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Post by oldboot 07/11/12, 02:58 pm

go99 wrote: scratch

I would be the first to say HN can win games. He just can't teach you how to play. Which is supposed to be the reason for the ECNL

Where is Charlie Sheen when you need him . . . WINNING!

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Post by DrSoccer 08/11/12, 10:26 am

The reason for the creation of ecnl was for the clubs to have complete control, not for player development. They didnt like USYSA dictating to them- so they created their own league and left. The old model did not prohibit player development and the new model doesn't make it any more likely. HN,KM,CR,AS still control the player development in NTX, just as they did before. There is a broader pool of above average players due to the younger academies but still only a few elite players. If the clubs had mandatory technical/skills 1.5hrs a day, 4days a week, from 6-12yrs, and 3 team practices then we would see some true player development that would be noticible, but which club/player is going to make that investment/committment? Regardless of the league affilition you still need kids spending 10-14hrs a week with coaches who understand how to coach technique till 12.
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Post by DrSoccer 08/11/12, 10:44 am

its also interesting to note that fcd and solar seem to be doing a better job of developing their players pre-ecnl, it's too bad they can't hold on to them. As long as txns and sting can raid the players that fcd/sol develop there is little incentive to work on it themselves. For example a quick check shows the U15 sting team with 21 of their 26 goals this season have been scored by 4 players from FCD's youth program. Ony 5 goals from kids that were 'developed' by sting?So even sting recognizes that FCD is doing a better job?
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Post by Pele98 08/11/12, 11:43 am

DrSoccer wrote:its also interesting to note that fcd and solar seem to be doing a better job of developing their players pre-ecnl, it's too bad they can't hold on to them. As long as txns and sting can raid the players that fcd/sol develop there is little incentive to work on it themselves. For example a quick check shows the U15 sting team with 21 of their 26 goals this season have been scored by 4 players from FCD's youth program. Ony 5 goals from kids that were 'developed' by sting?So even sting recognizes that FCD is doing a better job?

DrSoccer, your argument and example above seems to suggest that only 'developed' players can score or should be able to score. While it might be a tiny bit correct, it nonetheless ignores a TON of assumptions and facts, of which the primary one is, it takes 11 dds on the field to score or stop from getting scored on. Not to mention playing format, style, players' preference by coaches, etc.

I think it is the Rec mentality which tends to look at the dd who kicked the ball past the line into the net, as the best player or as you put it in your case 'developed' player. It is the myopic view of the game, IMHO.

Sting U15 ECNL team is the most midfield loaded team in the age group, which obviously makes it easy for 1, 2 or may be 3 offensive dds to put a finishing touch on any build up. That doesn't necessarily make the other 8, 9 or 10 dds in the field less 'developed' than the scorer(s).

And if, just for a moment let me try and buy into your argument, being able to score implies 'development' what does that make the defenders and GKs? I guess least 'developed'....? Embarassed
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Post by go99 08/11/12, 03:53 pm

stated goals of the ECNL:

MISSION: The Elite Clubs National League (ECNL) was founded in 2009 to enhance the developmental experience of female youth soccer players in the United States through:

Improving the competitive environment through creation of a true national competitive league with multiple flights;
Improving the process for identifying elite female soccer players for the U.S. Soccer youth national teams through a systematic scouting and identification program based on national competitions; and
Improving the daily training environment at top female youth soccer clubs through developing best practices and training and organizational guidelines for its member clubs .
GOAL: The goal of the Elite Clubs National League (ECNL) is to change the landscape for elite female soccer players in the United States through innovative, player-centered programming and to enhance the overall experience by creating a better, more enjoyable, and more successful player, coach, and club development model.

Now while it is similar to the boys Academy League it does not seem to be organized by US soccer. Its origional intention was to help develope a better player for US soccer. Now you could agrue that they are doing a terrible job at it but the conspiracy club theory is just that a theory.

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Post by JeffM 08/11/12, 04:19 pm

go99 wrote:stated goals of the ECNL:

MISSION: The Elite Clubs National League (ECNL) was founded in 2009 to enhance the developmental experience of female youth soccer players in the United States through:

Improving the competitive environment through creation of a true national competitive league with multiple flights;
Improving the process for identifying elite female soccer players for the U.S. Soccer youth national teams through a systematic scouting and identification program based on national competitions; and
Improving the daily training environment at top female youth soccer clubs through developing best practices and training and organizational guidelines for its member clubs .
GOAL: The goal of the Elite Clubs National League (ECNL) is to change the landscape for elite female soccer players in the United States through innovative, player-centered programming and to enhance the overall experience by creating a better, more enjoyable, and more successful player, coach, and club development model.

Now while it is similar to the boys Academy League it does not seem to be organized by US soccer. Its origional intention was to help develope a better player for US soccer. Now you could agrue that they are doing a terrible job at it but the conspiracy club theory is just that a theory.


"enhance the developmental experience" sounds like they just want everyone to feel good about what they are doing.

So how are the ECNL practices, etc. different from what they were before ECNL? What are the ECNL clubs now doing differently?

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Post by DrSoccer 08/11/12, 05:39 pm

pele i'm not making an argument, just an observation regarding 'development', and surely i realize it takes 11 to play the game. When people start putting up club rankings and talk about developing young players sometimes it's helpful to look deeper to see where those kids played in the important 8-12 age group. The top team in an age group wouldn't recruit 4 average players off another club and have them accidentally score 75% of the team's goals. Whoever those 4-5 kids are they are offensive studs, and whoever coached them up to 12 did a good job at development. And i have seen no difference between the pre-ecnl practice and ecnl ones, has anyone else? And US Soccer monitors and evaluates the Academy teams in us soccer, while ecnl evaluates and polices itself.
http://www.socceramerica.com/article/43960/top-us-boys-clubs-get-report-cards.html

http://www.ussoccer.com/Teams/Development-Academy/Academy-Overview.aspx
If you scroll down to academy evaluation documents you can click on the END OF YEAR EVALUATION and see how US soccer evaluated each club in detail.And its' not based on winning
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Post by Pele98 09/11/12, 11:52 am

DrSoccer wrote:pele i'm not making an argument, just an observation regarding 'development', and surely i realize it takes 11 to play the game. When people start putting up club rankings and talk about developing young players sometimes it's helpful to look deeper to see where those kids played in the important 8-12 age group. The top team in an age group wouldn't recruit 4 average players off another club and have them accidentally score 75% of the team's goals. Whoever those 4-5 kids are they are offensive studs, and whoever coached them up to 12 did a good job at development. And i have seen no difference between the pre-ecnl practice and ecnl ones, has anyone else? And US Soccer monitors and evaluates the Academy teams in us soccer, while ecnl evaluates and polices itself.
http://www.socceramerica.com/article/43960/top-us-boys-clubs-get-report-cards.html

http://www.ussoccer.com/Teams/Development-Academy/Academy-Overview.aspx
If you scroll down to academy evaluation documents you can click on the END OF YEAR EVALUATION and see how US soccer evaluated each club in detail.And its' not based on winning



An observation coupled with examples and opinions stated as facts, can clearly be construed as an argument.

I also have strong reservations on your statement about "...important 8 - 12 age group", but I guess that will be a discussion for another day and another thread.
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Post by go99 09/11/12, 03:22 pm

JeffM wrote:
go99 wrote:stated goals of the ECNL:

MISSION: The Elite Clubs National League (ECNL) was founded in 2009 to enhance the developmental experience of female youth soccer players in the United States through:

Improving the competitive environment through creation of a true national competitive league with multiple flights;
Improving the process for identifying elite female soccer players for the U.S. Soccer youth national teams through a systematic scouting and identification program based on national competitions; and
Improving the daily training environment at top female youth soccer clubs through developing best practices and training and organizational guidelines for its member clubs .
GOAL: The goal of the Elite Clubs National League (ECNL) is to change the landscape for elite female soccer players in the United States through innovative, player-centered programming and to enhance the overall experience by creating a better, more enjoyable, and more successful player, coach, and club development model.

Now while it is similar to the boys Academy League it does not seem to be organized by US soccer. Its origional intention was to help develope a better player for US soccer. Now you could agrue that they are doing a terrible job at it but the conspiracy club theory is just that a theory.


"enhance the developmental experience" sounds like they just want everyone to feel good about what they are doing.

So how are the ECNL practices, etc. different from what they were before ECNL? What are the ECNL clubs now doing differently?

Well now you are delving into whether they are being successful at the stated goals and thats and entirely different question. But the stated goals as a develomental league with the eye of creating a better player for the national team is clear
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Post by JeffM 09/11/12, 03:50 pm

go99 wrote:
JeffM wrote:
go99 wrote:stated goals of the ECNL:

MISSION: The Elite Clubs National League (ECNL) was founded in 2009 to enhance the developmental experience of female youth soccer players in the United States through:

Improving the competitive environment through creation of a true national competitive league with multiple flights;
Improving the process for identifying elite female soccer players for the U.S. Soccer youth national teams through a systematic scouting and identification program based on national competitions; and
Improving the daily training environment at top female youth soccer clubs through developing best practices and training and organizational guidelines for its member clubs .
GOAL: The goal of the Elite Clubs National League (ECNL) is to change the landscape for elite female soccer players in the United States through innovative, player-centered programming and to enhance the overall experience by creating a better, more enjoyable, and more successful player, coach, and club development model.

Now while it is similar to the boys Academy League it does not seem to be organized by US soccer. Its origional intention was to help develope a better player for US soccer. Now you could agrue that they are doing a terrible job at it but the conspiracy club theory is just that a theory.


"enhance the developmental experience" sounds like they just want everyone to feel good about what they are doing.

So how are the ECNL practices, etc. different from what they were before ECNL? What are the ECNL clubs now doing differently?

Well now you are delving into whether they are being successful at the stated goals and thats and entirely different question. But the stated goals as a develomental league with the eye of creating a better player for the national team is clear

True, and to date, the only thing I have heard that is better in ECNL is exposure to college coaches (which isn't even in the mission statement). The money is supposed to be the same as Premier League, but no one has commented on what specifically is being done differently by clubs since ECNL with best pracitces, innovative player programming, etc. What exactly is being passed on to coaches and clubs to accomplish the mission?

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ECNL Club Rankings - Page 2 Empty Latest Texas Division ECNL Club Rankings Thru December 2nd

Post by soccerstand 06/12/12, 05:19 pm

TEXAS DIVISION U14 TO U18
Rank Club PPG PTS GP W T L GF GA GD
1 STING 2.22 120 54 36 12 6 121 39 82
2 TEXANS 2.16 119 55 36 11 8 115 40 75
3 LONESTAR 1.61 95 59 26 17 16 94 53 41
4 FC DALLAS 1.47 72 49 20 12 17 61 75 -14
5 SOLAR 1.23 58 47 16 10 21 79 66 13
6 TSC 1.22 73 60 22 7 31 97 120 -23
7 D'FEETERS 1.10 69 63 18 15 30 62 76 -14
8 CHALLENGE 1.10 55 50 14 13 23 56 79 -23
9 RUSH 1.00 64 64 18 10 36 60 133 -73
10 ALBION 0.99 68 69 17 17 35 51 115 -64
Sum Avg 1.39 793 570 223 124 223 796 796 0

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