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Post by KeeperCommander on 27/10/17, 02:27 pm

Blob wrote:OMGeeeee!  I know you asked SoccerPunch but the sarcastic tenor of your question needs a response I suppose. So, I'll answer for MY DD's team and say "YES" they will consistently punch above their weight class in tourneys. That's the purpose of the tournament, is it not?  Challenge the group, play teams you normally don't see, and build unity (even moreso out of town).  I'm not sure what you want to accomplish by asking SP that anyway...not all teams are trophy hunting ass.
To some the purpose of a tournament is to get some hardware in 3 days of games. Trophy hunting is all that some parents care about. To accomplish this you have to find those tournaments that you are the best team entered.
Some of the best coaches only play those that the talent level is equal or better than their team.
And so on...

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Post by Medicine Man on 27/10/17, 04:45 pm

DA old news KC we need a new league you name it. What do you think we should call the next layer in the pyramid. Maybe we should add a middle layer. We can work the system w one more.

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Post by Lefty on 30/10/17, 09:44 am

Medicine Man wrote:Unless they adopt the rules like Plano league where it's a closed roster, the pyramid model continues to rule the other leagues. The Bigs run this sideshow. I don't see much changing unless the parents quit buying their product and look for other options of development and path.

It is not that complicated.

Only reason 'rosters / teams' exist in LH is for the clubs to have a mechanism to bind the players/parents to a contract to pay.

In practice, the rules are set up so the rosters are mostly 'fixed/restricted' from a players ability to move around and play with who they want, but mostly 'open' in respect to the clubs ability to vary who is on the roster game day to suit the needs of their business.

Called having your cake and eating it too!

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Post by Big Ern on 30/10/17, 10:17 am

Lefty wrote:
Medicine Man wrote:Unless they adopt the rules like Plano league where it's a closed roster, the pyramid model continues to rule the other leagues. The Bigs run this sideshow. I don't see much changing unless the parents quit buying their product and look for other options of development and path.

It is not that complicated.

Only reason 'rosters / teams' exist in LH is for the clubs to have a mechanism to bind the players/parents to a contract to pay.

In practice, the rules are set up so the rosters are mostly 'fixed/restricted' from a players ability to move around and play with who they want, but mostly 'open' in respect to the clubs ability to vary who is on the roster game day to suit the needs of their business.

Called having your cake and eating it too!

Also know as reality when it comes to a non recreational, competitive environment.

Let's all imagine how complicated things would be if kids were free to go to this team and then to that team from week to week ...

"How come Andrew gets to get up?  If he gets up, we'll all get up, it'll be anarchy!"

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Post by SickofStupidity on 30/10/17, 10:23 am

BigErn wrote:
Lefty wrote:
Medicine Man wrote:Unless they adopt the rules like Plano league where it's a closed roster, the pyramid model continues to rule the other leagues. The Bigs run this sideshow. I don't see much changing unless the parents quit buying their product and look for other options of development and path.

It is not that complicated.

Only reason 'rosters / teams' exist in LH is for the clubs to have a mechanism to bind the players/parents to a contract to pay.

In practice, the rules are set up so the rosters are mostly 'fixed/restricted' from a players ability to move around and play with who they want, but mostly 'open' in respect to the clubs ability to vary who is on the roster game day to suit the needs of their business.

Called having your cake and eating it too!

Also know as reality when it comes to a non recreational, competitive environment.

Let's all imagine how complicated things would be if kids were free to go to this team and then to that team from week to week ...

"How come Andrew gets to get up?  If he gets up, we'll all get up, it'll be anarchy!"


It would never work.

"Screws fall out all the time, the world is an imperfect place."

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Post by KeeperCommander on 30/10/17, 10:38 am

SickofStupidity wrote:
BigErn wrote:
Lefty wrote:
Medicine Man wrote:Unless they adopt the rules like Plano league where it's a closed roster, the pyramid model continues to rule the other leagues. The Bigs run this sideshow. I don't see much changing unless the parents quit buying their product and look for other options of development and path.

It is not that complicated.

Only reason 'rosters / teams' exist in LH is for the clubs to have a mechanism to bind the players/parents to a contract to pay.

In practice, the rules are set up so the rosters are mostly 'fixed/restricted' from a players ability to move around and play with who they want, but mostly 'open' in respect to the clubs ability to vary who is on the roster game day to suit the needs of their business.

Called having your cake and eating it too!

Also know as reality when it comes to a non recreational, competitive environment.

Let's all imagine how complicated things would be if kids were free to go to this team and then to that team from week to week ...

"How come Andrew gets to get up?  If he gets up, we'll all get up, it'll be anarchy!"


It would never work.

"Screws fall out all the time, the world is an imperfect place."
It actually works quite well with basketball. You can play for who you want to.

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Post by Lefty on 30/10/17, 10:40 am

BigErn wrote:
Lefty wrote:
Medicine Man wrote:Unless they adopt the rules like Plano league where it's a closed roster, the pyramid model continues to rule the other leagues. The Bigs run this sideshow. I don't see much changing unless the parents quit buying their product and look for other options of development and path.

It is not that complicated.

Only reason 'rosters / teams' exist in LH is for the clubs to have a mechanism to bind the players/parents to a contract to pay.

In practice, the rules are set up so the rosters are mostly 'fixed/restricted' from a players ability to move around and play with who they want, but mostly 'open' in respect to the clubs ability to vary who is on the roster game day to suit the needs of their business.

Called having your cake and eating it too!

Also know as reality when it comes to a non recreational, competitive environment.

Let's all imagine how complicated things would be if kids were free to go to this team and then to that team from week to week ...

"How come Andrew gets to get up?  If he gets up, we'll all get up, it'll be anarchy!"

Think the big issue is that parents do not realize who LH recognizes as their primary customer has evolved over the years from the players/parents, with the clubs being who they governed,  to the primary customer being the clubs (particularly the larger ones) who own the players as customers.

From a LH staying in business perspective, it would be a whole lot easier for the clubs to take the players and set up another league, than for LH to cater to the players and to try and gain them back as primary customers and offend the clubs and disrupt the clubs business model.

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Post by KeeperCommander on 30/10/17, 10:44 am

Lefty wrote:
BigErn wrote:
Lefty wrote:
Medicine Man wrote:Unless they adopt the rules like Plano league where it's a closed roster, the pyramid model continues to rule the other leagues. The Bigs run this sideshow. I don't see much changing unless the parents quit buying their product and look for other options of development and path.

It is not that complicated.

Only reason 'rosters / teams' exist in LH is for the clubs to have a mechanism to bind the players/parents to a contract to pay.

In practice, the rules are set up so the rosters are mostly 'fixed/restricted' from a players ability to move around and play with who they want, but mostly 'open' in respect to the clubs ability to vary who is on the roster game day to suit the needs of their business.

Called having your cake and eating it too!

Also know as reality when it comes to a non recreational, competitive environment.

Let's all imagine how complicated things would be if kids were free to go to this team and then to that team from week to week ...

"How come Andrew gets to get up?  If he gets up, we'll all get up, it'll be anarchy!"

Think the big issue is that parents do not realize who LH recognizes as their primary customer has evolved over the years from the players/parents, with the clubs being who they governed,  to the primary customer being the clubs (particularly the larger ones) who own the players as customers.

From a LH staying in business perspective it would be a whole lot easier for the clubs to take the players and set up another league, than for LH to cater to the players and to try and gain them back as primary customers and offend the clubs and disrupt the clubs business model.
They never had to think about it till now, because it did not matter.

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Post by Lefty on 30/10/17, 10:49 am

BigErn wrote:
Lefty wrote:
Medicine Man wrote:Unless they adopt the rules like Plano league where it's a closed roster, the pyramid model continues to rule the other leagues. The Bigs run this sideshow. I don't see much changing unless the parents quit buying their product and look for other options of development and path.

It is not that complicated.

Only reason 'rosters / teams' exist in LH is for the clubs to have a mechanism to bind the players/parents to a contract to pay.

In practice, the rules are set up so the rosters are mostly 'fixed/restricted' from a players ability to move around and play with who they want, but mostly 'open' in respect to the clubs ability to vary who is on the roster game day to suit the needs of their business.

Called having your cake and eating it too!

Also know as reality when it comes to a non recreational, competitive environment.

Let's all imagine how complicated things would be if kids were free to go to this team and then to that team from week to week ...

"How come Andrew gets to get up?  If he gets up, we'll all get up, it'll be anarchy!"

So I assume that Baseball, Basketball, Football all operate in a similar manner to Soccer?

Seems to me that the way youth soccer is set up today, is to primarily benefit the 'coaches'?

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Post by KeeperCommander on 30/10/17, 10:51 am

Ummm, No.

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Post by SickofStupidity on 30/10/17, 10:54 am

Taken from the LHGCL by-laws:

The affairs of the Classic League shall be managed by the Board of Directors.

Each Officer, except the immediate Past President and LHSA Representative, shall be elected by a majority vote of the team representatives (one vote per team)

Voting Rights. Each LHGCL Officer and Director shall be entitled to one vote. All other Members shall be represented through the team with which they are associated. Each team shall be entitled to one vote per team on each matter submitted to a vote of the Members. A team representative is defined as the team’s coach, manager, or other person selected by the team’s coach to represent the team at a meeting.

Proposed amendments to these Bylaws may be submitted to the Board of Directors by any Officer or any four (4) teams participating in the League. A majority vote of the Board members present at a meeting at which a quorum is present is required to approve any amendment(s).



Why would clubs need to take players to another league when LHGCL is run by the teams (and thus by the clubs)?

Decisions are made either by the board (selected by the clubs) or voted upon . . . by the clubs.

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Post by Big Ern on 30/10/17, 11:06 am

Thanks SoS ... Did not know this ^ and makes sense.

KC -- Are you saying that in other competitive sports environments with professional coaching, that those clubs/coaches don't have the ability to set rosters as they wish?

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Post by KeeperCommander on 30/10/17, 11:08 am

BigErn wrote:Thanks SoS ... Did not know this ^ and makes sense.

KC -- Are you saying that in other competitive sports environments with professional coaching, that those clubs/coaches don't have the ability to set rosters as they wish?
I am saying that in basketball you can play for who you wish, and it works quite well.

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Post by Lefty on 30/10/17, 11:13 am

BigErn wrote:Thanks SoS ... Did not know this ^ and makes sense.

KC -- Are you saying that in other competitive sports environments with professional coaching, that those clubs/coaches don't have the ability to set rosters as they wish?

Playing pretty fast and loose with the term 'professional coaching'.

Assume for your purposes here 'professional' simply means that they get paid and have a certification that most any HS graduate and (some non-HS graduates) can get?

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Post by SickofStupidity on 30/10/17, 11:15 am

Lefty wrote:
BigErn wrote:Thanks SoS ... Did not know this ^ and makes sense.

KC -- Are you saying that in other competitive sports environments with professional coaching, that those clubs/coaches don't have the ability to set rosters as they wish?

Playing pretty fast and loose with the term 'professional coaching'.  

Assume for your purposes here 'professional' simply means that they get paid and have a certification that most any HS graduate and (some non-HS graduates) can get?


Has to be - FC Dallas apparently allows "F" licenses for academy coaches.

You know, where kids were free to go to this team and then to that team from week to week ...

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Post by KeeperCommander on 30/10/17, 11:17 am

Lefty wrote:
BigErn wrote:Thanks SoS ... Did not know this ^ and makes sense.

KC -- Are you saying that in other competitive sports environments with professional coaching, that those clubs/coaches don't have the ability to set rosters as they wish?

Playing pretty fast and loose with the term 'professional coaching'.  

Assume for your purposes here 'professional' simply means that they get paid and have a certification that most any HS graduate and (some non-HS graduates) can get?
Yes that is what he means

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Post by Big Ern on 30/10/17, 11:22 am

KeeperCommander wrote:
BigErn wrote:Thanks SoS ... Did not know this ^ and makes sense.

KC -- Are you saying that in other competitive sports environments with professional coaching, that those clubs/coaches don't have the ability to set rosters as they wish?
I am saying that in basketball you can play for who you wish, and it works quite well.

Hmmm ...

So this week Team A plays Team B, with Team C and D playing on the next court.  Three players from A like the way Team B played and want to play with them next week.  Father of a kid on Team D loves the way Coach A interacted with his players and Mother of twins on Team C finds out that her neighbor from down the street has a kid on Team B and they can carpool.

Next week Team A is two players short and doesn't have anyone that can bring the ball up the court.  Team B has 5 more players than last week so three players don't get on the court.  Team C has no subs and Team D is missing a 5.

Harmonious.

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Post by SickofStupidity on 30/10/17, 11:25 am

BigErn wrote:
KeeperCommander wrote:
BigErn wrote:Thanks SoS ... Did not know this ^ and makes sense.

KC -- Are you saying that in other competitive sports environments with professional coaching, that those clubs/coaches don't have the ability to set rosters as they wish?
I am saying that in basketball you can play for who you wish, and it works quite well.

Hmmm ...

So this week Team A plays Team B, with Team C and D playing on the next court.  Three players from A like the way Team B played and want to play with them next week.  Father of a kid on Team D loves the way Coach A interacted with his players and Mother of twins on Team C finds out that her neighbor from down the street has a kid on Team B and they can carpool.

Next week Team A is two players short and doesn't have anyone that can bring the ball up the court.  Team B has 5 more players than last week so three players don't get on the court.  Team C has no subs and Team D is missing a 5.

Harmonious.

and this differs from Academy soccer . . . how?



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Post by Big Ern on 30/10/17, 11:31 am

Lefty wrote:
BigErn wrote:Thanks SoS ... Did not know this ^ and makes sense.

KC -- Are you saying that in other competitive sports environments with professional coaching, that those clubs/coaches don't have the ability to set rosters as they wish?

Playing pretty fast and loose with the term 'professional coaching'.  

Assume for your purposes here 'professional' simply means that they get paid and have a certification that most any HS graduate and (some non-HS graduates) can get?

Absolutely Lefty --

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, there are certainly many undeserving 'professional' coaches out there.

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Post by Medicine Man on 30/10/17, 12:04 pm

It's definitely a racket. The pyramid scheme was all decided years ago when the clubs had their pow wow and the league directors bought into it...more teams more cash flow and non development of the players so the bigs have the fix and sprinkle in the players as needed to beat the rec teams that slip into the big party.

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Post by Lefty on 30/10/17, 12:12 pm

BigErn wrote:
KeeperCommander wrote:
BigErn wrote:Thanks SoS ... Did not know this ^ and makes sense.

KC -- Are you saying that in other competitive sports environments with professional coaching, that those clubs/coaches don't have the ability to set rosters as they wish?
I am saying that in basketball you can play for who you wish, and it works quite well.

Hmmm ...

So this week Team A plays Team B, with Team C and D playing on the next court.  Three players from A like the way Team B played and want to play with them next week.  Father of a kid on Team D loves the way Coach A interacted with his players and Mother of twins on Team C finds out that her neighbor from down the street has a kid on Team B and they can carpool.

Next week Team A is two players short and doesn't have anyone that can bring the ball up the court.  Team B has 5 more players than last week so three players don't get on the court.  Team C has no subs and Team D is missing a 5.

Harmonious.

Guess it depends on your view of harmony and the value of it from different perspectives.

From a coaches view - harmony may = protected cash flow for the year, not accountable to anyone for a year

From a players view - harmony may mean I can't get to a better situation to continue or accelerate my development, or just get away from a bad coach for a year

From the overall system view - does not allow coaches to lose their players and $ over night if they are not perceived as a good option by the players.  Is that a good or bad thing?

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Post by KeeperCommander on 30/10/17, 12:56 pm

BigErn wrote:
KeeperCommander wrote:
BigErn wrote:Thanks SoS ... Did not know this ^ and makes sense.

KC -- Are you saying that in other competitive sports environments with professional coaching, that those clubs/coaches don't have the ability to set rosters as they wish?
I am saying that in basketball you can play for who you wish, and it works quite well.

Hmmm ...

So this week Team A plays Team B, with Team C and D playing on the next court.  Three players from A like the way Team B played and want to play with them next week.  Father of a kid on Team D loves the way Coach A interacted with his players and Mother of twins on Team C finds out that her neighbor from down the street has a kid on Team B and they can carpool.

Next week Team A is two players short and doesn't have anyone that can bring the ball up the court.  Team B has 5 more players than last week so three players don't get on the court.  Team C has no subs and Team D is missing a 5.

Harmonious.
Not exactly but sort of.
Pay to play model is necessary in US because no sport not even football, basketball or baseball could support a youth program on a scale that would be developmental for all that would like to play. It costs too much money to operate. I am deeply sorry everybody has to pay to play soccer. You guys go right along with all those that think college should be free too. I would love for both to be free but it isn’t going to happen so......

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Post by Lefty on 30/10/17, 01:13 pm

College is free if you are smart enough just like soccer is free if you are good enough!

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Post by Foxysoccermom on 30/10/17, 01:24 pm

Foxy would be willing to throw out some free love, if any of you were good at it. Pretty sure that's not the case though.
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Post by KeeperCommander on 30/10/17, 02:27 pm

Lefty wrote:College is free if you are smart enough just like soccer is free if you are good enough!
Nothing is free. Not all scholarship $ is tax free. Remember that.

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Post by Medicine Man on 30/10/17, 03:29 pm

Maybe I will get a Halloween cupcake w some sprinkles on it and cut it into small pieces w my big knife.

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