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Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

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Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by SickofStupidity on 11/10/17, 03:53 pm

BigErn wrote:
JonSneauxTargaryen wrote:
BigErn wrote:
JonSneauxTargaryen wrote:
HomeStretch wrote:
BigErn wrote:
State Cup and PLD at U14+ have been watered down since the inception of ECNL almost a decade ago.  A major reason ECNL (and now USSDA) was created and has been so successful is because it provides competition/showcase opportunities for top talent on regional/national levels rather than just on a state level.  

Vegas Cup has in the same boat at State Cup since ECNL, and Surf Cup is fine given that it has had ECNL (and now USSDA) divisions.

This is not true. When ECNL started it was a much smaller league than what it became after years of expansion. It did not immediately consolidate all or even most of the top talent. DTexans were not members of ECNL at its inception.

ALL the high quality ECNL teams at its inception also played USYS events and still competed nationally in the USYS structure. ECNL was created because club owners and DOCs wanted more control over travel soccer than the admins at USYS wanted to give them. It had nothing to do with any lack of competition or showcase opportunities for top talent. It was successful because ECNL and US Club Soccer were superior marketers and business owners compared to USYS admins.  

Surf Cup and other major national tourneys only recently started separating out divisions based on league affiliation. This is also a marketing decision - since most these tournaments are hosted by us club soccer member orgs. Up until very recently, surf cup STILL took the "best of the best" and let them compete against each other in a very well respected application process. This was still the case long after the inception of ECNL.

The only evidence IMO the "new" multi-league formats are better than the old system is access to college coaches is more dispersed. Before, you needed to be good enough to make a good to great team if you wanted to be seen, because only good teams were going to make top levels of showcases and regional/national tournaments. This meant talent would concentrate into only a handful of teams in each market. This also meant more pressure on those teams to win.

Now, parents are given the illusion they can buy exposure by joining any # of leagues with guaranteed exposure. Great players on bad teams can theoretically be identified without having to change to a better team. It's an illusion because coaches are still looking at individual talent and "Great" in the parent eye is often a different assessment in the coach eye, and the new system allows far more parents to leave on the rose colored glasses far longer than they otherwise would've in yesteryear. The new formats are what diluted the natural consolidation that was occurring in the old system, and IMO have also led to greater and greater reliance on early recruiting as college coaches start laying eyeballs on 7th and 8th graders.

DA is a "closed" system, as is ECNL, and unless it addresses costs and travel, it's not likely in the long run to produce any substantially better product than ECNL....IMO


Thats my theory...

In NTX...a year ago ECNL was the exclusive league that was in place for the top talent to get the top training from the top coaches....

Fast forward to now...DA is the exclusive league that is in place for the top talent to get the top training from the top coaches....

Those coaches that coached ECNL last year are DA coaches now....is there something different that they are teaching this year vs last year? if so....why were they holding back?

Other than the mandated USSF curriculum & training standards, game film study, weekly regeneration training, daily individual player physical & mental monitoring, and additional training days ... nothing much different from last year.

What makes GA, as a coach, ECNL worthy now? I know he didn't enroll in any additional courses or clinics this summer. So he is basically training in the same format he has always been.

Not sure anyone can answer this one other than saying GA didn't have the USSF B to coach a DA squad, those DTS parents & kids wanted to participate in ECNL, and HN didn't want to lose all of that talent?

Same for LW....
and CP....what is he teaching those girls that he had last year in JDL different this year since they are DA athletes now?

Both have USSF B ... see above for your answer to, "what is he teaching those girls that he had last year in JDL different this year".


Damn....didnt know they had that.
Is that an FCD thing or DA thing?

As far as I know it's a DA thing JST --


Probably shouldn't be assuming things BigE

knowing multiple Texan DA parents

similar response that JST had from every one I have spoken to...
"Same level of play in the game but as far as the training....its just more of it....so far"

mandated USSF curriculum & training standards - no real difference they can tell
game film study - by coaches?  because not by players
weekly regeneration training - nope
"daily" individual player physical & mental monitoring - what??  now that is funny (what is daily mental monitoring?  does FCD have a shrink on staff?)
additional training days - even some non-ECNL teams last year (and this year) already had 3 days/week


And that parents of kids in DA this year 'bought exposure'.  how have the USSDA not addressed costs in your mind?  The vast majority of Boy's programs are free as are a growing number of Girl's programs.  Those that aren't are substantially discounted and provide kits.

Nope - Texans costs were only slightly discounted

again BigE - YOUR experience does not represent everyone else's

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Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by BigErn on 11/10/17, 04:03 pm

KeeperCommander wrote:
BigErn wrote:
OLJW wrote:The problem with the old system was it didn't elimate outliers that managed to succeed through competition. The new system solved that by restricting who gets to compete. Great system, the Chinese have been using it to select leaders for decades.

Just as clever as it is adorable OLJW --

The thing is though ... Any of these kids (including your own) are welcome to tryout for any the teams playing in the new system you've so cunningly referred to, and therefore, can indeed still succeed through competition  Wink
Hey does anyone know if International Cup will have DA brackets? Or will they play with the real talent?

I'm betting (and we're hoping) that the groups will be combined ...

I know that my kid would love to play against some international comp!

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Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by BigErn on 11/10/17, 04:23 pm

Yes -- SoS ... fantastic stuff!  

Why are you under the impression that I'm assuming anything?  You should know by now that if I am indeed making an assumption, I'll preface as such.

Now then ... I assume that the Texans DA parents you "know" are of the 05 variety, in which case they are a pilot program and do not have the same guidelines placed upon them by the USSDA.  If you're referring to U14+, that's a completely different animal and violations of those guidelines could land them in a heap o trouble with USSDA ... Although I'd buy that the Texans aren't properly following USSDA policies -- after all, they are led by the man himself ... HN.  If true, that sucks for those kids that are being short changed.

And since you are tickled by the daily individual player physical and mental monitoring ... Yes -- FCD has a "shrink" on staff Wink

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Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by Guest on 11/10/17, 04:36 pm

BigErn wrote: Yes -- FCD has a "shrink" on staff Wink

Oh man... there are soooooo many different directions I could go with that statement right there... Twisted Evil

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Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by BigErn on 11/10/17, 04:38 pm

bwgophers wrote:
BigErn wrote: Yes -- FCD has a "shrink" on staff Wink

Oh man...  there are soooooo many different directions I could go with that statement right there...  Twisted Evil

Let's have it Bdub!

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Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by SickofStupidity on 11/10/17, 04:41 pm

BigErn wrote:Yes -- SoS ... fantastic stuff!  

Why are you under the impression that I'm assuming anything?  You should know by now that if I am indeed making an assumption, I'll preface as such.

Now then ... I assume that the Texans DA parents you "know" are of the 05 variety, in which case they are a pilot program and do not have the same guidelines placed upon them by the USSDA.  If you're referring to U14+, that's a completely different animal and violations of those guidelines could land them in a heap o trouble with USSDA ... Although I'd buy that the Texans aren't properly following USSDA policies -- after all, they are led by the man himself ... HN.  If true, that sucks for those kids that are being short changed.

And since you are tickled by the daily individual player physical and mental monitoring ... Yes -- FCD has a "shrink" on staff Wink

because multiple items you represented as factual for DA teams were incorrect

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Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by KeeperCommander on 11/10/17, 04:44 pm

bwgophers wrote:
BigErn wrote: Yes -- FCD has a "shrink" on staff Wink

Oh man...  there are soooooo many different directions I could go with that statement right there...  Twisted Evil
Given the fact of who FCD has employed as coaches I would say having a shrink on staff would be a requirement per parole guidelines. Laughing

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Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by BigErn on 11/10/17, 04:48 pm

SickofStupidity wrote:
BigErn wrote:Yes -- SoS ... fantastic stuff!  

Why are you under the impression that I'm assuming anything?  You should know by now that if I am indeed making an assumption, I'll preface as such.

Now then ... I assume that the Texans DA parents you "know" are of the 05 variety, in which case they are a pilot program and do not have the same guidelines placed upon them by the USSDA.  If you're referring to U14+, that's a completely different animal and violations of those guidelines could land them in a heap o trouble with USSDA ... Although I'd buy that the Texans aren't properly following USSDA policies -- after all, they are led by the man himself ... HN.  If true, that sucks for those kids that are being short changed.

And since you are tickled by the daily individual player physical and mental monitoring ... Yes -- FCD has a "shrink" on staff Wink

because multiple items you represented as factual for DA teams were incorrect

Ooooh .... rough ^ 

Again -- right there in your name Sir.

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Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by soccerjack on 11/10/17, 04:59 pm

BigErn wrote:Yes -- SoS ... fantastic stuff!  

Why are you under the impression that I'm assuming anything?  You should know by now that if I am indeed making an assumption, I'll preface as such.

Now then ... I assume that the Texans DA parents you "know" are of the 05 variety, in which case they are a pilot program and do not have the same guidelines placed upon them by the USSDA.  If you're referring to U14+, that's a completely different animal and violations of those guidelines could land them in a heap o trouble with USSDA ... Although I'd buy that the Texans aren't properly following USSDA policies -- after all, they are led by the man himself ... HN.  If true, that sucks for those kids that are being short changed.

And since you are tickled by the daily individual player physical and mental monitoring ... Yes -- FCD has a "shrink" on staff Wink


So how does Ussda get to the bottom of this? I'd hate to see a club get in a heap of trouble for breaking kids soccer laws.

Ohhhh By the way. Are you buying or selling the BS below.....Good stuff BigE. Medicine man might be right....are you the real slim shady?

game film study, weekly regeneration training, daily individual player physical & mental monitoring
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Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by Medicine Man on 11/10/17, 05:01 pm

Sho nuff likes his electric paid....I like my paychecks.

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Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by BigErn on 11/10/17, 05:18 pm

soccerjack wrote:
BigErn wrote:Yes -- SoS ... fantastic stuff!  

Why are you under the impression that I'm assuming anything?  You should know by now that if I am indeed making an assumption, I'll preface as such.

Now then ... I assume that the Texans DA parents you "know" are of the 05 variety, in which case they are a pilot program and do not have the same guidelines placed upon them by the USSDA.  If you're referring to U14+, that's a completely different animal and violations of those guidelines could land them in a heap o trouble with USSDA ... Although I'd buy that the Texans aren't properly following USSDA policies -- after all, they are led by the man himself ... HN.  If true, that sucks for those kids that are being short changed.

And since you are tickled by the daily individual player physical and mental monitoring ... Yes -- FCD has a "shrink" on staff Wink


So how does Ussda get to the bottom of this?  I'd hate to see a club get in a heap of trouble for breaking kids soccer laws.

Ohhhh By the way.  Are you buying or selling the BS below.....Good stuff BigE.  Medicine man might be right....are you the real slim shady?

game film study, weekly regeneration training, daily individual player physical & mental monitoring

Riiight jackie ...

I just made it all up -- Cuz nobody on this forum could call BS on this stuff  Rolling Eyes

This is gettin a lil' uncomfortable ... I feel like Bob Sugar giving you the three finger wave.  Have fun in the sandbox with BigBoy there Jerry --

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Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by Zizou on 11/10/17, 05:23 pm

USSDA DD has weekly game film analysis and coaches every Monday send huddle film with a critique of her play. Possession balls, penetrating balls, tackles, steals etc. and a grade. The club has a physio that monitors food intake playing time, rest, and injury prevention. So yes at some clubs these things are happening. Some just must be at the wrong club.

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Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by Medicine Man on 11/10/17, 05:31 pm

Zizou knows the real slim shady.

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Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by KeeperCommander on 11/10/17, 05:42 pm

Medicine Man wrote:Zizou knows the real slim shady.
Short white guy, rhymes when he talks?

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Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by SickofStupidity on 11/10/17, 06:22 pm

BigErn wrote:Yes -- SoS ... fantastic stuff!  

Why are you under the impression that I'm assuming anything?  You should know by now that if I am indeed making an assumption, I'll preface as such.

Now then ... I assume that the Texans DA parents you "know" are of the 05 variety, in which case they are a pilot program and do not have the same guidelines placed upon them by the USSDA.  If you're referring to U14+, that's a completely different animal and violations of those guidelines could land them in a heap o trouble with USSDA ... Although I'd buy that the Texans aren't properly following USSDA policies -- after all, they are led by the man himself ... HN.  If true, that sucks for those kids that are being short changed.

And since you are tickled by the daily individual player physical and mental monitoring ... Yes -- FCD has a "shrink" on staff Wink


Yes, you assume wrong

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Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by Medicine Man on 11/10/17, 06:51 pm

Zizou knows slim shady KC. Why don't you ask him who he is.

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Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by KeeperCommander on 11/10/17, 07:13 pm

Medicine Man wrote:Zizou knows slim shady KC. Why don't you ask him who he is.
Because I don’t care

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Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by Medicine Man on 11/10/17, 07:17 pm

Don't turn your back on the slim shady KC.

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Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by soccerjack on 11/10/17, 08:59 pm

Medicine Man wrote:Don't turn your back on the slim shady KC.


You're giving me a hood Buzz BigBoyBently/Shonuff/medicine man/Ned Ryerson/Bigern/the 50 other alias' you have on this board. Can't you do another ground hog day spoof? That was good stuff. Maybe just hate on GA and DTS? That was fun. Just changing your avatar and saying the same crap over and over gets kind of old, your Bigern alias is the worst, everyone knows that nobody can be as naïve as you make him sound.
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Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by BigErn on 11/10/17, 09:40 pm

SickofStupidity wrote:
BigErn wrote:Yes -- SoS ... fantastic stuff!  

Why are you under the impression that I'm assuming anything?  You should know by now that if I am indeed making an assumption, I'll preface as such.

Now then ... I assume that the Texans DA parents you "know" are of the 05 variety, in which case they are a pilot program and do not have the same guidelines placed upon them by the USSDA.  If you're referring to U14+, that's a completely different animal and violations of those guidelines could land them in a heap o trouble with USSDA ... Although I'd buy that the Texans aren't properly following USSDA policies -- after all, they are led by the man himself ... HN.  If true, that sucks for those kids that are being short changed.

And since you are tickled by the daily individual player physical and mental monitoring ... Yes -- FCD has a "shrink" on staff Wink


Yes, you assume wrong

Well, hell Stupidity ... of course I do.  Probably would've been wrong even it I hadn't been huh?

Poor kids ... If you're friends with these folks, why would ya want to drag their club through the mud here?  Best to keep this cat in the bag, don'tcha think?

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Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by soccermom0399 on 11/10/17, 11:34 pm

What makes GA, as a coach, ECNL worthy now? I know he didn't enroll in any additional courses or clinics this summer. So he is basically training in the same format he has always been.

Not sure anyone can answer this one other than saying GA didn't have the USSF B to coach a DA squad, those DTS parents & kids wanted to participate in ECNL, and HN didn't want to lose all of that talent?


Not sure what the USSF B license has to do with being able to coach a DA squad as I have heard of head DA coaches at FCD and Texans don't have the B license required to coach DA. So GA not having a B license probably isn't the reason he is not coaching the DA
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Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by dadof3 on 11/10/17, 11:35 pm

BigErn wrote:
OLJW wrote:The problem with the old system was it didn't elimate outliers that managed to succeed through competition. The new system solved that by restricting who gets to compete. Great system, the Chinese have been using it to select leaders for decades.

Just as clever as it is adorable OLJW --

The thing is though ... Any of these kids (including your own) are welcome to tryout for any the teams playing in the new system you've so cunningly referred to, and therefore, can indeed still succeed through competition  Wink

I think that the point was not referring to the lack of competition at the player level as much as at the club level...the point is that if you are not on a big 5 3 DA roster, you don't get a seat at the table...

It trickles down from there...5 at ECNL...now 6 LP??, composites, JDLs, etc.

You don't play in the JDL league with the "top talent" from the five clubs that participate if you aren't on a JDL roster...so your point-you can try out for a team ($$)...but it keeps independent teams that aren't in that crowd from playing that competition consistently...

The squeeze started a few years ago to LP when the 5 clubs went to ECNL (and eventually LW, CP, and many top LP coaches left to ECNL clubs...because they couldn't offer what those clubs could...and therefore couldn't COMPETE). Same with Kicks (until they joined forces with an ECNL club) for years despite the fact they were had teams that could compete with any of the other top teams given a chance...

The competition isn't closed to talent...but it is certainly restricted by money and clubs. The fact that there are scholarships offered to some talented kids (and always were if your coach would take the cut in pay) on the top teams (funded by everyone else in the club) opens the door somewhat to those who can't/won't pay...but there is certainly a competitive...oligarchy, and therefore a competitive imbalance...and I would say more like Russia-oops.
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Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by Blues Fan on 12/10/17, 07:43 am

soccermom0399 wrote:What makes GA, as a coach, ECNL worthy now? I know he didn't enroll in any additional courses or clinics this summer. So he is basically training in the same format he has always been.

Not sure anyone can answer this one other than saying GA didn't have the USSF B to coach a DA squad, those DTS parents & kids wanted to participate in ECNL, and HN didn't want to lose all of that talent?


Not sure what the USSF B license has to do with being able to coach a DA squad as I have heard of head DA coaches at FCD and Texans don't have the B license required to coach DA.  So GA not having a B license probably isn't the reason he is not coaching the DA


So which FCD head DA coach doesn't have at the very minimum, a B license? I think your source might have given you some bad info.
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Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by SickofStupidity on 12/10/17, 09:21 am

Ultimately, BigE, maybe you just can’t realize that everyone here doesn’t see North Texas soccer as all rainbows, lollipops, and unicorns.  Not every club operates the same as yours (and guess what – not every DA team operates the same as yours).

Many people have had bad experiences due to a multitude of reasons.  So I can imagine, as a coach, that it might hit a little close to home when many of these bad experiences are driven by unscrupulous coaches.  You take some sick joy in coming on here to discount people’s stories of lies, deception, untruths, bait and switch, and what they perceive as unfair treatment by coaches (adults, or should at least act like it) and clubs perpetrated upon kids.  Yes, I know that you never experienced it with your kids – but you know what?  That doesn’t mean it didn’t happen to others.  (and frankly, no one cares that it didn’t happen in your rainbow world)

You come here to spew out your "facts” because you are “in the know”, even though, to the best of my knowledge, you don’t coach nor are in a leadership position with one of the North Texas clubs.  When you over-exaggerate your position, you attempt to deflect by demeaning other posters, or disappear for a time.   (You must think you are cute or clever calling people “Sir” or “partner” and using words like “purty” – real slick, maybe it's a West Texas thing? - but ultimately you just come off as a pompous ass.)


Yes, per your MO you will come on here to deny being incorrect, over-exaggerating, twisting you statements, or disappearing – so let’s recap -

“The vast majority of Boy's programs are free as are a growing number of Girl's programs.  Those that aren't are substantially discounted” – no, they ALL aren’t substantially discounted

“There won't be any JDL teams qualifying or playing at LH D1.” – oh, so wrong – JDL teams playing D1, and so desperate for LH slots, playing D3 too.

“For the other 99% of us, we can afford the extra $200-$300/month to have our kids follow their passion and dreams ... just might have to give up the morning Starbucks, 4G LTE data, or a couple movie channels.  My point being here is that we don't have to have "elite" pocketbooks if we have "elite" kids.” – For one, you just come across as an elitist snob.  When I called you out on your extra $200-300/month by giving up a couple movie channels, you decided to re-post your quote, and changed “or” to “and”.  When I called you on it – you disappeared.

JST shared his experience with DA parents -  "Same level of play in the game but as far as the training....its just more of it....so far" – which you promptly had to discount by detailing your experience and asserting that it is the same everywhere.  News Flash – every other team/club is not like yours!  I don’t know what the USSF standards are (but oooh, we were all so impressed by your ability to list them for us), and frankly, don’t care.  For those playing DA, ECNL or at any other level at your or any other club, it’s about their experience (and not about how YOU can chastise them for their “violations of those guidelines”).

Yes, I know you felt the need to let everyone know how great your DD’s club is doing with DA – I mean, wow, daily individual physical and mental monitoring.  (I did ask what daily mental monitoring is, and not surprisingly, I didn’t receive a response.)

Inviting people out to see DA soccer because it is the only “real” soccer (yes, we all know your DD plays DA) again just makes you look pretentious.


Ultimately - everyone else's experience is not like yours!  If you showed a little humility and were less demeaning, you might come across as less of a pompous soccer elitist.

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Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by SoccerPunch on 12/10/17, 09:56 am


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Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by Medicine Man on 12/10/17, 10:56 am

The Slim Shady is in the house!!!!!!

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