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How does your HS team fill its roster? Pixel
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How does your HS team fill its roster?

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How does your HS team fill its roster? Empty How does your HS team fill its roster?

Post by momreccos 25/09/13, 06:31 pm

I was reading previous posts in regards to how Plano fills its roster and I have heard stories...so how do other High Schools compare?  Do high school coaches focus on talent (ECNL,LH D1, D2, D3, PPL), Legacy, "who you know" or popularity? And does this vary from a 5A to a 4A school?  


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Post by intrinsic 25/09/13, 08:39 pm

What about having try-outs and evaluating the players' ability to fill the various roles needed for the team, and selecting the players who are best suited for those roles?

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Post by JustaSport 25/09/13, 09:01 pm

intrinsic wrote:What about having try-outs and evaluating the players' ability to fill the various roles needed for the team, and selecting the players who are best suited for those roles?
Exactly. I know for a fact that the athletic directors for many ISD's have very specific rules in place for what questions the high school coaches can ask when evaluating players. In fact, I know coaches who have gotten into hot water for asking what divisions the prospective players are in for select soccer, what clubs they are with, etc. The idea is to give everyone a fair shake. If a varsity coach can't recognize the talent without having to be told, then either he doesn't know what he's doing or the talented player isn't as great as she thought she was.
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Post by Kenshi Dave 25/09/13, 10:47 pm

I get the impression that you think ECNL players ... or D1 players are given an unfair advantage simply because they play in those leagues ...

You need to understand that ECNL and D1 players ARE typically significantly better than players in lower divisions and certainly Plano Premier and Rec.

There can be the odd player here or there that somehow made a decision to not play ECNL or Lake Highlands, but they are a rare find.


If you have a "fair tryout" ECNL players are significantly better than D1,  D1 is significantly better than D2, and so on ... again that's not to say there can't be a rare find.


The other thing you need to consider is that ALL the ECNL & D1 Club players know the "little sisters" that "got game" ... and are very quick to tell the coach ... they want the best players on their team.

The ECNL and then D1 and then D2 concept also goes with college recruiting ... many N Tx 95s are playing for major DI college programs, some D1s play for minor DI programs or DII/DIII programs ... not much college play if your DD played below LHD1. Again always an odd exception, but very, very few. Colleges recruit where the best players play.
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Post by TNT 26/09/13, 04:15 pm

I think some schools go by the "any, many, minnie, moe, who's going to donate to me bro" rule.

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Post by TNT 26/09/13, 04:23 pm

"If you have a "fair tryout" ECNL players are significantly better than D1"
I have to call a foul on that one as with 5 ECNL teams in the watered down Dallas area ECNL pool some barely roster a team and would certainly bet on upper level D1 teams especially against some lower level ECNL from this area in the same age group. Many upper level D1 players play at their chosen level not because they can't make the all great ECNL, but because the parents refuse to make the extra expenditures. Just look at some of the ECNL records and tell me how great they are.

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Post by jabberjaw 28/09/13, 06:33 pm

TNT wrote:"If you have a "fair tryout" ECNL players are significantly better than D1"
I have to call a foul on that one as with 5 ECNL teams in the watered down Dallas area ECNL pool some barely roster a team and would certainly bet on upper level D1 teams especially against some lower level ECNL from this area in the same age group. Many upper level D1 players play at their chosen level not because they can't make the all great ECNL, but because the parents refuse to make the extra expenditures. Just look at some of the ECNL records and tell me how great they are.
facts r facts. Don't hate on ken shiftable, he is speaking the truth.. But your point is valid and also confirms what kenshidave is saying about ecnl and d1 players..
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Post by tornado11 30/09/13, 10:36 pm

If the high school coach really cares and has done his/her 'homework' then he/she will have a very good idea of who is coming through the system from the respective middle school teams....he/she will also take the time to go and watch prospective varsity players with their club teams....some girls who recently played high level club soccer may well have decided that, with their academic load and other commitments, club soccer is no longer for them...

I doubt that many high school coaches who actually do care will not have a really good idea of who can play the game...

A coach I know has a pretty good idea of who will be on the varsity well before the season starts...these girls do not 'try out'...either because they were already on varsity or the coach is very familiar with their capabilities...and try outs are restricted to the other girls in the off chance that a surprise or two shows up...

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Post by Packrabbit 01/10/13, 12:05 am

jabberjaw wrote:
TNT wrote:"If you have a "fair tryout" ECNL players are significantly better than D1"
I have to call a foul on that one as with 5 ECNL teams in the watered down Dallas area ECNL pool some barely roster a team and would certainly bet on upper level D1 teams especially against some lower level ECNL from this area in the same age group. Many upper level D1 players play at their chosen level not because they can't make the all great ECNL, but because the parents refuse to make the extra expenditures. Just look at some of the ECNL records and tell me how great they are.
facts r facts. Don't hate on ken shiftable, he is speaking the truth.. But your point is valid and also confirms what kenshidave is saying about ecnl and d1 players..
Really?!-- unless there's an age group I've missed, I haven't seen a d1 team that will consistently beat an ECNL team. Sure, anything is possible on any given weekend, and there may be a struggling team here and there, but I wouldn't go betting your retirement on "call a foul" D1 vs ECNL theory.  

Watered down or not, NTX is beating the hell out of STX encl who doesn't have a "watered down" problem there.

I'm not sure if ECNL is the end-all, be-all; its correct that some worthy players don't participate in the league, the league definitely has its share of warts and politics,  but the players that are in the league are pretty darn good.

Expenditures, spenditures- it's all expensive. From what I understand, the costs are comparable to premier league.

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Post by futbollove 01/10/13, 07:37 am

Packrabbit wrote:
jabberjaw wrote:
TNT wrote:"If you have a "fair tryout" ECNL players are significantly better than D1"
I have to call a foul on that one as with 5 ECNL teams in the watered down Dallas area ECNL pool some barely roster a team and would certainly bet on upper level D1 teams especially against some lower level ECNL from this area in the same age group. Many upper level D1 players play at their chosen level not because they can't make the all great ECNL, but because the parents refuse to make the extra expenditures. Just look at some of the ECNL records and tell me how great they are.
facts r facts. Don't hate on ken shiftable, he is speaking the truth.. But your point is valid and also confirms what kenshidave is saying about ecnl and d1 players..
Really?!-- unless there's an age group I've missed, I haven't seen a d1 team that will consistently beat an ECNL team.
LP 98 team from a year ago could have won consistently, and a couple of 99 D1 teams could probably win consistently.
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Post by Shooter 14/11/13, 05:44 pm

I don't typically feel a need to ride to Kenshi's defense, but GENERALLY SPEAKING, ECNL teams AS A WHOLE will out-play LH D1 teams consistently. As a team plays more in ECNL, they will get even better (the higher level of competition in ECNL contributes to accelerated development - - and I believe a higher injury rate). INDIVIDUALLY, there are players in LH D1 that are superior to the typical ECNL rostered player, potentially far superior. To believe otherwise is extremely small-minded, in my opinion. These individual players will outdoubtedly stand out in a HS tryout. Skills are skills. Several years ago, Plano West had an ex-LH D1 player that had not played in a year (injured), but was still a starting defender playing 100% time on the back line of their 2011 state championship team. She was a stud. At many powerhouse schools, if you are playing rec, JV is your best bet, but it is likely to be a slim one. In reference to TNT's comment about looking at ECNL records as a sign of quality, this is a bad indicator because the level of competition is MUCH higher. ECNL attracts most of the the best organizations and teams in the country. Based on my experience, the upper 80% of all ECNL teams in any age group would easily dominate LH D1 teams.

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Post by nutmeg 14/11/13, 09:31 pm

I think we are burying the question being asked here with the ECNL vs the World argument...that will seemingly never die. The reality is that there are girls playing PL that are equal or better than some of the bench fodder on ECNL teams, just as there are girls playing in the bottom half of D1 that are better than some bench fodder on PL rosters, etc...

To answer the original question...as a HS coach I can promise you that there is a tryout process (begins on 12/2 this year) at almost every public high school in the area. Now, as was previously posted, most years I can pretty muchly tell you who is going to be on my varsity roster by the time the calendar hits October. There may be a couple of spots in question, but by October I not only know who I have back from the past year, but also have a pretty good idea of who my new players are. By the time tryouts roll around, I'm primarily looking for upgrades to the JV roster, and the occasional mana from heaven in the form of an unknown high-skill girl that had secretly been walking our hallways, or maybe the out-of-state move-in that did not sign up for the soccer offseason class. Tryouts will often times bring out talent to strengthen depth, but rarely provides more than that intitially.

As far as an advantage being given to ECNL, PL, or D1 players...uh, DUH. But, any coach worth his salt also understands that you have to tread lightly when dealing with these (especially ECNL) players. I am not as fortunate as schools such as Plano West or McKinney Boyd that some years are rostering 14-16 ECNL players on my roster, and thereby having a JV full of D1 talent. I, like a number of coaches, get a much smaller handful of these top tier players. While having them is great, as a HS coach, it's a double-edged sword. I understand that, if there is a conflict, ECNL will typically win out (see weeks 5 and 8 of my district results last Winter). I've been involved on the club side of things long enough to understand why that is how it should be. I also know that a D2 player that rolls an ankle is much more apt to want to tape it up and get back out there, while an ECNL player (or more to the point, the ECNL parent) is going to be much more likely to want to cautiously protect that ankle in lieu of missing playing time at an upcoming ECNL showcase. My point is, a smart HS coach is never going to turn away a quality player such as those in ECNL and PL, but will also use whatever resources available to keep those quality non-ECNL/PL/D1 players in the program as well, because you never know when they will be the only players you can count on no matter what.
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Post by tornado11 15/11/13, 08:16 am

A well thought out, reasoned response, so thanks for that. On the private school level (whose season starts much earlier, like early this week) I believe most of the coaches are more than willing to 'work with' the club coaches during the period early Nov to school getting back about Jan 7th. This is when the private schools 'district' games start and the expectation is that the club coaches will now 'work' with the H.S. coaches....unfortunately not always the case. Therein lies the dilemma for both the girls and their respective coaches.

I couple of years ago Plano West ran into this 'conflict' and, as most of the girls who were going on to play in college had already made their commitments they (as a group) decided to play in West's play-off game rather than for their respective club teams.

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Post by Firebird 15/11/13, 09:21 am

Must be nice to have those type of problems with an abundance of ECNL, LH D1-3, Plano and Arlington players…
DD’s team will have 2 ECNL players (1JR, 1FR), 3 LH players (none from D1), 3-4 Plano players and the rest from our local recreational soccer association. Could also be a few athletes that do not play any type of organized soccer.
Smile

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Post by nutmeg 15/11/13, 10:59 am

Firebird, sounds a lot like my squad.
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Post by JeffM 15/11/13, 01:17 pm

Firebird wrote:Must be nice to have those type of problems with an abundance of ECNL, LH D1-3, Plano and Arlington players…
DD’s team will have 2 ECNL players (1JR, 1FR), 3 LH players (none from D1), 3-4 Plano players and the rest from our local recreational soccer association. Could also be a few athletes that do not play any type of organized soccer.
Smile
And the bigger the difference in skill/experience, the tougher it can be to get everyone on the same page.

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Post by Flatback4 18/11/13, 11:02 am

So where do National League (16 teams across the U.S.) players fall into the ranking system?

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Post by Shotshagger 19/11/13, 10:17 pm

momreccos wrote:I was reading previous posts in regards to how Plano fills its roster and I have heard stories...so how do other High Schools compare?  Do high school coaches focus on talent (ECNL,LH D1, D2, D3, PPL), Legacy, "who you know" or popularity?  And does this vary from a 5A to a 4A school?  

My kid's HS coach had his mind made up before tryouts ever started. He seemed convinced that older players are better. But some younger players (not all that deserved to, though) did eventually get the chance to prove themselves, and won time on varsity.

While age wasn't the best indicator of where a kid might end up in playing time, the league they played in was pretty much spot on in predicting how they'd contribute in HS.
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Post by Shotshagger 19/11/13, 10:22 pm

futbollove wrote:
Packrabbit wrote:
jabberjaw wrote:
TNT wrote:"If you have a "fair tryout" ECNL players are significantly better than D1"
I have to call a foul on that one as with 5 ECNL teams in the watered down Dallas area ECNL pool some barely roster a team and would certainly bet on upper level D1 teams especially against some lower level ECNL from this area in the same age group. Many upper level D1 players play at their chosen level not because they can't make the all great ECNL, but because the parents refuse to make the extra expenditures. Just look at some of the ECNL records and tell me how great they are.
facts r facts. Don't hate on ken shiftable, he is speaking the truth.. But your point is valid and also confirms what kenshidave is saying about ecnl and d1 players..
Really?!-- unless there's an age group I've missed, I haven't seen a d1 team that will consistently beat an ECNL team.
LP 98 team from a year ago could have won consistently, and a couple of 99 D1 teams could probably win consistently.
Maybe.  In the spring they got knocked out of the DIGC by a LHGCL team…which in turn got knocked out by an ECNL team. At least for the 98s, D1 hasn't been comparable with ECNL for a while now.
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Post by Pitchmon 19/11/13, 11:54 pm

Kenshi is correct and the statement that high school coaches know way ahead of time did I just agree with you lol?They practice since August. Ecnl will play top di programs, di will play back up or div 1aa, DII players play DII ncaa or top naia programs. If you can afford dIII without athletic scholarships but high academic then anyone can play but don't be surprised to see superstars there for various reasons of location, alumni parents or just want to be student athlete. Hs doesn't mean anything really except you hope and pray they have a great sister experience. Mine did and now enjoys same on college pitch, but don't sweat hs. Yeah it's great to win but there is more in club and college.


Last edited by Pitchmon on 19/11/13, 11:57 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Spelling)
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Post by tornado11 20/11/13, 05:17 am

Shotshagger wrote:
momreccos wrote:I was reading previous posts in regards to how Plano fills its roster and I have heard stories...so how do other High Schools compare?  Do high school coaches focus on talent (ECNL,LH D1, D2, D3, PPL), Legacy, "who you know" or popularity?  And does this vary from a 5A to a 4A school?  

My kid's HS coach had his mind made up before tryouts ever started.  He seemed convinced that older players are better.  But some younger players (not all that deserved to, though) did eventually get the chance to prove themselves, and won time on varsity.  

While age wasn't the best indicator of where a kid might end up in playing time, the league they played in was pretty much spot on in predicting how they'd contribute in HS.
The best players should play regardless of grade or size. ESD opened their season Monday by beating Parish 3-0 and started 4 freshmen, 4 sophomores, 2 jrs, 1 sr. Of their starting line-up 5 girls are ECNL and the other six LH D1.

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