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Post by SocDad on 29/07/14, 11:29 am

10sDad wrote:so...if we were to put in the rule that the ball has to be on the ground when it passes the half line (like futsal).....do you think that would have changed a lot of the results from last weekend?

I was thinking that exact same thing....you just beat me to the punch!

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Post by SocDad on 29/07/14, 11:30 am

Borussia wrote:Actually FIFA rules, which City Futsal now follows, allows for the ball to be chunked beyond midcourt... Sigh, eh

So maybe they need to change from Futsal to Bootsal?
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Post by Guest on 29/07/14, 11:34 am

It was better for development when the rule was the ball had to at least touch the court before crossing midcourt.

Required more distribution wide, and lead to playing from the back... What a concept. Haha

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Post by PurplePonyPower on 29/07/14, 11:41 am

Smaller sided games.

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Post by allhatnocattle on 29/07/14, 11:45 am

onlythetruth wrote:Oh, please.

The object of soccer is . . . to win games.

You win games by . . . scoring goals.

So don't give me this nonsense about the importance of "possession" soccer, or defending for that matter - the team that scores more, wins more.

Teams that win, advance.  Kids that win, are seen by scouts.

Heck, look at LH qualifying last weekened.  They rewarded goals scored in the tie-breaker up to 8.  All of the D1 qualifiers were the highest scoring teams.

Best way to score goals?  It starts with speed and athleticism.  Get some fast, athletic kids and get them the ball.  With enough fast kids, you don't really have to rely on your defense or goalkeeper.

A team kicking the ball from side-to-side (or especially backwards), isn't kicking it in the direction that matters - into the goal!

As a counter-argument, I'd say to go look at the team which just won D3 in the '01 Group. They scored 54 goals and gave up only 8. They play possession soccer. They move the ball from side-to-side and backwards.
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Post by Guest on 29/07/14, 12:00 pm

allhatnocattle wrote:
onlythetruth wrote:Oh, please.

The object of soccer is . . . to win games.

You win games by . . . scoring goals.

So don't give me this nonsense about the importance of "possession" soccer, or defending for that matter - the team that scores more, wins more.

Teams that win, advance.  Kids that win, are seen by scouts.

Heck, look at LH qualifying last weekened.  They rewarded goals scored in the tie-breaker up to 8.  All of the D1 qualifiers were the highest scoring teams.

Best way to score goals?  It starts with speed and athleticism.  Get some fast, athletic kids and get them the ball.  With enough fast kids, you don't really have to rely on your defense or goalkeeper.

A team kicking the ball from side-to-side (or especially backwards), isn't kicking it in the direction that matters - into the goal!

As a counter-argument, I'd say to go look at the team which just won D3 in the '01 Group.  They scored 54 goals and gave up only 8.  They play possession soccer.  They move the ball from side-to-side and backwards.

...and by the way, for 10sDad's sake... this team is prime example to make his point that possession can be taught and both players and a team can improve over time relative to the rest of the "boot it far" teams in NTX, but it also makes MY case regarding athleticism and ECNL...

The team in question has been together under the same coach going all the way back to at least U10, if not farther. This coach teaches and preaches possession soccer. This team played in D3 from U11-U13. They took their lumps at U10-U11, but the coach stuck to his guns, and was able to get his players and parents to buy in and stay the course. This team started to turn the corner, and some heads, at U12, and as stated, won D3 handily at U13, and wouldn't be surprised if they are challenging to win D2 at U14. This team plays some of the best possession soccer in the '01 age group, and on any given day, they can give just about all of the current D1 teams a run for their money.

The exceptions would be Kicks SC '01, and the 5 ECNL teams. Why??? Because Sting North Blue just doesn't have the top end athletes to match up with these teams, and even their solid possession game is not enough to overcome the difference in athleticism, underscored by the fact that Sting North Blue only had 1 player from their U13 roster, make an ECNL roster at U14.

There is merit to the argument that as time goes on, the playing field will level out somewhat with regards to skill/possession vs. athleticism/bootball, but that only carries so far, and at the top level (ECNL, Premier League/National League, NCAA D1, and beyond...) athleticism is the lowest common denominator amongst all of those players.

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Post by Guest on 29/07/14, 12:14 pm

So what you are saying is a team can play great possession soccer, develop the way all on here would say is best, but yet as individuals the players don't make the top teams because of lack of athletic ability?

That is what I thought you were saying all along and I think you are right. You have to be fast and skilled to make top teams.

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Post by Guest on 29/07/14, 12:18 pm

Unicorns wrote:So what you are saying is a team can play great possession soccer, develop the way all on here would say is best, but yet as individuals the players don't make the top teams because of lack of athletic ability?  

That is what I thought you were saying all along and I think you are right.  You have to be fast and skilled to make top teams.

At least someone on this board scored pretty high on their verbal SAT's...  Very Happy 

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Post by dreadpirateroberts on 29/07/14, 12:22 pm

It's not that the posession style isn't effective, more so that in the win now era, the top talent girls on those teams get poached by teams playing bootball and winning. Likely beacuse the parents feel pressure to have their daughter on a "top team".
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Post by SocDad on 29/07/14, 12:23 pm

bwgophers wrote:
Unicorns wrote:So what you are saying is a team can play great possession soccer, develop the way all on here would say is best, but yet as individuals the players don't make the top teams because of lack of athletic ability?  

That is what I thought you were saying all along and I think you are right.  You have to be fast and skilled to make top teams.

At least someone on this board scored pretty high on their verbal SAT's...  Very Happy 

If a Foward is leaving thier end of the Pitch at 10 miles an hour and a defender is leaving thier end at 15 miles and hour....how long will it take for a collission to happen at the midfiled line?  affraid
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Post by PurplePonyPower on 29/07/14, 12:25 pm

dreadpirateroberts wrote:It's not that the posession style isn't effective, more so that in the win now era, the top talent girls on those teams get poached by teams playing bootball and winning.  Likely beacuse the parents feel pressure to have their daughter on a "top team".
So name the top teams playing bootball?

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Post by dreadpirateroberts on 29/07/14, 12:28 pm

I make a point not to call out specific teams or players. I feel it serves no good.
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Post by TatonkaBurger on 29/07/14, 12:31 pm

SocDad wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
Unicorns wrote:So what you are saying is a team can play great possession soccer, develop the way all on here would say is best, but yet as individuals the players don't make the top teams because of lack of athletic ability?  

That is what I thought you were saying all along and I think you are right.  You have to be fast and skilled to make top teams.

At least someone on this board scored pretty high on their verbal SAT's...  Very Happy 

If a Foward is leaving thier end of the Pitch at 10 miles an hour and a defender is leaving thier end at 15 miles and hour....how long will it take for a collission to happen at the midfiled line?  affraid

Really?  This is NTX kickball and not possession style play.  There's no way the defender is running faster than the forward. The fastest player on the team is always a forward so when the ball is booted 30 yards down the field the forward can go chase it.
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Post by Guest on 29/07/14, 12:32 pm

SocDad wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
Unicorns wrote:So what you are saying is a team can play great possession soccer, develop the way all on here would say is best, but yet as individuals the players don't make the top teams because of lack of athletic ability?  

That is what I thought you were saying all along and I think you are right.  You have to be fast and skilled to make top teams.

At least someone on this board scored pretty high on their verbal SAT's...  Very Happy 

If a Foward is leaving thier end of the Pitch at 10 miles an hour and a defender is leaving thier end at 15 miles and hour....how long will it take for a collission to happen at the midfiled line?  affraid

The correct answer is "No. The NTX CR will not give a yellow card on the play."

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Post by SocDad on 29/07/14, 12:38 pm

bwgophers wrote:
SocDad wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
Unicorns wrote:So what you are saying is a team can play great possession soccer, develop the way all on here would say is best, but yet as individuals the players don't make the top teams because of lack of athletic ability?  

That is what I thought you were saying all along and I think you are right.  You have to be fast and skilled to make top teams.

At least someone on this board scored pretty high on their verbal SAT's...  Very Happy 

If a Foward is leaving thier end of the Pitch at 10 miles an hour and a defender is leaving thier end at 15 miles and hour....how long will it take for a collission to happen at the midfiled line?  affraid

The correct answer is "No. The NTX CR will not give a yellow card on the play."

I always was told "...when in doubt...always choose B" ? Razz
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Post by soccerisfun on 29/07/14, 12:39 pm


If a Foward is leaving thier end of the Pitch at 10 miles an hour and a defender is leaving thier end at 15 miles and hour....how long will it take for a collission to happen at the midfiled line?  affraid

Never -

It's a trick question.


If the forward is leaving their end of the pitch, they are at the center line.

If the defender is leaving their end, they are also at the center line.

Both players are at the center line - running away from each other.

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Post by Soccer Po Boy on 29/07/14, 12:40 pm

PurplePonyPower wrote:
dreadpirateroberts wrote:It's not that the posession style isn't effective, more so that in the win now era, the top talent girls on those teams get poached by teams playing bootball and winning.  Likely beacuse the parents feel pressure to have their daughter on a "top team".
So name the top teams playing bootball?

RASE
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Post by Guest on 29/07/14, 12:49 pm

Soccer Po Boy wrote:
PurplePonyPower wrote:
dreadpirateroberts wrote:It's not that the posession style isn't effective, more so that in the win now era, the top talent girls on those teams get poached by teams playing bootball and winning.  Likely beacuse the parents feel pressure to have their daughter on a "top team".
So name the top teams playing bootball?

RASE

OK, that was a meatball served up right across the plate... lol  affraid   cheers 

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Post by 10sDad on 29/07/14, 12:58 pm

bwgophers wrote:
allhatnocattle wrote:
onlythetruth wrote:Oh, please.

The object of soccer is . . . to win games.

You win games by . . . scoring goals.

So don't give me this nonsense about the importance of "possession" soccer, or defending for that matter - the team that scores more, wins more.

Teams that win, advance.  Kids that win, are seen by scouts.

Heck, look at LH qualifying last weekened.  They rewarded goals scored in the tie-breaker up to 8.  All of the D1 qualifiers were the highest scoring teams.

Best way to score goals?  It starts with speed and athleticism.  Get some fast, athletic kids and get them the ball.  With enough fast kids, you don't really have to rely on your defense or goalkeeper.

A team kicking the ball from side-to-side (or especially backwards), isn't kicking it in the direction that matters - into the goal!

As a counter-argument, I'd say to go look at the team which just won D3 in the '01 Group.  They scored 54 goals and gave up only 8.  They play possession soccer.  They move the ball from side-to-side and backwards.

...and by the way, for 10sDad's sake...  this team is prime example to make his point that possession can be taught and both players and a team can improve over time relative to the rest of the "boot it far" teams in NTX, but it also makes MY case regarding athleticism and ECNL...

The team in question has been together under the same coach going all the way back to at least U10, if not farther.  This coach teaches and preaches possession soccer.  This team played in D3 from U11-U13.  They took their lumps at U10-U11, but the coach stuck to his guns, and was able to get his players and parents to buy in and stay the course.  This team started to turn the corner, and some heads, at U12, and as stated, won D3 handily at U13, and wouldn't be surprised if they are challenging to win D2 at U14.  This team plays some of the best possession soccer in the '01 age group, and on any given day, they can give just about all of the current D1 teams a run for their money.

The exceptions would be Kicks SC '01, and the 5 ECNL teams.  Why???  Because Sting North Blue just doesn't have the top end athletes to match up with these teams, and even their solid possession game is not enough to overcome the difference in athleticism, underscored by the fact that Sting North Blue only had 1 player from their U13 roster, make an ECNL roster at U14.

There is merit to the argument that as time goes on, the playing field will level out somewhat with regards to skill/possession vs. athleticism/bootball, but that only carries so far, and at the top level (ECNL, Premier League/National League, NCAA D1, and beyond...) athleticism is the lowest common denominator amongst all of those players.
Now....imagine that Sting North Blue had the spectacular athletes as well, and they stayed together and played possession soccer like they do....they would be virtually unstoppable, wouldn't they?

So, the spectacular athletes with size/speed go the bootball route, while the less athletic players go the possession route in order to (eventually) counter the bootball. Meaning that ultimately, none of them are good enough to go to the next level...and NTX wins youth championships. The system is broken.
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Post by Guest on 29/07/14, 12:59 pm

[quote="Soccer Po Boy"][quote="PurplePonyPower"][quote="dreadpirateroberts"]It's not that the posession style isn't effective, more so that in the win now era, the top talent girls on those teams get poached by teams playing bootball and winning.  Likely beacuse the parents feel pressure to have their daughter on a "top team".[/quote]
So name the top teams playing bootball?[/quote]

RASE[/quote]




Stuff just got real!!!

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Post by slrsoccer on 29/07/14, 01:20 pm

These conversations are pure entertainment and are guaranteed to pop up here at least a couple times a year.

Athleticism obviously has no place in soccer. If you want proof, look at the semi finalists in this years world cup...none of them were athletic at all.

Carry on.

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Post by Soccerbgood on 29/07/14, 01:27 pm

What if your team had athletes who played possession soccer

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Post by allhatnocattle on 29/07/14, 01:33 pm

Soccerbgood wrote:What if your team had athletes who played possession soccer

Decision-making, vision, and skill are the most important components of good possession soccer. Just my opinion, but athleticism isn't any more important than those 3 I mentioned.
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Post by weatherbug on 29/07/14, 01:35 pm

10sDad wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
allhatnocattle wrote:
onlythetruth wrote:Oh, please.

The object of soccer is . . . to win games.

You win games by . . . scoring goals.

So don't give me this nonsense about the importance of "possession" soccer, or defending for that matter - the team that scores more, wins more.

Teams that win, advance.  Kids that win, are seen by scouts.

Heck, look at LH qualifying last weekened.  They rewarded goals scored in the tie-breaker up to 8.  All of the D1 qualifiers were the highest scoring teams.

Best way to score goals?  It starts with speed and athleticism.  Get some fast, athletic kids and get them the ball.  With enough fast kids, you don't really have to rely on your defense or goalkeeper.

A team kicking the ball from side-to-side (or especially backwards), isn't kicking it in the direction that matters - into the goal!

As a counter-argument, I'd say to go look at the team which just won D3 in the '01 Group.  They scored 54 goals and gave up only 8.  They play possession soccer.  They move the ball from side-to-side and backwards.

...and by the way, for 10sDad's sake...  this team is prime example to make his point that possession can be taught and both players and a team can improve over time relative to the rest of the "boot it far" teams in NTX, but it also makes MY case regarding athleticism and ECNL...

The team in question has been together under the same coach going all the way back to at least U10, if not farther.  This coach teaches and preaches possession soccer.  This team played in D3 from U11-U13.  They took their lumps at U10-U11, but the coach stuck to his guns, and was able to get his players and parents to buy in and stay the course.  This team started to turn the corner, and some heads, at U12, and as stated, won D3 handily at U13, and wouldn't be surprised if they are challenging to win D2 at U14.  This team plays some of the best possession soccer in the '01 age group, and on any given day, they can give just about all of the current D1 teams a run for their money.

The exceptions would be Kicks SC '01, and the 5 ECNL teams.  Why???  Because Sting North Blue just doesn't have the top end athletes to match up with these teams, and even their solid possession game is not enough to overcome the difference in athleticism, underscored by the fact that Sting North Blue only had 1 player from their U13 roster, make an ECNL roster at U14.

There is merit to the argument that as time goes on, the playing field will level out somewhat with regards to skill/possession vs. athleticism/bootball, but that only carries so far, and at the top level (ECNL, Premier League/National League, NCAA D1, and beyond...) athleticism is the lowest common denominator amongst all of those players.
Now....imagine that Sting North Blue had the spectacular athletes as well, and they stayed together and played possession soccer like they do....they would be virtually unstoppable, wouldn't they?

So, the spectacular athletes with size/speed go the bootball route, while the less athletic players go the possession route in order to (eventually) counter the bootball.  Meaning that ultimately, none of them are good enough to go to the next level...and NTX wins youth championships.  The system is broken.

Sting North 01 parent here... I'd just like to point out that we had exactly one girl try out for ECNL.  A lot of us made the choice to stay with Coach Reagan Angell because we believe in his philosophy and methods.  We feel the girls who want to make the transition to ECNL in 9th or even 10th grade can still get the benefit of ECNL later, but we are happy where we are this year.  Individually girls are out doing some things to get competition at the highest levels- Sting's ETA program, ODP etc.  We had 2 girls make the 01 ODP Regional pool and one make Honorable Mention for the Regional Pool in the 00s. (NTX only had 1 girl make the 00 pool and placed 7 on the Honorable Mention list).  Puberty has been kind to a few of the girls. Wink  I feel like there will be a place for them to compete at the highest levels when they are ready to make the move and they will be Very technically sound when they do.  We have girls who were always athletic enough to play D1.  We just like what we have going on where we are.


Last edited by weatherbug on 29/07/14, 01:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Guest on 29/07/14, 01:39 pm

See, that is what it takes.

BUY IN!! Set the stage early, practice what you preach and it will pay off.

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Post by Guest on 29/07/14, 01:41 pm

weatherbug wrote:
10sDad wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
allhatnocattle wrote:
onlythetruth wrote:Oh, please.

The object of soccer is . . . to win games.

You win games by . . . scoring goals.

So don't give me this nonsense about the importance of "possession" soccer, or defending for that matter - the team that scores more, wins more.

Teams that win, advance.  Kids that win, are seen by scouts.

Heck, look at LH qualifying last weekened.  They rewarded goals scored in the tie-breaker up to 8.  All of the D1 qualifiers were the highest scoring teams.

Best way to score goals?  It starts with speed and athleticism.  Get some fast, athletic kids and get them the ball.  With enough fast kids, you don't really have to rely on your defense or goalkeeper.

A team kicking the ball from side-to-side (or especially backwards), isn't kicking it in the direction that matters - into the goal!

As a counter-argument, I'd say to go look at the team which just won D3 in the '01 Group.  They scored 54 goals and gave up only 8.  They play possession soccer.  They move the ball from side-to-side and backwards.

...and by the way, for 10sDad's sake...  this team is prime example to make his point that possession can be taught and both players and a team can improve over time relative to the rest of the "boot it far" teams in NTX, but it also makes MY case regarding athleticism and ECNL...

The team in question has been together under the same coach going all the way back to at least U10, if not farther.  This coach teaches and preaches possession soccer.  This team played in D3 from U11-U13.  They took their lumps at U10-U11, but the coach stuck to his guns, and was able to get his players and parents to buy in and stay the course.  This team started to turn the corner, and some heads, at U12, and as stated, won D3 handily at U13, and wouldn't be surprised if they are challenging to win D2 at U14.  This team plays some of the best possession soccer in the '01 age group, and on any given day, they can give just about all of the current D1 teams a run for their money.

The exceptions would be Kicks SC '01, and the 5 ECNL teams.  Why???  Because Sting North Blue just doesn't have the top end athletes to match up with these teams, and even their solid possession game is not enough to overcome the difference in athleticism, underscored by the fact that Sting North Blue only had 1 player from their U13 roster, make an ECNL roster at U14.

There is merit to the argument that as time goes on, the playing field will level out somewhat with regards to skill/possession vs. athleticism/bootball, but that only carries so far, and at the top level (ECNL, Premier League/National League, NCAA D1, and beyond...) athleticism is the lowest common denominator amongst all of those players.
Now....imagine that Sting North Blue had the spectacular athletes as well, and they stayed together and played possession soccer like they do....they would be virtually unstoppable, wouldn't they?

So, the spectacular athletes with size/speed go the bootball route, while the less athletic players go the possession route in order to (eventually) counter the bootball.  Meaning that ultimately, none of them are good enough to go to the next level...and NTX wins youth championships.  The system is broken.

Sting North 01 parent here... I'd just like to point out that we had exactly one girl try out for ECNL.  A lot of us made the choice to stay with Coach Reagan Angell because we believe in his philosophy and methods.  We feel the girls who want to make the transition to ECNL in 9th or even 10th grade can still get the benefit of ECNL later, but we are happy where we are this year.  Individually girls are out doing some things to get competition at the highest levels- Sting's ETA program, ODP etc.  We had 2 girls make the 01 ODP Regional pool and one make Honorable Mention for the Regional Pool in the 00s. (NTX only had 1 girl make the 00 pool and placed 7 on the Honorable Mention list).  Puberty has been kind to a few of the girls. Wink  I feel like there will be a place for them to compete at the highest levels when they are ready to make the move and they will be Very technically sound when they do.  We have girls who were always athletic enough to play D1.  We just like what we have going on where we are.

 cheers cheers cheers 

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