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Team Bye vs Club Bye

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by tikitalker on 21/07/18, 12:07 pm

DrunkBigern wrote:BlaHhhhh bLahhh
Who did this???? Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by BENDMEOVER on 21/07/18, 06:42 pm

No more Dairy Queen trips w pops anymore. Kids in the neighborhood playing pick up ball, playing at school. Those days are gone. Kids scattered all over parents at each other throats. Soccer is not what it used to be. It's only going to continue to decline.

All the avenues to grow the game and nurture the talent is slowly dying.
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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Lefty on 23/07/18, 11:55 am

thunderlipz wrote:Same ol Same ol BS, nobody gets anywhere in NTX or nationally for that matter, especially when you propose an alternative to the absolutely hideous system we employ to develop our youth athletes. All on this forum that are part of the problem will be quick to shoot holes in any idea you come up with because it doesn’t suite there elitest attitudes and egos, “system worked for my kid” because I played the games and politics and was willing to drop $10k(some pay more)a year on soccer. Funny thing is, if you saved that $$$ your kid could have a free ride on your dime, a very minuscule % of kids get full rides to college for soccer anyways, a small handful of colleges actually throw any money of significance at girls soccer. All these so called scholarships that ECNL runs around and brags about the girls getting are 1/4 and 1/2 rides, don’t even  cover room and board, parents continue to pay a fortune for college.

I have an idea, instead of shooting holes in ideas, let’s brainstorm together and figure out a system that works and helps identify talent. After all, the more talent that chooses soccer, the more exciting it becomes and the more popular it will be. As the sport grows colleges will have to throw more dollars at it. The number one focuse should be identification of talent, then developing it and projecting into the future, pay to play system drives talent away to basketball, baseball, football and volleyball(girls) etc..... AAU isn’t worried about making money off parents, they have sponsors for that. Stop hating and be apart of the solution!

Oh and by the way, youth soccer in Italy and the Netherlands isn’t on a pay to play system like we are. They take kids at a very young age and pay there way, the less fortunate in most cases always get seen and developed. They missed the World Cup because the competition in UEFA is that stout, not because they aren’t developing talent.

Agree our US system sucks, but don't think that has much to do with the US not qualifying for the World Cup.  

It has more to do with the level of male athlete that chooses to play soccer in the US.  Even with our pathetic system, if half of the kids who end up starting in the NBA as point guards or in the NFL as defensive backs had chosen soccer at age 6 we have a very different result with the US men's team.

It has worked well for the women's team to date as they tended to get a higher level of athlete choosing soccer than the men's team has been able to get.


Last edited by Lefty on 23/07/18, 12:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Lefty on 23/07/18, 12:05 pm

SoccerSuckers wrote:Put soccer back into the community and schools. Parents engaged and we will right the ship from decline. Soccer can be the sport that America can be proud. This will renergize and put the talent back into the sport.

Since the government schools do such a wonderful job in education let's let them also run soccer.Very Happy

Don't know about the rest of the world, but in the US soccer seems to be primarily a metropolitan sport played in the suburbs.

Seems as if soccer misses out on the population of exceptional athletes who may reside in the non-metropolitan parts of the country or in the city centers both of where a significant % of NFL & NBA players originate.


Last edited by Lefty on 23/07/18, 12:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by BENDMEOVER on 23/07/18, 12:09 pm

The greasy chain monkeys have done such a great job of killing the sport.
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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by thunderlipz on 23/07/18, 01:14 pm

Lefty wrote:
thunderlipz wrote:Same ol Same ol BS, nobody gets anywhere in NTX or nationally for that matter, especially when you propose an alternative to the absolutely hideous system we employ to develop our youth athletes. All on this forum that are part of the problem will be quick to shoot holes in any idea you come up with because it doesn’t suite there elitest attitudes and egos, “system worked for my kid” because I played the games and politics and was willing to drop $10k(some pay more)a year on soccer. Funny thing is, if you saved that $$$ your kid could have a free ride on your dime, a very minuscule % of kids get full rides to college for soccer anyways, a small handful of colleges actually throw any money of significance at girls soccer. All these so called scholarships that ECNL runs around and brags about the girls getting are 1/4 and 1/2 rides, don’t even  cover room and board, parents continue to pay a fortune for college.

I have an idea, instead of shooting holes in ideas, let’s brainstorm together and figure out a system that works and helps identify talent. After all, the more talent that chooses soccer, the more exciting it becomes and the more popular it will be. As the sport grows colleges will have to throw more dollars at it. The number one focuse should be identification of talent, then developing it and projecting into the future, pay to play system drives talent away to basketball, baseball, football and volleyball(girls) etc..... AAU isn’t worried about making money off parents, they have sponsors for that. Stop hating and be apart of the solution!

Oh and by the way, youth soccer in Italy and the Netherlands isn’t on a pay to play system like we are. They take kids at a very young age and pay there way, the less fortunate in most cases always get seen and developed. They missed the World Cup because the competition in UEFA is that stout, not because they aren’t developing talent.

Agree our US system sucks, but don't think that has much to do with the US not qualifying for the World Cup.  

It has more to do with the level of male athlete that chooses to play soccer in the US.  Even with our pathetic system, if half of the kids who end up starting in the NBA as point guards or in the NFL as defensive backs had chosen soccer at age 6 we have a very different result with the US men's team.

It has worked well for the women's team to date as they tended to get a higher level of athlete choosing soccer than the men's team has been able to get.
I agree, politics is why the USMNT didn’t qualify. Now at least the new regime has recognized this and is playing our younger players. The men’s pool has a wealth of young talent, I’m just saying it could be more if we wanted to be. The current system isn’t designed to appeal to our inner city youth. As for the women’s side, it is my opinion that the rest of the world is catching up very fast, USSF has to Figure it out, having 90 platforms that cost a ridiculous amount of money isn’t the way.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by BENDMEOVER on 23/07/18, 02:27 pm

Watch "chain smoker monkey" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/i4YToIdis10

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Lefty on 23/07/18, 02:40 pm

thunderlipz wrote:
Lefty wrote:
thunderlipz wrote:Same ol Same ol BS, nobody gets anywhere in NTX or nationally for that matter, especially when you propose an alternative to the absolutely hideous system we employ to develop our youth athletes. All on this forum that are part of the problem will be quick to shoot holes in any idea you come up with because it doesn’t suite there elitest attitudes and egos, “system worked for my kid” because I played the games and politics and was willing to drop $10k(some pay more)a year on soccer. Funny thing is, if you saved that $$$ your kid could have a free ride on your dime, a very minuscule % of kids get full rides to college for soccer anyways, a small handful of colleges actually throw any money of significance at girls soccer. All these so called scholarships that ECNL runs around and brags about the girls getting are 1/4 and 1/2 rides, don’t even  cover room and board, parents continue to pay a fortune for college.

I have an idea, instead of shooting holes in ideas, let’s brainstorm together and figure out a system that works and helps identify talent. After all, the more talent that chooses soccer, the more exciting it becomes and the more popular it will be. As the sport grows colleges will have to throw more dollars at it. The number one focuse should be identification of talent, then developing it and projecting into the future, pay to play system drives talent away to basketball, baseball, football and volleyball(girls) etc..... AAU isn’t worried about making money off parents, they have sponsors for that. Stop hating and be apart of the solution!

Oh and by the way, youth soccer in Italy and the Netherlands isn’t on a pay to play system like we are. They take kids at a very young age and pay there way, the less fortunate in most cases always get seen and developed. They missed the World Cup because the competition in UEFA is that stout, not because they aren’t developing talent.

Agree our US system sucks, but don't think that has much to do with the US not qualifying for the World Cup.  

It has more to do with the level of male athlete that chooses to play soccer in the US.  Even with our pathetic system, if half of the kids who end up starting in the NBA as point guards or in the NFL as defensive backs had chosen soccer at age 6 we have a very different result with the US men's team.

It has worked well for the women's team to date as they tended to get a higher level of athlete choosing soccer than the men's team has been able to get.
I agree, politics is why the USMNT didn’t qualify. Now at least the new regime has recognized this and is playing our younger players. The men’s pool has a wealth of young talent, I’m just saying it could be more if we wanted to be. The current system isn’t designed to appeal to our inner city youth. As for the women’s side, it is my opinion that the rest of the world is catching up very fast, USSF has to Figure it out, having 90 platforms that cost a ridiculous amount of money isn’t the way.

Nor is it designed to appeal to any youth outside the suburbs of the major metropolitan areas.

It is highly focused on the slice of the US population in the 25 largest metropolitan areas and their suburbs who have the ability to pay.  

But that is the only logical business decision for a pay to play system.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by earbucket on 23/07/18, 03:31 pm

thunderlipz wrote:
I agree, politics is why the USMNT didn’t qualify. Now at least the new regime has recognized this and is playing our younger players. The men’s pool has a wealth of young talent, I’m just saying it could be more if we wanted to be.

I'm confused.  Does the current wealth of the men's pool have anything to do with DA?  Or is it in spite of?  Or is it just blind luck?

I'm confused about the politics too?  Were there better players that weren't on the roster?  It seems to me it was a group effort of coaching incompetence and uninspired play.  

This link provides plenty of background on US Men's failure Own Goal


thunderlipz wrote:The current system isn’t designed to appeal to our inner city youth.

Is there a system that would appeal?  Would shoe company subsidies like in AAU basketball be a better system?  At least DISD has a futsal program for elementary schools.  That's a program that can scratch the itch.

thunderlipz wrote:As for the women’s side, it is my opinion that the rest of the world is catching up very fast, USSF has to Figure it out, having 90 platforms that cost a ridiculous amount of money isn’t the way.

Fully agree on the catch up, which is one of the reasons why USSF implemented the DA on the women's side.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by DeltaTauChi on 23/07/18, 04:03 pm

earbucket wrote:Fully agree on the catch up, which is one of the reasons why USSF implemented the DA on the women's side.

Maybe, but it was a much smaller reason than the EEOC lawsuit filed by 5 USWNT players.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by thunderlipz on 23/07/18, 04:07 pm

earbucket wrote:
thunderlipz wrote:
I agree, politics is why the USMNT didn’t qualify. Now at least the new regime has recognized this and is playing our younger players. The men’s pool has a wealth of young talent, I’m just saying it could be more if we wanted to be.

I'm confused.  Does the current wealth of the men's pool have anything to do with DA?  Or is it in spite of?  Or is it just blind luck?

I'm confused about the politics too?  Were there better players that weren't on the roster?  It seems to me it was a group effort of coaching incompetence and uninspired play.  

This link provides plenty of background on US Men's failure Own Goal


thunderlipz wrote:The current system isn’t designed to appeal to our inner city youth.

Is there a system that would appeal?  Would shoe company subsidies like in AAU basketball be a better system?  At least DISD has a futsal program for elementary schools.  That's a program that can scratch the itch.

thunderlipz wrote:As for the women’s side, it is my opinion that the rest of the world is catching up very fast, USSF has to Figure it out, having 90 platforms that cost a ridiculous amount of money isn’t the way.

Fully agree on the catch up, which is one of the reasons why USSF implemented the DA on the women's side.
Of course DA on the boys side has something to do with it, appealing to the inner city youth would drastically improve the talent pool in my opinion. As for the politics, you tell me why our young talent never got a chance to play in WCQ. I think our men’s team that traveled to France and drew the world champions just before the cup started told us all we needed to know right? Where were 95% of those players in Qualifing matches. All we hear is oh they aren’t ready, hmmmm, they looked ready when they actually got a shot. Instead we fielded an old team that your right was not inspired and didn’t believe in the system.

I don’t think DA on the girls side was a terrible idea, it ads much needed structure. What I have a problem with is these people at the top can’t work together because of politics, ego’s and money. Now we have multiple leagues that claim they are the top league, we have 20 different pay to play development leagues and no one benefits from it except the clubs and the league politicians. DA was suppose to be more affordable, but as most of the clubs always do they figure out a way to gouge the overzealous parent for it. I’m saying let’s take the power from the clubs and leagues, give it to who really matters, the talent. Would be different if the clubs were taking the millions in profit per year and investing it in say free camps for the inner city youth and seminars for parents on how to get your kids seen by the decision makers.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Lefty on 23/07/18, 04:25 pm

thunderlipz wrote:
earbucket wrote:
thunderlipz wrote:
I agree, politics is why the USMNT didn’t qualify. Now at least the new regime has recognized this and is playing our younger players. The men’s pool has a wealth of young talent, I’m just saying it could be more if we wanted to be.

I'm confused.  Does the current wealth of the men's pool have anything to do with DA?  Or is it in spite of?  Or is it just blind luck?

I'm confused about the politics too?  Were there better players that weren't on the roster?  It seems to me it was a group effort of coaching incompetence and uninspired play.  

This link provides plenty of background on US Men's failure Own Goal


thunderlipz wrote:The current system isn’t designed to appeal to our inner city youth.

Is there a system that would appeal?  Would shoe company subsidies like in AAU basketball be a better system?  At least DISD has a futsal program for elementary schools.  That's a program that can scratch the itch.

thunderlipz wrote:As for the women’s side, it is my opinion that the rest of the world is catching up very fast, USSF has to Figure it out, having 90 platforms that cost a ridiculous amount of money isn’t the way.

Fully agree on the catch up, which is one of the reasons why USSF implemented the DA on the women's side.
Of course DA on the boys side has something to do with it, appealing to the inner city youth would drastically improve the talent pool in my opinion. As for the politics, you tell me why our young talent never got a chance to play in WCQ. I think our men’s team that traveled to France and drew the world champions just before the cup started told us all we needed to know right? Where were 95% of those players in Qualifing matches. All we hear is oh they aren’t ready, hmmmm, they looked ready when they actually got a shot. Instead we fielded an old team that your right was not inspired and didn’t believe in the system.

I don’t think DA on the girls side was a terrible idea, it ads much needed structure. What I have a problem with is these people at the top can’t work together because of politics, ego’s and money. Now we have multiple leagues that claim they are the top league, we have 20 different pay to play development leagues and no one benefits from it except the clubs and the league politicians. DA was suppose to be more affordable, but as most of the clubs always do they figure out a way to gouge the overzealous parent for it. I’m saying let’s take the power from the clubs and leagues, give it to who really matters, the talent. Would be different if the clubs were taking the millions in profit per year and investing it in say free camps for the inner city youth and seminars for parents on how to get your kids seen by the decision makers.

What about all the tremendous athletes and potential talent in the smaller cities and rural areas?

Much of the talent on NFL and NBA rosters comes from those areas.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by DeltaTauChi on 23/07/18, 06:36 pm

thunderlipz wrote: I’m saying let’s take the power from the clubs and leagues, give it to who really matters, the talent.

How do you propose to make that power switch happen?

Only two ways that I'm aware to make it happen? Either mandate it, or incentivize it.

Mandate: Who mandates it? Under what authority do they mandate it? What are the consequences for those that ignore the mandate?

Incentive: Is there an incentive other than money that will work? Assuming there isn't, then where does the money come from to make it a worthwhile incentive?

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Big Ern on 23/07/18, 09:23 pm

(lipzy)

"we have 20 different pay to play development leagues and no one benefits from it except the clubs and the league politicians."

No one huh ... seems a little "narrow minded" now doesn't it?  What about all of those kids that are being offered scholarships and those that are being invited to NT camps.  Or those that are now playing on NTs?  How about those that are simply becoming better players participating in those leagues?

And who are these "league politicians" you speak of?  Never heard of or seen one of them fellas --

DA was suppose to be more affordable

Am I crazy or are every kid that is participating have dues discounted relative to those kids playing with your kid(s) (some more than half)?

I’m saying let’s take the power from the clubs and leagues, give it to who really matters, the talent.

What power?  You aren't referring to the power given to them in form of $ when you hire them to train your kid(s) are ya?  And what the hell power do you think a league has?  C'mon now Son.

if the clubs were taking the millions in profit per year

^  Laughing  ...  

investing it in say free camps for the inner city youth and seminars for parents on how to get your kids seen by the decision makers

Actually love this (I mean, who wouldn't), buuut we've already tried that. Remember, you can't disregard for the 'cultural aspect' -- The majority of those kids don't care and aren't interested ... soccer isn't on TV here, dad didn't play, and by God, it just isn't "cool/tight/rad" etc.  And as has already been established, many of those that actually are interested are indeed playing for free on the boys side, and are either discounted or scholarshipped on the girls side.

And by decision makers, do you mean college coaches and NT scouts?  If so, ECNL and GDA offer those platforms for these kids ... seen it with my own three eyes.  If she's good enough, believe you me Sir, those clubs will find a way to get her on the roster.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by thunderlipz on 24/07/18, 12:10 am

DeltaTauChi wrote:
thunderlipz wrote: I’m saying let’s take the power from the clubs and leagues, give it to who really matters, the talent.

How do you propose to make that power switch happen?

Only two ways that I'm aware to make it happen?  Either mandate it, or incentivize it.

Mandate:  Who mandates it?  Under what authority do they mandate it?  What are the consequences for those that ignore the mandate?

Incentive:  Is there an incentive other than money that will work?  Assuming there isn't, then where does the money come from to make it a worthwhile incentive?
I don’t have all the answers, that’s for sure. I do have some suggestions though.

I think USSF could do either or both and make it work. They could definitely mandate it, throw out the politics and get the two sanctioning bodies on board and penalize clubs that don’t conform by refusing to register their teams. This would drive those players to clubs that are following anything mandated by USSF, their already suppose to be doing it for DA, each club is suppose to have a certain % of dollars going to scholarships, but when they don’t enforce the rules, the clubs take full advantage. Fear of clubs bailing on DA and going back to ECNL is what causes this. Precisely why USSF/DA should have worked with ECNL when all this rolled out. Made total sense for them to combine and have one league that dominated, however ECNL was profiting way to much and somebody was getting way to rich to do that.

Incentives are also a great idea and could be handed out by big sponsors such as Nike, Adidas, and many more. The big corporations would love for soccer to be growing at a fast pace in the US, especially Adidas. They took a stab at Basketball and failed, why not soccer? Nobody can tell me that the Adidas and Nike’s of the world aren’t paying these big clubs to wear their brand, they sure don’t pass that buck do they? At some point one of these entities has to give back instead of constantly taking from the game.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by thunderlipz on 24/07/18, 01:18 am

Lefty wrote:
thunderlipz wrote:
earbucket wrote:
thunderlipz wrote:
I agree, politics is why the USMNT didn’t qualify. Now at least the new regime has recognized this and is playing our younger players. The men’s pool has a wealth of young talent, I’m just saying it could be more if we wanted to be.

I'm confused.  Does the current wealth of the men's pool have anything to do with DA?  Or is it in spite of?  Or is it just blind luck?

I'm confused about the politics too?  Were there better players that weren't on the roster?  It seems to me it was a group effort of coaching incompetence and uninspired play.  

This link provides plenty of background on US Men's failure Own Goal


thunderlipz wrote:The current system isn’t designed to appeal to our inner city youth.

Is there a system that would appeal?  Would shoe company subsidies like in AAU basketball be a better system?  At least DISD has a futsal program for elementary schools.  That's a program that can scratch the itch.

thunderlipz wrote:As for the women’s side, it is my opinion that the rest of the world is catching up very fast, USSF has to Figure it out, having 90 platforms that cost a ridiculous amount of money isn’t the way.

Fully agree on the catch up, which is one of the reasons why USSF implemented the DA on the women's side.
Of course DA on the boys side has something to do with it, appealing to the inner city youth would drastically improve the talent pool in my opinion. As for the politics, you tell me why our young talent never got a chance to play in WCQ. I think our men’s team that traveled to France and drew the world champions just before the cup started told us all we needed to know right? Where were 95% of those players in Qualifing matches. All we hear is oh they aren’t ready, hmmmm, they looked ready when they actually got a shot. Instead we fielded an old team that your right was not inspired and didn’t believe in the system.

I don’t think DA on the girls side was a terrible idea, it ads much needed structure. What I have a problem with is these people at the top can’t work together because of politics, ego’s and money. Now we have multiple leagues that claim they are the top league, we have 20 different pay to play development leagues and no one benefits from it except the clubs and the league politicians. DA was suppose to be more affordable, but as most of the clubs always do they figure out a way to gouge the overzealous parent for it. I’m saying let’s take the power from the clubs and leagues, give it to who really matters, the talent. Would be different if the clubs were taking the millions in profit per year and investing it in say free camps for the inner city youth and seminars for parents on how to get your kids seen by the decision makers.

What about all the tremendous athletes and potential talent in the smaller cities and rural areas?

Much of the talent on NFL and NBA rosters comes from those areas.
You correct, No kiddo should be left behind.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by thunderlipz on 24/07/18, 01:26 am

Big Ern wrote:(lipzy)

"we have 20 different pay to play development leagues and no one benefits from it except the clubs and the league politicians."

No one huh ... seems a little "narrow minded" now doesn't it?  What about all of those kids that are being offered scholarships and those that are being invited to NT camps.  Or those that are now playing on NTs?  How about those that are simply becoming better players participating in those leagues?

And who are these "league politicians" you speak of?  Never heard of or seen one of them fellas --

DA was suppose to be more affordable

Am I crazy or are every kid that is participating have dues discounted relative to those kids playing with your kid(s) (some more than half)?

I’m saying let’s take the power from the clubs and leagues, give it to who really matters, the talent.

What power?  You aren't referring to the power given to them in form of $ when you hire them to train your kid(s) are ya?  And what the hell power do you think a league has?  C'mon now Son.

if the clubs were taking the millions in profit per year

^  Laughing  ...  

investing it in say free camps for the inner city youth and seminars for parents on how to get your kids seen by the decision makers

Actually love this (I mean, who wouldn't), buuut we've already tried that. Remember, you can't disregard for the 'cultural aspect' -- The majority of those kids don't care and aren't interested ... soccer isn't on TV here, dad didn't play, and by God, it just isn't "cool/tight/rad" etc.  And as has already been established, many of those that actually are interested are indeed playing for free on the boys side, and are either discounted or scholarshipped on the girls side.

And by decision makers, do you mean college coaches and NT scouts?  If so, ECNL and GDA offer those platforms for these kids ... seen it with my own three eyes.  If she's good enough, believe you me Sir, those clubs will find a way to get her on the roster.
Ernie, My Man!! I can't carry a decent convo wit ya. Your blinded so badly Ernie, because your so hell bent on living through your own child that you will never see the failures of youth soccer as it stands today. Even parents that have kids like myself that are rather successful in this system can see it, we may not have all the answers but at least we acknowledge it's an issue. Your blatant Lies and clear manipulation attempts have made me realize your a lost cause. Please refrain from your hideousness, until you have something of true value to add to the discussion. Your credibility is just shot my friend!!

By the way, your last statement comes off a bit racist and or elitest, you should read what you type before you hit send. Who are you to speak for inner city youth and what they may like or not like. Soccer appeals to many different cultures and that was proven in a history making world cup just days ago. No worries though, I don't think your smart enough to realize your a Bigot.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Big Ern on 24/07/18, 09:56 am

Sheish lipzy -- Got a bit emotional late last night with this guy huh ... a touch harsh dontya think?  I'm guessing beers are now out of the question  Neutral

Look ... I can see you getting all bunged up when you're called out by a guy like me that sounds like I think I know everything, but to resort to getting this personal ... crimony Son -- Shameful, especially considering you very clearly don't know me.

And speaking of reading before sending, and losing credibility ... you're a mere word or two away here ^ from having your account deleted by Mr Admin and having to change your handle (again).  And you know what that guy can do ... Strip the paint off your house and give your entire family a permanent orange afro!

Alrighty.  With the formalities outta the way, let's get to the simple stuff (this'll be fun) ...

* Where, anywhere in this thread, have I 'blatantly' lied (or even been flat out wrong for that matter?  

* How does that ole head of yours misconstrue one simply countering some of the opinions in your rants on this particular topic as "hideousness"?

* Why is it Sir, that you when I ask you a simple question to defend your argument, you can't provide a simple legitimate answer?

* And lastly, why on Earth would ya think you know well enough to determine that I'm a "lost cause", or that I'm "hell bent" on living through one of my kids, based on 3 whole interactions on an internet forum, especially after (supposedly) reading though my initial address to you Sir?  Kinda makes ya wonder ...

BTW -- I'm sure this goes without saying for these guys, but if any of the smart people on here would like to chime in ... DTX, Futbal, Go, SOAP, Pirate, Bdub (I know you're still out there), hell, even SoSy ... That'd be fantastic!

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by 5050Ball on 24/07/18, 10:11 am

Man, 9 pages of crap morphed from a simple question about league byes.

We've got 2 NTX teams getting ready to battle for a Natty at 11 and 1.

Think I'll put down the keyboard and go watch these kids leave it all on the field.
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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by DeltaTauChi on 24/07/18, 10:48 am

thunderlipz wrote:
I don’t have all the answers, that’s for sure. I do have some suggestions though.

I think USSF could do either or both and make it work. They could definitely mandate it, throw out the politics and get the two sanctioning bodies on board and penalize clubs that don’t conform by refusing to register their teams. This would drive those players to clubs that are following anything mandated by USSF, their already suppose to be doing it for DA, each club is suppose to have a certain % of dollars going to scholarships, but when they don’t enforce the rules, the clubs take full advantage. Fear of clubs bailing on DA and going back to ECNL is what causes this. Precisely why USSF/DA should have worked with ECNL when all this rolled out. Made total sense for them to combine and have one league that dominated, however ECNL was profiting way to much and somebody was getting way to rich to do that.

Honest question here...  Outside of controlling access to the National Teams, what real power or authority does USSF have over any organization like USYSA, AYSO, or US Club?  In other words, what would hypothetically (or realistically) stop US Club from saying "screw USSF and all of their rules and mandates, we've built a pretty good business serving our 3 main customers - the clubs, the college coaches, and the players who want to play in college, which is 99% of our players."  We've already seen some significant clubs drop DA in favor of ECNL.

thunderlipz wrote:Incentives are also a great idea and could be handed out by big sponsors such as Nike, Adidas, and many more. The big corporations would love for soccer to be growing at a fast pace in the US, especially Adidas. They took a stab at Basketball and failed, why not soccer? Nobody can tell me that the Adidas and Nike’s of the world aren’t paying these big clubs to wear their brand, they sure don’t pass that buck do they? At some point one of these entities has to give back instead of constantly taking from the game.

It would be great to see one of these companies do something altruistic and sink game-changing money into growing the sport in the US, but at the end of the day, these are publicly traded companies, and altruism will ultimately be trumped by "fiduciary responsibility to our shareholders".  As you said, Adidas took a stab at b-ball and failed.  If they couldn't make it work with b-ball in the US, why in their right mind would they dump money on soccer, which already has much less mind-share in those inner-city markets?

What you honestly would need is a Phil Knight, Steve Ballmer, or Mark Cuban type to take it as their own personal mission to grow the sport, sink a couple $B of their own money into it, and lobby a bunch of their Billionaire buddies to do the same.  Unfortunately, I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Or, like the model in many other countries, MLS Clubs will need to start generating the kind of revenue the NBA, NFL, or MLB teams - or EPL, Bundesliga, La Liga, Ligue 1, Serie A, teams do, so that they can drastically expand the money they spend on scouting and developing talent.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by sonnyspurs07 on 24/07/18, 02:03 pm

Something that none of these articles blaming "pay to play" for our soccer misfortunes ever mentions is that "pay to play" is not unique to soccer in this country. And actually, it is the norm in EVERY sport save football. And the only reason that football is not is that it is so weaved into our educational system, both high school and college. Basketball is paid for by shoe companies, but the crossover between fashion and athletic wear that exists in basketball can't really be replicated in other sports (people wait in line for hours for the newest Jordans). But go down the list: baseball, softball, hockey, volleyball, tennis, golf, gymnastics...all require a significant financial commitment by parents for their kids to compete at the highest levels.

The only reason we think it should be different with soccer is because we can look over at Europe and see that they are sending their kids to these pro academies for free and they are producing world class level players. But we simply cannot compare any facet, from top to bottom, of our sports to sports in other countries. From the business models, competitive models, and amateur talent acquisition nothing is remotely comparable. I mean, how would we even make an analogy to our amateur drafts, salary caps, collectively bargained labor agreements, and trades? These things simply do not exist in other parts of the world.

The other thing we hear a lot is that if the MLS were to achieve a level of popularity similar to the NBA or the NFL, then they would be able to develop players like Europe. But does the NFL, MLB, NBA or NHL pay a single dime to develop their own players here? The only thing any of these leagues do is that the MLB has academies in the Dominican Republic and Venezuela. But of course, they have none here.

The only way MLS teams will pay to develop players is if they can make money on transfer fees. But that's a chick and egg question if I've ever seen one. Until then, pay to play is here to stay unfortunately.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by DeltaTauChi on 24/07/18, 04:45 pm

sonnyspurs07 wrote:But does the NFL, MLB, NBA or NHL pay a single dime to develop their own players here?

NFL doesn't have to because the High Schools and NCAA are doing it for them.  In the US, football is a revenue generator at both the High School and NCAA level.  There's a reason why in most Texas school systems that the Varsity Football Coach is usually the 2nd highest paid employee in the district after the Superintendent.  The amount of money in NCAA football is redonkulous and that is paying for an extensive network of assistant coaches who are all getting paid to go out to both scout and develop talent.  Basically, it's what soccer is in all those countries we aspire to be like.  Not to mention all the money Nike, UA, etc. are dumping into college programs and running elite talent ID camps.  The High Schools and NCAA are essentially your minor leagues, doing the heavy lifting on player development.

NBA is pretty much the same thing.  Again, a huge money generator at the NCAA level, paying for a network of coaches to go out and scout and develop the talent, not to mention the money the shoe and apparel companies are dumping into things like AAU.  AAU, HS, and NCAA doing the heavy lifting on player development in the US.

MLB might not spend much money on talent development, for ages under 18, but they spend HUGE money on scouting and identifying talent at the younger ages, not just in the US, but all over Central/South America and the Carribean.  MLB also spends HUGE money on talent development from ages 18+.  At least 5 levels of minor leagues in the US.  However, it should also be noted that while the US has the dominant professional league, the US as a nation no longer dominates the makeup of that league, nor do they dominate on the World Stage like the US does in football or basketball.  US Baseball doesn't lag as much as US Soccer, but we have not dominated the Olympics or WBC the way we have dominated Basketball or Football.

NHL is a complete different beast, as it's a much more regional sport, than any of the others.

The bottom line is that football, basketball, and baseball generate far more money in ticket sales, merchandise sales, broadcast revenue, advertising revenue, etc., than soccer does in the US, not just at the professional level, but at the college and HS level, and that trickles down through the system.  Even that hasn't completely eliminated pay-to-play in those other sports.  Until similar money starts flowing from those sources into soccer in the US, you won't put much of a dent into the pay-to-play model.  JMHO.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Zizou on 24/07/18, 06:23 pm

Ding, ding, ding we have a winner! Revenue

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Big Ern on 24/07/18, 07:49 pm

5050Ball wrote:Man, 9 pages of crap morphed from a simple question about league byes.

We've got 2 NTX teams getting ready to battle for a Natty at 11 and 1.  

Think I'll put down the keyboard and go watch these kids leave it all on the field.

That's how it goes around here isn't it Fitty-Fitty?

Both FCD Blue and LPE looked the better sides today, and I'd bet you'll see both advance to the weekend in their respective groups.

Good stuff --

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by BENDMEOVER on 24/07/18, 09:25 pm

Rural America has tons of Dairy Queens w that soft serve. Put soccer back into schools nationwide communities will foot the bill Pops that owns 13 Dairy Queen Franchises will fork out the soft serve ice cream for the big game.

The diary queen mascot will be passing out free soft serve cones for purchased tickets. East Texas boy Dempsey from Nac loves his Dairy Queen soft serve w pops.
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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Big Ern on 24/07/18, 10:50 pm

SoccerSuckers wrote:Rural America has tons of Dairy Queens w that soft serve. Put soccer back into schools nationwide communities will foot the bill Pops that owns 13 Dairy Queen Franchises will fork out the soft serve ice cream for the big game.

The diary queen mascot will be passing out free soft serve cones for purchased tickets. East Texas boy Dempsey from Nac loves his Dairy Queen soft serve w pops.

Bridget Jones?

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