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Post by 10sDad on 05/08/14, 02:53 pm

After posting on various boards over the years (DMN, Turfmonster, here, etc.), I have decided that the forum community has become too toxic for my liking, so I am done with my forum career.

It's also become obvious that although my 04dd is a fine player and my older kids were fine players (one making national academy and college level), that because this particular one's team did not make LH on the first try, anything I post is automatically dismissed as unknowledgeable due to the fact that my dd doesn't play D1. Anything I post about development of youth players will be met with: "your dd plays PPL - you have no idea what you are talking about". Turfmonster was a bit over the top and quite competitive sometimes, but when they say that the girls soccer is extremely catty - I guess they are right. This board is way worse.

I hope that (most of) my posts were informative and/or thought provoking and I sincerely hope that maybe I was able to quell the fears of some first-time soccer parents with my honest advice gleaned from my years of experience in select soccer.

I know my dd - she loves soccer - so she will be around for years to come if she wants to. And I will be there supporting her every step of the way. I may be standing next to you at the fields, or my dd may end up being a teammate of your dd...you never know. Those of you who know me are welcome to solicit my advice through the traditional methods - and as you already know, I will talk your ear off if you open that door.

I think the thing that pushed me over the brink and made me realize that these boards really don't have any redeeming value whatsoever is when I get called a racist for espousing the merits of possession soccer vs. teaching bootball at U-11. (and my family is not even white!) It just made me realize in stunning detail that negativity has taken over this thing. I went back and re-read threads from yesterday and was literally embarrassed that I let myself get drawn into exchanging petty attacks with negative people. I guess Mark Twain was right about arguing with some people. I got beat with experience. By allowing myself to stoop to that level, I am becoming part of the problem that I am ultimately disgusted with...by inviting that type of behavior with my responses.

So, I am sure this will incite a few more insults to be flung my way, as well as the expected sour grapes/crybaby/etc. that unfortuately have become the norm on this forum...so go ahead and get it out of your system...it will only prove my point. And before you even think it, I was not talked to by anyone from my dd's team/club/etc.

Best of luck to ALL of your dd's as they advance through the ranks of select soccer. I mean that.

Peace to all.

Sincerely,
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Post by Guest on 05/08/14, 03:19 pm

I for one will be sorry to see you go. I have enjoyed your posts over the years and have found them to be with merit and you a straight shooter. The latter a rarity on this forum. Best wishes to you and your DD.

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Post by SickofStupidity on 05/08/14, 04:02 pm

Don't leave!  You are welcome here even if your dd does play in PPL!   Shocked 

Besides, the boards had gotten way too quiet, and you guys kept it lively yesterday!


Seriously, don't let people run you off - always appreciate your commentary.


But if you do leave, you can always come back tomorrow under a new alias and start all over again!

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Post by Tiki-taka on 05/08/14, 04:17 pm

You'll be back, betcha bottom dollar.

I understand the whole D1 comment, but I think that attitude wears out over the years.

Says a lot about our society, instead of the clear exchange of ideas or thoughts on topics, it seems to be "attack first, then think". Or people are just acting like contrarians to get a rise out of people. But you are doing the right thing, get away for awhile, take a vacation from the Forum Crazy, then come back as 10sdadredux and use that excellent EQ (I'm sure you have) and only engage when it's not in the mud, and it is contributing to good positive discussion, then your experience will be so much better.

Now hit the road jack, don't cha come back no more, no more!
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Post by Sable35 on 05/08/14, 05:10 pm

I hear ya. I enjoy looking through this forum because there is a lot of great information. But have never felt the need to join the "conversations" for the very reasons you just outlined. I made the mistake of doing so a few days ago when I commented about how people talk as if they forget these are kids we are talking about. A guy commented that his wife said I was lame. LOL. Learned my lesson!!

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Post by Guest on 05/08/14, 05:48 pm

SickofSilliness wrote:Don't leave!  You are welcome here even if your dd does play in PPL!   Shocked 

Besides, the boards had gotten way too quiet, and you guys kept it lively yesterday!


Seriously, don't let people run you off - always appreciate your commentary.


But if you do leave, you can always come back tomorrow under a new alias and start all over again!

i agree! don't let them get you down, you haven't even gotten a cartoon attacking you yet! lol

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Post by Guest on 05/08/14, 09:59 pm

There are several people on here, myself included, who helped to dig your forum grave. However, you held the biggest shovel and have the most dirt on your hands by far. Maybe you realize that, maybe you don't. Maybe you will learn from that, maybe you won't.

Whether or not you ever venture back on this board in the future, I personally hold no ill will towards you and wish you and your DD nothing but the best for the future, and hope that wherever her youth soccer experience takes her, that 20 years from now, she looks back on it with fond memories, especially those of having her Dad there every step of the way.

BW

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Post by Guest on 06/08/14, 08:16 am

For some reason I keep hearing Boyz II Men playing me head... its so haaaaard to say gudbye yo yesterdaaayyyyy

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Post by TatonkaBurger on 06/08/14, 08:24 am

I'm hoping we all get to welcome 10sDad2.0 to the forum in a month or two.
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Post by SocDad on 06/08/14, 08:33 am

TatonkaBurger wrote:I'm hoping we all get to welcome 10sDad2.0 to the forum in a month or two.

10sDad Grand Re-Opening...under new Management  Very Happy
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Post by Peak_Performance_Dad on 06/08/14, 09:38 am

bwgophers wrote:There are several people on here, myself included, who helped to dig your forum grave.  However, you held the biggest shovel and have the most dirt on your hands by far.  Maybe you realize that, maybe you don't.  Maybe you will learn from that, maybe you won't.

Whether or not you ever venture back on this board in the future, I personally hold no ill will towards you and wish you and your DD nothing but the best for the future, and hope that wherever her youth soccer experience takes her, that 20 years from now, she looks back on it with fond memories, especially those of having her Dad there every step of the way.

BW

Well said, BW.  I agree with you on every point 100%.  Something tells me 10sDad will be back after they rack up some wins in PPL and prior to a big tourney - hopefully he will give us a heads up on how his DD and her team are coming to take us all down . . . seriously, I sincerely wish the best for him and his DD.  He appears to be a big proponent of skill development and possession-style soccer, which I know I am and hope most of us are.  Somehow, my DDs coach has developed her and her team (she has been with him for 3 years) to play this way and magically we qualified for LH.  

The stark reality is most successful teams (top 5-10), even at this age, play a strong possession style game of soccer, with some occasional long ball clears.  Once you move out of the top 10 or so, it does become more of a mixed bag.  Teams that aren't as athletic and skilled have to rely more heavily on the 'boot ball' to redirect the ball defensively and create opportunities to score.  Defensively well coached teams should be able to adjust to this style of play, as long as their defenders are athletic enough and their mids/forwards skilled enough to control possession.
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Post by Guest on 06/08/14, 09:49 am

"The stark reality is most successful teams (top 5-10), even at this age, play a strong possession style game of soccer, with some occasional long ball clears."

frankly at this age that is crap. top teams usually have a strong mix of good soccer players and can pass a couple of times before losing the ball. To call 04 soccer possession soccer is utterly ridiculous...

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Post by SolarPower00 on 06/08/14, 09:58 am

Setting timer now for go99 response
I'm guessing 3-5 minutes
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Post by Peak_Performance_Dad on 06/08/14, 10:17 am

silentparent wrote:"The stark reality is most successful teams (top 5-10), even at this age, play a strong possession style game of soccer, with some occasional long ball clears."

frankly at this age that is crap. top teams usually have a strong mix of good soccer players and can pass a couple of times before losing the ball. To call 04 soccer possession soccer is utterly ridiculous...

Respect your opinion but disagree. Obviously we are talking about 10/11 year old girls, so their play is going to look very different at this age than in 5 years. The style and approach to moving the ball (possession vs kickball) differs - of course I am talking about approach and not execution. To your point, their ability to execute in not nearly as strong now and it will improve as they get older. That being said, it has been my observation that many of the top teams (per their coaching) strive for this and are working on improving the execution. Per your statement, it appears your experience is that the top teams have "a strong mix of good soccer players and can pass a couple of times before losing the ball" is different than mine. Let's agree to disagree.

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Post by TatonkaBurger on 06/08/14, 10:28 am

Peak_Performance_Dad wrote:
silentparent wrote:"The stark reality is most successful teams (top 5-10), even at this age, play a strong possession style game of soccer, with some occasional long ball clears."

frankly at this age that is crap. top teams usually have a strong mix of good soccer players and can pass a couple of times before losing the ball. To call 04 soccer possession soccer is utterly ridiculous...

Respect your opinion but disagree.  Obviously we are talking about 10/11 year old girls, so their play is going to look very different at this age than in 5 years.  The style and approach to moving the ball (possession vs kickball) differs - of course I am talking about approach and not execution.  To your point, their ability to execute in not nearly as strong now and it will improve as they get older.  That being said, it has been my observation that many of the top teams (per their coaching) strive for this and are working on improving the execution.  Per your statement, it appears your experience is that the top teams have "a strong mix of good soccer players and can pass a couple of times before losing the ball" is different than mine.  Let's agree to disagree.


I agree with you PPD.  I think the point is that there are a good number of the top 10 teams that attempt (their approach is) possession soccer.  Once you get beyond those, it is pretty ugly bootball.  So yes that is the norm.  But there should be more of an attempt to possess it rather than just boot clearances and kick it up to the fast forwards, in my humble opinion.
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Post by Lefty on 06/08/14, 10:33 am

Peak_Performance_Dad wrote:
silentparent wrote:"The stark reality is most successful teams (top 5-10), even at this age, play a strong possession style game of soccer, with some occasional long ball clears."

frankly at this age that is crap. top teams usually have a strong mix of good soccer players and can pass a couple of times before losing the ball. To call 04 soccer possession soccer is utterly ridiculous...

Respect your opinion but disagree.  Obviously we are talking about 10/11 year old girls, so their play is going to look very different at this age than in 5 years.  The style and approach to moving the ball (possession vs kickball) differs - of course I am talking about approach and not execution.  To your point, their ability to execute in not nearly as strong now and it will improve as they get older.  That being said, it has been my observation that many of the top teams (per their coaching) strive for this and are working on improving the execution.  Per your statement, it appears your experience is that the top teams have "a strong mix of good soccer players and can pass a couple of times before losing the ball" is different than mine.  Let's agree to disagree.


Agreeing to disagree is fine, that does not change the truth.

Count the number of passes from possession in the back until a shot is taken.
Count the number of times that someone dribbles with their head down into multiple defenders.
Count the number of passes before they go long, or put the ball in the air.
Count the number of times the pass the ball any direction other than forward.

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Post by TatonkaBurger on 06/08/14, 10:38 am

Lefty wrote:
Peak_Performance_Dad wrote:
silentparent wrote:"The stark reality is most successful teams (top 5-10), even at this age, play a strong possession style game of soccer, with some occasional long ball clears."

frankly at this age that is crap. top teams usually have a strong mix of good soccer players and can pass a couple of times before losing the ball. To call 04 soccer possession soccer is utterly ridiculous...

Respect your opinion but disagree.  Obviously we are talking about 10/11 year old girls, so their play is going to look very different at this age than in 5 years.  The style and approach to moving the ball (possession vs kickball) differs - of course I am talking about approach and not execution.  To your point, their ability to execute in not nearly as strong now and it will improve as they get older.  That being said, it has been my observation that many of the top teams (per their coaching) strive for this and are working on improving the execution.  Per your statement, it appears your experience is that the top teams have "a strong mix of good soccer players and can pass a couple of times before losing the ball" is different than mine.  Let's agree to disagree.


Agreeing to disagree is fine, that does not change the truth.  

Count the number of passes from possession in the back until a shot is taken.
Count the number of times that someone dribbles with their head down into multiple defenders.
Count the number of passes before they go long, or put the ball in the air.  
Count the number of times the pass the ball any direction other than forward.

Count the number of years they have been alive.
Count the number of years they have been playing soccer.

They are still 10/11 year olds.  The point is making the attempt to play possession soccer.
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Post by Lefty on 06/08/14, 11:03 am

TatonkaBurger wrote:
Lefty wrote:
Peak_Performance_Dad wrote:
silentparent wrote:"The stark reality is most successful teams (top 5-10), even at this age, play a strong possession style game of soccer, with some occasional long ball clears."

frankly at this age that is crap. top teams usually have a strong mix of good soccer players and can pass a couple of times before losing the ball. To call 04 soccer possession soccer is utterly ridiculous...

Respect your opinion but disagree.  Obviously we are talking about 10/11 year old girls, so their play is going to look very different at this age than in 5 years.  The style and approach to moving the ball (possession vs kickball) differs - of course I am talking about approach and not execution.  To your point, their ability to execute in not nearly as strong now and it will improve as they get older.  That being said, it has been my observation that many of the top teams (per their coaching) strive for this and are working on improving the execution.  Per your statement, it appears your experience is that the top teams have "a strong mix of good soccer players and can pass a couple of times before losing the ball" is different than mine.  Let's agree to disagree.


Agreeing to disagree is fine, that does not change the truth.  

Count the number of passes from possession in the back until a shot is taken.
Count the number of times that someone dribbles with their head down into multiple defenders.
Count the number of passes before they go long, or put the ball in the air.  
Count the number of times the pass the ball any direction other than forward.

Count the number of years they have been alive.
Count the number of years they have been playing soccer.

They are still 10/11 year olds.  The point is making the attempt to play possession soccer.

What does 'attempting to play possession soccer' mean?  
How will I recognize it when watching a game?

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Post by Peak_Performance_Dad on 06/08/14, 11:40 am

Lefty wrote:
TatonkaBurger wrote:
Lefty wrote:
Peak_Performance_Dad wrote:
silentparent wrote:"The stark reality is most successful teams (top 5-10), even at this age, play a strong possession style game of soccer, with some occasional long ball clears."

frankly at this age that is crap. top teams usually have a strong mix of good soccer players and can pass a couple of times before losing the ball. To call 04 soccer possession soccer is utterly ridiculous...

Respect your opinion but disagree.  Obviously we are talking about 10/11 year old girls, so their play is going to look very different at this age than in 5 years.  The style and approach to moving the ball (possession vs kickball) differs - of course I am talking about approach and not execution.  To your point, their ability to execute in not nearly as strong now and it will improve as they get older.  That being said, it has been my observation that many of the top teams (per their coaching) strive for this and are working on improving the execution.  Per your statement, it appears your experience is that the top teams have "a strong mix of good soccer players and can pass a couple of times before losing the ball" is different than mine.  Let's agree to disagree.


Agreeing to disagree is fine, that does not change the truth.  

Count the number of passes from possession in the back until a shot is taken.
Count the number of times that someone dribbles with their head down into multiple defenders.
Count the number of passes before they go long, or put the ball in the air.  
Count the number of times the pass the ball any direction other than forward.

Count the number of years they have been alive.
Count the number of years they have been playing soccer.

They are still 10/11 year olds.  The point is making the attempt to play possession soccer.

What does 'attempting to play possession soccer' mean?  
How will I recognize it when watching a game?

Watch RASE, TX Spirit, LFS, etc. and then go watch a middle of the pack U11 team - if this doesn't open your eyes, I guess nothing will.   I guess it is kind of like salt, you know it when you experience it but its often hard to describe.  

I am a realist and don't expect any 10/11 year old girl (even the best out there) to play like a pro.  What I can tell you from experience is that correct practice and coaching can make a huge difference in the game being played (or attempted to) like the pros, but at the 10/11 year old level.  I don't think the top teams win because their defenders launch the ball to their speedy forward, who outruns the defenders to score, even though I know most top teams could do this quite well.  

Again, I have seen the top U11 teams put together strings of 5 - 10 - 15 passes together in a row to score against middle of pack teams.  Against more difficult competition, this is difficult to do, even at the professional level.  For those of us who watched the World Cup, this was quite evident.
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Post by Lefty on 06/08/14, 11:53 am

Peak_Performance_Dad wrote:
Lefty wrote:
TatonkaBurger wrote:
Lefty wrote:
Peak_Performance_Dad wrote:
silentparent wrote:"The stark reality is most successful teams (top 5-10), even at this age, play a strong possession style game of soccer, with some occasional long ball clears."

frankly at this age that is crap. top teams usually have a strong mix of good soccer players and can pass a couple of times before losing the ball. To call 04 soccer possession soccer is utterly ridiculous...

Respect your opinion but disagree.  Obviously we are talking about 10/11 year old girls, so their play is going to look very different at this age than in 5 years.  The style and approach to moving the ball (possession vs kickball) differs - of course I am talking about approach and not execution.  To your point, their ability to execute in not nearly as strong now and it will improve as they get older.  That being said, it has been my observation that many of the top teams (per their coaching) strive for this and are working on improving the execution.  Per your statement, it appears your experience is that the top teams have "a strong mix of good soccer players and can pass a couple of times before losing the ball" is different than mine.  Let's agree to disagree.


Agreeing to disagree is fine, that does not change the truth.  

Count the number of passes from possession in the back until a shot is taken.
Count the number of times that someone dribbles with their head down into multiple defenders.
Count the number of passes before they go long, or put the ball in the air.  
Count the number of times the pass the ball any direction other than forward.

Count the number of years they have been alive.
Count the number of years they have been playing soccer.

They are still 10/11 year olds.  The point is making the attempt to play possession soccer.

What does 'attempting to play possession soccer' mean?  
How will I recognize it when watching a game?

Watch RASE, TX Spirit, LFS, etc. and then go watch a middle of the pack U11 team - if this doesn't open your eyes, I guess nothing will.   I guess it is kind of like salt, you know it when you experience it but its often hard to describe.  


Nice try at equating having better athletes, being a better team and having better players with 'attempting to play posession'.  

I would expect that at U10-11 any team truly 'trying to play posession soccer' is going to lose many games against peer or even lesser competition playing kickball.  They will likely give up easy goals trying to work it out of the back, midfielders will turn it over and give the other team a short field or and direct runs at the keeper.

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Post by Seven on 06/08/14, 12:00 pm

Peak_Performance_Dad wrote:
Lefty wrote:
TatonkaBurger wrote:
Lefty wrote:
Peak_Performance_Dad wrote:
silentparent wrote:"The stark reality is most successful teams (top 5-10), even at this age, play a strong possession style game of soccer, with some occasional long ball clears."

frankly at this age that is crap. top teams usually have a strong mix of good soccer players and can pass a couple of times before losing the ball. To call 04 soccer possession soccer is utterly ridiculous...

Respect your opinion but disagree.  Obviously we are talking about 10/11 year old girls, so their play is going to look very different at this age than in 5 years.  The style and approach to moving the ball (possession vs kickball) differs - of course I am talking about approach and not execution.  To your point, their ability to execute in not nearly as strong now and it will improve as they get older.  That being said, it has been my observation that many of the top teams (per their coaching) strive for this and are working on improving the execution.  Per your statement, it appears your experience is that the top teams have "a strong mix of good soccer players and can pass a couple of times before losing the ball" is different than mine.  Let's agree to disagree.


Agreeing to disagree is fine, that does not change the truth.  

Count the number of passes from possession in the back until a shot is taken.
Count the number of times that someone dribbles with their head down into multiple defenders.
Count the number of passes before they go long, or put the ball in the air.  
Count the number of times the pass the ball any direction other than forward.

Count the number of years they have been alive.
Count the number of years they have been playing soccer.

They are still 10/11 year olds.  The point is making the attempt to play possession soccer.

What does 'attempting to play possession soccer' mean?  
How will I recognize it when watching a game?

Watch RASE, TX Spirit, LFS, etc. and then go watch a middle of the pack U11 team - if this doesn't open your eyes, I guess nothing will.   I guess it is kind of like salt, you know it when you experience it but its often hard to describe.  

I am a realist and don't expect any 10/11 year old girl (even the best out there) to play like a pro.  What I can tell you from experience is that correct practice and coaching can make a huge difference in the game being played (or attempted to) like the pros, but at the 10/11 year old level.  I don't think the top teams win because their defenders launch the ball to their speedy forward, who outruns the defenders to score, even though I know most top teams could do this quite well.  

Again, I have seen the top U11 teams put together strings of 5 - 10 - 15 passes together in a row to score against middle of pack teams.  Against more difficult competition, this is difficult to do, even at the professional level.  For those of us who watched the World Cup, this was quite evident.


I find that statment highly suspect. Maybe just maybe you have seen that once or twice  ,but it is not the norm.
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Post by Guest on 06/08/14, 12:01 pm

Lefty, are you saying that if a team is a top 5 team then they MUST not be playing or trying to play possession soccer?  If they were, as you note, they would be giving up more goals and not a top 5 team, correct? 

Is it possible the reason the top 5 teams are top 5 teams is because they have the fastest and best athletes at this age.  They may also try to play some good soccer, but that may not be the reason they win so many games.  Could it be they are just the most mature for now?

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Post by Peak_Performance_Dad on 06/08/14, 12:05 pm

Seven wrote:
Peak_Performance_Dad wrote:
Lefty wrote:
TatonkaBurger wrote:
Lefty wrote:
Peak_Performance_Dad wrote:

Respect your opinion but disagree.  Obviously we are talking about 10/11 year old girls, so their play is going to look very different at this age than in 5 years.  The style and approach to moving the ball (possession vs kickball) differs - of course I am talking about approach and not execution.  To your point, their ability to execute in not nearly as strong now and it will improve as they get older.  That being said, it has been my observation that many of the top teams (per their coaching) strive for this and are working on improving the execution.  Per your statement, it appears your experience is that the top teams have "a strong mix of good soccer players and can pass a couple of times before losing the ball" is different than mine.  Let's agree to disagree.


Agreeing to disagree is fine, that does not change the truth.  

Count the number of passes from possession in the back until a shot is taken.
Count the number of times that someone dribbles with their head down into multiple defenders.
Count the number of passes before they go long, or put the ball in the air.  
Count the number of times the pass the ball any direction other than forward.

Count the number of years they have been alive.
Count the number of years they have been playing soccer.

They are still 10/11 year olds.  The point is making the attempt to play possession soccer.

What does 'attempting to play possession soccer' mean?  
How will I recognize it when watching a game?

Watch RASE, TX Spirit, LFS, etc. and then go watch a middle of the pack U11 team - if this doesn't open your eyes, I guess nothing will.   I guess it is kind of like salt, you know it when you experience it but its often hard to describe.  

I am a realist and don't expect any 10/11 year old girl (even the best out there) to play like a pro.  What I can tell you from experience is that correct practice and coaching can make a huge difference in the game being played (or attempted to) like the pros, but at the 10/11 year old level.  I don't think the top teams win because their defenders launch the ball to their speedy forward, who outruns the defenders to score, even though I know most top teams could do this quite well.  

Again, I have seen the top U11 teams put together strings of 5 - 10 - 15 passes together in a row to score against middle of pack teams.  Against more difficult competition, this is difficult to do, even at the professional level.  For those of us who watched the World Cup, this was quite evident.


I find that statment highly suspect. Maybe just maybe you have seen that once or twice  ,but it is not the norm.

5 maybe more the norm, 10 less often, 15 against pretty weak competition. If you have been to any top level 3v3 tournament or seen a top level 3v3 team, it can and is done at the U10/11 level. Transitioning small field to large field can be done with the right coaching.

To stay on point, it has been my observation and experience that the top teams are coached and attempt to play possession soccer (to the extent it can be played at this age). If anyone else's experience is different, that is fine.
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Post by Guest on 06/08/14, 12:07 pm

"Again, I have seen the top U11 teams put together strings of 5 - 10 - 15 passes together in a row to score against middle of pack teams. "


BWAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!

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Post by $occerF@n on 06/08/14, 12:16 pm

I know there is at least 1 "Top 5" team that makes no attempt to play possession style soccer and just boots it up to a superior athlete and hopes they can make something happen...if it doesn't work out another ball will be flying through the air in a few minutes and they will try it again...but I don't watch enough soccer to say that is the norm for all top 04 teams...

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