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DA, ECNL, LH Solution

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by ForReal on Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:35 am

BigErn wrote:
ForReal wrote:
BigErn wrote:
FoReal -- I can't seem to recall ... please remind me of what I've been "flat out wrong" about again.

A few posts of yours from last summer:

BigErn wrote:There won't be any JDL teams qualifying or playing at LH D1.

BigErn wrote:
AtThePitch wrote:Completely inorrect bigern Completeincorrect

Comical.

As I mentioned, LH is the 'League'. JDL, D1, D2, D3 are 'Divisions'.  None of the JDL division teams will be playing in D1.  For each team from last year that have a bye this year in D1-D3 within the ECNL clubs, that bye will go to another team within that club to use (i.e. last year's FCD Elite D1 team bye now goes to the 3rd team at the club).  

So yes ... D1 will be watered down.

I accept your apology in advance. Thanks Laughing

Thanks for teeing this one up for me FoReal --

Butt hurt? ... For this?  C'mon now guys.  

You actually just wrote, "so often flat out wrong" ...  I'd be more upset if I was you when I wasted and hour of my time going back through 500+ posts to find 1 item which, by the way, came directly from the horse's mouth at that time and happened in 04s for all but two teams (this has already been discussed dozens of times when discussing JDL since).  It wasn't speculation and is exactly as the JDL was (and still is) outlined.  

And why would you include the, "So yes ... D1 will be watered down." comment?  No doubt this is the absolutely true and will continue to be at U13+ ...

Well done Sir Very Happy

I didn't call you butt hurt.  Nor did I spend a long time going through your posts.  I knew you were wrong then and I remembered your posts about the subject.  So I've taken all of your posts with a grain of salt since.  In any event, regardless of your source then, you were wrong.  But where might I find this JDL "outline"?

I included the "watered down" comment because it was part of the same paragraph.  And, of course, nobody disagrees that DI would be watered down.  That was quite the brilliant comment you made.  

Just accept that you were wrong about teams playing both JDL and LH.

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by Big Ern on Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:41 am

wazup wrote:
ForReal wrote:
BigErn wrote:
FoReal -- I can't seem to recall ... please remind me of what I've been "flat out wrong" about again.

A few posts of yours from last summer:

BigErn wrote:There won't be any JDL teams qualifying or playing at LH D1.

BigErn wrote:
AtThePitch wrote:Completely inorrect bigern Completeincorrect

Comical.

As I mentioned, LH is the 'League'. JDL, D1, D2, D3 are 'Divisions'.  None of the JDL division teams will be playing in D1.  For each team from last year that have a bye this year in D1-D3 within the ECNL clubs, that bye will go to another team within that club to use (i.e. last year's FCD Elite D1 team bye now goes to the 3rd team at the club).  


So yes ... D1 will be watered down.

I accept your apology in advance. Thanks Laughing

And if there were separate "divisions", then CPP rules would apply to girls "loaned" from JDL teams to DI teams.  (It wasn't LHGCL that made the decisions - the DOCs wanted to make sure they protected their DI byes.  See Solar, Sting and FCD 04 all using JDL players "dual-rostered" or added to the DI roster late in the season - some to try and secure their DI slot they would otherwise lose.)

But I'm sure that's all in the best interest of the players - not the clubs.  Rolling Eyes

Wazup wazup --

You are doing a helluva job making this thread a blast! We'd all love to know how you know who did or did not make the decisions at the inception of the JDL.

And please tell us know more about the 04 JDL FCD Red/Blue or Solar CP players (zip) that have been "loaned" to 04 LH D1 teams ... good times!

Again ... after U12, the bigs at the bigs do not care about LHGCL -- it very literally is an afterthought.

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by wazup on Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:08 am

Good attempt at a deflection

I spoke to someone who was at the meeting where the clubs decided to exclude Kicks.

I have seen FCD Blue players playing for Chris Ring

I have seen Solar Pulp and Arnold players playing for Rodriguez.

Others here have commented on Flannigan doing the same.

If the bigs at the bigs do not care about retaining LHGCL spots, why are they guesting JDL players over to the DI teams?

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by Cleansheets on Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:12 am

BigE's response to ForReal and wazup.

https://ibb.co/kjuZgF

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by Zizou on Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:15 am

Someone is going to have to fund the GDA.

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by Big Ern on Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:35 am

wazup wrote:Good attempt at a deflection

I spoke to someone who was at the meeting where the clubs decided to exclude Kicks.

This has been discussed ad nauseam and was simply due to Kicks not being an ECNL club.  Personally, I disagree with this decision as JM is legit and he has some strong sides.

I have seen FCD Blue players playing for Chris Ring

1 player from 04s that had major back surgery and is rehabbing.  The other is an 05.

I have seen Solar Pulp and Arnold players playing for Rodriguez.

Maybe Arnold? (I purposely excluded them as I don't know much about them)

Others here have commented on Flannigan doing the same.  

Might be ... I only mentioned the teams I have intimate knowledge of.

If the bigs at the bigs do not care about retaining LHGCL spots, why are they guesting JDL players over to the DI teams?

Maybe for rehab or to get playing time?  Kinda like the Roughriders are to the Rangers.

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by Guest on Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:36 am

Zizou wrote:Someone is going to have to fund the GDA.

Here's some rough back-of-the-envelope math...

Based on the latest info I have regarding age groups and roster sizes for GDA, you are talking roughly 85 GDA players at a club. Currently, those 85 players are all paying roughly $3k per year in dues, which amounts to roughly $250k in revenue for the club.

Now, let's say that a club has 85 non-DA select teams. In order to fully fund just the dues portion of the 85 DA players, and have a zero sum impact on club revenue, the club would have to increase the dues for every player on those 85 teams by roughly $200 per year. If the club only has ~60 non-DA select teams, it's roughly $300 per player, if the club only has ~40 non-DA select teams, it's $400 per year.


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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by wazup on Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:44 am

BigErn wrote:
wazup wrote:Good attempt at a deflection

I spoke to someone who was at the meeting where the clubs decided to exclude Kicks.

This has been discussed ad nauseam and was simply due to Kicks not being an ECNL club.  Personally, I disagree with this decision as JM is legit and he has some strong sides.

I have seen FCD Blue players playing for Chris Ring

1 player from 04s that had major back surgery and is rehabbing.  The other is an 05.

I have seen Solar Pulp and Arnold players playing for Rodriguez.

Maybe Arnold? (I purposely excluded them as I don't know much about them)

Others here have commented on Flannigan doing the same.  

Might be ... I only mentioned the teams I have intimate knowledge of.

If the bigs at the bigs do not care about retaining LHGCL spots, why are they guesting JDL players over to the DI teams?

Maybe for rehab or to get playing time?  Kinda like the Roughriders are to the Rangers.


Kicks girls could play for Kicks LHGCL and D'Feeters ECNL.

It was a concerted decision by some of the bigs to NOT follow ECNL rules and exclude Kicks.

And if you think that the bigs are only moving JDL players to LH DI teams and benching the actual players on the team "Maybe for rehab or to get playing time?" - then you are either ignorant or a bigger douche than I thought.

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by SoccerTexas on Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:45 am

bwgophers wrote:
Zizou wrote:Someone is going to have to fund the GDA.

Here's some rough back-of-the-envelope math...

Based on the latest info I have regarding age groups and roster sizes for GDA, you are talking roughly 85 GDA players at a club.  Currently, those 85 players are all paying roughly $3k per year in dues, which amounts to roughly $250k in revenue for the club.

Now, let's say that a club has 85 non-DA select teams.  In order to fully fund just the dues portion of the 85 DA players, and have a zero sum impact on club revenue, the club would have to increase the dues for every player on those 85 teams by roughly $200 per year.  If the club only has ~60 non-DA select teams, it's roughly $300 per player, if the club only has ~40 non-DA select teams, it's $400 per year.


They would need to cover player travel as well.  Clubs like LA Galaxy cover all expenses including travel.

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by Zizou on Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:46 am

Unfortunately the no pay to play model cannot support itself. Younger ages will become the victims of higher fees.

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by Zizou on Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:47 am

Unless you have a revenue generator at your disposal.

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by Zizou on Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:50 am

Women's pro teams will struggle generating enough revenue to support a GDA program.

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by Zizou on Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:52 am

How would a club with both the boys DA and the girls DA fund the loss of 500K plus a year in revenue?

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by SoccerTexas on Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:53 am

Zizou wrote:Unfortunately the no pay to play model cannot support itself. Younger ages will become the victims of higher fees.

And that is the true irony when Heinrichs was thumbing her nose at the "big clubs" but simultaneously wanting the clubs to fully fund the DA.  They so desperately want to rid themselves of the youth clubs.  But when you have 10 whole NWSL teams, you cant exactly get your way.  This league doesnt exist without pay to play.

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by ForReal on Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:53 am

bwgophers wrote:
Zizou wrote:Someone is going to have to fund the GDA.

Here's some rough back-of-the-envelope math...

Based on the latest info I have regarding age groups and roster sizes for GDA, you are talking roughly 85 GDA players at a club.  Currently, those 85 players are all paying roughly $3k per year in dues, which amounts to roughly $250k in revenue for the club.

Now, let's say that a club has 85 non-DA select teams.  In order to fully fund just the dues portion of the 85 DA players, and have a zero sum impact on club revenue, the club would have to increase the dues for every player on those 85 teams by roughly $200 per year.  If the club only has ~60 non-DA select teams, it's roughly $300 per player, if the club only has ~40 non-DA select teams, it's $400 per year.


This hurts because you can very well expect the lower level select players to subsidize this (they already disproportionately subsidize the higher levels within the club as is).  

While your numbers replace revenue, I'm afraid that won't be enough to cover additional expenses that will be associated with DA.

Can you imagine being a PPL or PT select team paying $200-$400 more to support GDA?  It's one thing if your DD might be on track to be GDA or ECNL.  It's another if you're just trying to get your DD involved in competitive soccer.  Sadly, we parents are just going to take it up the shorts.

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by Zizou on Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:55 am

Yep

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by Zizou on Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:56 am

That no pay to play model for the girls side suddenly does not look so great after all.

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by SoccerTexas on Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:59 am

It was simply a power grab to start off with so many GDA clubs. They wanted to make travel reasonable but they should have required it to be funded from the start or at least require by year 3 for it to be fully funded or you lose the DA.  No need to start off with so many clubs unless the sole purpose was to break ECNL.  Why start with 4 GDA clubs right out of the gate?  Let the market determine if its needed then expand.

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by Big Ern on Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:02 am

Maybe the Dash down south have the solution? They just brought in a 3,000+ kid rec program with the Rush merger.

If only we could get over the political hurdles here in NTX to get that done ...
I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen in the near future.

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by Zizou on Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:04 am

Boys DA has clubs that are not fully funding.

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by Zizou on Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:05 am

Oh I bet those rec parents are delighted to see their fees increasing.

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by Foxysoccermom on Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:09 am

wazup wrote:Good attempt at a deflection

I spoke to someone who was at the meeting where the clubs decided to exclude Kicks.

I have seen FCD Blue players playing for Chris Ring

I have seen Solar Pulp and Arnold players playing for Rodriguez.

Others here have commented on Flannigan doing the same.

If the bigs at the bigs do not care about retaining LHGCL spots, why are they guesting JDL players over to the DI teams?

What big e is missing is the bigs actually care more about the lh teams $$$. That's the money train and they can't afford to lose it.
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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by ForReal on Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:16 am

SoccerTexas wrote:It was simply a power grab to start off with so many GDA clubs. They wanted to make travel reasonable but they should have required it to be funded from the start or at least require by year 3 for it to be fully funded or you lose the DA.  No need to start off with so many clubs unless the sole purpose was to break ECNL.  Why start with 4 GDA clubs right out of the gate?  Let the market determine if its needed then expand.

Totally agree.  But will there be 4 GDA clubs to start?  FCD, Solar and Texans all have posted some or a lot of information about it on their sites.  Sting makes no mention of GDA.  Maybe that's just poor planning or marketing?  Maybe it's intentional?  Maybe they are handling it internally with the players already on their ECNL rosters?  I don't know, but I would at least be promoting it.

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by kick_tha_ball on Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:21 am

Zizou wrote:That no pay to play model for the girls side suddenly does not look so great after all.

Yall act like you don't have options. You don't have to pay. Steer your DD into something else less costly. Otherwise, sack up and do what you gotta do to support your kid.
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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by Zizou on Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:24 am

I'm pretty sure Sting is working internally. Looking at feedback and planning before offering up information that no one has answers to at this point.

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by Zizou on Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:25 am

Yes the other options!

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