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Post by tpitty on 08/07/17, 02:47 pm

I was noticing that nearly every club in the ECNL championships is a soon to be member of the DA. --Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

U14: Solar v Eclipse: yes.
U15: Socal, Solar, Slammers, Tophat: yes.
U16: Concorde, FCD, Tophat, FC Stars: yes
U17: Crossfire, Mich Hawks, Colorado Storm, Slammers: Not Storm (yet) --they appear to have boys DA, so I am sure that will happen sooner rather than later.
U18/19: Mi Hawks, SD Surf: yes.

I am curious to see how these teams divide the rosters into DA. Will a D'Feeters who will only be ECNL be representing NTX in the championships now that all the elite talent moves to DA? What will that ECNL representation mean, will it be similar to ECNL North American Cup/2nd tier soccer? Or with the SoCal teams playing DA1 and DA2, will the ECNL teams just be reduced to a third tier league or worse?

Seems like a shaky future for the ECNL product. It will be interesting to see how it all pans out.

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Post by boilerjoe_96 on 08/07/17, 03:31 pm

tpitty wrote: Will a D'Feeters who will only be ECNL be representing NTX in the championships now that all the elite talent moves to DA? What will that ECNL representation mean, will it be similar to ECNL North American Cup/2nd tier soccer?  Or with the SoCal teams playing DA1 and DA2, will the ECNL teams just be reduced to a third tier league or worse?

Seems like a shaky future for the ECNL product. It will be interesting to see how it all pans out.

I'll take exception with all elite talent heading to DA(maybe most sure).  My kid an 07, so no dog for years to come. IMHO, there will be many an athlete that will not want to be limited to only DA, as volleyball, basketball, cross country track or other sports will be a draw.  I could be wrong.

Just don't think the way you framed the question is correct.  Sure if most of the elite talent goes to DA, then ECNL will be a 'B' league from top to bottom.

I think there is a place for ECNL, imho the 2nd tier league. Really don't care for 2 or 3 years. At least it will be played out by the time it matters for us. Very Happy
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Post by KeeperCommander on 08/07/17, 06:39 pm

boilerjoe_96 wrote:
tpitty wrote: Will a D'Feeters who will only be ECNL be representing NTX in the championships now that all the elite talent moves to DA? What will that ECNL representation mean, will it be similar to ECNL North American Cup/2nd tier soccer?  Or with the SoCal teams playing DA1 and DA2, will the ECNL teams just be reduced to a third tier league or worse?

Seems like a shaky future for the ECNL product. It will be interesting to see how it all pans out.

I'll take exception with all elite talent heading to DA(maybe most sure).  My kid an 07, so no dog for years to come. IMHO, there will be many an athlete that will not want to be limited to only DA, as volleyball, basketball, cross country track or other sports will be a draw.  I could be wrong.

Just don't think the way you framed the question is correct.  Sure if most of the elite talent goes to DA, then ECNL will be a 'B' league from top to bottom.

I think there is a place for ECNL, imho the 2nd tier league.  Really don't care for 2 or 3 years.  At least it will be played out by the time it matters for us. Very Happy
For now in U13 and U14 it will be hit and miss as far as top talent solely being in DA. If your DD made DA this year great job. I am not trying to diminish the accomplishment. However I know a great number of girls simply did not try out because they were already ECNL or did not want to give up what they had to give up. As the age groups get older though that changes. I see a higher percentage of top talent playing or trying out for DA. This makes sense. JDL for 05 girls does not make sense now. The premise behind it is gone. It is a money grab before and a money grab now.

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Post by ElClassico on 08/07/17, 09:21 pm

Hasn't this topic been beaten to death already?

The same girls are playing the sport. Not every ECNL club is going DA around the country. Believe it or not the soccer world doesn't center around 50 girls +/- in NTX. BTW if you think EVERY girl on DA is now magically and significantly better to those on ECNL you're fooling yourself.
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Post by KeeperCommander on 08/07/17, 09:37 pm

Without beating topics to death, having top ranked teams or just having a bad taste for ignorance we would just be......South Texas.

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Post by Big Ern on 08/07/17, 10:43 pm

KeeperCommander wrote:Without beating topics to death, having top ranked teams or just having a bad taste for ignorance we would just be......South Texas.

^ Fantastic KC --

I do agree that JDL for the 05s this year seems a little silly, but how is it a money grab again?  Playing in JDL costs the same as playing in LHGCL.

Regarding U14s I can tell you that the difference in level between DA and ECNL will be significant.  The same can be said for the U15s, and I'd guess the U13s will be as well so long as the DTS 05s are going DA (been outta the loop recently so not sure which direction they went).  The older groups are the only ones that the ECNL will be competitive and that is primarily due to those kids already being locked up.

El Classico --

"BTW if you think EVERY girl on DA is now magically and significantly better to those on ECNL you're fooling yourself."

Ummm???  We don't think that the kid playing in the ECNL last year is magically better now that they are playing in the DA ... It's just that they're no longer playing in the ECNL, so ... scratch

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Post by KeeperCommander on 08/07/17, 10:53 pm

BigErn wrote:
KeeperCommander wrote:Without beating topics to death, having top ranked teams or just having a bad taste for ignorance we would just be......South Texas.

^ Fantastic KC --

I do agree that JDL for the 05s this year seems a little silly, but how is it a money grab again?  Playing in JDL costs the same as playing in LHGCL.

Premise for JDL was to form a league that had the so called top teams aka top talent. So they didn't have to play the low end teams in LH. In actuality it just had the best those clubs had to offer. Half of them, not so good. With DA teams and ECNL teams now how is that league relevant anymore. Fine, perhaps it served a purpose this past year, but now the whole argument behind it has been dismissed. Thus now it is more of a money grab than anything. How much the leagues cost is irrelevant in any argument.

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Post by Guest on 08/07/17, 11:15 pm

It will be interesting to see how all this plays out, not just in NTX, but across the country, over the next few years.

If you look at DA & ECNL, there is a lot of geographic overlap between the 2 leagues, but it's not like DA came in and just flat out pillaged all of ECNL's clubs and players.  There's 69 DA clubs and 80 ECNL clubs right now.  Of the 69 DA clubs, only 17 are clubs that dropped ECNL to join DA, and then another 14 are doing both in 2017-2108.  So <1/2 of the DA has come directly at ECNL's expense.

What will be interesting to see, is that you have the USSF, who's primary goal with DA is clearly self-serving - control/dictate the development pipeline for the USYNT/WNT in order to keep them on top of the world rankings.  College coaches and the DA clubs are ancillary beneficiaries of this, but when push comes to shove, will USSF put their own interests first, or the colleges/clubs?

On the other hand, ECNL marketed and established itself by effectively serving the needs of it's 2 primary customers - the clubs and the college coaches.  If ECNL is smart, they will continue to listen to both customers and also find ways to innovate.

IMO...  The question will come down to whether USSF will be willing and able to provide enough "customer service" in support of superior "product" or if ECNL will be able to provide a "good enough product" to go along with superior "customer service".

I don't see DA scoring a quick knockout of ECNL, as many predict, but rather I see this going at least a few rounds... er years...


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Post by Big Ern on 08/07/17, 11:15 pm

KeeperCommander wrote:
BigErn wrote:
KeeperCommander wrote:Without beating topics to death, having top ranked teams or just having a bad taste for ignorance we would just be......South Texas.

^ Fantastic KC --

I do agree that JDL for the 05s this year seems a little silly, but how is it a money grab again?  Playing in JDL costs the same as playing in LHGCL.

Premise for JDL was to form a league that had the so called top teams aka top talent. So they didn't have to play the low end teams in LH. In actuality it just had the best those clubs had to offer. Half of them, not so good. With DA teams and ECNL teams now how is that league relevant anymore. Fine, perhaps it served a purpose this past year, but now the whole argument behind it has been dismissed. Thus now it is more of a money grab than anything.  How much the leagues cost is irrelevant in any argument.  

Gotcha KC -

I certainly agree that there were some questionable '2nd' teams participating in JDL last year here and there (which is beside the point).  But while irrelevance may be the case with 05s next year (really just creating another tier for those clubs participating between ECNL and LH), wouldn't JDL still serve a purpose for the 06 and 07 groups since they have no ECNL or DA next year?

Does choosing league A over league B make it a money grab? ... In "any argument"?

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Post by PLAY2FEET!! on 09/07/17, 07:35 am

Well cost is the same for JDL teams as LH teams. With half the games. So who grabs that extra money?

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Post by jogobonito06 on 09/07/17, 07:44 am

SWINGIT!! wrote:Well cost is the same for JDL teams as LH teams. With half the games. So who grabs that extra money?

We played 17 JDL games last year. LHGCL played 19.
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Post by Big Ern on 09/07/17, 08:00 am

jogobonito06 wrote:
SWINGIT!! wrote:Well cost is the same for JDL teams as LH teams. With half the games. So who grabs that extra money?

We played 17 JDL games last year.  LHGCL played 19.  

^ That ... and I was speaking generally there SWINGIT.  If ya really wanna get into it, LHGCL costs a bit more at ~$1800/year, while JDL is ~$1390 ... for about the same number of games ... so ...

And you ask who grabs the $ -- Given that both leagues are governed by LHGCL, you'd think they would wouldn't ya?

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Post by DrSoccer on 09/07/17, 08:34 am

DA will have the same impact on ECNL that ECNL had on LH just give it some time.
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Post by KeeperCommander on 09/07/17, 08:50 am

BigErn wrote:
KeeperCommander wrote:
BigErn wrote:
KeeperCommander wrote:Without beating topics to death, having top ranked teams or just having a bad taste for ignorance we would just be......South Texas.

^ Fantastic KC --

I do agree that JDL for the 05s this year seems a little silly, but how is it a money grab again?  Playing in JDL costs the same as playing in LHGCL.

Premise for JDL was to form a league that had the so called top teams aka top talent. So they didn't have to play the low end teams in LH. In actuality it just had the best those clubs had to offer. Half of them, not so good. With DA teams and ECNL teams now how is that league relevant anymore. Fine, perhaps it served a purpose this past year, but now the whole argument behind it has been dismissed. Thus now it is more of a money grab than anything.  How much the leagues cost is irrelevant in any argument.  

Gotcha KC -

I certainly agree that there were some questionable '2nd' teams participating in JDL last year here and there (which is beside the point).  But while irrelevance may be the case with 05s next year (really just creating another tier for those clubs participating between ECNL and LH), wouldn't JDL still serve a purpose for the 06 and 07 groups since they have no ECNL or DA next year?

Does choosing league A over league B make it a money grab? ... In "any argument"?
No just 05. Not arguing the 06/07 stand point. If they still want to say that JDL is still best for thise ages let them. From what I see, most will be doing both.

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Post by KeeperCommander on 09/07/17, 08:57 am

BigErn wrote:
jogobonito06 wrote:
SWINGIT!! wrote:Well cost is the same for JDL teams as LH teams. With half the games. So who grabs that extra money?

We played 17 JDL games last year.  LHGCL played 19.  

^ That ... and I was speaking generally there SWINGIT.  If ya really wanna get into it, LHGCL costs a bit more at ~$1800/year, while JDL is ~$1390 ... for about the same number of games ... so ...

And you ask who grabs the $ -- Given that both leagues are governed by LHGCL, you'd think they would wouldn't ya?
The money grab has nothing to do with how much leagues cost or how many games played. It certainly could be argued though. Rather if you had 2 LH teams and were advertising for players for a league that you tout as high end without qualifying. Then you are just salesmen. Good salesman mind you. Then you charge the parents the same as you would a LH team but as you stated cost less to operate than a LH team then you have just qualified to be a money grab. Especially when you have two. Then a good portion of said teams do not make the DA as was probably promised.

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Post by KeeperCommander on 09/07/17, 09:00 am

jogobonito06 wrote:
SWINGIT!! wrote:Well cost is the same for JDL teams as LH teams. With half the games. So who grabs that extra money?

We played 17 JDL games last year.  LHGCL played 19.  
Nobody knows how many games were played because the schedule was locked up and gotsoccer has nothing. Sounds like you didn't have any games Lt Dan.

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Post by jogobonito06 on 09/07/17, 09:58 am

That's right, if it's not in Gotsoccer it never happened. Bet you pay attention to Gotsoccer rankings too Laughing Rolling Eyes Laughing Rolling Eyes
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Post by Big Ern on 09/07/17, 10:07 am

There are no teams participating in JDL that haven't and/or wouldnt qualify for LHGCL ... nothing to "sell" really.  How isn't JDL "high end" when you play the top team from each of the ECNL clubs multiple times per year?

JDL offers more consistant top end comp for less $ especially when you figure every LH team has to pay either $800 for qualifying tourney or a $625 bye fee (the real "money grab").

The argument that JDL is a better option (both competitively and financially) will be even more accentuated this year (especially in the 05 age group) given that LH D1 teams are 3rd tier at best.  That and the Kicks and Rush talent is now DFeeters, plus LP Elite has been depleted.

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Post by KeeperCommander on 09/07/17, 10:08 am

I am aware that gotsoccer has rankings. I do not pay homage to them though. However if you play a game against an opponent then it should be listed somewhere. Don't you think.

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Post by KeeperCommander on 09/07/17, 10:09 am

BigErn wrote:There are no teams participating in JDL that haven't and/or wouldnt qualify for LHGCL ... nothing to "sell" really.  How isn't JDL "high end" when you play the top team from each of the ECNL clubs multiple times per year?

JDL offers more consistant top end comp for less $ especially when you figure every LH team has to pay either $800 for qualifying tourney or a $625 bye fee (the real "money grab").

The argument that JDL is a better option (both competitively and financially) will be even more accentuated this year (especially in the 05 age group) given that LH D1 teams are 3rd tier at best.  That and the Kicks and Rush talent is now DFeeters, plus LP Elite has been depleted.
You keep saying less money. The club is making MORE money.

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Post by db10 on 09/07/17, 10:50 am

GotSoccer Rankings Laughing Laughing Laughing

Any system that has a team who needs to requalify above an ECNL team is seriously flawed.

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Post by db10 on 09/07/17, 11:09 am

bwgophers wrote:It will be interesting to see how all this plays out, not just in NTX, but across the country, over the next few years.

If you look at DA & ECNL, there is a lot of geographic overlap between the 2 leagues, but it's not like DA came in and just flat out pillaged all of ECNL's clubs and players.  There's 69 DA clubs and 80 ECNL clubs right now.  Of the 69 DA clubs, only 17 are clubs that dropped ECNL to join DA, and then another 14 are doing both in 2017-2108.  So <1/2 of the DA has come directly at ECNL's expense.

What will be interesting to see, is that you have the USSF, who's primary goal with DA is clearly self-serving - control/dictate the development pipeline for the USYNT/WNT in order to keep them on top of the world rankings.  College coaches and the DA clubs are ancillary beneficiaries of this, but when push comes to shove, will USSF put their own interests first, or the colleges/clubs?

On the other hand, ECNL marketed and established itself by effectively serving the needs of it's 2 primary customers - the clubs and the college coaches.  If ECNL is smart, they will continue to listen to both customers and also find ways to innovate.

IMO...  The question will come down to whether USSF will be willing and able to provide enough "customer service" in support of superior "product" or if ECNL will be able to provide a "good enough product" to go along with superior "customer service".

I don't see DA scoring a quick knockout of ECNL, as many predict, but rather I see this going at least a few rounds... er years...

I fully agree. ECNL (with more teams) didn't kill NPL, Lake Highlands, etc. so why does everyone think DA will kill off ECNL?

The only way I see it happening is if USSF adopts the systems from Europe in which all teams and leagues fall under one umbrella. Basically if your kid plays soccer they do so for The Man ;-)

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Post by KeeperCommander on 09/07/17, 12:40 pm

I really don't know. Is LH $800 each for Fall and Spring? Plus 600 something for bye fee? Is that right?

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Post by db10 on 09/07/17, 01:02 pm

$1800 for the season + $500 for fields + $625 for the bye.

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Post by KeeperCommander on 09/07/17, 03:50 pm

db10 wrote:$1800 for the season + $500 for fields + $625 for the bye.
So one could derive that if you are playing LH you are receiving a great deal. If you are playing JDL you are paying the same fees to club and they are paying out less. So Cha Ching for them. You have to think that if you are playing both then you are receiving the best overall deal. Wonder if they are paying for JDL out of pocket.

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