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Post by canaryman on 15/10/14, 09:51 am

Anyone want to take a stab at the DIII games this weekend?

The weather should be almost perfect this weekend.  Also, most D1 teams play the same day, so there shouldn't be any CPP action this weekend.

GSSC THUNDER v ETUFC  (3-1 GSSC THUNDER)
LP ST JOHN v D'FEETERS WHITE (1-2 D'FEETERS)
ANDROMEDA v LADY AZTECS (2-2 TIE)
DALLAS TEXANS WHITE v STING WEST (0-3 STING WEST)
SRFC v TX SPIRIT RED (2-0 SRFC)

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Post by DT03GWhiteNPL on 15/10/14, 04:11 pm

canaryman wrote:Anyone want to take a stab at the DIII games this weekend?

The weather should be almost perfect this weekend.  Also, most D1 teams play the same day, so there shouldn't be any CPP action this weekend.

GSSC THUNDER v ETUFC  (3-1 GSSC THUNDER)
LP ST JOHN v D'FEETERS WHITE (1-2 D'FEETERS)
ANDROMEDA v LADY AZTECS (2-2 TIE)
DALLAS TEXANS WHITE v STING WEST (0-3 STING WEST)
SRFC v TX SPIRIT RED (2-0 SRFC)

I doubt that's necessarily true. CPP can be used freely no matter what. Assuming no one will use CPP and maybe even swap a player or two isn't very open thinking. I believe it just means some D1 teams, if players are used in D3, will not be playing on both rosters that day.
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Post by DT03GWhiteNPL on 15/10/14, 04:29 pm

GSSC THUNDER v ETUFC (1-0 ETUFC)
LP ST JOHN v D'FEETERS WHITE (2-2 Tie)
ANDROMEDA v LADY AZTECS (1-2 Lady Aztecs)
DALLAS TEXANS WHITE v STING WEST (1-2 DTW)
SRFC v TX SPIRIT RED (1-2 TXSR)

I'm kinda for the underdogs here and the Ladies of Aztec are due for a win. DTW figures out how to stop that "one" super flash player while putting "over the top" pressure on Sting West's defense and TXSR has a defense, that on a good day, can stop just about anyone - defense will be on for this game. SRFC is a good team and will score regardless of good defense. Aztecs are a good team that has had problems finding the back of the net, I think they find it this weekend. D'Feeters are hot and cold, the cold winds blow and LP keeps pace. ETUFC is the hot hand for the weekend and shows everyone why they made LH, their physicality will win out. I think these scores will hold true regardless of CPP swaps.
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Post by soccernovice04 on 16/10/14, 08:31 am

GSSC THUNDER v ETUFC 2-1 GSSC
LP ST JOHN v D'FEETERS WHITE 1-3 DFEETERS
ANDROMEDA v LADY AZTECS 3-0 ANDROMEDA
DALLAS TEXANS WHITE v STING WEST 0-4 STING
SRFC v TX SPIRIT RED 3-0 SRFC

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Post by El Padrino on 16/10/14, 10:56 am

GSSC THUNDER v ETUFC (2-1 GSSC THUNDER)
LP ST JOHN v D'FEETERS WHITE (1-3 D'FEETERS)
ANDROMEDA v LADY AZTECS (3-1 Andromeda)
DALLAS TEXANS WHITE v STING WEST (0-4 STING WEST)
SRFC v TX SPIRIT RED (2-1 SRFC)

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Post by DT03GWhiteNPL on 18/10/14, 06:38 pm

Well going for the underdogs was clearly not the way to go this week... however, a surprise score between SRFC and TXSR with a tie 2-2. GSSC seems to have taken care of business by giving away nothing with a 3-0 win and Sting West absolutely put it to DTW with a sound thrashing. Anyone know the scores of the other two games? I fear I was a bit off on those as well... affraid
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Post by DT03GWhiteNPL on 21/10/14, 05:43 pm

I don't mean to be critical but figured I may as well toss this little nugget out there... did I hear (from a couple parents on each of these teams - I have no dog in the fight accept that I believe in CPP) that TX Spirit Red tied SRFC without using CPP? If I'm not mistaken, SRFC tied Sting West a week ago as well and was tied for first place with Sting West up until this weekend. Does that mean then that maybe the CPP that TX Spirit had used might not have had as big an impact as some folks on here put on it? Maybe even ended up in a tie had they NOT used the CPP? I know, I'm probably poking at a dead horse here but this is more about the use of CPP then it is about the actual teams that have or have not utilized it. The point is, seems these teams might be closer than some folks give them credit for and instead blame a little rule called CPP for their misfortunes... Since some of us believe in the CPP, regardless of how it's used, this is an example of where maybe, just maybe, it's use was overblown a bit overshadowing the good of it's use. I do like me some factual information. And in this case the facts do kinda speak for themselves. Shocked
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Post by canaryman on 21/10/14, 07:22 pm

Not one to make excuses...but since youre inquiring...SRFC had three girls out last weekend (injuries and personal reasons). Included starting GK, Midfielder (team goal scoring leader), and crucial defender. If we had CPP available, probably would have used it. The own goal we had in the first minute of the game didn't help either. Spirit played well too

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Post by DT03GWhiteNPL on 21/10/14, 07:28 pm

canaryman wrote:Not one to make excuses...but since youre inquiring...SRFC had three girls out last weekend (injuries and personal reasons).  Included starting GK, Midfielder (team goal scoring leader), and crucial defender.  If we had CPP available, probably would have used it.  The own goal we had in the first minute of the game didn't help either.  Spirit played well too

Didn't ya'll tie them in Qualifying as well?  Were you short those players then as well?  And I didn't inquire about injuries, sicknesses, etc...  Just stating a fact that being number one doesn't mean a team is the best team being fielded that day regardless of CPP.

OH, and CPP was available, just not for a club that doesn't have more than one 04 team - and that just may be the one shortcoming of the CPP ability. When it comes to the small clubs that don't have more than one team in the age group, however, it likely wouldn't have been a factor had you had more than one team in LH as they would have both been playing the same day.
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Post by canaryman on 21/10/14, 07:35 pm

Well, you inquired about how we tied them after just playing Sting to a tie the week before...so I told you some reasons that probably could have made a difference. Tx Spirit played well too...not taking anything away from them. I personally don't agree with CPP, but since it's perfectly well within the rules...i don't blame teams for using it either. DIII teams are closely matched, and anybody can win on any day...with or without CPP. I think coaches should try and win without using CPP, but I really could care less

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Post by DT03GWhiteNPL on 21/10/14, 07:44 pm

I guess to each their own - some hate it, others are neutral, others like it - I like it, regardless of the backlash I'll take for saying it...  I like that it causes teams that think they have an easy road to step up and have to play hard regardless of positioning in the divisional rankings.  Parents make a big deal out of it, kids play the game and really could care less about what players came from where when they're on the field of play.  The only reason a kid would know differently would be because the parent doesn't want their kid to feel like they lost to a lower ranked team.  So the excuses begin about CPP and it's use.  U11 - U13 is not an area that CPP should be handcuffed in my opinion.  Sure, go ahead and put more limitations on the teams U14 and above.  I know, some "parents" think it's all about the team you signed, etc., etc.  But as you so eloquently stated above, there will always be an excuse for losing - CPP, someone missing, I can't use CPP, they had the wind the second half.  You see, it's the parents that give two sharts about all this stuff, not the kids.  It's the parents and their wallets that put the spin on how this stuff is right or wrong.  Don't get me wrong, so do the coaches and clubs but it all starts with the ones that hold the wallet and that's the parents.  I like CPP and I like that it gets used when it's available - gives kiddos some variety to play at ALL levels...  little Suzy sitting on the D1 bench can get starting time on the D3 team because that D3 girl that stepped up her game has moved to the D1 team to try her luck.  I like it...  I like it a lot... Smile
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Post by canaryman on 21/10/14, 07:57 pm

Yes, D3 girl playing well and moving up to play D1?...im all for it. D1 player who doesn't see the field much and gets some extra PT in D3?...all for that too. But when Spirit moved 3 girls down from their D1 team to replace 2 spots against Sting West..I'm not for that at all. I'm also familiar with the girls they used to play against Sting West...and they are not sitting on the D1 bench. That's the problem with CPP. Like you said...all about the $$$. Be nice if coach used CPP for a D1 player who sits on the bench most the time in a D3 game, but the fact is that if a coach is going to use CPP, it's going to be a top player who can contribute to a win...cause parents want to win

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Post by Bobcat on 21/10/14, 07:57 pm

I wonder how many teams use CPP the correct way, which is for development, or for a team that can't field a team, which typically means to bring a player up from the same, or lower division team? You never hear about a DIII player, playing on a DI team. The reason? They would not be a difference maker. If you can't field a team, because of injuries, you should have signed more players. This is only an advantage for larger clubs.

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Post by kick_tha_ball on 21/10/14, 08:03 pm

D3 coach is pressured to win so he borrows 2-3 girls from D1 team. What does he tell the 2-3 girls and their parents that have to sit out that week, "We'll need you at some point, your still an important part of this team". Don't worry about their feelings.
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Post by DT03GWhiteNPL on 21/10/14, 08:54 pm

So it sounds to me like everyone is assuming the girls that didn't play in the DIII game didn't play at all and had to sit... it's my understanding those girls played up into the DI team so they didn't miss any playing time... They were starters on the DIII team so they were replaced with starters from the DI team, but like I always say, you can know one person from one team and hear things the way they see 'em then you can talk to others that are on the outside and hear the way they see things...  it always seems to be two completely different stories...  it's my understanding that no one lost playing time they merely played up while other played down.  I can't confirm this as I was not there but talking to folks it's funny how you get two completely different perspectives especially when you talk to those who weren't even involved in the game itself... It seems like everyone always knows more about what's going on then what's ACTUALLY going on... but I do like this debate to see who really knows what they are talking about instead of insinuating what they believe to be true.
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Post by DT03GWhiteNPL on 21/10/14, 09:05 pm

I'll say it again, regardless of how a team uses the CPP, at this age group, I like that it exists and I like how it can be used. Lots of playing opportunities for these kids at this age and so many different opportunities regardless of how well we think a kid can play or not... don't like CPP? step up your game so it doesn't matter how it's used. Like CPP but can't use it? Choose a different club that CAN use it. Could care less? Don't post about it... I support CPP as it exists today for U11-U13 at least... I think U14 might be a little different but I'll cross that bridge when we get there...
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Post by kick_tha_ball on 21/10/14, 09:14 pm

HeadHaunter wrote:So it sounds to me like everyone is assuming the girls that didn't play in the DIII game didn't play at all and had to sit... it's my understanding those girls played up into the DI team so they didn't miss any playing time...  They were starters on the DIII team so they were replaced with starters from the DI team, but like I always say, you can know one person from one team and hear things the way they see 'em then you can talk to others that are on the outside and hear the way they see things...  it always seems to be two completely different stories...  it's my understanding that no one lost playing time they merely played up while other played down.  I can't confirm this as I was not there but talking to folks it's funny how you get two completely different perspectives especially when you talk to those who weren't even involved in the game itself...  It seems like everyone always knows more about what's going on then what's ACTUALLY going on...  but I do like this debate to see who really knows what they are talking about instead of insinuating what they believe to be true.

Sounds like your describing yourself when talking about those "In. The Know". And we all know this little scenario about how CUP was used didn't go down the way you say it did. If you signed 14-16 girls, go play with those girls. Let the chips fall where the may.
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Post by DT03GWhiteNPL on 21/10/14, 09:18 pm

kick_tha_ball wrote:
HeadHaunter wrote:So it sounds to me like everyone is assuming the girls that didn't play in the DIII game didn't play at all and had to sit... it's my understanding those girls played up into the DI team so they didn't miss any playing time...  They were starters on the DIII team so they were replaced with starters from the DI team, but like I always say, you can know one person from one team and hear things the way they see 'em then you can talk to others that are on the outside and hear the way they see things...  it always seems to be two completely different stories...  it's my understanding that no one lost playing time they merely played up while other played down.  I can't confirm this as I was not there but talking to folks it's funny how you get two completely different perspectives especially when you talk to those who weren't even involved in the game itself...  It seems like everyone always knows more about what's going on then what's ACTUALLY going on...  but I do like this debate to see who really knows what they are talking about instead of insinuating what they believe to be true.

Sounds like your describing yourself when talking about those "In. The Know". And we all know this little scenario about how CUP was used didn't go down the way you say it did. If you signed 14-16 girls, go play with those girls. Let the chips fall where the may.

So you must be a TX Spirit parent? Just curious that you are "in the know" better than the parent I spoke with... again, I enjoy the dubious debates of hearsay and speculation around what "actually" happened... I am not standing up for TX Spirit as much as I am standing up for CPP "regardless" of it's use. Parents put the stigma on it cause they don't like to lose and feel "cheated"... the kids could care less unless a parent opens their yap about it...
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Post by kick_tha_ball on 21/10/14, 09:27 pm

HeadHaunter wrote:
kick_tha_ball wrote:
HeadHaunter wrote:So it sounds to me like everyone is assuming the girls that didn't play in the DIII game didn't play at all and had to sit... it's my understanding those girls played up into the DI team so they didn't miss any playing time...  They were starters on the DIII team so they were replaced with starters from the DI team, but like I always say, you can know one person from one team and hear things the way they see 'em then you can talk to others that are on the outside and hear the way they see things...  it always seems to be two completely different stories...  it's my understanding that no one lost playing time they merely played up while other played down.  I can't confirm this as I was not there but talking to folks it's funny how you get two completely different perspectives especially when you talk to those who weren't even involved in the game itself...  It seems like everyone always knows more about what's going on then what's ACTUALLY going on...  but I do like this debate to see who really knows what they are talking about instead of insinuating what they believe to be true.

Sounds like your describing yourself when talking about those "In. The Know". And we all know this little scenario about how CUP was used didn't go down the way you say it did. If you signed 14-16 girls, go play with those girls. Let the chips fall where the may.

So you must be a TX Spirit parent?  Just curious that you are "in the know" better than the parent I spoke with...  again, I enjoy the dubious debates of hearsay and speculation around what "actually" happened...  I am not standing up for TX Spirit as much as I am standing up for CPP "regardless" of it's use.  Parents put the stigma on it cause they don't like to lose and feel "cheated"...  the kids could care less unless a parent opens their yap about it...

So your saying that Little Suzie doesn't care that Little Sally comes over and takes her playing time because Little Sally didn't get to play with her own team. I know my Little Suzie wouldn't be too happy with that and I wouldn't even have to say anything to her. And no I am not a Spirit parent.
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Post by DT03GWhiteNPL on 21/10/14, 09:40 pm

kick_tha_ball wrote:
HeadHaunter wrote:
kick_tha_ball wrote:
HeadHaunter wrote:So it sounds to me like everyone is assuming the girls that didn't play in the DIII game didn't play at all and had to sit... it's my understanding those girls played up into the DI team so they didn't miss any playing time...  They were starters on the DIII team so they were replaced with starters from the DI team, but like I always say, you can know one person from one team and hear things the way they see 'em then you can talk to others that are on the outside and hear the way they see things...  it always seems to be two completely different stories...  it's my understanding that no one lost playing time they merely played up while other played down.  I can't confirm this as I was not there but talking to folks it's funny how you get two completely different perspectives especially when you talk to those who weren't even involved in the game itself...  It seems like everyone always knows more about what's going on then what's ACTUALLY going on...  but I do like this debate to see who really knows what they are talking about instead of insinuating what they believe to be true.

Sounds like your describing yourself when talking about those "In. The Know". And we all know this little scenario about how CUP was used didn't go down the way you say it did. If you signed 14-16 girls, go play with those girls. Let the chips fall where the may.

So you must be a TX Spirit parent?  Just curious that you are "in the know" better than the parent I spoke with...  again, I enjoy the dubious debates of hearsay and speculation around what "actually" happened...  I am not standing up for TX Spirit as much as I am standing up for CPP "regardless" of it's use.  Parents put the stigma on it cause they don't like to lose and feel "cheated"...  the kids could care less unless a parent opens their yap about it...

So your saying that Little Suzie doesn't care that Little Sally comes over and takes her playing time because Little Sally didn't get to play with her own team. I know my Little Suzie wouldn't be too happy with that and I wouldn't even have to say anything to her. And no I am not a Spirit parent.

I can't speculate on the agreement that went on between coach, player and parent for TXS but I would assume that conversation was had by all parties - there I go now, making assumptions. Based on my conversations it was something that was agreed upon by all parties but then again, I am looking in from the outside, just like you and taking what I'm told with a grain of salt. However, in my kiddos case, when she plays CPP, it's an even playing time swap from DIII to DI or vice versa so in my opinion, it's a great playing opportunity and I like the way it works all the way around... making not so competitive games competitive, giving players a different level of play, letting players play with kids they don't normally play with and having to adapt to that environment, getting a good look at other teams within the club at that age group, so many good things that it brings in my honest opinion.
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Post by DT03GWhiteNPL on 21/10/14, 09:46 pm

I also forgot to mention how cool it is that PPL DI players can play up to LH DIII or all the way up to LH DI...  so many cool opportunities for kiddos to play.  I just don't see the downside accept that parents get all pissy about it...  I know my kiddo will take the opportunity to play up a level or three instead of playing on her own team when given that opportunity... again, I think once you get to U14 thoughts begin to change around CPP and it's use.
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Post by DT03GWhiteNPL on 21/10/14, 09:59 pm

Bobcat wrote:I wonder how many teams use CPP the correct way, which is for development, or for a team that can't field a team, which typically means to bring a player up from the same, or lower division team?  You never hear about a DIII player, playing on a DI team.  The reason?  They would not be a difference maker.  If you can't field a team, because of injuries, you should have signed more players.  This is only an advantage for larger clubs.

Really? You must not talk to the right people... my DD plays up to DI from DIII when the teams don't have a conflict, i.e. play on the same day. I know a couple other clubs that have done the same... so you may not be in the right circles or something. Maybe you're not in the soccer "circle of trust"... ;-) I also know that some U12's play up on U13's as well when there's a roster spot for em... so it happens way more than I think you realize...
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Post by Bobcat on 21/10/14, 10:10 pm

I think you make up way more than you "know". Everyone knows who the CPP players are, and why they are playing, and playing time. Your DD might be different than most, but you are definitely in the minority on your thoughts of how CPP is used.

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Post by DT03GWhiteNPL on 21/10/14, 10:26 pm

Bobcat wrote:I think you make up way more than you "know".  Everyone knows who the CPP players are, and why they are playing, and playing time.  Your DD might be different than most, but you are definitely in the minority on your thoughts of how CPP is used.

The minority appears to be only those that actually post on this forum cause most of the folks I've talked to have no problem with it or don't care either way... the ones that seem pissed about it's use are the small clubs that can't use it or the clubs where the coach refuses to use it stating exactly what I keep seeing posted on this forum - you sign X amount of players and that's who you should play - really? That's narrow minded thinking on growth of ALL players big and small. If you can use it, use it in either direction. If your club doesn't use it in both directions then you probably need a new club. If your club can't use it and you love the idea of it, then you need a new club. If you could care less, then you're right where you need to be. I still think the love/hate relationship with the CPP is all about the parents. Moreover, the parents, coaches and clubs. If you don't like it cause you don't think your coach is utilizing it to its full capabilities, then talk to the coach about your concerns. If he gives you the ol' play with who you signed B.S. then it's possible he doesn't have a good relationship with other coaches within the club where they can swap players. It can be as much a negative for teams that don't play nice within their own clubs as it is a positive for teams that have great relationships within the club. It all depends on your club and definitely about your coach as to whether you're team is taking advantage of the CPP or not - regardless of HOW it's used within the club. Just the opportunity to actually use it. I can say not all big clubs are utilizing it and certainly not the majority of larger clubs. TXS and D'Feeters (formerly LFS) are small clubs compared to Dallas Texans, Liverpool, FC Dallas or Sting when you take into consideration the number of 04 teams. However, only Liverpool, D'Feeters and TXS has two teams under one coach in the 04s (well LP just nixed that as well but they did have two teams under one coach). This makes it easier to utilize players between teams whereas the other teams have to "play nice" within the club to utilize such players across teams - that just doesn't happen and those kids are being shorted the learning opportunity in my opinion. But you can't tell all parents that cause they are just too damn competitive with U11 - U13 soccer when it should be about just getting better from a "player" perspective. I don't expect the CPP haters to understand my perspective, and that's fine, maybe I am in the minority but I'm definitely OK with that if my kiddo is getting what she needs from it.
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Post by Guest on 21/10/14, 10:36 pm

kick_tha_ball wrote:D3 coach is pressured to win so he borrows 2-3 girls from D1 team. What does he tell the 2-3 girls and their parents that have to sit out that week, "We'll need you at some point, your still an important part of this team". Don't worry about their feelings.
What does he tell the girls and their parents, "Thank you for your payment".

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