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Are Team dues new?

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Post by txsoccerloco 05/07/18, 08:30 am

Sounds like you got stung...Been there, done that

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Post by AFC-E-Rules 05/07/18, 09:41 am

$6K is a scam, at least upfront. Most clubs I have been around asks you to pay for the travel as those tournaments come up as you never know the actual cost of plane, etc... Seems like the average (total) fees this year for the top 2-4 clubs are somewhere between $2.8K and $3.2K. My experience is that they all stay within a few hundred of each other.
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Post by RightWingDad 05/07/18, 09:51 am

Clubs we've been at charged team dues, and some nickel and dimed you for every indoor practice, tournament and what not. Our experience was team dues were well managed and reasonable. The only gripe I had was money left over at the end of the year was never returned to parents who paid. They were forwarded to the next year's budget, and those who dropped, were cut or moved clubs never received full benefit for money they paid.

That said, my experience is that this is a fairly common practice. I just think team budgets should be an annual thing, what is not used should be returned. Can I be the only one who thinks that way?


Last edited by RightWingDad on 05/07/18, 09:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Guest 05/07/18, 09:51 am

Have been at both clubs (the one Zizou and Loco refer to, and the one Wazup mentioned in his wisely deleted post Wink  ).

It's not club policy at either club, and have never had an issue with the teams my DD has played on.  All expenses above Club Dues were above board and in line with actual cost. Usually around a couple hundred $$ per year to cover "incidentals" like bad weather indoor rentals or team pennies, etc. The big expense was team travel costs, and the teams my DD played on, the expenses were legit and consistent with actual cost. (Note that I didn't say they were necessarily cheap, just that it was clear that the money we were spending was going towards actual expense, and not lining someone's pocket).

I do know of the situation Zizou speaks of, and there was something funky going on with that team, driven more by the manager, than either the coach or club.

Again, you shouldn't be afraid to ask questions of the coach, manager, and other parents.  If the answers aren't self-consistent, then Suspect


Last edited by DeltaTauChi on 05/07/18, 11:20 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by brazos 05/07/18, 09:56 am

wazup wrote:
Zizou wrote:40 kids in a training session????? I can see this done in extra practices over the weekend. Couple of questions your need to ask. What type of facilities are you training at? Who is the coach? What does your DD think? It’s only money!



It's an 03 team at an ECNL Club, Facilities are all right.  

This smells fishy as if your DD's team is covering the costs of another team for this coach or just padding his/her bank account.

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Post by DT03GWhiteNPL 05/07/18, 11:20 am

RightWingDad wrote:Clubs we've been at charged team dues, and some nickel and dimed you for every indoor practice, tournament and what not. Our experience was team dues were well managed and reasonable. The only gripe I had was money left over at the end of the year was never returned to parents who paid. They were forwarded to the next year's budget, and those who dropped, were cut or moved clubs never received full benefit for money they paid.

That said, my experience is that this is a fairly common practice. I just think team budgets should be an annual thing, what is not used should be returned. Can I be the only one who thinks that way?

Completely agree - since we joined the club scene my kiddo has been on teams that collect team fees on top of club fees for team incidentals. Anywhere from $600 for the year to $1200 for the year. Only once have I ever received money back at the end of the year when we didn't spend all the money per player. Most managers don't keep individual accounts and only keep the account generically across the team. One year, the manager was very diligent and kept individual account records and returned checks to those that had not used all their money - was like $40 but was nice to see money in the end.
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Post by soccerjack 05/07/18, 12:26 pm

Holly Hunter wrote:
RightWingDad wrote:Clubs we've been at charged team dues, and some nickel and dimed you for every indoor practice, tournament and what not. Our experience was team dues were well managed and reasonable. The only gripe I had was money left over at the end of the year was never returned to parents who paid. They were forwarded to the next year's budget, and those who dropped, were cut or moved clubs never received full benefit for money they paid.

That said, my experience is that this is a fairly common practice. I just think team budgets should be an annual thing, what is not used should be returned. Can I be the only one who thinks that way?

Completely agree - since we joined the club scene my kiddo has been on teams that collect team fees on top of club fees for team incidentals.  Anywhere from $600 for the year to $1200 for the year.  Only once have I ever received money back at the end of the year when we didn't spend all the money per player.  Most managers don't keep individual accounts and only keep the account generically across the team.  One year, the manager was very diligent and kept individual account records and returned checks to those that had not used all their money - was like $40 but was nice to see money in the end.


Make that three. I think a team fund for a LH team is really just asking for trouble unless it's completely transparent and the adults see a monthly statement....which is a pain in the a$$ for someone. Having a "slush fund" creates too many opportunities for mistakes and or fraud. I also think they should be closed out at the end of each season because as mentioned before, it's the current year players money, not the next year players. What boggles my mind though is where does the money go at $1200 let alone more? It seems to me like $24k should be more than enough to cover all league fee's and two out of town tournaments not counting airfare. Human nature says if you have it there a lot of people/coaches will spend like a drunken sailor.

Really surprised this hasn't blown up before or there aren't more issues being reported.
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Post by DT03GWhiteNPL 05/07/18, 12:46 pm

soccerjack wrote:
Holly Hunter wrote:
RightWingDad wrote:Clubs we've been at charged team dues, and some nickel and dimed you for every indoor practice, tournament and what not. Our experience was team dues were well managed and reasonable. The only gripe I had was money left over at the end of the year was never returned to parents who paid. They were forwarded to the next year's budget, and those who dropped, were cut or moved clubs never received full benefit for money they paid.

That said, my experience is that this is a fairly common practice. I just think team budgets should be an annual thing, what is not used should be returned. Can I be the only one who thinks that way?

Completely agree - since we joined the club scene my kiddo has been on teams that collect team fees on top of club fees for team incidentals.  Anywhere from $600 for the year to $1200 for the year.  Only once have I ever received money back at the end of the year when we didn't spend all the money per player.  Most managers don't keep individual accounts and only keep the account generically across the team.  One year, the manager was very diligent and kept individual account records and returned checks to those that had not used all their money - was like $40 but was nice to see money in the end.


Make that three.  I think a team fund for a LH team is really just asking for trouble unless it's completely transparent and the adults see a monthly statement....which is a pain in the a$$ for someone.  Having a "slush fund" creates too many opportunities for mistakes and or fraud.  I also think they should be closed out at the end of each season because as mentioned before, it's the current year players money, not the next year players.  What boggles my mind though is where does the money go at $1200 let alone more?  It seems to me like $24k should be more than enough to cover all league fee's and two out of town tournaments not counting airfare.  Human nature says if you have it there a lot of people/coaches will spend like a drunken sailor.

Really surprised this hasn't blown up before or there aren't more issues being reported.

Personally I don't think the funds should be left to be managed by a volunteer team manager. Taking that responsibility on is a REAL P.I.T.A. especially when you're not an accountant and then having to break it down into "buckets" for each player based on "if" they actually attended a tournament or not - parents can feel penalized for not attending a match due to a family event, etc and their money gets used for that player's replacement. It's a slippery slope and shouldn't be done for D1 / LH teams. In this case I believe this coach is trying to "treat" his D1 and ECNL teams exactly the same which is not logical nor ethical in my opinion. They are two completely different monsters and should be treated as such but seems this coach doesn't care about what's right or ethical when it comes to parents money - if you charge it, someone will pay to play right?
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Post by soccerjack 05/07/18, 03:45 pm

This sounds like the reincarnation of that old FCD coach FCDPH something, that was fielding like 5 or 6 teams. He would come on here and constantly recruit, ran a skills clinic on the side and all of his teams got progressively worse. The best part is he would come on the board and argue with people who called him out and tell them they were butt hurt because they couldn't make the LH team he inherited. Kind of sad that these kind of people can manipulate club soccer so easily.
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Post by RightWingDad 05/07/18, 07:21 pm

Too bad the clubs don't have an accountant on staff and maybe a paid volunteer that would "audit" the team books. What a novel concept, fiduciary responsibility.
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Post by Zizou 05/07/18, 08:31 pm

That’s not going to happen. The auditor would be responsible for exposing these coaches and managers with the mishandling of money. Hell, this might put some of them in serious legal problems. No club wants that to happen.

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Post by RightWingDad 05/07/18, 09:38 pm

Not saying they have to expose it to the world. If they noticed anything unusual they could deal with it internally. Return money to parents, fire/demote coaches and kick managers out of club...things like that.

One of the thing they obviously would want to avoid would be sharing who is and who is not scholarshiped. That would certainty fire up the sidelines, especially if those getting financial breaks were not solid contributors.
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Post by BENDMEOVER 05/07/18, 10:30 pm

It's called Inflation. Pay more for less.
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Post by MurderWasTheCase 05/07/18, 11:04 pm

Every year I have a hard time justifying the cost of competitive soccer yet I pay year after year.

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Post by dadof3 05/07/18, 11:16 pm

It is difficult to manage a team. If you are lucky enough to have a great manager, you need to make sure to thank him or her. Balancing coaching questions, tournaments, schedules, and money etc. is a thankless job. I am not justifying that level of expense, but suggesting again that you ask for itemized expenditures. If you are filming every game or practicing/playing indoor or multiple leagues, it adds up fast.
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Post by Zizou 06/07/18, 07:40 am

Completely agree with you Dadof3. Just what Select soccer has never had is checks and balances. A way of keeping the willing to exploit a broken system for profit honest and the honest hard working safe.

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Post by Lefty 06/07/18, 08:28 am

RightWingDad wrote:Not saying they have to expose it to the world. If they noticed anything unusual they could deal with it internally. Return money to parents, fire/demote coaches and kick managers out of club...things like that.

One of the thing they obviously would want to avoid would be sharing who is and who is not scholarshiped. That would certainty fire up the sidelines, especially if those getting financial breaks were not solid contributors.

On almost all of the teams that my DD's played on, it was generally know who the scholarship players were. Sometimes it was the best player and sometimes a bench player.

It is up to the coach to address any questions in private and keep the situation on an even keel. Some were better equipped to deal with it than others, and at times the manager needed to give an assist.

The most frequent cause of issues developing were when scholarship players did not regularly attend practice.

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Post by dadof3 06/07/18, 09:34 am

Zizou wrote:Completely agree with you Dadof3. Just what Select soccer has never had is checks and balances. A way of keeping the willing to exploit a broken system for profit honest and the honest hard working safe.

Eyes open and ask questions. Grab a beer later if you step on some toes...or come on here and blast them somewhat anonymously. LOL.
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Post by Lefty 06/07/18, 09:42 am

Zizou wrote:Completely agree with you Dadof3. Just what Select soccer has never had is checks and balances. A way of keeping the willing to exploit a broken system for profit honest and the honest hard working safe.

Agree 100%.

The only checks and balances are for players/parents to leave a coach/team and that is offset by:
. heavy restrictions on leaving and changing teams
. club/coach/team keeps the league spot (the real earning asset in pay to play soccer, which is why the clubs fight for absolute ownership)
. multiple others are always lined up to take an open spot

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Post by soccerjack 06/07/18, 09:46 am

Zizou wrote:That’s not going to happen. The auditor would be responsible for exposing these coaches and managers with the mishandling of money. Hell, this might put some of them in serious legal problems. No club wants that to happen.


I think it will happen sooner or later, because a lot of these guys have lost their mind. On a bigger scale these team funds are filled with land mines....taxes being one no one thinks about. Should some payments be considered income, in this case it sounds like yes. Then you get into the macro level, large clubs pushing money thru these accounts to pay refs, field fees in cash?!?! Skills coaches getting paid in cash??! I'd be more afraid of the IRS than upset parents. It will end up being a parent who reports it though, because a dumba$$ coach like the one mentioned on this thread is over the top greedy. It would probably be the best thing to happen though, because it would clean up all this crap and Dribble clubs and coaches to act like normal businesses instead of drug dealers. I don't think the clubs would care for the publicity....FCD being the one most hurt, if it comes out they are being run like la cosa nostra......
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Post by purplefrog 06/07/18, 09:52 am

As long as us idiot parents keep paying the price...they will never reduce it. Simple business. If people are paying, then why adjust the price?
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Post by Zizou 06/07/18, 10:08 am

Leagues, extra training facilities, referees, and tournament fees will always need to be paid. The abuse is the piece that needs to be over seen by auditors.

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Post by Guest 06/07/18, 10:23 am

dadof3 wrote:
Zizou wrote:Completely agree with you Dadof3. Just what Select soccer has never had is checks and balances. A way of keeping the willing to exploit a broken system for profit honest and the honest hard working safe.

Eyes open and ask questions. Grab a beer later if you step on some toes...or come on here and blast them somewhat anonymously. LOL.

Yes, eyes open and ask questions. For those of you that don’t know him, Dadof3 is as good as a manager gets, meaning good...............EXCEPT......Dad, you’re on vacation, put the soccer crack pipe down. ????

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Post by brazos 06/07/18, 10:33 am

The actual cost of having a team register and play in a local competitive league is small  ~$5,000 on average taking into account all league fees, referees and USYS and US Club player registration for a 20-man roster.  Each and every team has to pay those fees but after that it starts to vary by team/club -

Coach pay
Field rentals
Tournaments + Travel
Kits..ouch!

The clubs are making so much money that it encourages the behavior that we see.  I am not picking on any one club but a Solar or an FCD has ~200 teams (boys/girls) playing at U11+ so not even taking into account Academy teams and the dollars being collected for the U-Littles.   There is a lot of cash being exchanged.

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Post by wazup 06/07/18, 10:48 am

purplefrog wrote:As long as us idiot parents keep paying the price...they will never reduce it.  Simple business.  If people are paying, then why adjust the price?  

I agree that's the problem and I've been guilty myself before for just going along, this guy has just set me off because it's a whole new level of deception. Now he has lowered the dues by $500, almost like, oops you caught me. Two people have already left and a bunch have called the club to complain. Does anyone know when the contract goes into effect? It seems like you have until the end of July, even if you wrote a check to back out. The classic is I can't even get an answer as to who has my check.

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Post by brazos 06/07/18, 10:59 am

What coach/club? This should be escalated to NTSSA.

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