protect the coaches income in case JDL falls through.  For satellite coaches, they need the bye for when they lose top players to ECNL/DA.

I would have guessed they play both to be able to play in state cup at the younger ages, 04,05 and 06's. Although I'm not sure at what point state and national titles become important to the clubs.

Sure, I think that is a reason.  Not sure it's reason enough to play an extra 19 league games - particularly since U11 and U12 don't advance to regionals.

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Re: LH and JDL?

Post by 07soccerdad on 23/02/17, 04:48 pm

Would be interested in seeing some metrics and/or results of a study as it relates to "burnout" and the amount of soccer one plays as a youth. My DD and her team play a TON (way more than the noted amount in the post above), yet they all love everything about it - not just the soccer, but the time spent with their friends as well. Same in other parts of the world..kids play every day..not because they have to, but because they love it and it's part of their culture

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Re: LH and JDL?

Post by Lakedad on 23/02/17, 05:19 pm

Sho'Nuff wrote:
tpitty wrote:
2. Yes, but new over zealous soccer parents don't understand yet.

If LH didn't have byes, teams wouldn't play in both.  The byes protect the coaches income in case JDL falls through.  For satellite coaches, they need the bye for when they lose top players to ECNL/DA.

LH will centralize the locations for games next season, and ECNL teams will be more inclusive of non-ecnl teams. Certainly, I can see FDS, Solar, Sting and DT using the 2 team byes to promote the ECNL program and the DA program as they work to setup the structure for both.

Sure, DT says it's out of JDl, but once the game location isn't located in Arkansas, they'll come back. Rumor is, clubs from Oklahoma and South Texas are interested in playing as well. Logistically, gotta question how that would work, but could make for an interesting year starting this fall.
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Re: LH and JDL?

Post by ForReal on 23/02/17, 05:22 pm

07soccerdad wrote:Would be interested in seeing some metrics and/or results of a study as it relates to "burnout" and the amount of soccer one plays as a youth. My DD and her team play a TON (way more than the noted amount in the post above), yet they all love everything about it - not just the soccer, but the time spent with their friends as well. Same in other parts of the world..kids play every day..not because they have to, but because they love it and it's part of their culture

Things will change as they grow older unless the right balance is struck.  I don't have the sources, but I've read that 70% of kids will quit organized sports by age 13.  Obviously, it's not that large a number with competitive soccer, but burnout is a real factor.  As they grow older, it becomes less fun, they gain other interests, suffer injuries, etc.  They love everything about it now and hopefully will continue to do so.  But they can do it without playing so many games.

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Re: LH and JDL?

Post by PLAY2FEET!! on 23/02/17, 05:22 pm

07soccerdad wrote:Would be interested in seeing some metrics and/or results of a study as it relates to "burnout" and the amount of soccer one plays as a youth. My DD and her team play a TON (way more than the noted amount in the post above), yet they all love everything about it - not just the soccer, but the time spent with their friends as well. Same in other parts of the world..kids play every day..not because they have to, but because they love it and it's part of their culture
cheers
You hear soo much on this site about burnout, but does it really come from playing too many games?
Perhaps the kid just doesn't love the sport enough to want to continue. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But if playing too many games is the sole reason kids "burnout" from a sport, then why doesn't the same thing happen in let's just say basketball or volleyball? They play games and tournaments just as much if not more than soccer.
Overuse injuries yes, that's a separate topic. But burnout?
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Re: LH and JDL?

Post by Lakedad on 23/02/17, 05:27 pm

SWINGIT!! wrote:
07soccerdad wrote:Would be interested in seeing some metrics and/or results of a study as it relates to "burnout" and the amount of soccer one plays as a youth. My DD and her team play a TON (way more than the noted amount in the post above), yet they all love everything about it - not just the soccer, but the time spent with their friends as well. Same in other parts of the world..kids play every day..not because they have to, but because they love it and it's part of their culture
cheers
You hear soo much on this site about burnout, but does it really come from playing too many games?
Perhaps the kid just doesn't love the sport enough to want to continue. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But if playing too many games is the sole reason kids "burnout" from a sport, then why doesn't the same thing happen in let's just say basketball or volleyball? They play games and tournaments just as much if not more than soccer.
Overuse injuries yes, that's a separate topic. But burnout?

Real question is: Who gets burned out faster, kids or parents?
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Re: LH and JDL?

Post by jogobonito06 on 23/02/17, 05:35 pm

Overuse injuries and burnout are two ENTIRELY different issues. I agree that the number of games played has little to nothing to do with the burnout issue.

It becomes hard to separate the two however, because the parent(s) who are most likely to cause burnout are often the same ones pushing soccer 24/7.
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Re: LH and JDL?

Post by ForReal on 23/02/17, 05:52 pm

jogobonito06 wrote:Overuse injuries and burnout are two ENTIRELY different issues.  I agree that the number of games played has little to nothing to do with the burnout issue.

It becomes hard to separate the two however, because the parent(s) who are most likely to cause burnout are often the same ones pushing soccer 24/7.

This discussion turned to burnout in part because I asked about it. But I think the bigger picture is the philosophy of the ratio of training to games. You play the games for fun, sure (why else would we and our DDs do all this?), but I think all would agree that players develop more in training than in games. So, instead of playing 30 of those 70 games, replace them with 15 training sessions. And dial it all down a bit and just play one league.

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Re: LH and JDL?

Post by PLAY2FEET!! on 23/02/17, 06:42 pm

Lakedad wrote:
SWINGIT!! wrote:
07soccerdad wrote:Would be interested in seeing some metrics and/or results of a study as it relates to "burnout" and the amount of soccer one plays as a youth. My DD and her team play a TON (way more than the noted amount in the post above), yet they all love everything about it - not just the soccer, but the time spent with their friends as well. Same in other parts of the world..kids play every day..not because they have to, but because they love it and it's part of their culture
cheers
You hear soo much on this site about burnout, but does it really come from playing too many games?
Perhaps the kid just doesn't love the sport enough to want to continue. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But if playing too many games is the sole reason kids "burnout" from a sport, then why doesn't the same thing happen in let's just say basketball or volleyball? They play games and tournaments just as much if not more than soccer.
Overuse injuries yes, that's a separate topic. But burnout?

Real question is: Who gets burned out faster, kids or parents?  
Parents-
I know I burnout at least 3-4 times during each contract season. Razz
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