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Signing Day!

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Re: Signing Day!

Post by OkieEnergyDad on 11/02/18, 03:08 pm

HomeStretch wrote:
Gunners wrote:

b) There are commits on that list who are not committed to play soccer where listed, but rather just attending college at the listed university. My guess is clubs are purposely overstating commits, but who knows.

I did some analysis on this where I cross checked fall rosters with supposed "commits" listed publicly on Google doc sheet and other public sources. The delta was substantial for the class I checked. Either a ton of girls change their minds before freshman year or this overstating of athletic commits has been going on for quite a while.


So the data you analyzed was girls ECNL since this was the first season of girls DA correct?

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Re: Signing Day!

Post by HomeStretch on 11/02/18, 03:29 pm

OkieEnergyDad wrote:
HomeStretch wrote:
Gunners wrote:

b) There are commits on that list who are not committed to play soccer where listed, but rather just attending college at the listed university. My guess is clubs are purposely overstating commits, but who knows.

I did some analysis on this where I cross checked fall rosters with supposed "commits" listed publicly on Google doc sheet and other public sources. The delta was substantial for the class I checked. Either a ton of girls change their minds before freshman year or this overstating of athletic commits has been going on for quite a while.


So the data you analyzed was girls ECNL since this was the first season of girls DA correct?

Correct - long before DA. I did this in 2013/2014...originally comparing ECNL commits to USYS commits...looking at total # of commits per region crossed with RPI of their respective schools. I was trying to understand total # of commits coming from ECNL and what impact ECNL had on total # (and quality) of commits compared to the pre-ECNL era. Back then the google doc was maintained more thoroughly and was the best source of commit data, and was typically more accurate than that published by other sources. Some of the published #s looked wonky so I decided to validate against scraped rosters from collegiate websites. I got about 40% into it and saw enough of a discrepancy that I concluded the whole business of publishing commits is just that - a business.

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Re: Signing Day!

Post by OkieEnergyDad on 11/02/18, 03:41 pm

HomeStretch wrote:
OkieEnergyDad wrote:
HomeStretch wrote:
Gunners wrote:

b) There are commits on that list who are not committed to play soccer where listed, but rather just attending college at the listed university. My guess is clubs are purposely overstating commits, but who knows.

I did some analysis on this where I cross checked fall rosters with supposed "commits" listed publicly on Google doc sheet and other public sources. The delta was substantial for the class I checked. Either a ton of girls change their minds before freshman year or this overstating of athletic commits has been going on for quite a while.


So the data you analyzed was girls ECNL since this was the first season of girls DA correct?

Correct - long before DA. I did this in 2013/2014...originally comparing ECNL commits to USYS commits...looking at total # of commits per region crossed with RPI of their respective schools. I was trying to understand total # of commits coming from ECNL and what impact ECNL had on total # (and quality) of commits compared to the pre-ECNL era. Back then the google doc was maintained more thoroughly and was the best source of commit data, and was typically more accurate than that published by other sources.  Some of the published #s looked wonky so I decided to validate against scraped rosters from collegiate websites. I got about 40% into it and saw enough of a discrepancy that I concluded the whole business of publishing commits is just that - a business.  

That seems to be ECNL's marketing cry. Their website is littered with college impact painting a picture that if your child wants a shot to play college, they better play ECNL or else! Interesting they use false data to back it up. Maybe, just maybe, it's about money and not about developing soccer players? Just a hunch...
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Re: Signing Day!

Post by TulsaFootballDad on 11/02/18, 03:56 pm

There are also a large amount of girls from the ECNL that do play college soccer. The numbers may be skewed, everyone hypes their own product with padding. But it still doesn’t take away the number of players who have played and are playing college soccer through ECNL. No one ever said it was the only way Okie. Just that it offered a better path to be seen by a large portion of college scouts. There is no promise of scholarships even if you play ECNL, the kid has to prove themselves. I would hope players do it for the competition it brings and the character building through positive team reinforcement.
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Re: Signing Day!

Post by HomeStretch on 11/02/18, 04:19 pm

OkieEnergyDad wrote:
That seems to be ECNL's marketing cry.  Their website is littered with college impact painting a picture that if your child wants a shot to play college, they better play ECNL or else!  Interesting they use false data to back it up.  Maybe, just maybe, it's about money and not about developing soccer players?  Just a hunch...

Admittedly I went into the exercise with an anti-ECNL bias. My kid wasn't in ECNL (at that time), but I thought her team was as good as all but a select few ECNL teams. I speculated there was more than a little fluff in ECNL marketing, and I wanted to understand if it was true that she needed to be in ECNL to get recruited. After looking into the #s - I concluded she didn't need ECNL. At that time, ~40% of D1 commits were still coming from non-ECNL backgrounds (ECNL hadn't snatched up tophat and a couple others at that time). Kid ended up in ECNL anyway because that turned out to be the best coaching fit for her game. I'm reasonably confident she got more looks in ECNL than she would have otherwise, but the best offers were from schools already tracking her before she ever set foot in ECNL.

DA has its own issues which I hope are addressed promptly, but I can't imagine USSF will ever beat ECNL at PR and marketing. The college commits marketing is the fuel sparking the entire pay to play engine, and ECNL teamed up with topdrawer to take it to another level.

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Re: Signing Day!

Post by DeltaTauChi on 11/02/18, 04:19 pm

There's a couple of other big pieces to the puzzle that aren't being discussed and can't be culled from the lists.  

The first is that nowhere in these lists can you determine how much scholarship money (athletic and academic) any of these kids is receiving.  

The second is that there is a big difference between signing an NLI, and then actually seeing the playing field.

Case in point, 5 2017 grad girls from my DD's HS went on to play in college this past year.  3 to D1 schools, 1 to D2, and 1 to D3.

The 3 D1 players logged 0 min, 6 min, and 18 minutes of game time last fall.  The D2 player logged 38 min.
The D3 player logged >1000 min.

One of the D1's has already transferred to a D2 program.

Signing an NLI is a great accomplishment and should be celebrated, but it's only the first chapter of the book.

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Re: Signing Day!

Post by Lefty on 12/02/18, 10:20 am

DeltaTauChi wrote:There's a couple of other big pieces to the puzzle that aren't being discussed and can't be culled from the lists.  

The first is that nowhere in these lists can you determine how much scholarship money (athletic and academic) any of these kids is receiving.  

The second is that there is a big difference between signing an NLI, and then actually seeing the playing field.

Case in point, 5 2017 grad girls from my DD's HS went on to play in college this past year.  3 to D1 schools, 1 to D2, and 1 to D3.

The 3 D1 players logged 0 min, 6 min, and 18 minutes of game time last fall.  The D2 player logged 38 min.
The D3 player logged >1000 min.

One of the D1's has already transferred to a D2 program.

Signing an NLI is a great accomplishment and should be celebrated, but it's only the first chapter of the book.

Data is a few years old, but remember hearing the #'s that:
. only 1/3 of DD's that sign and receive soccer $ of any amount are still receiving soccer $ at the same school by the start of their junior year
. can't verify but seemed to be fairly accurate for all the players that my DD's played with and knew of directly

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Re: Signing Day!

Post by Gunners on 12/02/18, 10:28 am

The attrition in womens college soccer is shocking.

When talking to parents going through the recruiting process, the one point I emphasize the most is try to find a place your kid wants to go to school if soccer doesn't work out because the odds are not in their favor.

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Re: Signing Day!

Post by Son_ofa_Pitch on 12/02/18, 11:04 am

I figure I'll add my .02 cents

What You Need To Know About Soccer in College?
Playing soccer during your years in college is a dream for many players in U.S. However, in order to get there you will need to focus on some fundamental things.
In this guide you will learn what you need to do in order to increase your chances for making it! Now, let's start with the first one...

Education is Your #1 Choice
No matter how good you are at playing soccer, you should always have education as your #1 choice. You need to consider that you could actually get seriously injured and be forced to quit playing soccer. Of course, chances for that are small but you still need to consider the possibility.
My advice is to never put your eggs in one basket. There are many professional soccer players that have managed to graduate as doctors, economist, engineers, and so on. Keep in mind that your studies are the best investment for your future.

Improve Your Grades and Then Test Your Scores
You may think that college coaches will first come to see you play and then look at your grades. However, most coaches will first take a look at your GPA, the rank of your class and SAT/ACT scores before they decide whether they should see you on the field or not.
The better grades and test score the bigger chances that the coaches will come and see you play. That's why education is your best choice. It will not only secure your future, you will also increase your chances of making your way to the soccer pitch in college.

Focus 100%
Don't call a coach and ask him to come and watch you play if you can't perform maximum. Remember, when a coach comes to see you he is expecting to see a good soccer player and not someone that will sit on the bench.
However, make sure to always do your best as you never know who is watching your games. One more thing; just because one coach doesn't like your way of playing doesn't mean that other coaches will agree with him.

Contact The Schools in the Early Stages
While playing as a junior, you should contact the coaches of the schools that you want to play for. This is very important if the school is located more than 100 miles from your current location. Many schools have a tight budget and they will not spend their money so easy in order to come and see you.
Many coaches like to visit specific tournaments and recruit directly. Some of these are WAGS, Dallas CUP, USA Cup, and so on. By participating in these tournaments you will increase your college chances greatly.

Consider Joining Smaller Schools
Just because you are pretty good at soccer doesn't mean that you should avoid smaller schools. The reason for why you should not do it is that smaller schools can usually offer you financial help. Who knows, if they think that you will increase the reputation of their school then they may even offer you a full college scholarship.

Don't Get Unrealistic
Staying grounded is one of the most important things that you can do. In order to get to the point where you're playing soccer in college, you need to be good - and I mean really, really, really good. You need to have a serious plan in order to reach the results you ultimately want.
Be honest about your chances and ask yourself if you really think that you can make it. I know that you may find this discouraging but you have to understand that there is a possibility that you may not get recruited. In that case you need to have a plan B and in this case the plan B is your education.

Don't Get Angry
If you don't make it to your first choice school you should not go around and be angry because of that. Be happy with what you've achieved and focus on playing well. I can ensure you that if you are playing well soon or later you will get noticed by an MLS club that will ask you to come and try out with them.
What if you don't like the coach? That's okay. In fact, you will probably not like everyone that works with you throughout your soccer journey. However, everyone deserves basic respect.

So if you don't like the coach or a particular player on the team, don't argue with them at every opportunity. It just makes you look like a poor sport, and nobody will go out of their way to help you. Keep yourself focused and try to perform maximum - that's the best way of reaching your goals.
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