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Elephant in the room?

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Post by FCsoccer1 on 07/10/14, 12:01 pm

I am with you soccer chuck...some people take asking questions as an attack. Which some people may be doing.....

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Post by Peak_Performance_Dad on 07/10/14, 12:16 pm

So I have a question . . . and it is a sincere question not intended to rile anyone up but one I have been wondering about since this all went down.

When Elite plays Premier (with Lake Highlands League title on the line) and assuming Premier beats Elite, will their names change going into Fall 2015? By definition, the name 'Elite' carries with it a slightly superior status than 'Premier'. How will LP handle this? Smile

In the end, everyone is right - outside parents aren't entitled to know anything. At the same time, having played against both teams and having a ton of respect for LW and what he has done with both teams, it is unrealistic to think that other clubs (and parents) aren't going to be curious as to what went down. This is especially true given how it went down (i.e. timing). Best of luck to the girls on both Elite and Premier, especially those on Elite who are sad LW is no longer their coach.
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Post by soccerjack on 07/10/14, 12:18 pm

soccer chuck wrote:Shouldn't parents have a right to know how clubs / teams / coaches operate?  

If a club continues to employ coaches that are suspended, wouldn't you want to know?  If the NTSSA has suspended your coach, wouldn't you want to know why?

If a coach walks away from a team, mid-season, wouldn't you want to know why?  They could be coaching (and leaving) your daughter in the future!

If a coach benches team players to play down CPP ringers to get the win, wouldn't you want to know which coaches are willing to do that?

If a team is laden with crazy parents, wouldn't you want to know?

If a club will arbitrarily and readily make coaching changes immediately after signing, 2 months into the season, 4 months into the season, wouldn't you want to know?

If a club refuses to move talent up so as not to hurt any parent's feelings, wouldn't you want to know?


As a consumer of services, why WOULDN'T you want to understand how the coach / club operates?  If your dd plays for top coach or on a top team for that club, or has considered doing so, wouldn't you want to understand the environment where you will be spending your money and your time?

I have seen a number of posts on the board about "caveat emptor" - know you coach and your club before signing a contract.  People who say "I don't worry about my coach as we have open communication."  What if it is outside the coach's control?  What if it is crazy parents?  What if it is a crazy club?

But as soon as the questions hit a little close to home, out come the posters to say "nothing to see here, move along."


What do you care? Your dd isn't good enough to play with go's dd anyway. Move along back to your rec team.
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Post by GrandTXSoccer on 07/10/14, 12:20 pm

If you have questions about coaches or clubs this is probably the last place a consumer should look Smile If you want to stir the pot and gossip this is definitely the place to come. My only thing was I didn't see why so many folks seemed to be pissed off that they don't know the story as to why he left. Heck I'd love to know but my level of curiosity doesn't rise to the level that I think I'm owed something.

Soccerchuck you bring up a ton of great questions but not one of them would be answered by posting on this board, or at least not at a level that I think anyone should take as gospel but ideally as the middle school gossip that most stuff is on msg boards.

In this particular situation, logic would indicate that there's probably something wrong with that particular team since it doesn't sound like LW is leaving either one of his other teams. However, if you truly are a consumer looking at joining one of his teams OR any team, the first place to start would probably be to email the coach and ask to attend one of his practices and then just ask him why he left and should it be something you should be worried about if you joined his team. Then while at practice talk to the parents on the team. That's what a smart consumer would do, what they would not do is come on this board looking for advice.


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Post by Guest on 07/10/14, 12:28 pm

soccer chuck wrote:Shouldn't parents have a right to know how clubs / teams / coaches operate?  

If a club continues to employ coaches that are suspended, wouldn't you want to know?  If the NTSSA has suspended your coach, wouldn't you want to know why?

If a coach walks away from a team, mid-season, wouldn't you want to know why?  They could be coaching (and leaving) your daughter in the future!

If a coach benches team players to play down CPP ringers to get the win, wouldn't you want to know which coaches are willing to do that?

If a team is laden with crazy parents, wouldn't you want to know?

If a club will arbitrarily and readily make coaching changes immediately after signing, 2 months into the season, 4 months into the season, wouldn't you want to know?

If a club refuses to move talent up so as not to hurt any parent's feelings, wouldn't you want to know?


As a consumer of services, why WOULDN'T you want to understand how the coach / club operates?  If your dd plays for top coach or on a top team for that club, or has considered doing so, wouldn't you want to understand the environment where you will be spending your money and your time?

I have seen a number of posts on the board about "caveat emptor" - know you coach and your club before signing a contract.  People who say "I don't worry about my coach as we have open communication."  What if it is outside the coach's control?  What if it is crazy parents?  What if it is a crazy club?

But as soon as the questions hit a little close to home, out come the posters to say "nothing to see here, move along."
All valid points...
Except all these questions are primarily for the truth so they can say "daaayyyyummm, I told ya..."

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Post by Coach&Ref on 07/10/14, 12:53 pm

You can always file a petition under the Freedom of Information Act! Very Happy

I seriously think that only signing 6mo contracts would alleviate quite a bit of these problems. If a parent wants to have the security of having a year long contract and the club is willing to offer it, then by all means. If a parent is not really sure if the situation is a good fit (might be offered the contract at the last minute before really knowing any of the parents, etc.), then they should be offered a 6mo deal with the option to extend if both the club and coach wants it.

I think this would force coaches to both take responsibility to more strictly adhere to their promises before signing, as well as finding out if the team is truly a good fit for the girl. If the girl was good enough, then she should have ZERO problem finding another team over the fall to spring break. If she isn't, then a one year contract would be in the parent's best interest. Teams filled with happy parents and girls should have no turnover, in theory. CPP shouldn't really be an issue either, since everyone should be sorted out on where they belong or are the happiest.

If anyone wants to bash on, "What about the loyalty to the club?" I'm betting there are more parents and girls that would benefit from the shorter or longer options that I'm proposing.

Just my thoughts.

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Post by Cmon_Man on 07/10/14, 01:00 pm

I have not seen anyone upset they don’t know the real story- not sure where that came from?

I agree with Soccer Chuck, it would be great if this site would focus more on helping the consumer with various issues, questions and concerns. However, I have given up that idealistic dream and understand this is just a gossip board. This is why the Elite parents have good reasons not to come on here and explain what really happened.

That said…..If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck…it’s almost always a duck.

We may not know what kind of duck, but I am sure that will become clear in the near future.
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Post by soccerchicken on 07/10/14, 01:07 pm

I am voting a mallard. Definitely not a swan, but maybe not even a duck at all - something along the lines of a dodo bird.
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Post by Guest on 07/10/14, 01:26 pm

Or quite possibly Chuck is being used for marketing purposes by Momma Bear.

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Post by go69 on 07/10/14, 01:56 pm

OK here's the real story. i was told if i did not quit posting on here that our old coach would leave. well i couldn't help myself and posted anyway. i am sorry to everyone involved. i obviously make very bad decisions.
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Post by GrandTXSoccer on 07/10/14, 02:33 pm

Maybe upset was the wrong word to use (although some did seem fairly upset when they'd hear a reason and it didn't jive with them), but clearly throughout this entire thread there were a ton of folks spreading rumors trying to get some sort of rise and confirmation because they desperately want to hear some gossip.

Personally I love the way people post on here like some great revelation will occur in the future and all will be clear as to why coaches left, like they personally secretly know something but just can't say it. Makes for great theater. The reality of the situation is if a coaches leaves a team but keeps all his other teams in the club he probably left because the parents are bat poop crazy and not worth the headache. If he leaves his teams and then shows up at a different club then he left to pursue more money (with the rare exception of being drunk on a trip or something like that). If he leaves his team and then his name shows up in a police blotter that one is pretty self explanatory, heck if his name shows up in the police blotter and doesn't lose his team that's actually more interesting. That's really all this board has become, it can be pretty fun.

In a rare moment I'm going to actually agree with C&R because personally I think committing to a year with a coach at such a young age is insane, heck you don't even commit to a year of school at one place so why is soccer so much more important than school?

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Post by Cmon_Man on 07/10/14, 03:54 pm

I agree 100% on decreasing the contract period, especially in the first couple of years of select when parents are still learning how it all works. IMO after the first couple of select years, a year contract is less of an issue- parents should be much better informed knowing what questions to ask and more importantly what issues to explore when selecting a coach/team.

That said- not sure how this would apply as much to the Elite situation. As I understand it most of that team has been together for a number of years and I doubt a coach with LW experience changed his stripes over night. So parents and coach should have had a very good understanding of what they were signing up for……….
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Post by go99 on 07/10/14, 04:49 pm

go69 wrote:OK here's the real story.  i was told if i did not quit posting on here that our old coach would leave.  well i couldn't help myself and posted anyway.  i am sorry to everyone involved.  i obviously make very bad decisions.

LOL now thats funny (nice touch to steal the avatar)

But you can look over the last page and see why there is no explination. Again, nobody wants it they just need it as a means to fuel an attack. Somebody ask a question and you answer? there goes the "you think you are the spokesman". If it's not the answer they had in they mind or the one they wanted to hear? Oh no thats not it because it doesn't satisfy my need for someone to be an awful person. You can ask LW personally and maybe (I doubt it) he will tell you. You could ask someone from the team and maybe they will tell you (doubt it because nobody from the team ever does) But other than that nobody actually knows the truth. But thanks all for proving my origional point a few pages ago. Nobody really cares they just want to attack the team. But hey keep at it, it fuels the 04 board and without it none of you guys have anything to talk about.
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Post by smellsliketeamspirit on 07/10/14, 06:52 pm

The Bottom Line is, You Have to Take the Good w/the Bad...You REAP What You SOW & it AIN'T Never No Fun when the Rabbit Got the Gun...

When You Literally Dedicate THOUSANDS of Messageboard Posts Towards Informing the Masses of How GREAT your DD's Team Is, Creating Nicknames for Opponents, OPENLY Dismissing their Chances of Beating your DD's Squad, Criticizing Opposing Coaches &/or MOCKING Other Organizational Coaching Changes, You Should EXPECT a Bit of Backlash, If/When the Shoe is Ever On the Other Foot...

The Problem Here is the WORDING...

Correct me If I'm Wrong, but I Don't Recall ANYBODY "Attacking the Team", in this Instance???...I Also Don't Recall ANYBODY Attacking LW, Either...Rase Is STILL the Best '04 Squad in My Opinion & they HAD the Best '04 Coach, Until Recently...

Sooooo, When the Consensus Best Team & the Consensus Best Coach Part Ways, it's NATURAL to Wonder Why, Right???...Doesn't Make you a Hater or Anything of the Sort...Given that NOBODY is Speaking Negatively about LW or the Players Themselves, WHO Does that Leave???...

If Any Sect is Being 'Attacked' Here, it's the Rase PARENTS...This Topic Consists of Posters, ie., Parents THEMSELVES, "Attacking" Other Parents...Nope, No One, Outside of Rase is "Entitled" to an Answer, but it's Only NATURAL to Wonder WHY What Happened Happened, Isn't It???...

Rase Talk has Been a PROMINENT Fixture on this Board for YEARS Now, Thanks to Some Dedicated Team Parents of Theirs, but All of a Sudden, when Things aren't Quite Going Rase's Way, it's "Attacking the Team" or "Fueling" Some Ulterior Motive, to WONDER Why???...

& NO ONE Should Think Rase's 1st Loss & Tie Since the JFK Administration has ANYTHING @ All to Do w/LW's Departure???...

Yeah, OK...

Cool

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Post by ElClassico on 07/10/14, 08:08 pm

Dude, those are some great points, I'm just not sure why every word has a capital letter in it? Are you almost yelling?
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Post by Cmon_Man on 07/10/14, 08:27 pm

smellsliketeamspirit wrote:When You Literally Dedicate THOUSANDS of Messageboard Posts Towards Informing the Masses of How GREAT your DD's Team Is, Creating Nicknames for Opponents, OPENLY Dismissing their Chances of Beating your DD's Squad, Criticizing Opposing Coaches &/or MOCKING Other Organizational Coaching Changes, You Should EXPECT a Bit of Backlash Cool

You forgot my personal favorite....throwing your dds backup under the bus on a public forum
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Post by Gunner9 on 07/10/14, 08:29 pm

Coach&Ref wrote:
I seriously think that only signing 6mo contracts would alleviate quite a bit of these problems.

Used to be that way. Unbelievable chaos mid-year.

Of course, that was pre-CPP and when being in LHGCL actually meant something. So now? Why not?

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Post by smellsliketeamspirit on 07/10/14, 10:14 pm

ElClassico wrote:Dude, those are some great points, I'm just not sure why every word has a capital letter in it? Are you almost yelling?
I Type LOUDLY...

Sorry...


lol!

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Post by go69 on 07/10/14, 10:18 pm

smellsliketeamspirit wrote:
ElClassico wrote:Dude, those are some great points, I'm just not sure why every word has a capital letter in it? Are you almost yelling?
I Type LOUDLY...

Sorry...


lol!


I'm sorry that your dd should play volleyball and your team sucks, not my problem. Focus on your team not ours.
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Post by go69 on 07/10/14, 10:29 pm

smellsliketeamspirit wrote:
ElClassico wrote:Dude, those are some great points, I'm just not sure why every word has a capital letter in it? Are you almost yelling?
I Type LOUDLY...

Sorry...


lol!

You type like a 10 year old that can't play soccer.
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Post by smellsliketeamspirit on 07/10/14, 10:44 pm

Go69???...

How 'Bout a '68 & I'll OWE You 1???...





Cool

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Post by smellsliketeamspirit on 07/10/14, 10:48 pm

go69 wrote:
smellsliketeamspirit wrote:
ElClassico wrote:Dude, those are some great points, I'm just not sure why every word has a capital letter in it? Are you almost yelling?
I Type LOUDLY...

Sorry...


lol!

You type like a 10 year old that can't play soccer.
I'm Not 10, but I Really DO Suck @ Soccer...

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Post by the7wolf on 08/10/14, 12:28 am

Here's an hypothesis:

DFW FC has two of the top teams in the age group coached by the same coach, MX.

In a couple of years time when ECNL becomes relevant as a carrot, with DFW FC not having an ECNL spot, they realize MX could be lured to an ECNL club and offered the opportunity to coach that age group. Having both of the top teams in that age group, DFW FC realize they need MX more than MX needs DFW FC. What to do... What to do... How about relieve MX of the top team and hand it to a solid company man who represents DFW FC worldwide and will never go anywhere. Use the excuse that a few parents weren't necessarily happy with results and had asked for releases to make the change, get the PR squad to say it was always in the works and voila, the perfect heist.

This is purely a theoretical example and any resemblance to actual persons or real events is purely coincidental.

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Post by Guest on 08/10/14, 06:48 am

Wolf man....sounds like (hypothetical of course) you know how DFW FC works and how mamma and daddy bear like to do things......said company man taking over 2 teams in a few months.

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Post by Guest on 08/10/14, 07:58 am

IT
the7wolf wrote:Here's an hypothesis:

DFW FC has two of the top teams in the age group coached by the same coach, MX.

In a couple of years time when ECNL becomes relevant as a carrot, with DFW FC not having an ECNL spot, they realize MX could be lured to an ECNL club and offered the opportunity to coach that age group. Having both of the top teams in that age group, DFW FC realize they need MX more than MX needs DFW FC. What to do... What to do... How about relieve MX of the top team and hand it to a solid company man who represents DFW FC worldwide and will never go anywhere. Use the excuse that a few parents weren't necessarily happy with results and had asked for releases to make the change, get the PR squad to say it was always in the works and voila, the perfect heist.

This is purely a theoretical example and any resemblance to actual persons or real events is purely coincidental.
Makes sense....
I mean, this is chess not checkers right?

"But it was the principle of the whole thing Smokie!! It's principalities in this..."

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Post by TatonkaBurger on 08/10/14, 08:08 am

the7wolf wrote:Here's an hypothesis:

DFW FC has two of the top teams in the age group coached by the same coach, MX.

In a couple of years time when ECNL becomes relevant as a carrot, with DFW FC not having an ECNL spot, they realize MX could be lured to an ECNL club and offered the opportunity to coach that age group. Having both of the top teams in that age group, DFW FC realize they need MX more than MX needs DFW FC. What to do... What to do... How about relieve MX of the top team and hand it to a solid company man who represents DFW FC worldwide and will never go anywhere. Use the excuse that a few parents weren't necessarily happy with results and had asked for releases to make the change, get the PR squad to say it was always in the works and voila, the perfect heist.

This is purely a theoretical example and any resemblance to actual persons or real events is purely coincidental.

Is that you Keyser Söze?
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