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Quiet Forum

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by SickofStupidity on 03/12/17, 06:34 am

Zizou wrote:I do see one good thing coming from this is a movement of DA to removing the pay to play model at the top level.


Is that because DA is free, or because top players couldn't previously get scholarships?

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by Zizou on 03/12/17, 07:01 am

DA for the girls is not free yet, but has been significantly reduced for all players making the DA roster. Yeah, in the past your stud or studs would be scholarshiped but that was it. Working torwards removing the pay to play model across the entire team is a step in the right direction. Dont get me wrong, I have paid my DD way through her soccer career. It has been nice to see even a little of reduced fees at this point.

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by SickofStupidity on 03/12/17, 07:28 am

Zizou wrote:DA for the girls is not free yet, but has been significantly reduced for all players making the DA roster. Yeah, in the past your stud or studs would be scholarshiped but that was it. Working torwards removing the pay to play model across the entire team is a step in the right direction. Dont get me wrong, I have paid my DD way through her soccer career. It has been nice to see even a little of reduced fees at this point.

Total costs are SIGNIFICANTLY reduced?

I have spoken to a number of people who have said that their total out-of-pocket (including travel) for DA is roughly comparable to their ECNL costs from last season.  Some have said their costs will be greater.  While I could be wrong (and I'm sure BigE will let me know), I don't believe even he has said his total out-of-pocket for DA is SIGNIFICANTLY less than ECNL.

Honestly, I think removing pay-to-play would be great, but it hasn't actually happened yet.  So I guess we will have to wait and see how that pans out.

And even then - while you may remove "pay-to-play" from DA, I don't see how that impacts the years (and costs) it takes to get there.  Sure, it would save some money for those who finally make it to that level, but doesn't open the door any more for those would couldn't afford it from the start.

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by Medicine Man on 03/12/17, 08:18 am

I hear crickets chirping.

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by Zizou on 03/12/17, 08:23 am

i can tell you through experience that our cost this season has been reduced in the thousands compared to last ECNL seasons. Reduced club fees and no uniform fees to start . Players travel on trail ways buses to and from the games with no hotel cost for single ficture matches. Any reduction in price from the past three years and definitely from the past year with a particular club is wonderful.

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by Zizou on 03/12/17, 08:27 am

SickofStupidity wrote:
Zizou wrote:DA for the girls is not free yet, but has been significantly reduced for all players making the DA roster. Yeah, in the past your stud or studs would be scholarshiped but that was it. Working torwards removing the pay to play model across the entire team is a step in the right direction. Dont get me wrong, I have paid my DD way through her soccer career. It has been nice to see even a little of reduced fees at this point.

Total costs are SIGNIFICANTLY reduced?

I have spoken to a number of people who have said that their total out-of-pocket (including travel) for DA is roughly comparable to their ECNL costs from last season.  Some have said their costs will be greater.  While I could be wrong (and I'm sure BigE will let me know), I don't believe even he has said his total out-of-pocket for DA is SIGNIFICANTLY less than ECNL.

Honestly, I think removing pay-to-play would be great, but it hasn't actually happened yet.  So I guess we will have to wait and see how that pans out.

And even then - while you may remove "pay-to-play" from DA, I don't see how that impacts the years (and costs) it takes to get there.  Sure, it would save some money for those who finally make it to that level, but doesn't open the door any more for those would couldn't afford it from the start.

Any movement torwards removing the pay to play model is movement in the right direction whether you choose to see it or not. Hell, even reducing the pay to play model that tends to grow year after year will work for us.


Last edited by Zizou on 03/12/17, 08:38 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by SickofStupidity on 03/12/17, 08:37 am

Zizou wrote:i can tell you through experience that our cost this season has been reduced in the thousands compared to last ECNL seasons. Reduced club fees and no uniform fees to start . Players travel on trail ways buses to and from the games with no hotel cost for single ficture matches. Any reduction in price from the past three years and definitely from the past year with a particular club is wonderful.


Those must be some long bus trips to Colorado and KC.

Fantastic you have saved thousands - sounds like your experience isn't the same for everyone.  Others have posted here that they are not experiencing those kind of savings.  Maybe the other clubs will adjust their costs to stay competitive.

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by Zizou on 03/12/17, 08:39 am

Cheaper, not everyone can afford 5-6 hundred dollar round trip flights.sharing the cost with other players and coaches cost about 50 dollars a player.

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by Zizou on 03/12/17, 08:47 am

I don’t know about others but my family has a ton of experience in this business. Reduced cost and cheaper are words I never thought I would be using when talking about soccer fees and cost.

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by SickofStupidity on 03/12/17, 09:07 am

Zizou wrote:Cheaper, not everyone can afford 5-6 hundred dollar round trip flights.sharing the cost with other players and coaches cost about 50 dollars a player.

cheers

I'm all for cheaper across all areas.

Here's to hoping that DA can continue to follow through by driving costs lower. Maybe that will help clubs reassess costs associated with ECNL and select soccer as a whole.

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by Zizou on 03/12/17, 10:10 am

USSF is the one feeding money back into clubs to subsidize cost. Maybe ECNL can feed money back into its clubs to lower cost across the board for players.

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by BigErn on 03/12/17, 02:48 pm

I don't think that pay to play is going anywhere in this country, including in GDA ... just isn't financially feasible for most clubs.  While the costs for GDA are reduced and are generally less on the whole than ECNL, it seems that the specifics range slightly from club to club.  The buses for Houston, Austin (day trips) and KC are a nice $ save for us for sure.

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by BigErn on 03/12/17, 03:04 pm

soccerjack wrote:
Zizou wrote:NTX has always been fascinated with new and shiny toys. I am surprised that DA has had such a impact in just one year. It took ECNL, in my opinion, three years to completely level its competition and their flag wavers. As for the three DA clubs, two of the top three clubs one has great infrastructure and coaching, the other has great coaching. I do not believe the big three are worried about pulling players. ECNL needs to be concerned that the bigs will pull their second tier teams to DA2 and another big from Houston and one from Oklahoma will pull out. USSF will stop at nothing to crush ECNL the bad blood between the two runs deep. Unfortunately ECNL can do nothing to stop it.

"USSF will stop at nothing to crush ECNL the bad blood between the two runs deep"

This has been my point about DA all along.  It has nothing to do with the league....3 Teams in Dallas are going to be a little better than 4 competitive ecnl teams, with an offer to Sting also, it wasn't exactly going to be more exclusive.  US soccer federation cares more about power, ego and money than development.  There was a special on real sports about a guy that helped turn Japan into a soccer contender and wants to come back to the states, they offered him one state to implement his program, China wants to hire him for their entire country...several people interviewed pointed out how screwed up the federation is, one of them is running for president of the federation.  Why people think DA is going to produce better results than ECNL does not make sense logically.  4 to 3 local teams is not a huge consolidation....ANNNDDD it's the same coaches and clubs involved.  It is a consolidation of power and money for 3 clubs....So Big E, now you can tell me how the name change makes it work, when it's basically the same kids and coaches....with a trainer now.  If it becomes free to the players that earn it...then I think it will be better, but I have faith in the greed of the clubs.


This ... "USSF will stop at nothing to crush ECNL the bad blood between the two runs deep" ... is inaccurate.  As is this ... "US soccer federation cares more about power, ego and money than development."

Statements like these come from folks that are easily influenced by propaganda and sensationalism.

As I've mentioned numerous times jack, All GDA did is take the place of ECNL here.  Yes -- the more talented kids are generally playing in GDA now, but saying that GDA is better than ECNL from a program standpoint is certainly arguable, especially at this point in it's infancy.  I would however say that some of the big 3 have brought in new and more experienced coaches to the GDA mix, and that the additions USSDA has made (4 training sessions per week w/half field requirement, mandated curriculum, game film study, representatives scouting matches, physical trainers, daily physical/mental health tracking) to what ECNL provides (the same as any LHGCL team), will begin to show in the coming years.

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by soccerjack on 03/12/17, 03:17 pm

BigErn wrote:
soccerjack wrote:
Zizou wrote:NTX has always been fascinated with new and shiny toys. I am surprised that DA has had such a impact in just one year. It took ECNL, in my opinion, three years to completely level its competition and their flag wavers. As for the three DA clubs, two of the top three clubs one has great infrastructure and coaching, the other has great coaching. I do not believe the big three are worried about pulling players. ECNL needs to be concerned that the bigs will pull their second tier teams to DA2 and another big from Houston and one from Oklahoma will pull out. USSF will stop at nothing to crush ECNL the bad blood between the two runs deep. Unfortunately ECNL can do nothing to stop it.

"USSF will stop at nothing to crush ECNL the bad blood between the two runs deep"

This has been my point about DA all along.  It has nothing to do with the league....3 Teams in Dallas are going to be a little better than 4 competitive ecnl teams, with an offer to Sting also, it wasn't exactly going to be more exclusive.  US soccer federation cares more about power, ego and money than development.  There was a special on real sports about a guy that helped turn Japan into a soccer contender and wants to come back to the states, they offered him one state to implement his program, China wants to hire him for their entire country...several people interviewed pointed out how screwed up the federation is, one of them is running for president of the federation.  Why people think DA is going to produce better results than ECNL does not make sense logically.  4 to 3 local teams is not a huge consolidation....ANNNDDD it's the same coaches and clubs involved.  It is a consolidation of power and money for 3 clubs....So Big E, now you can tell me how the name change makes it work, when it's basically the same kids and coaches....with a trainer now.  If it becomes free to the players that earn it...then I think it will be better, but I have faith in the greed of the clubs.


This ... "USSF will stop at nothing to crush ECNL the bad blood between the two runs deep" ... is inaccurate.  As is this ... "US soccer federation cares more about power, ego and money than development."

Statements like these come from folks that are easily influenced by propaganda and sensationalism.

As I've mentioned numerous times jack, All GDA did is take the place of ECNL here.  Yes -- the more talented kids are generally playing in GDA now, but saying that GDA is better than ECNL from a program standpoint is certainly arguable, especially at this point in it's infancy.  I would however say that some of the big 3 have brought in new and more experienced coaches to the GDA mix, and that the additions USSDA has made (4 training sessions per week w/half field requirement, mandated curriculum, game film study, representatives scouting matches, physical trainers, daily physical/mental health tracking) to what ECNL provides (the same as any LHGCL team), will begin to show in the coming years.



"This ... "USSF will stop at nothing to crush ECNL the bad blood between the two runs deep" ... is inaccurate.  As is this ... "US soccer federation cares more about power, ego and money than development."

Statements like these come from folks that are easily influenced by propaganda and sensationalism."


Said the pied piper of whatever the clubs want to push.  Now you're just gaslighting E....that's funny.

You make it sound like you are privy to the high level discussions of these entities...Is that the case? Or are you just passing on propaganda you picked up while hanging out at the pitch in your cool soccer garb?
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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by BigErn on 03/12/17, 03:55 pm

^ Weaksauce jack.

Sh#t ... Did I mistake you for an adult? Oops -

How bout rather than providing a response your daughter could've written, you actually argue against my contention - fantastic ... thanks!


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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by soccerjack on 03/12/17, 04:09 pm

BigErn wrote:^ Weaksauce jack.

Sh#t ... Did I mistake you for an adult?  Oops -

How bout rather than providing a response your daughter could've written, you actually argue against my contention - fantastic ... thanks!  


Darn...Did I mistake you for someone that actually knows something or just acts like it. OOpsie my bad....

Yes my daughter is smart enough to see thru your pompous wind bag responses that are baseless and yes pushing out crap like you are on the double secret soccer federation board. You're like the Sara Sanders of youth soccer-super duper...thanks!
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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by Zizou on 03/12/17, 06:19 pm

soccerjack wrote:
BigErn wrote:
soccerjack wrote:
Zizou wrote:NTX has always been fascinated with new and shiny toys. I am surprised that DA has had such a impact in just one year. It took ECNL, in my opinion, three years to completely level its competition and their flag wavers. As for the three DA clubs, two of the top three clubs one has great infrastructure and coaching, the other has great coaching. I do not believe the big three are worried about pulling players. ECNL needs to be concerned that the bigs will pull their second tier teams to DA2 and another big from Houston and one from Oklahoma will pull out. USSF will stop at nothing to crush ECNL the bad blood between the two runs deep. Unfortunately ECNL can do nothing to stop it.

"USSF will stop at nothing to crush ECNL the bad blood between the two runs deep"

This has been my point about DA all along.  It has nothing to do with the league....3 Teams in Dallas are going to be a little better than 4 competitive ecnl teams, with an offer to Sting also, it wasn't exactly going to be more exclusive.  US soccer federation cares more about power, ego and money than development.  There was a special on real sports about a guy that helped turn Japan into a soccer contender and wants to come back to the states, they offered him one state to implement his program, China wants to hire him for their entire country...several people interviewed pointed out how screwed up the federation is, one of them is running for president of the federation.  Why people think DA is going to produce better results than ECNL does not make sense logically.  4 to 3 local teams is not a huge consolidation....ANNNDDD it's the same coaches and clubs involved.  It is a consolidation of power and money for 3 clubs....So Big E, now you can tell me how the name change makes it work, when it's basically the same kids and coaches....with a trainer now.  If it becomes free to the players that earn it...then I think it will be better, but I have faith in the greed of the clubs.


This ... "USSF will stop at nothing to crush ECNL the bad blood between the two runs deep" ... is inaccurate.  As is this ... "US soccer federation cares more about power, ego and money than development."

Statements like these come from folks that are easily influenced by propaganda and sensationalism.

As I've mentioned numerous times jack, All GDA did is take the place of ECNL here.  Yes -- the more talented kids are generally playing in GDA now, but saying that GDA is better than ECNL from a program standpoint is certainly arguable, especially at this point in it's infancy.  I would however say that some of the big 3 have brought in new and more experienced coaches to the GDA mix, and that the additions USSDA has made (4 training sessions per week w/half field requirement, mandated curriculum, game film study, representatives scouting matches, physical trainers, daily physical/mental health tracking) to what ECNL provides (the same as any LHGCL team), will begin to show in the coming years.



"This ... "USSF will stop at nothing to crush ECNL the bad blood between the two runs deep" ... is inaccurate.  As is this ... "US soccer federation cares more about power, ego and money than development."

Statements like these come from folks that are easily influenced by propaganda and sensationalism."


Said the pied piper of whatever the clubs want to push.  Now you're just gaslighting E....that's funny.

You make it sound like you are privy to the high level discussions of these entities...Is that the case?  Or are you just passing on propaganda you picked up while hanging out at the pitch in your cool soccer garb?



I definitely feel the competition between the two is fueled by ego and control. If it was not then,why not allow ECNL to control the women’s game where the clearly had created a successful product? Clearly no need to just replace as it has been stated.

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by Zizou on 03/12/17, 06:29 pm

Oh come on! Even the reduction in price is a step in the right direction.

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by Medicine Man on 03/12/17, 08:10 pm

It's so quiet I hear a pin drop.

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by TatonkaBurger on 04/12/17, 09:02 am

If any of you wonder why a DA parent could possibly be skeptical, please go find the Real Sports w/ Bryant Gumbel from HBO this weekend.  I found a short clip but watching the entire segment is a must.  This guy has made Japan a technical world soccer power in 20+ years but USSF wants to ease him into OUR system because they want to build this thing with soccer non-experts.

Soccer Sensei Preview | Real Sports w/ Bryant Gumbel | HBO https://youtu.be/37tszeV6OVg

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by soccerjack on 04/12/17, 12:45 pm

This is just more propaganda against DA and Bige.
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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by Zizou on 04/12/17, 12:55 pm

Nope, but every expecting mother is prepared to throw a soccer ball in the crib. We will have infants juggling before walking.

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by soccerjack on 04/12/17, 01:02 pm

Better than paying some knucklehead for overpriced skills lessons.
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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by BigErn on 04/12/17, 01:49 pm

soccerjack wrote:
BigErn wrote:^ Weaksauce jack.

Sh#t ... Did I mistake you for an adult?  Oops -

How bout rather than providing a response your daughter could've written, you actually argue against my contention - fantastic ... thanks!  


Darn...Did I mistake you for someone that actually knows something or just acts like it.  OOpsie my bad....

Yes my daughter is smart enough to see thru your pompous wind bag responses that are baseless and yes pushing out crap like you are on the double secret soccer federation board.  You're like the Sara Sanders of youth soccer-super duper...thanks!

Maybe I should restate jack -- Rather than mindlessly disregard whatever I have to say just because you don't like me, can tell us why you believe that, "US soccer federation cares more about power, ego and money than development", and that, 'USSF will stop at nothing to crush ECNL the bad blood between the two runs deep'?  

You asked me directly, "So Big E, now you can tell me how the name change makes it work, when it's basically the same kids and coaches"

So I responded with, "As I've mentioned numerous times jack, All GDA did is take the place of ECNL here.  Yes -- the more talented kids are generally playing in GDA now, but saying that GDA is better than ECNL from a program standpoint is certainly arguable, especially at this point in it's infancy.  I would however say that some of the big 3 have brought in new and more experienced coaches to the GDA mix, and that the additions USSDA has made (4 training sessions per week w/half field requirement, mandated curriculum, game film study, representatives scouting matches, physical trainers, daily physical/mental health tracking) to what ECNL provides (the same as any LHGCL team), will begin to show in the coming years."

Please tell me what in here ^ isn't true.  Where is the "wind" in anything I've written in this thread?

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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by soccerjack on 04/12/17, 03:08 pm

BigErn wrote:
soccerjack wrote:
BigErn wrote:^ Weaksauce jack.

Sh#t ... Did I mistake you for an adult?  Oops -

How bout rather than providing a response your daughter could've written, you actually argue against my contention - fantastic ... thanks!  


Darn...Did I mistake you for someone that actually knows something or just acts like it.  OOpsie my bad....

Yes my daughter is smart enough to see thru your pompous wind bag responses that are baseless and yes pushing out crap like you are on the double secret soccer federation board.  You're like the Sara Sanders of youth soccer-super duper...thanks!

Maybe I should restate jack -- Rather than mindlessly disregard whatever I have to say just because you don't like me, can tell us why you believe that, "US soccer federation cares more about power, ego and money than development", and that, 'USSF will stop at nothing to crush ECNL the bad blood between the two runs deep'?  

You asked me directly, "So Big E, now you can tell me how the name change makes it work, when it's basically the same kids and coaches"

So I responded with, "As I've mentioned numerous times jack, All GDA did is take the place of ECNL here.  Yes -- the more talented kids are generally playing in GDA now, but saying that GDA is better than ECNL from a program standpoint is certainly arguable, especially at this point in it's infancy.  I would however say that some of the big 3 have brought in new and more experienced coaches to the GDA mix, and that the additions USSDA has made (4 training sessions per week w/half field requirement, mandated curriculum, game film study, representatives scouting matches, physical trainers, daily physical/mental health tracking) to what ECNL provides (the same as any LHGCL team), will begin to show in the coming years."

Please tell me what in here ^ isn't true.  Where is the "wind" in anything I've written in this thread?

Goodness Ern....

Yes it is arguable that there is any real difference at this point.

-New and more experienced coaches-Who? Looks like all the coaches have been floating around Dallas for years. Could've received the same coaching before without all the drama.

-4 sessions per week....HA Ha...might actually injure and burn out quite a few with this schedule....was probably done before anyway.

-mandated curriculum....would guess most of the good coaches had a curriculum already....film study? ok...been done before.

-Physical and mental health tracking....This is the best, yes it's proven that overplaying and overuse of a young athletes body in one sport is actually unproductive and unhealthy....this must be why they need to check their mental health to make sure they don't go postal.....lol

This is a bunch of hooey ern....I believe DA will become the top league with the same results that ECNL used to get. Same coaches, same talent pool, new group in power, new wind bags blowing smoke.

I really don't understand your "DA is better argument" based on the above. It's better monetarily for some.

BTW.....What happened to it becoming free next year? I personally think the "pay to play" US model is the reason for mediocrity. There is a structural problem of self interest over a larger goal.

What say you ern?



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Re: Quiet Forum

Post by BigErn on 04/12/17, 07:13 pm

Ahhh yes ... While we didn't hear about why you think the USSF only cares about money and disregard 'development' (always fun to hear soccer dad use this word), this is much mo betta jack.  Although I'm a lil' fuzzy on the term "hooey" ... ?

To start I'll say again what I've said a buncha times over the past year already ... All GDA did is take the place of ECNL here.  

That being said, there have definitely been coaching additions ... FCD for example added many quality A and B licensed coaches to staff for DA (and ECNL soon to be DA) this year -- AG, AG, BT, MO, FB, and DM to name a few.  

Regarding 4 sessions per week ... There absolutely will be some that it isn't for and those 1-2 kids per roster won't be there next year, but for the 90% that did make those rosters this year, they understand the level of commitment, are passionate about their craft and are typically very driven kids ... it's simply prep for college level athletics.  That being said, it probably isn't for your average LH kid.  And while it probably won't mean anything to you, coming from someone that has made a living coaching soccer, training 4x a week isn't normally "done".

Regarding curriculum (and this one made me giggle since it came from someone like yourself) ... of course good coaches have a curriculum.  Each DA coach (boys + girls) are given material from USSDA to use to run training sessions.

Sure -- film study has been done, but here every parent is given full match video with software to analyze play and edit.  Purty cool stuff.

You forgot to mention (or deliberately didn't include) the USSDA representation at most matches I spoke about ... also purty cool stuff.

And now for your fave ... physical and mental health tracking -- loving the "lol" - this is where it's tough to decipher whether it's coming from you or your kid ... Those of you outside of GDA seem to have a tough time wrapping your head around this one, but for those of us that get to see our kids utilize it ... it's purty cool stuff.

In summary ... As I've mentioned, the only way DA is better right now is that the talent that was ECNL last year is now DA so is superior to ECNL.  And of course it's the same talent pool, but a few new coaches, and a new culture of coaching instilled = DA is a better program over time.  All of the posters in the know on this forum (the smart ones Smile) agree.

Ya see, some of us that comment on this forum have experienced the PPL, LHGCL, ECNL, and DA levels and so have a legitimate leg to stand on when it comes to opinions on the gamut, but it is however always entertaining to hear from those that haven't shout from the other side of the fence about how their viewpoint is the right one ... lotsa fun --

So that's what I say ... but what do I know Wink

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