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Team Bye vs Club Bye

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Lefty on Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:11 pm

Big Ern wrote:
Soccer_Mom_03 wrote:
Big Ern wrote:
Soccer_Mom_03 wrote:We are getting what we paid for: quality coaching without having to worry about politics and kissing ass, and playing with other girls who have parents that are more concerned with their daughter’s growth as a player and happiness than a title that is holding less and less value.


Funny isn’t it—- America is the only country that the best youth pay to play? Ronaldo nor Rooney never paid to play in their youth.

Certainly isn't funny 03 Mommy --

While it sounds like your kid is in a favorable spot, your contention about how things happen at the bigs (and how titles are viewed for that matter) is far from accurate ... Which is ok as it sounds like you're a bit of a newbie  Very Happy

And since you're so full'o questions today, I have one for ya just for grins ...

Why is it that you think that this is the case?


Honestly, I don’t know. What do you think the reason is? I do know that American soccer is far behind the rest of the world, at least on the men’s side, and the women are losing their head start. I also know that America's best are headed out of country to play in the EPL and the other foreign leagues amongst those who never paid to play.

BigErn, i’m Not saying that every coach from the big 5 is worried more about quantity than quality. I played for a big, and I had a great experience! However, (and this gives away my age) this was back before the club world was over saturated and any Joe Schmo could take a class and be considered a coach worth paying the big bucks to. I’m just saying for every great coach (and there are some fantastic coaches that deserve a lot of credit)that is with one of the big’s, there seems to be at least 4-5 that are there for a paycheck first, then the development of their players.

Herein lies the problem ... Been my contention from the beginning.  Too many kids playing club soccer, most of which are decisions made by overzealous parents.

And, in my opinion, the answer likely has much to do with the fact that the MLS is not the NFL nor the NBA.  The big YourApeeIn and South American clubs have the media $ in those parts of the world ... Because of this, there isn't need to generate income from the youth side as they can easily pay elite coaches to train those kids.

As a experienced soccer parent (child playing in Europe) once told me.

Good - that the US is trying to adopt some of the rest of the world development structures and approaches.  Club player pool structures vs team structures & fluidity of player movement between teams at club discretion, more training, less games, etc.

Challenge - US trying to do it in a model where the cash flows the reverse direction relative to the rest of the world.  

Pay to Play in US vs Pay the Players in the rest of world the establishes the players and an parents as CUSTOMERS rather than as EMPLOYEES and customers generally do not take well to being treated like an employee.

On a side note, not sure how your reference to NBA or NFL applies?  

What youth (age 8-18) development in basketball or football do they fund/subsidize?


Last edited by Lefty on Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:36 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by SoccerSuckers on Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:29 pm

Bobby Big Business Bouchee likes his cha ching.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by 5050Ball on Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:48 pm

Lefty wrote:
Big Ern wrote:
Soccer_Mom_03 wrote:
Big Ern wrote:
Soccer_Mom_03 wrote:We are getting what we paid for: quality coaching without having to worry about politics and kissing ass, and playing with other girls who have parents that are more concerned with their daughter’s growth as a player and happiness than a title that is holding less and less value.


Funny isn’t it—- America is the only country that the best youth pay to play? Ronaldo nor Rooney never paid to play in their youth.

Certainly isn't funny 03 Mommy --

While it sounds like your kid is in a favorable spot, your contention about how things happen at the bigs (and how titles are viewed for that matter) is far from accurate ... Which is ok as it sounds like you're a bit of a newbie  Very Happy

And since you're so full'o questions today, I have one for ya just for grins ...

Why is it that you think that this is the case?


Honestly, I don’t know. What do you think the reason is? I do know that American soccer is far behind the rest of the world, at least on the men’s side, and the women are losing their head start. I also know that America's best are headed out of country to play in the EPL and the other foreign leagues amongst those who never paid to play.

BigErn, i’m Not saying that every coach from the big 5 is worried more about quantity than quality. I played for a big, and I had a great experience! However, (and this gives away my age) this was back before the club world was over saturated and any Joe Schmo could take a class and be considered a coach worth paying the big bucks to. I’m just saying for every great coach (and there are some fantastic coaches that deserve a lot of credit)that is with one of the big’s, there seems to be at least 4-5 that are there for a paycheck first, then the development of their players.

Herein lies the problem ... Been my contention from the beginning.  Too many kids playing club soccer, most of which are decisions made by overzealous parents.

And, in my opinion, the answer likely has much to do with the fact that the MLS is not the NFL nor the NBA.  The big YourApeeIn and South American clubs have the media $ in those parts of the world ... Because of this, there isn't need to generate income from the youth side as they can easily pay elite coaches to train those kids.

As a experienced soccer parent (child playing in Europe) once told me.

Good - that the US is trying to adopt some of the rest of the world development structures and approaches.  Club player pool structures vs team structures & fluidity of player movement between teams at club discretion, more training, less games, etc.

Challenge - US trying to do it in a model where the cash flows the reverse direction relative to the rest of the world.  

Pay to Play in US vs Pay the Players in the rest of world the establishes the players and an parents as CUSTOMERS rather than as EMPLOYEES and customers generally do not take well to being treated like an employee.

On a side note, not sure how your reference to NBA or NFL applies?  

What youth (age 8-18) development in basketball or football do they fund/subsidize?

The NBA does not fund it but no top level AAU kid pays a dime. The shoe companies handle that. Not sure about football.
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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by MurderWasTheCase on Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:37 pm

The problem isn't pay to play, the problem is the piss poor level of coaches we have in this country. Not to mention the low level of understating from parents.

There I said it

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Zizou on Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:11 pm

Yes, definitely a lot of both.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Lefty on Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:20 pm

The latter allows the former to survive and thrive in a pay to play model.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by MurderWasTheCase on Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:44 pm

Lefty wrote:The latter allows the former to survive and thrive in a pay to play model.

Absolutely right, uneducated customers = fat wallets with little effort. Reminds me of a coach at FCD that just let the kids practice long ball passing to one another and then scrimmage for an hour. Literally that was the entire practice.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by SickofStupidity on Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:55 pm

MurderWasTheCase wrote:
Lefty wrote:The latter allows the former to survive and thrive in a pay to play model.

Absolutely right, uneducated customers = fat wallets with little effort.  Reminds me of a coach at FCD that just let the kids practice long ball passing to one another and then scrimmage for an hour.  Literally that was the entire practice.  


The club was making money - why would they care?

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by MurderWasTheCase on Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:29 pm

Club should care as parents get educated they will seek better service.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Lefty on Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:42 pm

MurderWasTheCase wrote:Club should care as parents get educated they will seek better service.  

Where?

Last I knew costs were generally the same everywhere (clubs & levels) unless your child is very good then it is free.

Is it any cheaper to play at the lowest division in the lowest league vs ECNL, other than travel?

Are the coaching fees charged significantly less for the lowest division in the lowest league vs ECNL either within a club or across clubs?

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by MurderWasTheCase on Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:54 pm

Where? Good point, most coaching in NTX is terrible so were stuck. At minimum we can make it somewhat tolerable.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by SoccerSuckers on Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:59 pm

Big Business runs NTX soccer real soccer is played outside these parts ask Bobby Bouchee he is the legend.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Lefty on Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:01 pm

MurderWasTheCase wrote:Where?  Good point, most coaching in NTX is terrible so were stuck.  At minimum we can make it somewhat tolerable.  

Can't disagree, but who can blame the clubs and 'coaches' for taking the easy money from the parents?


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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Soccer_Mom_03 on Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:07 pm

Lefty wrote:
MurderWasTheCase wrote:Club should care as parents get educated they will seek better service.  

Where?

Last I knew costs were generally the same everywhere (clubs & levels) unless your child is very good then it is free.

Is it any cheaper to play at the lowest division in the lowest league vs ECNL, other than travel?

Are the coaching fees charged significantly less for the lowest division in the lowest league vs ECNL either within a club or across clubs?

Have you checked any of the smaller clubs? They typically are cheaper. From what I have seen, the main reason some of these clubs don’t do as well is title/name hungry parents don’t even give non-big 5 clubs a chance. Quite a few of the smaller clubs have been started by ex-big club coaches that got to be done with the politics of the big clubs. Thus they can coach quality without having to worry about playing the political gambit.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Soccer_Mom_03 on Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:22 pm

I know it’s not as fun to post “watching Little Susie at her (insert small club name) game” as it is to post “watching Little Susie at her FCD or Solar game” on social media, but it is a lot more fun watching your dd actually get better on the field with the bonus of having little bit of extra bread in the wallet.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by MurderWasTheCase on Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:39 pm

Soccer_Mom_03 wrote:I know it’s not as fun to post “watching Little Susie at her (insert small club name) game” as it is to post “watching Little Susie at her FCD or Solar game” on social media, but it is a lot more fun watching your dd actually get better on the field with the bonus of having little bit of extra bread in the wallet.

Agreed when the coaching is actually better at some smaller clubs.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Zizou on Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:47 pm

The good coaches have the top talent standing in line to play for them. The competition to get on those teams with great coaches is very high. Your DD can play she will then be given the opportunity to work with these coaches.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Lefty on Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:57 pm

What % cheaper are these smaller clubs?
25%
50%

Do they tier the coaching cost by league division or do they just offer a relatively small discount due to lack of brand name and facilities?

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by brazos on Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:03 pm

Soccer_Mom_03 wrote:I know it’s not as fun to post “watching Little Susie at her (insert small club name) game” as it is to post “watching Little Susie at her FCD or Solar game” on social media, but it is a lot more fun watching your dd actually get better on the field with the bonus of having little bit of extra bread in the wallet.

The one consistent message you will see on this site is to find a place where your DD is happy and you see (with the right perspective) that she is being challenged and improving. It doesn't matter the name on the jersey or the league she plays in.

There is no one high level of soccer in the U.S. at this time. MLS, NWSL, College? The top kids have not all gone to DA, ECNL or any one specific place. There is no consolidation of talent. There are exceptional players at each and every level in North Texas. Imagine if you could truly pool those players into one club/team. But I don't see any reason for them to make that jump at this time. Soccer is a minor sport in this country.

The end goal for many of these kids is to continue playing past High School into college and you have another large contingent that just want to play competitive soccer and have fun. You do not have to play on a DA or ECNL team to meet those goals. It all comes back to what is and should continue to be #1 priority...academics! As the college commercial says, these kids are going professional in something other than their sport.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Zizou on Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:06 pm

I have a list of who I think has done a good job from our select experience but that would be just my opinion from who my DD has worked with. Okay her it is:

John Patterson Texans
Micheal Powers Andeomeda/Solar
Brian Flanagan Sting
Adrian Solca/Solar
Derek Missimo/Solar
Marsial/ Solar
God I hate to say it and f you can stomach his coaching style Tatu Pecarrari / Sting

My opinion:

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by 5050Ball on Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:12 pm

Big, bad meanies! This forum will always provide laughs on a slow Friday afternoon.

Have had 4 dd's play with 6 different clubs and 11 head coaches. Trained with countless others over the years.

Apparently, NTX club soccer is infested with incompetent, money-grubbing, unethical coaches at every turn.

I'm still trying to figure out how we missed playing for one of them..... scratch





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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Zizou on Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:12 pm

brazos wrote:
Soccer_Mom_03 wrote:I know it’s not as fun to post “watching Little Susie at her (insert small club name) game” as it is to post “watching Little Susie at her FCD or Solar game” on social media, but it is a lot more fun watching your dd actually get better on the field with the bonus of having little bit of extra bread in the wallet.

The one consistent message you will see on this site is to find a place where your DD is happy and you see (with the right perspective) that she is being challenged and improving. It doesn't matter the name on the jersey or the league she plays in.  

There is no one high level of soccer in the U.S. at this time. MLS, NWSL, College? The top kids have not all gone to DA, ECNL or any one specific place. There is no consolidation of talent. There are exceptional players at each and every level in North Texas. Imagine if you could truly pool those players into one club/team. But I don't see any reason for them to make that jump at this time. Soccer is a minor sport in this country.

The end goal for many of these kids is to continue playing past High School into college and you have another large contingent that just want to play competitive soccer and have fun. You do not have to play on a DA or ECNL team to meet those goals. It all comes back to what is and should continue to be #1 priority...academics! As the college commercial says, these kids are going professional in something other than their sport.

A college education for most of these players is a given. Their are some pretty smart young ladies out their playing at a very high level. I was once told by some wise old man that this would be some of the best soccer your DD will ever play. Get out their and make the most of whatever it is she can do.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Lefty on Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:34 pm

No doubt there are some sharp ones out there playing at a high level. Last team one of my DD's played on ended up with 2 doctors a vet and 2 MBA's.

Of course none of them were forwards.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by SoccerSuckers on Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:54 pm

Cha Ching!

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by Soccer_Mom_03 on Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:22 pm

Lefty wrote:What % cheaper are these smaller clubs?
25%
50%

Do they tier the coaching cost by league division or do they just offer a relatively small discount due to lack of brand name and facilities?

I know of a couple that are between 25-50% cheaper, and they practice at facilities just as nice as some of the biggers. The only difference is that they have to share with other teams. I don’t think they tier based on the level.

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Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

Post by jogobonito06 on Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:09 pm

Soccer_Mom_03 wrote:
Lefty wrote:What % cheaper are these smaller clubs?
25%
50%

Do they tier the coaching cost by league division or do they just offer a relatively small discount due to lack of brand name and facilities?

I know of a couple that are between 25-50% cheaper, and they practice at facilities just as nice as some of the biggers. The only difference is that they have to share with other teams. I don’t think they tier based on the level.

Please do the soccer world a favor and name names
Thanks
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