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Lake Highlands Refs - Page 2 Empty Re: Lake Highlands Refs

Post by Lefty 17/10/12, 10:19 pm

Its Me wrote:So are we going to start seeing videos every week of Referees throughout North Texas? This is the second video in two weeks.
Maybe someone needs to start a Referee Video forumn. Shocked


A little sunshine on a bad situation often cures the problem.

Videos with the Refs name may qualify as Sunshine.

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Post by Guest 17/10/12, 11:00 pm

God bless this young lady and her parents. I am seeing on a weekly basis where the refs are not controlling these games. Although I didnt see this game, I would bet serious money this egregious foul was the result of a game where the refs were calling a loose, inconsistent game. It is obvious to me, there were hard fouls not called earlier in the game and it got out of control (nothing done earlier in the game would justify the foul).

I wonder how many injuries that officiating crew has had during the year? There must be a correlation between poor officiating and injuries. In between emails talking about undisciplined sidelines, I hope the league is checking up on the horrible officiating we are seeing this season.

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Post by Triumph FC 17/10/12, 11:13 pm

SoccerJedi wrote:God bless this young lady and her parents. I am seeing on a weekly basis where the refs are not controlling these games. Although I didnt see this game, I would bet serious money this egregious foul was the result of a game where the refs were calling a loose, inconsistent game. It is obvious to me, there were hard fouls not called earlier in the game and it got out of control (nothing done earlier in the game would justify the foul).

I wonder how many injuries that officiating crew has had during the year? There must be a correlation between poor officiating and injuries. In between emails talking about undisciplined sidelines, I hope the league is checking up on the horrible officiating we are seeing this season.

I was there as I'm the coach and I will say this, I have no complaints about the ref other than his failure to send off the player and the fact when we were down by a goal that he was allowing the opposition to sub on OUR throw ins which slowed down the momentum for us. It was not called loosely because there were no bad fouls from either team. There was just one, which is all I'm willing to say. Its better to act with class and ALL my teams I coach will, under any provacation, always play the right way. If I saw my player doing what happened here she would not have played another minute in that game and maybe more. Again I reiterate I could see it was a barge in the back from where I was standing but I didnt see what is evident on the video.
(nothing done earlier in the game would justify the foul)(quote)
How about stopping a goal scoring oppotunity just because someone is in front of you?
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Post by upper95 18/10/12, 12:26 am

Larger defender chased down the smaller attacker and attempts to shoulder the attacker off the ball from the left side/behind with the ball out of reach near the attacker's right foot. Failing this, and running out of time, used her arm to drive the attacker down from behind. Obvious goal scoring opportunity AND serious foul play. Not only was the goal scoring chance denied by a foul, the foul was brutal. Warrants a red card and a multiple game suspension (a well-written misconduct report can accomplish this).

Sympathy for the injured DD.





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Post by DoubleDDRedux 18/10/12, 12:48 am

If that girl's parents are reading this then understand this: you have done a shit job of raising that girl. She showed no remorse at all after she assaulted the other girl. You are trash and your spawn is guaranteed to have a criminal record in the future.
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Post by DoubleDDRedux 18/10/12, 12:50 am

upper95 wrote:Larger defender chased down the smaller attacker and attempts to shoulder the attacker off the ball from the left side/behind with the ball out of reach near the attacker's right foot. Failing this, and running out of time, used her arm to drive the attacker down from behind. Obvious goal scoring opportunity AND serious foul play. Not only was the goal scoring chance denied by a foul, the foul was brutal. Warrants a red card and a multiple game suspension (a well-written misconduct report can accomplish this).

Sympathy for the injured DD.




that was an assault not a professional hard foul. She should be banned and the ref should be fired.
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Post by DoubleDDRedux 18/10/12, 12:53 am

SoccerJedi wrote:God bless this young lady and her parents. I am seeing on a weekly basis where the refs are not controlling these games. Although I didnt see this game, I would bet serious money this egregious foul was the result of a game where the refs were calling a loose, inconsistent game. It is obvious to me, there were hard fouls not called earlier in the game and it got out of control (nothing done earlier in the game would justify the foul).

I wonder how many injuries that officiating crew has had during the year? There must be a correlation between poor officiating and injuries. In between emails talking about undisciplined sidelines, I hope the league is checking up on the horrible officiating we are seeing this season.
i bet if that asshole ref's insurance had to pay for that girl's medical costs then that foul wouldn't have happened and if it had it would have been severely punished.
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Post by DoubleDDRedux 18/10/12, 12:55 am

Where are all the prick refs now? They don't post when one of their own does a bad bad thing.
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Post by Lefty 18/10/12, 07:06 am

Triumph FC wrote:
SoccerJedi wrote:God bless this young lady and her parents. I am seeing on a weekly basis where the refs are not controlling these games. Although I didnt see this game, I would bet serious money this egregious foul was the result of a game where the refs were calling a loose, inconsistent game. It is obvious to me, there were hard fouls not called earlier in the game and it got out of control (nothing done earlier in the game would justify the foul).

I wonder how many injuries that officiating crew has had during the year? There must be a correlation between poor officiating and injuries. In between emails talking about undisciplined sidelines, I hope the league is checking up on the horrible officiating we are seeing this season.

I was there as I'm the coach and I will say this, I have no complaints about the ref other than his failure to send off the player and the fact when we were down by a goal that he was allowing the opposition to sub on OUR throw ins which slowed down the momentum for us. It was not called loosely because there were no bad fouls from either team. There was just one, which is all I'm willing to say. Its better to act with class and ALL my teams I coach will, under any provacation, always play the right way. If I saw my player doing what happened here she would not have played another minute in that game and maybe more. Again I reiterate I could see it was a barge in the back from where I was standing but I didnt see what is evident on the video.
(nothing done earlier in the game would justify the foul)(quote)
How about stopping a goal scoring oppotunity just because someone is in front of you?

What did the Sting coach do?


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Post by Triumph FC 18/10/12, 08:35 am

Nothing but in real time it looked like a barge in the back
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Post by Its Me 18/10/12, 09:34 am

DoubleDDRedux wrote:Where are all the prick refs now? They don't post when one of their own does a bad bad thing.
WOW!!!!! Really????

Two hours after the initial post you will see that there is a post as to the Laws of the Games according to 12.37 and 12.3
"Prick refs" I can tell from your comments you're one of the silent parents on the sideline.
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Post by tmcc 18/10/12, 10:11 am

Bad officiating always seems to be the parents fault when they complain. Oh you are one of those parents, is always the assumption. Why is it wrong as a parent to want the adult in charge of protecting your kid during the game, to know the laws of the game and to be held to a certain standard? I don't think it is. Judging by the video, that gentleman referee appeared to be too old and too slow to officiate that level of soccer. The AR should have come over and helped the center make the correct call and get that girl ejected.

In my daughters game this past weekend her game tieing goal was disallowed with 20 secs. left in the game because according to the referee, her shot was from inside the 6 yard box and you cannot shoot from inside the 6 yard box. Yes that is really what he said and yes this was D1 Lake Highlands. But, I am just one of those parents that "thinks" he knows the laws better than the officials.

Maybe, just maybe, Lake Highlands needs to do more to train the officials and worry less about the parents.
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Post by 4-4-2-Diamond 18/10/12, 10:13 am

TNT wrote:Fully understand, I was attempting to add to the sarcastic humour as most of the time when anyone says anything about refs the response is to become one, which is absurd.
And it was an obvious clear foul that moe, larry or curly should have called, I would not think all 3 are not blind, but I could be wrong.

It's not absurd. It's an approach to solving a problem.

I'm a lifelong soccer fan and parent of a LH player. I have been refereeing about a year. I decided to become a ref after getting fed up watching too many games where I felt officials on girls games were endangering players. I watched a game where my daughter was punched in the nose with closed fist (straight right) by a keeper during normal corner kick jostling. No cards were given. No foul called. She continued playing for about 5 minutes with blood running down her nose until the referee finally noticed and had her subbed. Her coach, who typically harassed referees as a matter of game management, said nothing to the ref, or to her, other than encouraging her to go stand in front of the keeper again at the next corner kick. The rest of the game descended to total chaos with dangerous fouls on both teams ignored.

I had my DD and the keeper apologize to each other after the game. I also decided that night I would do three things:

1) teach my daughter how to defend herself should that situation occur again.

2) Think long and hard about whether my daughter should be playing with said coach and even playing this sport at all.

3) Get involved in the referee program as a way to give back to the game.

Why did I even think becoming a ref was an option? Because a parent ref on a thread similar to this one (several years ago) encouraged concerned parents to get involved in officiating. It's really not that difficult to become involved. Once you spend a weekend to get certified, you can take as many or as few games as your time (and skill) permit. It is however much more difficult to do it well than it looks from the sidelines, even for lifelong fans, players and students of the game. And you will likely find that you are a lot more clueless than you thought you were about how LOTG should be properly applied. As of now, you don't know what you don't know.

If you believe however, that you could've protected the players and applied the laws better than the ref in this video, and you're willing and able to make the time commitment, then becoming an official is one of several reasonable approaches to helping address the problem.

My goal is to become a good enough ref so that some day I can help improve the level of officiating in the competitive girls game - especially in regards to player safety. As of now, I prefer not to do girls games because the more challenging games that help me hone skill are boys or adult matches. Maybe that's an arrogant goal...but I feel better about my approach than doing nothing but complaining about the state of affairs on the local soccer forum.

That said, LH is doing the absolute right thing with their recent emails upping the ante on controlling behavior. Kudos to them. As I've said before, they should ALSO monitor and assess their officials more often to ensure a min. standard of quality as seen in other local leagues.

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Post by Triumph FC 18/10/12, 10:23 am

Its Me lets not go there with that comment. I did see it but if we dont comment it would have been buried.
There are some that are better than others, there are some I flat out dont like (maybe they dont like me either) but we all have a job to do and they try to do the best they can. As I said previously I wasn't unhappy with the ref the whole game but that particular incident I thought he got totally wrong! Its happening way to often in LH's and something needs to be done to educate the ref's on their failings. He didn't give a card because he said it wasn't a foul it was just 2 players coming together. If you have every played the game you would have known, one player in front and another player racing up from behind and at a slight angle was NEVER going to be just 2 players coming together but too many ref's have never played the game, dont know what is different from an injury ending season foul to a silly rubber band thats on your wrist that needs removing! Thats where I have an issue. Way too many late shots after the ball has gone that are deemed accidental when they are not! I can point out players that are there to just cause as much injury to others rather than play but most refs can only spot the rubber band on the players wrist, lets educate rather than rip them apart! Thank you all for your kind wishes I know we and our player really appreciate them and your comments here. Yes she is reading these so lets keep it clean on and off the field
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Post by Triumph FC 18/10/12, 10:26 am

That said, LH is doing the absolute right thing with their recent emails upping the ante on controlling behavior. Kudos to them. As I've said before, they should ALSO monitor and assess their officials more often to ensure a min. standard of quality as seen in other local leagues (quote)

Couldn't agree more. I would love to sit with the ref and LH's and discuss the incident so we can all learn from it.
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Post by Guest 18/10/12, 11:16 am

Gunner9 wrote:By Law he has no choice. Last defender, obvious goal-scoring opportunity. Red.

I agree 100%. That ref is quite old. I suspect his vision is very poor. There is no excuse for missing that call. The play is at the ball. Where else should he be looking? He either doesn't know LOTG, or he is blind. Both of those conditions should disqualify him from being a referee. I see these incredibly bad calls/ no calls almost every weekend. I'm sorry your daughter was hurt. We deserve better.

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Post by DoubleDDRedux 18/10/12, 11:51 am

Triumph FC wrote:Its Me lets not go there with that comment. I did see it but if we dont comment it would have been buried.
There are some that are better than others, there are some I flat out dont like (maybe they dont like me either) but we all have a job to do and they try to do the best they can. As I said previously I wasn't unhappy with the ref the whole game but that particular incident I thought he got totally wrong! Its happening way to often in LH's and something needs to be done to educate the ref's on their failings. He didn't give a card because he said it wasn't a foul it was just 2 players coming together. If you have every played the game you would have known, one player in front and another player racing up from behind and at a slight angle was NEVER going to be just 2 players coming together but too many ref's have never played the game, dont know what is different from an injury ending season foul to a silly rubber band thats on your wrist that needs removing! Thats where I have an issue. Way too many late shots after the ball has gone that are deemed accidental when they are not! I can point out players that are there to just cause as much injury to others rather than play but most refs can only spot the rubber band on the players wrist, lets educate rather than rip them apart! Thank you all for your kind wishes I know we and our player really appreciate them and your comments here. Yes she is reading these so lets keep it clean on and off the field
i understand you need to be careful with your comments but that foul was a malicious attack. The only attempt was to elbow the girl in the back in order to knock her down. At a minimum she should receive a multiple match ban.
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Post by my2cents 18/10/12, 11:53 am

tmcc wrote:Bad officiating always seems to be the parents fault when they complain. Oh you are one of those parents, is always the assumption. And many times it is correct Why is it wrong as a parent to want the adult in charge of protecting your kid during the game, to know the laws of the game and to be held to a certain standard? Nothing wrong with that I don't think it is. Judging by the video, that gentleman referee appeared to be too old and too slow to officiate that level of soccer. And here we go into one of those parents land. What was occurring at the other end prior to the break away? Was there a scrum around the goal that required him to get in tighter? Was the play in the other box seconds prior? Can you get down the pitch as fast as a well executed attack ?The AR should have come over and helped the center make the correct call and get that girl ejected. If you are qualified enough to determine a ref is not fit for a game then you know that the foul was clearly outside the quadrant of the AR if they were running the predominant right to left set up.

In my daughters game this past weekend her game tieing goal was disallowed with 20 secs. left in the game because according to the referee, her shot was from inside the 6 yard box and you cannot shoot from inside the 6 yard box. Yes that is really what he said and yes this was D1 Lake Highlands. Wow I am really shocked at this. He came over and explained his call to the parent's side line? But, I am just one of those parents that "thinks" he knows the laws better than the officials.

Maybe, just maybe, Lake Highlands needs to do more to train the officials and worry less about the parents.
Here you are right that they do need to worry less about the parents, especially yhe ones that are complaining they lost because of the ref.

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Post by Coach 18/10/12, 12:17 pm

Red Card.
Period.

But why bash just one ref?
If he is "running a left" then the AR should have had a better view of the play than the Ref did.
Doesn't he have a grade 8 badge too? He doesn't know that should have been a red card?

If my experienced AR tells me it should be a red, then a red it is. You have to trust your crew to make the right decisions.
I have had refs tell me that I shouldn't call fouls in the box when i was an AR. It's "their responsibility". Arrogant idiots.

Looks like this guy was just old, slow and out of position to see the foul? Maybe his view was blocked by other players?

The AR should have informed the ref.

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Post by upper95 18/10/12, 12:30 pm

tmcc wrote:

In my daughters game this past weekend her game tieing goal was disallowed with 20 secs. left in the game because according to the referee, her shot was from inside the 6 yard box and you cannot shoot from inside the 6 yard box. Yes that is really what he said and yes this was D1 Lake Highlands. Wow I am really shocked at this. He came over and explained his call to the parent's side line? But, I am just one of those parents that "thinks" he knows the laws better than the officials.


The ONLY instance in which this would be true is an indirect free kick awarded to attacking team in the goal area ( the 6-yard box). The ball has to be brought back to the top of the 6 before being put back into play.

There are some rec leagues that have this rule for Under-5 and U6 to keep coaches from using goalkeepers and cherry pickers... to encourage involvement in play and more touches.

I hope it was the former case and not the latter.



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Post by Gunner9 18/10/12, 12:52 pm

tmcc wrote:

In my daughters game this past weekend her game tieing goal was disallowed with 20 secs. left in the game because according to the referee, her shot was from inside the 6 yard box and you cannot shoot from inside the 6 yard box.

LOL!! Our U-6's played indoor this Summer w/o keeper and could not enter the box. When they moved outdoor this Fall it caused a bit of confusion now that they could enter and play the ball in the box. Confusion lasted about 5 minutes until it was explained. But LHGCL? Classic.
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Post by my2cents 18/10/12, 12:57 pm

Coach wrote:Red Card.
Period.

But why bash just one ref?
If he is "running a left" then the AR should have had a better view of the play than the Ref did.
Doesn't he have a grade 8 badge too? He doesn't know that should have been a red card?

If my experienced AR tells me it should be a red, then a red it is. You have to trust your crew to make the right decisions.
I have had refs tell me that I shouldn't call fouls in the box when i was an AR. It's "their responsibility". Arrogant idiots.

Looks like this guy was just old, slow and out of position to see the foul? Maybe his view was blocked by other players?

The AR should have informed the ref.



No doubt it was a red card.

It is not within the AR's authority to flag a call outside his quadrant. No throwing the AR under the bus on this one if the CR did not come over to ask his opinion. I do agree ARs should make calls. I too hate when a CR won't respect the calls of his ARs. Poor game managment. In the older groups the players that prefer to play dirty have a field day when the see that.

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Post by tmcc 18/10/12, 01:25 pm

my2cents wrote:
tmcc wrote:Bad officiating always seems to be the parents fault when they complain. Oh you are one of those parents, is always the assumption. And many times it is correct Why is it wrong as a parent to want the adult in charge of protecting your kid during the game, to know the laws of the game and to be held to a certain standard? Nothing wrong with that I don't think it is. Judging by the video, that gentleman referee appeared to be too old and too slow to officiate that level of soccer. And here we go into one of those parents land. What was occurring at the other end prior to the break away? Was there a scrum around the goal that required him to get in tighter? Was the play in the other box seconds prior? Can you get down the pitch as fast as a well executed attack ?The AR should have come over and helped the center make the correct call and get that girl ejected. If you are qualified enough to determine a ref is not fit for a game then you know that the foul was clearly outside the quadrant of the AR if they were running the predominant right to left set up.

In my daughters game this past weekend her game tieing goal was disallowed with 20 secs. left in the game because according to the referee, her shot was from inside the 6 yard box and you cannot shoot from inside the 6 yard box. Yes that is really what he said and yes this was D1 Lake Highlands. Wow I am really shocked at this. He came over and explained his call to the parent's side line? But, I am just one of those parents that "thinks" he knows the laws better than the officials.

Maybe, just maybe, Lake Highlands needs to do more to train the officials and worry less about the parents.
Here you are right that they do need to worry less about the parents, especially yhe ones that are complaining they lost because of the ref.

Obviously I don't know what happened on the other side of the field prior to the foul, the video did not show that. You are grasping at straws to try and make my evaluation less plausible. I made my evaluation based on what I saw in the video, an over weight, older gentleman that didn't move very well. I love the fact that he is out there doing his best. I truly do. It is not his fault he is assigned to a game that is played on a larger field with older faster athletes. Seems to me he would be better suited for smaller sides and smaller fields. In fact, in handling the situation the way he did, his style would be better suited for younger players, where such violent fouls are less common and referees are instructed to let the girls play. He is simply too slow to keep up with the pace of the game, unless of course he is one of those very common older, over weight people, that can run forever at a varying pace as required by the athletes on the field that are 1/3 of his age. Like I said before, I don't think it is the referees fault. The assignor should be blamed and whoever trains our officials should be blamed as well. Will LHGCL apologize to the athlete that was hurt, or her family or her team. Probably not. But if the coach or a parent were kicked out over this call, then start lining up the paperwork and fines for the convicted.

As for the AR and his quadrant, the video did not show him/her, so I will just assume he/she were doing their job and staying with the last defender.....I learned this at the LHGCL meeting on referees a few weeks back.....and in 1982 when I became a referee myself. I know that AR's are not supposed to talk unless spoken to by the center (because they are so well trained as opposed to the AR...not), but in a situation like this, the AR has to have some guts and pull the center aside and say that is an ejection. What is wrong with getting the call right? Again, that is assuming the AR was in position to see that wide open foul with nothing between the sideline and the infraction, to block his/her view.

And no, the referee in my daughters game didn't come over and explain the call to the parents, although that would have been awesome. My daughter asked the center right then, why that wasn't a goal, and that is when the center ref told her you can't shoot inside the 6. She told us the story right after the game. You will be happy to know that I did not approach the referee to ask him why he thinks that is a rule, even though I walked right by him....my wife gave me a look like "you better not". I just let it go. You just can't explain stupid sometimes. But it would be nice to try and fix it so it doesn't happen to another team.
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Post by tmcc 18/10/12, 01:27 pm

Gunner9 wrote:
tmcc wrote:

In my daughters game this past weekend her game tieing goal was disallowed with 20 secs. left in the game because according to the referee, her shot was from inside the 6 yard box and you cannot shoot from inside the 6 yard box.

LOL!! Our U-6's played indoor this Summer w/o keeper and could not enter the box. When they moved outdoor this Fall it caused a bit of confusion now that they could enter and play the ball in the box. Confusion lasted about 5 minutes until it was explained. But LHGCL? Classic.

Believe it! Ridiculous. Loss instead of a tie. Huge for trying to stay D1.
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Post by Slakemoth 18/10/12, 01:49 pm

tmcc wrote:And no, the referee in my daughters game didn't come over and explain the call to the parents, although that would have been awesome. My daughter asked the center right then, why that wasn't a goal, and that is when the center ref told her you can't shoot inside the 6. She told us the story right after the game.

Just out of curiosity, did the "dis-allowed" goal come after your daughter's team maybe intercepted a goal kick before it got outside the 18 box, and scored off that? I could see a kid not understanding a referee's explanation on that and being confused...

dd = "why didn't the goal count?"
ref = "you can't shoot a ball that was inside the box."
dd = "say whaaaaa? whatchoo talkin bout Willis?"
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Post by Its Me 18/10/12, 01:49 pm

Triumph FC wrote:Its Me lets not go there with that comment. I did see it but if we dont comment it would have been buried.
There are some that are better than others, there are some I flat out dont like (maybe they dont like me either) but we all have a job to do and they try to do the best they can. As I said previously I wasn't unhappy with the ref the whole game but that particular incident I thought he got totally wrong! Its happening way to often in LH's and something needs to be done to educate the ref's on their failings. He didn't give a card because he said it wasn't a foul it was just 2 players coming together. If you have every played the game you would have known, one player in front and another player racing up from behind and at a slight angle was NEVER going to be just 2 players coming together but too many ref's have never played the game, dont know what is different from an injury ending season foul to a silly rubber band thats on your wrist that needs removing! Thats where I have an issue. Way too many late shots after the ball has gone that are deemed accidental when they are not! I can point out players that are there to just cause as much injury to others rather than play but most refs can only spot the rubber band on the players wrist, lets educate rather than rip them apart! Thank you all for your kind wishes I know we and our player really appreciate them and your comments here. Yes she is reading these so lets keep it clean on and off the field
Again, look at the whole thread. I said in the beginning and posted the law that you were correct. So I'm not disagreeing with you. The call was missed. Also the urgency to get to the spot of the foul was not there due to him walking.

My comment of "Prick Refs" was that it was plural. Also, that adults shouldn't be calling others Prick.

As far the AR. If the AR is aware of the missed call then they need to call the center over and explain the law as to the foul. If the center who has the final decision decides not to make the call then that's his option. However, the AR's are there to assist regardless of the Centers ego.

My goal here is not to belittle another referee but to assist in helping people to understand the Law and how to apply it.

I'm out!


Last edited by Its Me on 18/10/12, 02:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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