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Team Bye vs Club Bye

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by MurderWasTheCase on 12/07/18, 09:25 am

Good news U90C has a new league this season that will hopefully change the landscape Laughing

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by AlittleBitofSanity on 12/07/18, 09:28 am

SoccerSuckers wrote:When leagues start awarding by merit and not by a paycheck then soccer might be a real sport again. Right now it's just a beauty contest.

None of that matters. American kids dont play pick up soccer or in the streets. The rest of the world does. You remember the last time you saw a bunch of kids just playing for fun in the park without their crazy helicopter parents telling them to apply more sunscreen? I see basketball being played all over the place, and the funny thing is that we are the best at it.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by centre on 12/07/18, 10:23 am

It's not all on the clubs and coaches. Parents are more than willing to shell out a few hundred extra dollars to upgrade the hashtags on their weekend Instagram posts.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Mansfieldmom on 12/07/18, 11:26 am

Wow!

As a newbie, reading through these post make me very nervous about soccer long term. LOL!

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by centre on 12/07/18, 12:27 pm

Mansfieldmom wrote:Wow!

As a newbie, reading through these post make me very nervous about soccer long term. LOL!

It's good to be aware so you can avoid the silliness. A lot of parents are in a constant state of meltdown the first couple years thinking that U11 and U12 records matter in the long run. Steer clear of them and a few crazy coaches and you can be one of the hundreds of families that has a positive experience every year.

Check out the 02 and 01 forums. It sorts itself out.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Cornydogonastick on 12/07/18, 01:25 pm

When soccer is based on Merit and not a beauty contest then I might listen to the propoganda spewed on here.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by MurderWasTheCase on 12/07/18, 01:32 pm

It will never be based on merit as long as money is involved. I overheard some coaches at FCD claiming Frisco parents come with their checkbooks ready.

How else are part time roofers going to make ends meet?

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Defendher on 12/07/18, 02:00 pm

Part time roofers... Assume that comment applies to all soccer coaches not just those of certain ethnicities...

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Pele98 on 12/07/18, 03:11 pm

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by jogobonito06 on 12/07/18, 03:24 pm


That's the list prior to rosters being submitted/reviewed. Some teams don't exist anymore, others barely resemble the team listed. It will change.
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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Lefty on 12/07/18, 04:06 pm

jogobonito06 wrote:

That's the list prior to rosters being submitted/reviewed.  Some teams don't exist anymore, others barely resemble the team listed.  It will change.

That's interesting.  

Seems that leaves the players open to signing with a team based on the team having a bye into a league at a certain level that can be changed after signing.  

Assuming that all players on a team can not get a release if the team is moved down after signing?

Almost seems like the league is facilitating bait and switch for some teams.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Big Ern on 12/07/18, 05:45 pm

Soccer_Mom_03 wrote:
Big Ern wrote:
Soccer_Mom_03 wrote:We are getting what we paid for: quality coaching without having to worry about politics and kissing ass, and playing with other girls who have parents that are more concerned with their daughter’s growth as a player and happiness than a title that is holding less and less value.


Funny isn’t it—- America is the only country that the best youth pay to play? Ronaldo nor Rooney never paid to play in their youth.

Certainly isn't funny 03 Mommy --

While it sounds like your kid is in a favorable spot, your contention about how things happen at the bigs (and how titles are viewed for that matter) is far from accurate ... Which is ok as it sounds like you're a bit of a newbie  Very Happy

And since you're so full'o questions today, I have one for ya just for grins ...

Why is it that you think that this is the case?


Honestly, I don’t know. What do you think the reason is? I do know that American soccer is far behind the rest of the world, at least on the men’s side, and the women are losing their head start. I also know that America's best are headed out of country to play in the EPL and the other foreign leagues amongst those who never paid to play.

BigErn, i’m Not saying that every coach from the big 5 is worried more about quantity than quality. I played for a big, and I had a great experience! However, (and this gives away my age) this was back before the club world was over saturated and any Joe Schmo could take a class and be considered a coach worth paying the big bucks to. I’m just saying for every great coach (and there are some fantastic coaches that deserve a lot of credit)that is with one of the big’s, there seems to be at least 4-5 that are there for a paycheck first, then the development of their players.

Herein lies the problem ... Been my contention from the beginning.  Too many kids playing club soccer, most of which are decisions made by overzealous parents.

And, in my opinion, the answer likely has much to do with the fact that the MLS is not the NFL nor the NBA.  The big YourApeeIn and South American clubs have the media $ in those parts of the world ... Because of this, there isn't need to generate income from the youth side as they can easily pay elite coaches to train those kids.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Big Ern on 12/07/18, 05:51 pm

MurderWasTheCase wrote:It will never be based on merit as long as money is involved.  I overheard some coaches at FCD claiming Frisco parents come with their checkbooks ready.  

How else are part time roofers going to make ends meet?    

High-larious Snoopy (albeit very unlikely, which would make it absurd + irresponsible) ...

How much of that $ do ya think that the lowly FCD coaches are really seeing themselves eh?

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Big Ern on 12/07/18, 06:02 pm

SoccerSuckers wrote:When soccer is based on Merit and not a beauty contest then I might listen to the propoganda spewed on here.

May wanna check out the definition of 'propaganda' there suckers, then have a look at your posts ... ironical stuff Wink

After you get that outta the way ... How 'bout you let us know why you think that soccer here is a 'beauty contest' ... How 'leagues aren't awarding by merit but by paychecks' ... Maybe provide an example from yours or your kid's experience.

Super.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Goneis23 on 12/07/18, 06:32 pm

I would be interested to know how teams given byes faired vs teams that have earned their own bye previously.




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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Soccer_Mom_03 on 12/07/18, 06:57 pm

Big Ern wrote:
Soccer_Mom_03 wrote:
Big Ern wrote:
Soccer_Mom_03 wrote:We are getting what we paid for: quality coaching without having to worry about politics and kissing ass, and playing with other girls who have parents that are more concerned with their daughter’s growth as a player and happiness than a title that is holding less and less value.


Funny isn’t it—- America is the only country that the best youth pay to play? Ronaldo nor Rooney never paid to play in their youth.

Certainly isn't funny 03 Mommy --

While it sounds like your kid is in a favorable spot, your contention about how things happen at the bigs (and how titles are viewed for that matter) is far from accurate ... Which is ok as it sounds like you're a bit of a newbie  Very Happy

And since you're so full'o questions today, I have one for ya just for grins ...

Why is it that you think that this is the case?


Honestly, I don’t know. What do you think the reason is? I do know that American soccer is far behind the rest of the world, at least on the men’s side, and the women are losing their head start. I also know that America's best are headed out of country to play in the EPL and the other foreign leagues amongst those who never paid to play.

BigErn, i’m Not saying that every coach from the big 5 is worried more about quantity than quality. I played for a big, and I had a great experience! However, (and this gives away my age) this was back before the club world was over saturated and any Joe Schmo could take a class and be considered a coach worth paying the big bucks to. I’m just saying for every great coach (and there are some fantastic coaches that deserve a lot of credit)that is with one of the big’s, there seems to be at least 4-5 that are there for a paycheck first, then the development of their players.

Herein lies the problem ... Been my contention from the beginning.  Too many kids playing club soccer, most of which are decisions made by overzealous parents.

And, in my opinion, the answer likely has much to do with the fact that the MLS is not the NFL nor the NBA.  The big YourApeeIn and South American clubs have the media $ in those parts of the world ... Because of this, there isn't need to generate income from the youth side as they can easily pay elite coaches to train those kids.

Ern, may I call you Ern? I agree with you on both points. If we had the money in MLS like the other major leagues, we could pay those big coaches.

I also would like to know what you think the answer to the “bought byes vs earned byes” question at the bottom of this page is. I personally think those earned byes would kick the crap out of those bought byes, or at least the inherited ones.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Zizou on 12/07/18, 07:05 pm

Yes these teams will have success until the bigs start dropping players down. Plus, these leagues see these large clubs as huge revenue. In business it is fairly common for a business to protect their revenue streams.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Zizou on 12/07/18, 07:10 pm

The answer to making LHGCL a more non exclusive league and allow for equality is for ECNL to not allow their registered players to participate in any other leagues. Once a DA players has played in 6 games they cannot play in any other league. This would allow for players in LHGCL the opportunity to move up but would not allow ECNL players to drop down.


Last edited by Zizou on 12/07/18, 07:13 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by TxFutbal on 12/07/18, 07:12 pm

Depends on the age group. In many age groups there is not much if any difference between a D1 team and a D2 team except CPP, luck, an injury, and maybe a last minute mistake in a game.

I would agree a D3 moving to a D1 is a leap in most circumstances unless CPP is involved.

Teams that are re-forming to take a bye.. It all depends on the players, make up, and CPP. I have seen a team come together in late July to inherit a bye and go on to become a D1 champion that same year. There are cinderella stories in every sport at every age.. The thing about kids and especially girls from age 11-18 is they are like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are gonna get on any given day.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Soccer_Mom_03 on 12/07/18, 07:16 pm

Zizou wrote:The answer to making LHGCL a more non exclusive league and allow for equality is for ECNL to not allow their registered players to participate in any other leagues. Once a DA players has played in 6 games they cannot play in any other league. This would allow for players in LHGCL the opportunity to move up but would not allow ECNL players to drop down.


That is exactly the answer!

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by jogobonito06 on 12/07/18, 07:32 pm

Ha! That’s the answer to ending 1/2 the acronym leagues for sure
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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Big Ern on 12/07/18, 10:37 pm

Zizou wrote:The answer to making LHGCL a more non exclusive league and allow for equality is for ECNL to not allow their registered players to participate in any other leagues. Once a DA players has played in 6 games they cannot play in any other league. This would allow for players in LHGCL the opportunity to move up but would not allow ECNL players to drop down.

This only applies to DP designated players Sir ... Which are typically playing on either their respective club's ECNL or now, FDL teams --

Those kids that sign the USSDA contract and are placed on the initial roster are not permitted to play soccer anywhere else unless released by their coach.  So no GDA kids guest playing in ECNL, LHGCL, State Cup, etc.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Big Ern on 12/07/18, 10:42 pm

jogobonito06 wrote:Ha!  That’s the answer to ending 1/2 the acronym leagues for sure

So your rationale here jog06 (if I'm pickin' up what you're puttin' down) is --

For sure the "acronym leagues" will end if they cease to allow those kids playing on teams in their respective leagues to participate in any other leagues --

Hmmm ... bewildering.  How is that again?

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Big Ern on 12/07/18, 10:48 pm

Soccer_Mom_03 wrote:
Big Ern wrote:
Soccer_Mom_03 wrote:
Big Ern wrote:
Soccer_Mom_03 wrote:We are getting what we paid for: quality coaching without having to worry about politics and kissing ass, and playing with other girls who have parents that are more concerned with their daughter’s growth as a player and happiness than a title that is holding less and less value.


Funny isn’t it—- America is the only country that the best youth pay to play? Ronaldo nor Rooney never paid to play in their youth.

Certainly isn't funny 03 Mommy --

While it sounds like your kid is in a favorable spot, your contention about how things happen at the bigs (and how titles are viewed for that matter) is far from accurate ... Which is ok as it sounds like you're a bit of a newbie  Very Happy

And since you're so full'o questions today, I have one for ya just for grins ...

Why is it that you think that this is the case?


Honestly, I don’t know. What do you think the reason is? I do know that American soccer is far behind the rest of the world, at least on the men’s side, and the women are losing their head start. I also know that America's best are headed out of country to play in the EPL and the other foreign leagues amongst those who never paid to play.

BigErn, i’m Not saying that every coach from the big 5 is worried more about quantity than quality. I played for a big, and I had a great experience! However, (and this gives away my age) this was back before the club world was over saturated and any Joe Schmo could take a class and be considered a coach worth paying the big bucks to. I’m just saying for every great coach (and there are some fantastic coaches that deserve a lot of credit)that is with one of the big’s, there seems to be at least 4-5 that are there for a paycheck first, then the development of their players.

Herein lies the problem ... Been my contention from the beginning.  Too many kids playing club soccer, most of which are decisions made by overzealous parents.

And, in my opinion, the answer likely has much to do with the fact that the MLS is not the NFL nor the NBA.  The big YourApeeIn and South American clubs have the media $ in those parts of the world ... Because of this, there isn't need to generate income from the youth side as they can easily pay elite coaches to train those kids.

Ern, may I call you Ern? I agree with you on both points. If we had the money in MLS like the other major leagues, we could pay those big coaches.

I also would like to know what you think the answer to the “bought byes vs earned byes” question at the bottom of this page is. I personally think those earned byes would kick the crap out of those bought byes, or at least the inherited ones.

Absolutely 03 Mom ... Been contemplating removing the 'Big' anyway -- ya know, expectations and all Wink

Regarding all the bye talk, you're much better off reading Futbal's stuff and I absolutely agree with Zou's mention on the Big's CPP usage.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Cornydogonastick on 13/07/18, 07:14 am

BIGe = Big Business

I like that alot better it's much more decisive.
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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Lefty on 13/07/18, 10:11 am

Big Ern wrote:
Soccer_Mom_03 wrote:
Big Ern wrote:
Soccer_Mom_03 wrote:We are getting what we paid for: quality coaching without having to worry about politics and kissing ass, and playing with other girls who have parents that are more concerned with their daughter’s growth as a player and happiness than a title that is holding less and less value.


Funny isn’t it—- America is the only country that the best youth pay to play? Ronaldo nor Rooney never paid to play in their youth.

Certainly isn't funny 03 Mommy --

While it sounds like your kid is in a favorable spot, your contention about how things happen at the bigs (and how titles are viewed for that matter) is far from accurate ... Which is ok as it sounds like you're a bit of a newbie  Very Happy

And since you're so full'o questions today, I have one for ya just for grins ...

Why is it that you think that this is the case?


Honestly, I don’t know. What do you think the reason is? I do know that American soccer is far behind the rest of the world, at least on the men’s side, and the women are losing their head start. I also know that America's best are headed out of country to play in the EPL and the other foreign leagues amongst those who never paid to play.

BigErn, i’m Not saying that every coach from the big 5 is worried more about quantity than quality. I played for a big, and I had a great experience! However, (and this gives away my age) this was back before the club world was over saturated and any Joe Schmo could take a class and be considered a coach worth paying the big bucks to. I’m just saying for every great coach (and there are some fantastic coaches that deserve a lot of credit)that is with one of the big’s, there seems to be at least 4-5 that are there for a paycheck first, then the development of their players.

Herein lies the problem ... Been my contention from the beginning.  Too many kids playing club soccer, most of which are decisions made by overzealous parents.

And, in my opinion, the answer likely has much to do with the fact that the MLS is not the NFL nor the NBA.  The big YourApeeIn and South American clubs have the media $ in those parts of the world ... Because of this, there isn't need to generate income from the youth side as they can easily pay elite coaches to train those kids.

As a experienced soccer parent (child playing in Europe) once told me.

Good - that the US is trying to adopt some of the rest of the world development structures and approaches.  Club player pool structures vs team structures & fluidity of player movement between teams at club discretion, more training, less games, etc.

Challenge - US trying to do it in a model where the cash flows the reverse direction relative to the rest of the world.  

Pay to Play in US vs Pay the Players in the rest of world the establishes the players and an parents as CUSTOMERS rather than as EMPLOYEES and customers generally do not take well to being treated like an employee.

On a side note, not sure how your reference to NBA or NFL applies?  

What youth (age 8-18) development in basketball or football do they fund/subsidize?


Last edited by Lefty on 13/07/18, 10:36 am; edited 2 times in total

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