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Are Team dues new?

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Post by wazup on 04/07/18, 10:44 am

My dd has played for several clubs the last few years, so we aren't new to club soccer. She changed teams and clubs this year and I'm trying to figure out their cost structure. My question is the new team charges for team dues on top of club dues. We have never come across this and I was wondering if this is a new thing or if it's specific to certain clubs. The fee's are almost as much as the club dues which seems a little excessive. I thought the club dues paid for coaching, facilities, equipment etc...We used to pay for tournaments outside of the club dues but that was about it. Am I missing something or is this the way it is going?

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Post by MurderWasTheCase on 04/07/18, 10:56 am

Wow really, never heard of such a thing. Our yearly dues are roughly 3k + uniform 400.00, + any tournaments etc.

Can you post more details?

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Post by jogobonito06 on 04/07/18, 11:22 am

Every club is a little different in what is covered in club dues.

Our club dues cover coach salaries, field maintenance and the like and are consistent throughout the club.

The team dues cover league and referee fees, tournament fees and player registration fees. Some teams travel/play more leagues than others, so this number can vary greatly.

We've found they are very close to the other big clubs when you compare the all-in number.

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Post by dadof3 on 04/07/18, 11:24 am

Agreed. Just ask what different stuff is earmarked for. Often, indoor, field rental, etc., is just on “Team” rather than club. It varies greatly, and generally all about the same in the end.
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Post by wazup on 04/07/18, 11:25 am

That's about what this club charges for dues and uniforms, which is what we are used to.  The difference is there is an additional cost for team dues which is over $2k.  This would push the cost to almost $6k which seems pretty high.  I keep reading it and wonder if it's right. This is a Lake Highlands team. As near as I can tell in the budget a large portion goes to training, coaches fees again? and equipment? It seems to be double charging.


Last edited by wazup on 04/07/18, 11:29 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Zizou on 04/07/18, 11:28 am

Club dues plus team dues are not uncommon. Team dues being the same as the club dues seems a little much. 3,000 club dues plus 3,000 team dues 6,000 total is a scam.

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Post by jogobonito06 on 04/07/18, 11:29 am

Must include your airline tickets then.... Very Happy
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Post by Zizou on 04/07/18, 11:31 am

Yes, it better

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Post by dadof3 on 04/07/18, 11:34 am

When we were NPL and LH, it was slightly more, but we reduced our tournaments and played the out of town weekends like they were those. Does sound excessive. I would be the “bad guy” and ask. If there is something like travel package for 4 out of town tourneys or something it may be fair, but it sounds high.
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Post by SoccerDad75033 on 04/07/18, 11:42 am

Training / coach's fees aren't covered by the club?  Something sounds a bit fishy.

You didn't say the age group.  An 18 player roster would be generating $40k+, a 22 player roster would be $50k+.  Is your coach possibly planning to vacation in a country without an extradition treaty with the US?

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Post by Zizou on 04/07/18, 11:43 am

Planning on filling his pocketbook.

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Post by Zizou on 04/07/18, 11:46 am

@wazup, are you willing to put out more information. You would defiantly get your question answered with more information.

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Post by SickofStupidity on 04/07/18, 11:50 am

Zizou wrote:@wazup, are you willing to put out more information. You would defiantly get your question answered with more information.

Defiantly is probably about right.

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Post by DeltaTauChi on 04/07/18, 11:51 am

If the team is planning to travel for tournaments, showcases, or regional league games, then it's possible that the Team Dues are intended to cover player/coach travel expenses, especially if the team/club policy is to have the girls room together on the road, separate from their parents (this is not uncommon).

If travel expenses are being covered in the team dues, then depending on the amount of travel, $6k total for Club + Team Dues could definitely be an accurate number.  If NO travel expenses are included in the Team Dues, then something doesn't smell right.

Also, if travel expenses ARE included in the Team Dues, make sure you get a more detailed breakdown of what travel expenses will be covered, especially if one or more of the planned tournaments/showcases requires flying.  Usually travel expenses included in team dues cover player hotel, player meals, and player share of coach travel expenses.  Transportation to/from the tournament (i.e airfare) often ISN'T included, and is another additional expense.  Transportation while at the tournament (i.e. renting team vans when you have to fly to a tournament) usually will be covered.

Bottom line, ask for details of exactly what is covered.  If everything is on the up-and-up, the manager should have no problem sharing the info with you.


Last edited by DeltaTauChi on 04/07/18, 11:53 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Zizou on 04/07/18, 11:52 am

Definitely

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Post by wazup on 04/07/18, 12:18 pm

Zizou wrote:@wazup, are you willing to put out more information. You would defiantly get your question answered with more information.

I can give you some more info. As I said, we've been around a while so my radar is definitely on but I just want to make sure I'm not missing something.

It's a LH team so there is no extraordinary travel. The coach trains two teams together, about 40 kids so you would assume his time is being very well compensated. The first I saw these costs was at signing, no discussion before. It seems like the costs were sprung out at the last possible time.

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Post by Zizou on 04/07/18, 12:24 pm

40 kids in a training session????? I can see this done in extra practices over the weekend. Couple of questions your need to ask. What type of facilities are you training at? Who is the coach? What does your DD think? It’s only money!

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Post by TxFutbal on 04/07/18, 12:27 pm

I would ask for a breakdown of the budgeted items. Does the coach also coach another team? If so what are the team fees for the other team?

Reasonable team fees include:
bye fee if you are LH - $625
Ref Fees (LH): $48 * # of games
indoor practice / team events / guest uniforms / incidentals = about $100-$200 per player
reasonable tournament fees budget per player on a 10 tournament schedule is about $500 per player
Is your team going to have extra training/skills that is contracted outside the club? If so, ask for details

Use federal per diem rates to spot check coach travel cost for meals, mileage, etc. Every team is different with regards to how they support coach travel. Some teams pay for coaches to travel 1st class/stay at premium hotels, and allow coaches to arrive early and stay late, and some only pay for coach travel based on the same itinerary as the players. Have a parent that travels a lot or ask a friend who travels a lot if you are unsure on travel cost to apply the smell test to see if the travel budget is kosher or full of ecoli

If your coach wants other items in the budget that should be covered by club dues or can be considered capitalized cost such as an assistant, training material, or equipment, I would be asking for a detail breakdown of requested equipment/training material, who the assistant is, what they will do exactly that is not covered by club dues, etc.

An ECNL team typically has these budget fillers but it's rare to see a LH only team have these unless there is something specific the coach wants/needs that (s)/he has discussed with the parents prior in a team meeting.

If your team fees are same as or higher than your club dues, you are not an ECNL/DA team, and you are not traveling to vacation style tournaments such as Hawaii then I would say the coach is burying personal expenses in the budget or creating an insurance policy in case parents don't pay their club dues.

If coach gets defiant and won't provide any detail, don't sign your contract or pay any fees until you get answers. Something is wrong. Always remember parents.. There is safety in numbers.. Coach doesn't have a team and can't get paid without you and your DD.. Be an active partner.. a Team and a Club is a partnership not a dictatorship.

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Post by dreadpirateroberts on 04/07/18, 01:01 pm

Played on a large major club last year. This team dues came up. I paid more than I could have imagined. Switched clubs this year and am paying 3/4 the cost. Buyer beware!
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Post by MurderWasTheCase on 04/07/18, 01:11 pm

Yea buyer beware, request a breakdown of exactly what the team fees are covering.


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Post by textigerfan on 04/07/18, 01:33 pm

Man I am glad I am out of this now. Great experience for all of it, but do not miss the shell out of cash.
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Post by wazup on 04/07/18, 03:40 pm

textigerfan wrote:Man I am glad I am out of this now.  Great experience for all of it, but do not miss the shell out of cash.

Ain't that the truth.  We've had a good experience up until now, it seems like it gets worse every year with constant league changes etc.  I could kick myself for not listening to my gut.


Piece of advice for other parents:  Trust your gut and call this stuff out.

If a coach wears you out to sign immediately, take a breath and step back a little.

If a coach tells you he's a Christian 20 times in a conversation...He probably isn't.



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Post by wazup on 04/07/18, 09:06 pm

Zizou wrote:40 kids in a training session????? I can see this done in extra practices over the weekend. Couple of questions your need to ask. What type of facilities are you training at? Who is the coach? What does your DD think? It’s only money!



It's an 03 team at an ECNL Club, Facilities are all right.

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Post by Zizou on 04/07/18, 09:16 pm

I know of an ECNL club that once we signed and paid club and uniform dues the team fees started pouring in. So much that many of us parents really started to ask ourselves where all the money was going. It was a very expensive year! If you want to know more pm me.

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Post by txsoccerloco on 05/07/18, 08:30 am

Sounds like you got stung...Been there, done that

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