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Region III Championships

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Re: Region III Championships

Post by Son_ofa_Pitch on Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:45 pm

And what's there not to buy? This was the explanation that was giving to us which is not totally clear.

Rule 224. PLAYER ELIGIBILITY
Section 1. A player must be properly registered and rostered in accordance with the rules of
US Youth Soccer and the State Association.
Section 2. A youth player may be on the National Championships roster of only one team at each level of the National Championships competitions during any seasonal year; provided, however, that a youth player who was rostered to a team of a club at a National Championship competition level that has been eliminated and does not advance to any level of the competition and who has been issued a club pass of that club in accordance with this policy may be rostered to another team of that club at the next level of the National Championship competitions. Subject to the foregoing, and subject to the provisions of Rule 221, Section 1 (5), at each level of the National Championships competitions, a team may add to its National Championship roster for that level as many registered youth players holding club passes of that club of which a team is a member as the team or its club determines so long as the roster does not exceed 22 players. A team may not change the club of which it is a member at any time after the commencement of the National Championship competitions and in any event only in compliance with the rules of the State Association of which the club is a member.


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Re: Region III Championships

Post by KeeperCommander on Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:50 pm

Picture books with large font will be sent to AF from now on.

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Re: Region III Championships

Post by Son_ofa_Pitch on Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:02 pm

Why you trying throw salt on a open wound, KC? You must have a kid on Elite?
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Re: Region III Championships

Post by KeeperCommander on Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:06 pm

Son_ofa_Pitch wrote:Why you trying to cut KC? You must have a kid on Elite?
Nope.

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Re: Region III Championships

Post by Guest on Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:20 am

Son_ofa_Pitch wrote:And what's there not to buy? This was the explanation that was giving to us which is not totally clear.

Rule 224. PLAYER ELIGIBILITY
Section 1. A player must be properly registered and rostered in accordance with the rules of
US Youth Soccer and the State Association.
Section 2. A youth player may be on the National Championships roster of only one team at each level of the National Championships competitions during any seasonal year; provided, however, that a youth player who was rostered to a team of a club at a National Championship competition level that has been eliminated and does not advance to any level of the competition and who has been issued a club pass of that club in accordance with this policy may be rostered to another team of that club at the next level of the National Championship competitions. Subject to the foregoing, and subject to the provisions of Rule 221, Section 1 (5), at each level of the National Championships competitions, a team may add to its National Championship roster for that level as many registered youth players holding club passes of that club of which a team is a member as the team or its club determines so long as the roster does not exceed 22 players. A team may not change the club of which it is a member at any time after the commencement of the National Championship competitions and in any event only in compliance with the rules of the State Association of which the club is a member.

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Re: Region III Championships

Post by wazup on Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:30 am

Really like how SoaP only highlights the section that makes it confusing to him - and completely ignores the section that is COMPLETELY CLEAR.

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Re: Region III Championships

Post by Nothing_but_net on Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:38 am

I think the unclear part is that the rule doesn't specifically address a player dual rostered to another team, of another club, in another state, in another age group. Sure, a phone call probably should have been made a long time ago to someone in the know at USYS to avoid potential disqualification, but hindsight is 20/20 right?

I don't think the club/coach/manager intentionally tried to break the rules. They didn't have too. They've beat OFC before, and other teams much better than OFC. Sure, this girl must be a superstar to play that much competitive soccer in two states, but there were plenty of superstars on the team to fill in the void if she weren't there.  

LP learned their lesson and paid the price, and gave us all something to talk about. Hopefully they will not make the same mistake again. Sounds like they accept it and won't be appealing.

While LP is not advancing, neither is OFC.  Time to focus on something else.
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Re: Region III Championships

Post by KeeperCommander on Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:20 am

I don't know about completely clear but it isn't confusing either. It does not state in a way that would make one think it's ok for a player to play. Too much emphasis is being placed on whether or not they cheated and I don't think that is the case. Nothing But may be right, they should have made a call to confirm.

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Re: Region III Championships

Post by ElClassico on Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:23 am

Maybe the easier thing would have been the rotten milk test, if it smells bad it probably is.
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Region III committee bad ruling

Post by pfloyd on Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:47 pm

Removed


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Re: Region III Championships

Post by Zizou on Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:30 pm

Ultimately it has nothing to do with the other coach. A rule was broken and players and parents suffered. Who's to blame Club and Coach. End of discussion!

I agree with those on the board. Time to move on and allow for this to situation to be forgotten. Bringing it up over and over just keeps the situation alive and those who were hurt by it remembering.


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Re: Region III Championships

Post by Foxysoccermom on Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:42 pm

Thanks for the in depth analysis pfloyd. Good stuff...but foxy has to ask herself...why did Lfc need a kid from ok that can't practice with the team, to help represent Tx?  Did the coach say "wish you were here" when she really wasn't?  Was he just "learning to fly"?

Good luck to you next year and see you on the dark side of the moon....shine on you crazy diamond.

Regards Foxy.
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Re: Region III Championships

Post by pfloyd on Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:49 pm

Removed


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Re: Region III Championships

Post by pfloyd on Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:53 pm

Removed


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Re: Region III Championships

Post by Zizou on Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:58 pm

Then your club and team were done in by, I will not say the kid but a parent that was not up front with your team. Nothing will nor can be done by bringing this up. Truly sorry for the parents and the young ladies that had to live that moment.

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Re: Region III Championships

Post by Foxysoccermom on Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:16 pm

pfloyd wrote:Foxysoccermon, the player was on LFC roster all season long and came down to Texas to play. She also came down on weekdays to practice some times. We should be proud that girls from OK want to come to Texas to become better soccer players. In any case, she was on LFC's roster from game one of the 2016-2017 season and was at our signing party too.


"Hey you" simmer down. "It's just another brick in the wall". Lfc is past it's prime...it's all about ego and "money..which only gets you down".

It all makes me "comfortably numb".

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Re: Region III Championships

Post by KeeperCommander on Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:20 pm

Said player became ineligible the second she played for a second team in a second state cup. Sorry Chief, ineligible means ineligible. Doesn't matter who had her first. Then when you play said ineligible player that means DQ. It's a first but I am with Z here. Let the sleeping dog lie, team and coach screwed up. Feel bad for all the girls though, you can win your National Championship next year.

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Re: Region III Championships

Post by pfloyd on Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:14 am

Removed


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Re: Region III Championships

Post by pfloyd on Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:39 am

Removed


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Re: Region III Championships

Post by pfloyd on Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:43 am

Removed


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Re: Region III Championships

Post by ElClassico on Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:14 am

pfloyd wrote:Zizou I agree that nothing can be done to change this outcome for our team. I don't agree that nothing can be done, unless the truth is not told.

Everyone should be outraged that the Region III rules committee broke it's own rules to make a ruling. Does everybody understand how wrong and dangerous that is????  If they believe they are above their own rules where then, will their power stop?

If everybody sends emails to NTX, Region III and National SRPL soccer demanding an answer to why it is OK for the Region III committee to break the rules it could be that they will think twice before breaking the rules again and doing this to somebody else. There was a common theme throughout peoples posts and that was they hoped LFC learned their lesson. So, how does the rules committee learn their lesson? They won't if everyone remains silent.

Your voices are powerful and can make a difference.

Don't do this for me or my daughter do it for your children because they could be next.

Who from Liverpool has contacted the committee? Being connected to one of the biggest clubs in the world should have some benefit, no? Seems to me someone high up in LFC America should be sounding the alarm publically, not just a group of parents.

Really the lesson to be learned is not to play a player that's in doubt. It's kind of like allowing a ref to determine the outcome of a game. LFC should have never put the rest of the team in that position. The moment they found out she played in OK it should have been the end of it, not the middle of the first half 1200 miles away. Blame the other coach all you want but it was LFC who made the decision to roll the dice. It could have been dealt with before leaving for NC by contacting the committee and getting a ruling in writing before hand.
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Re: Region III Championships

Post by upper95 on Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:33 am

KeeperCommander wrote:Said player became ineligible the second she played for a second team in a second state cup. Sorry Chief, ineligible means ineligible. Doesn't matter who had her first. Then when you play said ineligible player that means DQ.

Agree 100%.

Lots of culpable parties here, and a bureaucratic nightmare...

Did dad ever wonder if it was ok to play in multiple state cups? The first casualty for non-compliance would be his DD.

There obviously isn't a system or process in place to cross reference rosters (heck we don't even stop people from voting in multiple states), and who guards against extremely unlikely scenarios (time consuming and expensive)?

The fact that Region III did not follow the protest rules is worthy of condemnation, but these (multiple copies and a bond) are usually put into place to dissuade frivolous accusations. This type of accusation was unusual and apparently credible.

If the OK coach really kept the information in his pocket until he could use it to his advantage, he is ethically challenged and should be suspended.

If LP knew she played in OK, recognize the red flag and check multiple sources.

Side question: did NTSSA have a written release from OK to allow her to play in Texas in the first place? if not, she was never legally rostered in TX. if there was a release, the OK State Cup rosters could have been checked against Oklahoma residents released to other states.

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Re: Region III Championships

Post by KeeperCommander on Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:05 am

pfloyd wrote:KeeperCommander I did not read anything in the rules about whether a player plays. I could only find rules that refer to rosters. Please point me to those rule so I can update my findings. Actually if I remember correct there was a rule about playing an ineligible player. The penalty was to forfeit each game she played in. The committee chose not to enforce that rule but apply the much tougher illegal roster rules.
Player on roster at this age means player was in uniform and played. Minutes are not tallied and everything is unfortunately taking to be gospel. Once player played for OK then she became an ineligible player for anyone. Perhaps players fault, parents fault, coaches fault or whoever but it was in fact somones fault. That being said it doesn't even matter to this forum who's fault it was. Fact is somebody screwed up. Move on.

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Re: Region III Championships

Post by KeeperCommander on Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:10 am

upper95 wrote:
KeeperCommander wrote:Said player became ineligible the second she played for a second team in a second state cup. Sorry Chief, ineligible means ineligible. Doesn't matter who had her first. Then when you play said ineligible player that means DQ.

Agree 100%.

Lots of culpable parties here, and a bureaucratic nightmare...

Did dad ever wonder if it was ok to play in multiple state cups?  The first casualty for non-compliance would be his DD.

There obviously isn't a system or process in place to cross reference rosters (heck we don't even stop people from voting in multiple states), and who guards against extremely unlikely scenarios (time consuming and expensive)?

The fact that Region III did not follow the protest rules is worthy of condemnation, but these (multiple copies and a bond) are usually put into place to dissuade frivolous accusations.  This type of accusation was unusual and apparently credible.  

If the OK coach really kept the information in his pocket until he could use it to his advantage, he is ethically challenged and should be suspended.

If LP knew she played in OK, recognize the red flag and check multiple sources.

Side question:  did NTSSA have a written release from OK to allow her to play in Texas in the first place?  if not, she was never legally rostered in TX.  if there was a release, the OK State Cup rosters could have been checked against Oklahoma residents released to other states.
It does seem strangely odd that everyone else seemed to know that player was from OK and had played in multiple state cups but association did not. Ask anyone on sideline, they all knew. Seems you can't have secrets in NTX soccer.

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Re: Region III Championships

Post by Nothing_but_net on Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:23 am

ElClassico wrote:
Really the lesson to be learned is not to play a player that's in doubt. It's kind of like allowing a ref to determine the outcome of a game. LFC should have never put the rest of the team in that position. The moment they found out she played in OK it should have been the end of it, not the middle of the first half 1200 miles away. Blame the other coach all you want but it was LFC who made the decision to roll the dice. It could have been dealt with before leaving for NC by contacting the committee and getting a ruling in writing before hand.

Agree 100%...it was a costly roll of the dice. And for many of the players affected, it's not as simple as "you can try again next year," since they've moved on to other ECNL and DA teams.
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Re: Region III Championships

Post by Full Kit Wankers Beware on Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:12 am

LP_Elite wrote:We were disqualified from the regional championships in Greensboro, North Carolina for fielding an ineligible player. The player in question has been on our roster since July 1 2016. She dual rostered with us and NWO in Oklahoma. The player in question played in all competitions with us (LP ELITE 03) except for State cup, including SRPL (USYSA) and this includes games against OFC. We believed that because NWO 02 did not advance to regionals that she was good to go and play with us. What we learned was that the rules change for the 'Champions Series' which includes state cup, regionals and national finals. Once a player plays for a certain team in any champions series competition they are automatically ineligible to compete for another team in the 'champions series' even if dual rostered in a different state. The rules were shown to us after the fact and were very unclear, yet in the eyes of the tournament directors we had violated this rule and were immediately disqualified. We won our first game against OFC 4-0 and were confident of advancing out of the group stages. What happened was unintentional and we completely accept the ruling and will live to fight another day. I accept full responsibility as the coach of this team and that's that. We look forward to competing in the next 12 months to attempt to achieve a better outcome at the next regional championships.

This has absolutely no bearing on NPL national finals (US Club) and the player in question will continue to play for Liverpool 03 Elite.

Was this the same team at NPL Nationals (link below)?

http://nationalpremierleagues.com/_element_display/#%2Fscripts%2Frunisa.dll%3FM2%3Agp%3A%3A73474%2BElements%2FDisplay%2BE%2B47116%2BTeam%2F%2B88519907%2B87039498
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