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Post by 02Dad on 25/11/11, 12:41 am

Happy Thanksgiving!
Updated with results from Dallas Texans Fall Festival and the Primetime tournament.

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Updated FBR - 11/25/11 Bbb12
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Post by justsayin02 on 25/11/11, 04:00 pm

Thanks 02Dad!
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Post by Guest on 25/11/11, 04:18 pm

Something fishy going on with these rankings. Evil or Very Mad

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Post by EyesWideOpen on 25/11/11, 04:43 pm

Off sides wrote:Something fishy going on with these rankings. Evil or Very Mad

Like what?
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Post by 02Dad on 25/11/11, 05:29 pm

Off sides wrote:Something fishy going on with these rankings. Evil or Very Mad

Fishy?

What are you talking about?
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Post by pro16 on 25/11/11, 05:37 pm

Sting Parker has 3 wins missing
Last update they were 12-2-2
Now 9-2-2
Not sure i get that

They also were credited for 3 labor day wins and 2 losses and then removed as well

They've also gone 12-2-2 since PLD and have dropped 10 spaces during that span while beating 4 and tying 1 ahead of them

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Post by 02Dad on 25/11/11, 05:45 pm

pro16 wrote:Sting Parker has 3 wins missing
Last update they were 12-2-2
Now 9-2-2
Not sure i get that

They also were credited for 3 labor day wins and 2 losses and then removed as well

They've also gone 12-2-2 since PLD and have dropped 10 spaces during that span while beating 4 and tying 1 ahead of them

Oh snap.

You caught me. This whole thing is sham just so I can screw with Sting Parker.

/sigh

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Post by pro16 on 25/11/11, 05:56 pm

I'm simply asking questions that's all.

Off sides is where that needs to be directed, not me.
She/He said 'fishy', im independent of that post.

Thx

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Post by bigtex75081 on 25/11/11, 06:05 pm

02Dad wrote:
Off sides wrote:Something fishy going on with these rankings. Evil or Very Mad

Fishy?

What are you talking about?
I don't have a dog in this fight but I agree something is fishy here. Just looking only at the numbers and not knowing any history or situations... How is a 2-13-1 ranked 18th or an 0-6-1 team ranked 22nd. They are both ahead of a 10-1-2 team that's listed at 26th. Also ahead of a 9-2-2 team (and I realize some wins are still due to them based on a post I just read) at 35.

If you're using a spreadsheet to calculate this stuff out for you, you may want to check the formulas.
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Post by 02Dad on 25/11/11, 06:26 pm

pro16 wrote:
Sting Parker has 3 wins missing
Last update they were 12-2-2
Now 9-2-2
Not sure i get that

They also were credited for 3 labor day wins and 2 losses and then removed as well

They've also gone 12-2-2 since PLD and have dropped 10 spaces during that span while beating 4 and tying 1 ahead of them


Let's go over this line by line...



pro16 wrote:
Last update they were 12-2-2
Now 9-2-2
Not sure i get that


Not true. Last update the were not 12-2-2. Not sure why you are saying that, the last update Sting Parker was still 9-2-2.



pro16 wrote:
They also were credited for 3 labor day wins and 2 losses and then removed as well


Almost correct. 3 wins and 1 loss were removed. Below are the Sting Parker Plano Labor Day games. The games in red were initally included and subsequently removed after I decided not to track games vs out of town teams (or vs local teams that dont post scores). If you play someone who doesn't play in a local league -- IT DOESN'T COUNT. Initially I was tracking those games but I changed my mind and decided not to do so. Feel free to post an alternate FBR that includes every game vs teams like these.

Sting Parker vs Liverpool Thompson 1-0
Sting Parker vs Crusader 1-0
Sting Parker vs FC Lubbock 1-2
Sting Parker vs FC Dallas Ciro 5-0
Sting Parker vs NEOFC 2-1




pro16 wrote:
have dropped 10 spaces during that span while beating 4 and tying 1 ahead of them


Here is the data for all 13 games I have for Sting Parker.

Tell me who exactly you want to be ranked ahead of and I will break it down for you why Sting Parker is lower than the other team.

24 FC Dallsa Palmisano 0-5
24 FC Dallas Palmisano 1-0
28 FC Dallas West Kang 2-1
31 cosmos 0-0
32 FC Premier 2-1
33 Solar Stark 2-3
33 XLR8 2-1
35 <--- Sting Parker Here -->
37 Liverpool Thompson 1-0
39 DSC Dolphins 5-0
39 DSC Dolphins 3-0
41 Texas Thunder 1-1
44 Liverpool Hansen 3-0
50 FC Dallas PTAK 7-0
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Post by 02Dad on 25/11/11, 06:35 pm

bigtex75081 wrote:
02Dad wrote:
Off sides wrote:Something fishy going on with these rankings. Evil or Very Mad

Fishy?

What are you talking about?
I don't have a dog in this fight but I agree something is fishy here. Just looking only at the numbers and not knowing any history or situations... How is a 2-13-1 ranked 18th or an 0-6-1 team ranked 22nd. They are both ahead of a 10-1-2 team that's listed at 26th. Also ahead of a 9-2-2 team (and I realize some wins are still due to them based on a post I just read) at 35.

If you're using a spreadsheet to calculate this stuff out for you, you may want to check the formulas.

It's not a spreadsheet -- and there is nothing wrong with my calcualtions.

I'll tell you how a team (Let's call them TEAM A) 2-13-1 is ranked higher than a team (lets call them TEAM B) that is 10-1-2.

TEAM A played 16 games against top 10 teams, winning 2 games, pulling a draw for one game, and losing the other 13.

TEAM B plays 13 games against teams ranked 35-50. The win 10 of them, lose 1 and pulling a draw twice.

Sure, team B has more wins but against MUCH softer competition. Or are you suggesting that Sting Parker should be ranked higher than Dallas Texans South? After all, Sting Parker has a better record seeing that DT South has lost a whoping 8 games while Sting Parker has only lost 2 games.





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Post by bigtex75081 on 25/11/11, 06:47 pm

02Dad wrote:
bigtex75081 wrote:
02Dad wrote:
Off sides wrote:Something fishy going on with these rankings. Evil or Very Mad

Fishy?

What are you talking about?
I don't have a dog in this fight but I agree something is fishy here. Just looking only at the numbers and not knowing any history or situations... How is a 2-13-1 ranked 18th or an 0-6-1 team ranked 22nd. They are both ahead of a 10-1-2 team that's listed at 26th. Also ahead of a 9-2-2 team (and I realize some wins are still due to them based on a post I just read) at 35.

If you're using a spreadsheet to calculate this stuff out for you, you may want to check the formulas.

It's not a spreadsheet -- and there is nothing wrong with my calcualtions.

I'll tell you how a team (Let's call them TEAM A) 2-13-1 is ranked higher than a team (lets call them TEAM B) that is 10-1-2.

TEAM A played 16 games against top 10 teams, winning 2 games, pulling a draw for one game, and losing the other 13.

TEAM B plays 13 games against teams ranked 35-50. The win 10 of them, lose 1 and pulling a draw twice.

Sure, team B has more wins but against MUCH softer competition. Or are you suggesting that Sting Parker should be ranked higher than Dallas Texans South? After all, Sting Parker has a better record seeing that DT South has lost a whoping 8 games while Sting Parker has only lost 2 games.

I'm not trying to suggest anything, it was only making observations about the W-L numbers. I agree that schedule strength should be a part of your calculations but my immediate reaction, and I'm not trying to be a jerk, is that maybe that factor is wieghted a little too heavily in your system.

To make a parallel in college football. Almost everyone considers the SEC to be the toughest conference in NCAAF. Ole Miss has had a very tough season against some very strong teams and are in last place with a record of 2-9-0. On the other side, Conference USA is not very highly thought of but Houston has a commanding lead with a record of 12-0-0.

In my opinion, and only on opinion of course, Houston should be regarded more highly. I know Ole Miss has some tough games but you still have to proved it on the field with results. Houston's wins can be considered ordinary but ultimately they've proven, to the best of their ability, that they're a viable opponent.

I know I'd vote for Houston to play in a championship game before Ole Miss would get my vote.

BUT WITH ALL THAT SAID... I love the debate and your post is a lot of fun. I appreciate you quite a bit.
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Post by pro16 on 25/11/11, 06:55 pm

Again just asking questions.

My mistake on the 12-2-2 as I was calculating PLD in that.
That said, Sting Parker was 24th on Sept 12 and now sits 35th with a 12-2-2 record (9-2-2 not counting PLD)....11 spots?

so where do you see the value in beating 24 and 28 yet never going up? XLR8 jumped after beating Vigil yet Sting beat Palmisano and Kang straight up in league and lost to Palmisano in Aces against stacked roster.

I guess what I'm hoping for is more clarification.
We play what we're given by league and showed well.

Then there are "top 20" teams that struggle to show positive resurs yet never drop below a very firm line. One team was 3-4-6 and sitting 14 or 15 back on sept 12. They finished 6-11-5 and sit in the same place? they went 3-7 and -1 since and hel firm. At some point there should be some evaluation ofthe system.

All that said, I do not think Sting Parker is a top 15-20 team. Maybe they'll get there idk.
However, not a chance they're 35....they've shown that.

Just looking for some sensibilities in all of this.

So I'll step back and let I all play out and not ask questions.



See you in the spring.

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Post by 02Dad on 25/11/11, 07:09 pm

pro16 wrote:Again just asking questions.

My mistake on the 12-2-2 as I was calculating PLD in that.
That said, Sting Parker was 24th on Sept 12 and now sits 35th with a 12-2-2 record (9-2-2 not counting PLD)....11 spots?

so where do you see the value in beating 24 and 28 yet never going up? XLR8 jumped after beating Vigil yet Sting beat Palmisano and Kang straight up in league and lost to Palmisano in Aces against stacked roster.

I guess what I'm hoping for is more clarification.
We play what we're given by league and showed well.

Then there are "top 20" teams that struggle to show positive resurs yet never drop below a very firm line. One team was 3-4-6 and sitting 14 or 15 back on sept 12. They finished 6-11-5 and sit in the same place? they went 3-7 and -1 since and hel firm. At some point there should be some evaluation ofthe system.

All that said, I do not think Sting Parker is a top 15-20 team. Maybe they'll get there idk.
However, not a chance they're 35....they've shown that.

Just looking for some sensibilities in all of this.

So I'll step back and let I all play out and not ask questions.



See you in the spring.

Tell me which one team you think Sting Parker should be ahead of.

I will break it down line by line, point by point and explain why FBR is ranking you where you are vs the other team.
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Post by EyesWideOpen on 25/11/11, 08:29 pm

I am enjoying rhe discussion. I haveteam i a question 02dad-I think my dd's team is ranked too high. Can you explain why?
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Post by RoidRage on 25/11/11, 10:29 pm

02Dad wrote:
pro16 wrote:Again just asking questions.

My mistake on the 12-2-2 as I was calculating PLD in that.
That said, Sting Parker was 24th on Sept 12 and now sits 35th with a 12-2-2 record (9-2-2 not counting PLD)....11 spots?

so where do you see the value in beating 24 and 28 yet never going up? XLR8 jumped after beating Vigil yet Sting beat Palmisano and Kang straight up in league and lost to Palmisano in Aces against stacked roster.

I guess what I'm hoping for is more clarification.
We play what we're given by league and showed well.

Then there are "top 20" teams that struggle to show positive resurs yet never drop below a very firm line. One team was 3-4-6 and sitting 14 or 15 back on sept 12. They finished 6-11-5 and sit in the same place? they went 3-7 and -1 since and hel firm. At some point there should be some evaluation ofthe system.

All that said, I do not think Sting Parker is a top 15-20 team. Maybe they'll get there idk.
However, not a chance they're 35....they've shown that.

Just looking for some sensibilities in all of this.

So I'll step back and let I all play out and not ask questions.



See you in the spring.

Tell me which one team you think Sting Parker should be ahead of.

I will break it down line by line, point by point and explain why FBR is ranking you where you are vs the other team.



I have a question. I think FCD Grubb should be ranked higher than DT South. They have beat South 2 out of last 3 times to play them...all in the last 2 months. They have a better overall record and have beaten and tied the #1 team Webb in last month. Only teams lost to was Higg and DT South. Can you go line for line for me cuz I'm not seeing it, even when using SOS.

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Post by RoidRage on 25/11/11, 10:49 pm

Same for DT Bennett....I realize they have lost some players but they haven't played any games since then. Is more wins more important than winning percentage....is it better to play more games and have more wins because of playing more games or is winning percentage better. Say team A has a 10-1 record vs team B has12-8 record against same tier of opponents? If I recall DT Bennett has beaten Dynamo and has also beaten South the last 2 times and had only lost to Webb(2 times), Higg and FCD since thus poll has started yet they r ranked behind teams they have beaten with South beaten 2 times....it just seems something is out if Wack. Not saying you r rigging anything, but it just seems a little off especially when you look at head to head.

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Updated FBR - 11/25/11 Empty FBR or any other "system" won't be perfect without better input than scores

Post by deepthoughts on 26/11/11, 07:34 am

I think people are really giving this FBR software-driven ranking too much credit, and are far too worried about where their team ranks.

Sure, as RoidRage points out, there are questions about the FBR system. There are lots of inconsistencies and head-to-head is actually not in the formula from my review of the description of the formula. Yet, in human terms, head-to-head matters a lot.

Then there is a more important reality of the helter skelter environment being measured and compared. This is 9 and 10 year old girls soccer under the microscope! Unless I'm the only one that has noticed, 9 and 10 year olds don't deliver consistant performances week over week. Next, more than half the teams are using inter-club "guests" to improve their results. The guest program exists for kids to try out on other teams to see if they would like to join them, but that is not what it is being used for most of the time. When a top starter kid off top ranked FCD Premier plays for FCD Palmisiano, she is not looking to join the lower team; rather, the lower team is trying to get a result. This puts the smaller clubs at a disadvantage and one-02-team-only teams like XLR8 in the world of hurt. To add to the complexity, the rosters on some teams have greater upheaval than others so a team competes very differently than it did only three or four months ago. Finally, the girls don't play that many games to really ensure that the measurement stats are consistently reproducible. When MLB plays 162 games with pros on rosters that don't change by the week, stats matter. U10 girls soccer - well, lets just say the entire ranking thing is suspect.

Better than FBR, in my opinion, would be a human market-based system not unlike the Iowa Electronic Market that has done an incredible job at predicting political races. See http://tippie.uiowa.edu/iem/index.cfm - any market where people bet money, even fake money, tends to produce better results than measurement software churning out rankings. But, to have a market based system, people would have to see many more games and have better data to make judgements. You would have to know how a team plays rather than knowing a score was 1-0.

I believe FBR is useful for figuring out what competitive "neighborhood" a given team is within. DT South is the perfect example - they competed well in the DTFFestival tournament - had a great tourney in fact. But then people started talking up "upsets" because another team was in front of DT South in the FBR. But FBR is hand grenade accurate at best, not laser beam. DT South winning means they had a good game, one ball bounced fortuitously here or there, and the result was theirs for a day, against a team that could beat them the next day. The two teams were from the same FBR neighborhood, so I don't see the shock and surprise.

Another truism in sport is that often, a lesser ranking team just matches up better against another team than it should, according the to software. FBR ignores head to head, unless someone knows different.

Now, my two cents about what's really important since I clearly believe bragging rights for parents on a inherently flawed FBR is not.

I think too many parents are trying to move their kid to a specific team because of its FBR rank, when they should be finding a team where they are impressed with the WAY the team plays, the WAY the team is coached, the quality of the friendships your DD can form on that team (soccer is not just about the soccer), and the WAY they gel with the patents (who you will see for many moons to come if you sign a select contract with that team). Putting your DD on a team where she will get plenty of play time is very important. It makes little sense to be #15 on the bench of a number one ranked FBR team, when your DD could be starting for another team in the same competitive neighborhood (assume good coaching etc etc).

If you really think about it, any league is better off if there are 10+ highly competitive teams, rather than one or two superdominant teams that then have to seek out opportunities to play up against older kids to add more competition to their mix. If everyone can beat each other on any given weekend, many more kids develop into better soccer players, and its a heck of a lot more exciting too.

Find a team in a competitive neighborhood/level where your DD can really make a valuable contribution, make a real difference. Bragging rights from a system that doesn't measure that accurately is not what this is all about.
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Post by bigtex75081 on 26/11/11, 07:57 am

deepthoughts wrote:I think people....
I enjoyed that. A good post. This string has livened up this weekend for me. Thanks y'all.
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Updated FBR - 11/25/11 Empty Improving the stats

Post by deepthoughts on 26/11/11, 08:26 am

One more thought on creating a better youth soccer measurement system:

It really is not just about the result. Result from playing good intelligent soccer matters, but result from one fast break, one bad bounce, one bad ref call freekick gift does not.

So how do you improve this in the dynamic world of youth soccer?

If we actually had shots-on-goal and number-of-saves by the keepers in games, SSGR (FBR-plus) could be born. At this age, these stats are actually more telling than the final result. If Team A has 16 SOG, 1 Save, 0 Goals, while competing against Team B that only had 2 SOG, 1 Save, 1 Goal (and therefore won the game 0-1), it would really help better understand which team was imposing its will, which team enjoyed more possession, which team got lucky on a result. Nothing can fix the guesting quagmire but this is still far superior measurement to just the score.

Anybody want to create a super-honest measurement committee, make sure that a committee member goes to each and every game, report accurate numbers, and create a new SSGR system (shots/saves/goals/results)) that puts more weight on these factors than on final results?

It would not be perfect (changing rosters / guesting) but measurement would improve a lot...
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Post by bigtex75081 on 26/11/11, 08:40 am

deepthoughts wrote:One more thought on creating a better youth soccer measurement system:

It really is not just about the result. Result from playing good intelligent soccer matters, but result from one fast break, one bad bounce, one bad ref call freekick gift does not.

So how do you improve this in the dynamic world of youth soccer?

If we actually had shots-on-goal and number-of-saves by the keepers in games, SSGR (FBR-plus) could be born. At this age, these stats are actually more telling than the final result. If Team A has 16 SOG, 1 Save, 0 Goals, while competing against Team B that only had 2 SOG, 1 Save, 1 Goal (and therefore won the game 0-1), it would really help better understand which team was imposing its will, which team enjoyed more possession, which team got lucky on a result. Nothing can fix the guesting quagmire but this is still far superior measurement to just the score.

Anybody want to create a super-honest measurement committee, make sure that a committee member goes to each and every game, report accurate numbers, and create a new SSGR system (shots/saves/goals/results)) that puts more weight on these factors than on final results?

It would not be perfect (changing rosters / guesting) but measurement would improve a lot...

An SSGR system would cost more money than I'm willing to spend at this point but I agree with everything you wrote. A Time of Possession Percentage would also be able to show you quite a bit as well.

One thing I think most parents could do pretty easily, for their child, is record a +/- for their DD.

You start the season with your DD at 0. Every time a goal is scored while she is on the field, add 1 to her total score. Every time the other team scores a goal on your squad, subtract 1 from her current total. At the end of a season, if your daughter has a 0 or a negative number, you should check to see if there's maybe a problem. Is she missing a certain skill? Is she not on the right team? Conversely, if she has a huge positive number, is she being compelled to carry a team that otherwise wouldn't be competitive?

I do love stats.
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Post by Itsme on 26/11/11, 09:39 am

bigtex75081 wrote:
deepthoughts wrote:One more thought on creating a better youth soccer measurement system:

It really is not just about the result. Result from playing good intelligent soccer matters, but result from one fast break, one bad bounce, one bad ref call freekick gift does not.

So how do you improve this in the dynamic world of youth soccer?

If we actually had shots-on-goal and number-of-saves by the keepers in games, SSGR (FBR-plus) could be born. At this age, these stats are actually more telling than the final result. If Team A has 16 SOG, 1 Save, 0 Goals, while competing against Team B that only had 2 SOG, 1 Save, 1 Goal (and therefore won the game 0-1), it would really help better understand which team was imposing its will, which team enjoyed more possession, which team got lucky on a result. Nothing can fix the guesting quagmire but this is still far superior measurement to just the score.

Anybody want to create a super-honest measurement committee, make sure that a committee member goes to each and every game, report accurate numbers, and create a new SSGR system (shots/saves/goals/results)) that puts more weight on these factors than on final results?

It would not be perfect (changing rosters / guesting) but measurement would improve a lot...

An SSGR system would cost more money than I'm willing to spend at this point but I agree with everything you wrote. A Time of Possession Percentage would also be able to show you quite a bit as well.

One thing I think most parents could do pretty easily, for their child, is record a +/- for their DD.

You start the season with your DD at 0. Every time a goal is scored while she is on the field, add 1 to her total score. Every time the other team scores a goal on your squad, subtract 1 from her current total. At the end of a season, if your daughter has a 0 or a negative number, you should check to see if there's maybe a problem. Is she missing a certain skill? Is she not on the right team? Conversely, if she has a huge positive number, is she being compelled to carry a team that otherwise wouldn't be competitive?

I do love stats.

Interesting thought about the +/- system; I'm just not sure looking at it as a standalone number provides enough context. Wouldn't comparing your dd's +/- score to the team's overall goal differential give it more of a context? Example: your dd is +8 for the season and her team has a goal differential of +30. Statistically speaking, your dd is only on the field about 25% of the time for the positive results. Conversely: your dd is +8 for the season and her team has a goal differential of -20. Clearly, your dd is a positive spark for her team.

The best part about stats is there's always another self-proclaimed "expert" jacking around with your good work!

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Updated FBR - 11/25/11 Empty Re: Updated FBR - 11/25/11

Post by bigtex75081 on 26/11/11, 10:21 am

Itsme wrote:
bigtex75081 wrote:
deepthoughts wrote:One more thought on creating a better youth soccer measurement system:

It really is not just about the result. Result from playing good intelligent soccer matters, but result from one fast break, one bad bounce, one bad ref call freekick gift does not.

So how do you improve this in the dynamic world of youth soccer?

If we actually had shots-on-goal and number-of-saves by the keepers in games, SSGR (FBR-plus) could be born. At this age, these stats are actually more telling than the final result. If Team A has 16 SOG, 1 Save, 0 Goals, while competing against Team B that only had 2 SOG, 1 Save, 1 Goal (and therefore won the game 0-1), it would really help better understand which team was imposing its will, which team enjoyed more possession, which team got lucky on a result. Nothing can fix the guesting quagmire but this is still far superior measurement to just the score.

Anybody want to create a super-honest measurement committee, make sure that a committee member goes to each and every game, report accurate numbers, and create a new SSGR system (shots/saves/goals/results)) that puts more weight on these factors than on final results?

It would not be perfect (changing rosters / guesting) but measurement would improve a lot...

An SSGR system would cost more money than I'm willing to spend at this point but I agree with everything you wrote. A Time of Possession Percentage would also be able to show you quite a bit as well.

One thing I think most parents could do pretty easily, for their child, is record a +/- for their DD.

You start the season with your DD at 0. Every time a goal is scored while she is on the field, add 1 to her total score. Every time the other team scores a goal on your squad, subtract 1 from her current total. At the end of a season, if your daughter has a 0 or a negative number, you should check to see if there's maybe a problem. Is she missing a certain skill? Is she not on the right team? Conversely, if she has a huge positive number, is she being compelled to carry a team that otherwise wouldn't be competitive?

I do love stats.

Interesting thought about the +/- system; I'm just not sure looking at it as a standalone number provides enough context. Wouldn't comparing your dd's +/- score to the team's overall goal differential give it more of a context? Example: your dd is +8 for the season and her team has a goal differential of +30. Statistically speaking, your dd is only on the field about 25% of the time for the positive results. Conversely: your dd is +8 for the season and her team has a goal differential of -20. Clearly, your dd is a positive spark for her team.

The best part about stats is there's always another self-proclaimed "expert" jacking around with your good work!

I totally agree. After the last post I realized that I'd completely skipped the Goal Differential part. The nice thing about Goal Differential for a team is that it's really easy data to capture. You see Goal Differential listed in league and tournament results everywhere.

I think using Goal Differential in conjuction with +/- would be extremely important for goalies and defenders. For them, you'd definitely need to put +/- into context.

"My daughter plays sweeper and has a -3 +/-. Her coach won't let her push up because we're told she's the team's best defender. The team has a -15 Goal Differential on the season." So in this situation, I'd say that your DD is a big asset to that team eventhough she has a negative +/-.
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Updated FBR - 11/25/11 Empty Team stats vs Individual Stats

Post by deepthoughts on 26/11/11, 03:35 pm

Well, I really was talking about what might be feasible to measure and rank teams versus each other, better than the results-is-all-that-matters FBR.

Individual stats that a parent could feasibly keep under the "what gets measured gets improved" category is another topic, probably deserving of its own topic thread. I'm not sure how + / - goals scored and goals allowed, while your kid is on field, helps your kid improve.

My first thought would be completed passes / kept possession versus unforced errors and turnovers.

I have seen wingers that gain a good reputation because they drive the ball forward 30 yards on the dribble when they touch it. But if the same kid then holds the ball too long, the end of the run becomes a consistant turnover or unforced error. These stats, when presented in a positive way to the child, would help them concentrate on improving their individual play. In this example, drive the ball forward but don't turn in over at the end of the positive run.

The + / - idea mentioned above is kind of a bridge between individual play (which a kid can control) and team play (which has many many other factors involved, many out of the control of the child). It comes down to why you are keeping the stat in the first place. If its to improve your kid's play, I would vote for kept possession + / lost possession -, not goals for and against. The quality of the team you are on will have too big an impact on the + / - goals stat.

I look forward to additional input and perhaps someone starting a new thread on how parents can use measurements to help their DDs. I do think the main topic here was to help everyone understand the inherent flaws in FBR and why it should not be taken so seriously.
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Updated FBR - 11/25/11 Empty Re: Updated FBR - 11/25/11

Post by Itsme on 26/11/11, 04:16 pm

deepthoughts wrote:Well, I really was talking about what might be feasible to measure and rank teams versus each other, better than the results-is-all-that-matters FBR.

Individual stats that a parent could feasibly keep under the "what gets measured gets improved" category is another topic, probably deserving of its own topic thread. I'm not sure how + / - goals scored and goals allowed, while your kid is on field, helps your kid improve.

My first thought would be completed passes / kept possession versus unforced errors and turnovers.

I have seen wingers that gain a good reputation because they drive the ball forward 30 yards on the dribble when they touch it. But if the same kid then holds the ball too long, the end of the run becomes a consistant turnover or unforced error. These stats, when presented in a positive way to the child, would help them concentrate on improving their individual play. In this example, drive the ball forward but don't turn in over at the end of the positive run.

The + / - idea mentioned above is kind of a bridge between individual play (which a kid can control) and team play (which has many many other factors involved, many out of the control of the child). It comes down to why you are keeping the stat in the first place. If its to improve your kid's play, I would vote for kept possession + / lost possession -, not goals for and against. The quality of the team you are on will have too big an impact on the + / - goals stat.

I look forward to additional input and perhaps someone starting a new thread on how parents can use measurements to help their DDs. I do think the main topic here was to help everyone understand the inherent flaws in FBR and why it should not be taken so seriously.

Not sure this would work for an individual player, but an interesting app: http://soccermeter.com/wp/




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