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Quiet Forum

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by SickofStupidity on 01/12/17, 12:54 pm

Sorry, missed the part where competitiveness over the course of a season was based on goal differential.  I thought it was based on win-loss record.  Maybe we could get all the leagues to change their rankings to goal differential, then get them to add a really bad team everyone could beat up on to boost their "competitive" goal differential.  Rolling Eyes

I'm sure the fans in Philadelphia thought their MLS team was "competitive" this season too.

So basically, you are saying we can expect FCD to have one really good team in each age group, but after that, a bunch of crappy ones because their second tier players are competing against everyone else's first teamers?  Now that is about the stupidest thing you have said on this board (and that is saying a lot).  Even if you look just to NTX ECNL clubs - 5 of them - FCD generally finds themselves at the bottom (even compared to Texans and Solar "second-teamers").

Each DA team had access to all the top talent in NTX - and let's assume that most top talent gravitated there.  Next we had the pool of players after the top 50.  That pool was free to join any ECNL team - FCD, Solar, Feet, etc.  One would think that this "second tier" talent distribution would be spread relatively evenly across the clubs - unless there was another "draw" (location, coach, cost, club history . . . DA club, etc.)  

And the assertion that has been made numerous times, is that the draw - their DA status - would lead to the consolidation of talent to DA clubs.  That the Big 3 ECNL teams are just one step below their DA teams - a selling point ECNL-only clubs don't have.

Yes, yes, I know we are only 1 year in, but maybe, just maybe, what we are seeing is:
  (1) the DA "draw" just wasn't there for non-DA players,
  (2) the DA draw was there, but the coaches weren't able to produce results, or
  (3) the DA draw was there, but FCD ECNL coaches are focusing on development and not winning

And as for Solar . . . way more competitive than FCD - in win-loss AND (aside from U14) your goal-differential measure.

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by BigErn on 01/12/17, 02:50 pm

SickofStupidity wrote:Sorry, missed the part where competitiveness over the course of a season was based on goal differential.  I thought it was based on win-loss record.  Maybe we could get all the leagues to change their rankings to goal differential, then get them to add a really bad team everyone could beat up on to boost their "competitive" goal differential.  Rolling Eyes

If you think win/loss record is the only measurable when determining the level of competitiveness of a team, I just can't help ya Sir.  When looking at the U14 ECNL bracket today, I'd say that it is generally, with the exception of Sting Austin, a competitive and somewhat 'even' group' ... Since the 8th place(?) team is losing it's matches by a single goal on average and all -- I dunno ... call me crazy.

I'm sure the fans in Philadelphia thought their MLS team was "competitive" this season too.

So basically, you are saying we can expect FCD to have one really good team in each age group, but after that, a bunch of crappy ones because their second tier players are competing against everyone else's first teamers?  Now that is about the stupidest thing you have said on this board (and that is saying a lot).  Even if you look just to NTX ECNL clubs - 5 of them - FCD generally finds themselves at the bottom (even compared to Texans and Solar "second-teamers").

I grant you ... it isn't a easy concept to grasp.  Maybe liken it to having the Sting or DFeeters ECNL Composite/CL/whatever team play against the Solar, FCD or Texans ECNL sides ... see if they can't make up that 1 goal they're missin'.  So ... please explain how that's the "stupidest thing" ... go on Son.  While you're at it, how bout you troll a bit more and dig up some more stupid things I've said over the years.

Each DA team had access to all the top talent in NTX - and let's assume that most top talent gravitated there.  Next we had the pool of players after the top 50.  That pool was free to join any ECNL team - FCD, Solar, Feet, etc.  One would think that this "second tier" talent distribution would be spread relatively evenly across the clubs - unless there was another "draw" (location, coach, cost, club history . . . DA club, etc.)  

You're kidding right?  C'mon now Sir ... None of the kids that came out to DA tryouts at FCD or Solar think they're 'second tier', and nor do their parents.  The better of those kids that were turned away ended up at Sting ECNL, DFeeters ECNL or Texans DA.

And the assertion that has been made numerous times, is that the draw - their DA status - would lead to the consolidation of talent to DA clubs.  That the Big 3 ECNL teams are just one step below their DA teams - a selling point ECNL-only clubs don't have.

Yes, yes, I know we are only 1 year in, but maybe, just maybe, what we are seeing is:
  (1) the DA "draw" just wasn't there for non-DA players,
  (2) the DA draw was there, but the coaches weren't able to produce results, or
  (3) the DA draw was there, but FCD ECNL coaches are focusing on development and not winning

We're about, say ... 9 months away from "1 year in" there junior.  The reality is that there wasn't much of any "draw" due to apprehension from uncertainty -- that will come soon and unfortunately for naysayers like yourself, will steamroll over the next few years.  That being said, there will always be those kids turned away each year that have it ingrained that they aren't 'second tier' and will wind up over at Sting or Dfeeters ECNL again ... which I'd expect, will continue to have better W/L results than FCD and Solar in future ECNL tables.  

And as for Solar . . . way more competitive than FCD - in win-loss AND (aside from U14) your goal-differential measure.

Not sure if this is true (irrelevant to your argument anyway), but have a look at the DA results between the two clubs ... as much as it pains me to say it -- the upper hand when it comes to elite female talent in NTX is swinging to FCD.

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by SickofStupidity on 01/12/17, 02:55 pm

BigErn wrote:
SickofStupidity wrote:Sorry, missed the part where competitiveness over the course of a season was based on goal differential.  I thought it was based on win-loss record.  Maybe we could get all the leagues to change their rankings to goal differential, then get them to add a really bad team everyone could beat up on to boost their "competitive" goal differential.  Rolling Eyes

If you think win/loss record is the only measurable when determining the level of competitiveness of a team, I just can't help ya Sir.  When looking at the U14 ECNL bracket today, I'd say that it is generally, with the exception of Sting Austin, a competitive and somewhat 'even' group' ... Since the 8th place(?) team is losing it's matches by a single goal on average and all -- I dunno ... call me crazy.

I'm sure the fans in Philadelphia thought their MLS team was "competitive" this season too.

So basically, you are saying we can expect FCD to have one really good team in each age group, but after that, a bunch of crappy ones because their second tier players are competing against everyone else's first teamers?  Now that is about the stupidest thing you have said on this board (and that is saying a lot).  Even if you look just to NTX ECNL clubs - 5 of them - FCD generally finds themselves at the bottom (even compared to Texans and Solar "second-teamers").

I grant you ... it isn't a easy concept to grasp.  Maybe liken it to having the Sting or DFeeters ECNL Composite/CL/whatever team play against the Solar, FCD or Texans ECNL sides ... see if they can't make up that 1 goal they're missin'.  So ... please explain how that's the "stupidest thing" ... go on Son.  While you're at it, how bout you troll a bit more and dig up some more stupid things I've said over the years.

Each DA team had access to all the top talent in NTX - and let's assume that most top talent gravitated there.  Next we had the pool of players after the top 50.  That pool was free to join any ECNL team - FCD, Solar, Feet, etc.  One would think that this "second tier" talent distribution would be spread relatively evenly across the clubs - unless there was another "draw" (location, coach, cost, club history . . . DA club, etc.)  

You're kidding right?  C'mon now Sir ... None of the kids that came out to DA tryouts at FCD or Solar think they're 'second tier', and nor do their parents.  The better of those kids that were turned away ended up at Sting ECNL, DFeeters ECNL or Texans DA.

And the assertion that has been made numerous times, is that the draw - their DA status - would lead to the consolidation of talent to DA clubs.  That the Big 3 ECNL teams are just one step below their DA teams - a selling point ECNL-only clubs don't have.

Yes, yes, I know we are only 1 year in, but maybe, just maybe, what we are seeing is:
  (1) the DA "draw" just wasn't there for non-DA players,
  (2) the DA draw was there, but the coaches weren't able to produce results, or
  (3) the DA draw was there, but FCD ECNL coaches are focusing on development and not winning

We're about, say ... 9 months away from "1 year in" there junior.  The reality is that there wasn't much of any "draw" due to apprehension from uncertainty -- that will come soon and unfortunately for naysayers like yourself, will steamroll over the next few years.  That being said, there will always be those kids turned away each year that have it ingrained that they aren't 'second tier' and will wind up over at Sting or Dfeeters ECNL again ... which I'd expect, will continue to have better W/L results than FCD and Solar in future ECNL tables.  

And as for Solar . . . way more competitive than FCD - in win-loss AND (aside from U14) your goal-differential measure.

Not sure if this is true (irrelevant to your argument anyway), but have a look at the DA results between the two clubs ... as much as it pains me to say it -- the upper hand when it comes to elite female talent in NTX is swinging to FCD.

"Second tier" after the first 50, douche.

So, why didn't those rejected by FCD end up on the FCD ECNL team, with the hope of eventually making the FCD DA team (much more likely to make an impression on FCD coaching by staying within the system and being seen regularly by FCD coaches)?

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by BigErn on 01/12/17, 03:20 pm

Now, now ... Why does it always have to come to duragatory name calling SoS?

You don't know when to quit, do ya Sir?  Here's an idea ... Rather than get all worked up every time you engage in some futile argument with me, we'll just go out back, I'll kick you in the nuts, and we'll call it a day --

Oh, and btw ... You can find the answer to your question not once, but twice written in orange -- gonna require you to read through the material though.

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by SickofStupidity on 01/12/17, 03:41 pm

Maybe it's because you are just a king ass.

And if that really is the case, that kids are leaving FCD DA tryouts, skipping FCD ECNL (or not effectively being recruited), and heading to Feet ECNL because they "want to play on the club's #1 team over playing on a ECNL team for a DA club" how does that ever change? FCD's ECNL team will always be their #2 team.

or maybe, the DA "draw" just isn't as strong as you would like think

apprehension from uncertainty? That prevented FCD from forming "competitive" ECNL teams across all age groups? Was it the uncertainty as to the quality of FCD ECNL teams? I guess they had good reason. That "apprehension" didn't seen to extend across the board to Texans and Solar.


Funny - the "Quiet Forum" post again turned into the "BigE, It's All About Me and DA" post.   Again.

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by soccerdadtx on 01/12/17, 03:50 pm

[quote="NoSpinZone"]ECNL going away anyway for Solar, FCD, and Texans.  Not enough talent around to fill both DA and ECNL(8 teams, 5 ECNL and 3 DA).

The top ECNL players will either go DA or move to another ECNL club.  Which moves those that want ECNL to Sting or DFeeters.  Unless LP gets the rumored callup.  So maybe 3 DA, 3 ECNL( 6 teams including LP) probably 1 too many of each, but is what it is. Don't see Solar or Texans giving up DA, absolutely no way for FCD.

Changes a coming![/quote]

Is that a fact that ECNL is going away for the Big 3? How do you know that? Wish we parents knew about it.....

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by BigErn on 01/12/17, 04:00 pm

SickofStupidity wrote:Maybe it's because you are just a king ass.

And if that really is the case, that kids are leaving FCD DA tryouts, skipping FCD ECNL (or not effectively being recruited), and heading to Feet ECNL because they "want to play on the club's #1 team over playing on a ECNL team for a DA club" how does that ever change?  FCD's ECNL team will always be their #2 team.

or maybe, the DA "draw" just isn't as strong as you would like think

apprehension from uncertainty?  That prevented FCD from forming "competitive" ECNL teams across all age groups?  Was it the uncertainty as to the quality of FCD ECNL teams?  I guess they had good reason.  That "apprehension" didn't seen to extend across the board to Texans and Solar.


Funny - the "Quiet Forum" post again turned into the "BigE, It's All About Me and DA" post.   Again.

That's ^ on you big guy ... We were doing just fine before you couldn't resist that urge to poke the bear (for lack of a better term) -- Simple, straight forward, real life discussion about the reality of what is starting to happen across the country.

And ya can't seem to get it into your lil' noggin that I'm not just an FCD guy ... I have kids at other clubs (including one that you keep referring to) -- as much as you may think you're hurtin' my feelings, it just isn't gonna happen Sport.

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by purplefrog on 01/12/17, 04:23 pm

SickofStupidity wrote:Funny - the "Quiet Forum" post again turned into the "BigE, It's All About Me and DA" post.   Again.

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by Medicine Man on 01/12/17, 04:36 pm

I am dreaming of a white Christmas.

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by SickofStupidity on 01/12/17, 04:37 pm

Yea, BigE, but if you go back an look at the order of posts (they are time and date stamped for you), you will see I didn't show up til you started talking smack about your love fest with college coaches and how much drop off there is in ECNL talent.

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by BigErn on 01/12/17, 05:07 pm

SickofStupidity wrote:Yea, BigE, but if you go back an look at the order of posts (they are time and date stamped for you), you will see I didn't show up til you started talking smack about your love fest with college coaches and how much drop off there is in ECNL talent.

Please Sir (in my best Tiny Tim voice) -- Please let us know where exactly the "smack" talking occured in the following post ...

"Yes JST --

Fantastic trip!  Top notch facilities and competition.  Our girls faced some tough opponents -- Some that play a style unique to most of our usual competition and some that have elite speed we hadn't ever had to deal with ... So many tremendous athletes out there playing our sport!  Also very cool for our girls to have so many college coaches and USYNT folks watching their matches.  Overall excellent experience + exposure!

Gonna be quite a ride with this group --"


Ahhh ... isn't it refreshing to hear on this forum?  Pure, unadulterated real life happenings.  Just JST asking a legitimate question and me providing a legitimate answer.

I hate to ask ... sincerely ... but might this whole tissy have been brought about by a bit of deep seeded resentment?  Or even worse ... jealousy?

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by JonSneauxTargaryen on 01/12/17, 05:08 pm

Mannnn....This is a stalemate. Until we can hear from the coaches and recruiters to confirm, let’s just say DA is the new Walmart and ECNL is the older one. You can get the same thing from both, but the new one has better landscaping.

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by JonSneauxTargaryen on 01/12/17, 05:24 pm

I should have PM’d you BigE.
My bad...this is 25% my fault, the rest is on y’all.

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by RightWingDad on 01/12/17, 05:43 pm

JonSneauxTargaryen wrote:Mannnn....This is a stalemate. Until we can hear from the coaches and recruiters to confirm, let’s just say DA is the new Walmart and ECNL is the older one. You can get the same thing from both, but the new one has better landscaping.

Maybe DA is like the New Wal*Mart you go into where everyone looks pretty-much same as you, maybe better.
ECNL is like the old Wal*Mart you go into and come out thinking "hey, I ain't all that bad looking after all"...especially after midnight ;-)
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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by SickofStupidity on 01/12/17, 06:31 pm

Yea, BigE, but if you go back an look at the order of posts (they are time and date stamped for you), you will see I didn't show up til you started talking smack about your love fest with college coaches and how much drop off there is in ECNL talent.


BigErn wrote:Right ... and I'd like to go on record saying that I don't believe that DA is alone as the only avenue for exposure.  

However, I did speak with quite a few of the college coaches out there that attended the ECNL Fall Phoenix event.  Many were shocked and disappointed to see the level of drop off in talent from what they are used to with ECNL.  After seeing the level at Silver Lakes, they agree with many of us that this is a trend that will continue and is a sign of things to come --


Please, please Sir, tell us you haven't already forgotten this post.

If so, maybe you need to have your little noggin looked at.  or your eyes.

Seems pretty clear.

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by BigErn on 01/12/17, 07:43 pm

Sure JST - I just made it all up Wink

And yes SoS - Same question for ya ... Where is the smack talk here?  Just delivering a lil' truth - Apologies if you can't wrap your head around it.

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by Medicine Man on 01/12/17, 08:41 pm

Watch "Burn Baby Burn, Disco Inferno" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/LH-QwK4v0ZI

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by JonSneauxTargaryen on 01/12/17, 08:57 pm

BigErn wrote:Sure JST - I just made it all up  Wink

And yes SoS - Same question for ya ... Where is the smack talk here?  Just delivering a lil' truth - Apologies if you can't wrap your head around it.


I was serious BigE... I should have PM’d you... I had a feeling it would have come to this. I knew you’d have more detail than the parent I know. I know you...I take you at your word. Trust me.

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by Zizou on 02/12/17, 06:50 am

NTX has always been fascinated with new and shiny toys. I am surprised that DA has had such a impact in just one year. It took ECNL, in my opinion, three years to completely level its competition and their flag wavers. As for the three DA clubs, two of the top three clubs one has great infrastructure and coaching, the other has great coaching. I do not believe the big three are worried about pulling players. ECNL needs to be concerned that the bigs will pull their second tier teams to DA2 and another big from Houston and one from Oklahoma will pull out. USSF will stop at nothing to crush ECNL the bad blood between the two runs deep. Unfortunately ECNL can do nothing to stop it.

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by Holly Hunter on 02/12/17, 11:12 am

Since this is the only forum I follow, I wonder if ALL the NTX sports forums, politics and governance are as bad as the world of Soccer...  My kid is taking NTX Underwater Basket Weaving (figured she could make the national team that way), wonder if the forums will be this entertaining over there?
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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by NoSpinZone on 02/12/17, 11:50 am

Holly Hunter wrote:My kid is taking NTX Underwater Basket Weaving (figured she could make the national team that way), wonder if the forums will be this entertaining over there?

Like the JDL forum, only the top weavers get invited to their forum...so.... there's always volleyball!

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by Medicine Man on 02/12/17, 03:46 pm

Watch "Taps" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/sd7b2v9T1Dw

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by soccerjack on 02/12/17, 05:03 pm

Zizou wrote:NTX has always been fascinated with new and shiny toys. I am surprised that DA has had such a impact in just one year. It took ECNL, in my opinion, three years to completely level its competition and their flag wavers. As for the three DA clubs, two of the top three clubs one has great infrastructure and coaching, the other has great coaching. I do not believe the big three are worried about pulling players. ECNL needs to be concerned that the bigs will pull their second tier teams to DA2 and another big from Houston and one from Oklahoma will pull out. USSF will stop at nothing to crush ECNL the bad blood between the two runs deep. Unfortunately ECNL can do nothing to stop it.

"USSF will stop at nothing to crush ECNL the bad blood between the two runs deep"

This has been my point about DA all along. It has nothing to do with the league....3 Teams in Dallas are going to be a little better than 4 competitive ecnl teams, with an offer to Sting also, it wasn't exactly going to be more exclusive. US soccer federation cares more about power, ego and money than development. There was a special on real sports about a guy that helped turn Japan into a soccer contender and wants to come back to the states, they offered him one state to implement his program, China wants to hire him for their entire country...several people interviewed pointed out how screwed up the federation is, one of them is running for president of the federation. Why people think DA is going to produce better results than ECNL does not make sense logically. 4 to 3 local teams is not a huge consolidation....ANNNDDD it's the same coaches and clubs involved. It is a consolidation of power and money for 3 clubs....So Big E, now you can tell me how the name change makes it work, when it's basically the same kids and coaches....with a trainer now. If it becomes free to the players that earn it...then I think it will be better, but I have faith in the greed of the clubs.

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by Zizou on 02/12/17, 08:59 pm

Well DA is here to stay. I’m not going to get into calling the federation bad. I trust them over some of these DOC’s. A governing body making decisions is better than giving the clubs control.

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by Zizou on 02/12/17, 09:02 pm

I do see one good thing coming from this is a movement of DA to removing the pay to play model at the top level.

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by SickofStupidity on 03/12/17, 06:34 am

Zizou wrote:I do see one good thing coming from this is a movement of DA to removing the pay to play model at the top level.


Is that because DA is free, or because top players couldn't previously get scholarships?

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